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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]


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3 hours ago, Freezing-Dragon said:

U23 might be about Khora Lore.

Umbra might be in U24.

But am gonna be honest but. Having a.. ghost mum in optional quest feels weird...

Khora whose supposedly need 2 bee on this 22.8 update so she is just on next 1 like 22.9. And the next big update is 23 with corpus open world or next cinematic quest and for that we can wait for months and that's it.

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To be honest, my hype for this has fizzled out. They just need to get the thing out of the way so they can move on. If they don't, and keep pushing it back in favor of other, smaller things, it'll just loom over and detract from anything they release.

Like the Sentient Super weapon.

Or the alchemy system.

Or the VIP assassinations.

Or IPS changes.

Or...

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5 hours ago, Freezing-Dragon said:

U23 might be about Khora Lore.

Umbra might be in U24.

But am gonna be honest but. Having a.. ghost mum in optional quest feels weird...

After an update the size of PoE, I don't think that Khora + damage 2.5 are all what U23 will be bringing. Hopefully the sacrifice is in it, either as the main attraction or as a pleasant surprise after doing something.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

but then again rells harrow quest also was optional 

Yet it's still necessary to play the apostasy prologue, which seems to set the grounds for the sacrifice quest.

Edited by Stormdragon
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I am not writing this in some form of demented belief that DE will read it and go "AH-HA! THIS! This is the greatest idea EVER! Dispose of all we've done so far, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR!". Nor am I writing this in search of acolades and 'good jobs' etc. I write this because, well, I wanna take this off my head -ideas feel lonely in there.

So, the thing is, we've heard about Excal Umbra for so long, we've all pined after him going goo-goo-ga-ga every time any sign of existence is given. Which is cool -I love the aesthetics and poor Excal needs a bit of appearence reworking. Also a new quest, and LORE! YAY! LORE!

But, the realist in me says (after watching a youtuber), wha would a series of Umbra frames MEAN? Are they going to be equal to normal frames? Then why get them? Are they going to be equal to Primes? But that gets rid of the whole point of Primes and vaulting. Are they going to be SUPERIOR to Primes? Then why would you even go get a prime in the first place? So the answer would be... they have to be different.

And I'm not talking 'this is a sidegrade' where, for example Primes have more energy while Umbras have more Health. No. That's a TERRIBLE idea. Because some frames will always be better if they have more energy and others will always be better if they have more Health.

Another youtuber had it right; they must have different abilities. Umbra Excalibur must still be an Excalibur, and identified as such, but have a different kit. I mean, did any of you think that all the Warframes we've gotten so far, there has never been discussion about what abilities they should have? How their kit COULD have been? Abilities that they had ideas for but didn't implement because they'd either be too powerful, too weak, or at the time didn't have the programming for (or did you think it accidental that it's only now that we get frames with abilities that switch their effects, switch the frame or have powers that feed off equipment? DE might have had the idea of Exalted Blade for YEARS before they got the tech to actually create that power, leaving us with Radiant Javelin and Super Jump for those of us old enough to remember those days).

An Umbra Ember should still be an EMBER first and foremost. That is; setting things on FIRE. But, how she goes about that? Ah, now THIS can change. Maybe she has a channeled flamethrower or instead of covering enemies with accelerant she wraps herself in helfire and goes in melee. Who knows? DE must have had ideas for powers they never implemented. Ideas locked up away for whatever reason. Ideas that they can now bring out.

Hell, I'll even give an example using our good old boy Excalibur. Excal has Slash Dash, Radial Blind, Radial Javelin and Exalted Blade.

So, how can we change them? Well, Slash Dash can remain mostly the same. Imagine Excal dashing forward in a straight line, seemingly teleporting. Then all the enemies behind them get dealt damage. Seen, oh, just about ANY anime with swordfighting? The whole 'blink and he's behind you and OMAE WA MO SHINDEIRU'? This. Same principle, different execution. Radial Blind -turn it around, instead of blinding the enemy, give Umbra Excal a bit of an 'oh HELL NO' button and let him go invisible for 5 seconds -enough to get the hell out of dodge, but not run an entire Spy mission. Radial Javelin. It stabs everything, staggering them. Alright -so why not make swords rain from above, pinning enemies to the ground for some nice Ground Finishers? Finally Exalted Blade. The skill that made Excal into a freaking turret. Remove the sword beam, increase the base reach of the sword (Galatine or maybe even longer) and let Charge Attacks move you in whatever direction you're aiming to deal your damage there -if you've ever used Valkyr's Hysterical Assault or the Rift Strike mod for the Twin Basolk, you know what I'm talking about. Anyone seeing it would still go "yeah, it's an Excal alright, still obsessed with swords", but at the same time, it would be a different VERSION of Excal. A road not taken, I suppose.

Anyway, I got this off my brain, do with it as you will.

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While I agree that they should something like this with the other Umbras (Assuming we get more Umbras) to differentiate them from the Primes. They likely wouldn't do this with Excalibur since he's the only Warframe that doesn't have a separate variant you can farm for or get at this very moment.

Edited by Rybbit
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I know someone somewhere on Reddit claimed that some DE staff somewhere at some point (Like, literally no solid evidence behind any of this stuff) claimed that they had said "Oh, yeah no. Excal Umbra is just a skin for your Frame", and reddit has been obsessed with that notion ever since.

 

Meanwhile, I'm still hoping that it is, in fact, a brand new Warframe that's Excal, but "Different", and that there's also perhaps a "Light" version, and that they've also done all three Starter Frames as well.

 

I mean, DE pretending that we practically know everything about Excalibur Umbra, and that there's no big surprise? Really? We know DE, and how they can drop things on us without any Spoiler Warning ("Hey Kiddo", "Mom?", "Plains of Eidolon!!!"), so this whole thing seems a liiiiiittle suspicious. XD

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13 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I know someone somewhere on Reddit claimed that some DE staff somewhere at some point (Like, literally no solid evidence behind any of this stuff) claimed that they had said "Oh, yeah no. Excal Umbra is just a skin for your Frame", and reddit has been obsessed with that notion ever since.

 

Meanwhile, I'm still hoping that it is, in fact, a brand new Warframe that's Excal, but "Different", and that there's also perhaps a "Light" version, and that they've also done all three Starter Frames as well.

 

I mean, DE pretending that we practically know everything about Excalibur Umbra, and that there's no big surprise? Really? We know DE, and how they can drop things on us without any Spoiler Warning ("Hey Kiddo", "Mom?", "Plains of Eidolon!!!"), so this whole thing seems a liiiiiittle suspicious. XD

But also knowing DE, Excal Umbra could just be Excalibur with a shiny coat of paint that we get through a supposed lore-heavy quest. I've seen what DE has done enough to know that expecting anything leads to massive disappointments.

I wouldn't hold my breath for them deciding to completely change up the kit for Excalibur Umbra or any other potential future Umbra. One thing I've noticed with the community is the moment that there's some supremely minor notion, whether it's officially from DE or not, we hype it up so much that once it's released we find it doesn't meet any of the expectations and we end up hating it.

So for now, and I'd suggest this to anyone else reading this: Just assume Excalibur Umbra is a run-of-the-mill variant that probably does something slightly different like a Prime's energy regen. Because I know that if people get too hype off of this post, which is basically just theorizing and speculation, we're going to see a ton of posts on the forums saying how Excalibur Umbra is very disappointing or outright garbage once he's finally released.

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8 minutes ago, Rybbit said:

But also knowing DE, Excal Umbra could just be Excalibur with a shiny coat of paint that we get through a supposed lore-heavy quest. I've seen what DE has done enough to know that expecting anything leads to massive disappointments.

There is nothing to have pointed to Excal Umbra being anything different than a tweaked Excal. The community has invented or misconstrued what has been said about it.

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58 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

There is nothing to have pointed to Excal Umbra being anything different than a tweaked Excal. The community has invented or misconstrued what has been said about it.

Exactly, but that's not going to stop people from grasping at straws. I thought Excal Umbra would've just been a slightly tweaked Excal too until this post brought up the possibility. Though DE has also been pretty hush-hush about this ever since they teased it, so they could do what's been mentioned here, however small a chance it might be, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

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Hi everyone, 

It's already 2018 that means we are getting close to umbra and the sacrifice update, So these are my thoughts for the umbra warframes:

-The umbras should not be a different warframe it should be like a slider/switch that you can toggle ONLY with prime warframes when you acquire the umbra version, So you can't use umbra unless you have the prime version, with the only exception to this is excalibur umbra, So they can keep releasing prime access and with every prime released the umbra version will also be released but only obtainable in-game (you should farm for it).

-To craft umbra warframe, it should require neuroptics, systems and chassis like the normal and prime versions, But these will be hard to farm, and i can see helminth playing a big part of acquiring umbra.

-Umbra should have 5th ability (Umbra Ultimate Ability) That they can fuse with the operator to make one form (because i think that umbra will have it's own mind and they can still fight when you go into operator mode).

ex. Excalibur umbra's 5th ability will make him turn into a glowing ninja and gains 25% increase in size (much like eximus enemies) and 1000+ health and shields wielding big exalted blade that deals void damage with new stance, Drains both operator energy and warframe energy and stays for a set amount of time (That's only an example, the main idea is that it may have a 5th ability).

-Now DE should make a new passive/different 5th ability for the prime frames so that people switch between the two forms otherwise they will only use umbra.

-I hope that we can see combos between the operator and the umbra.

Feel free to post any ideas or thoughts, Nobody knows what's in DE's mind, Time will tell but we have to be patient.

Edited by (PS4)X-x-X_8_O-o-O
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1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Why are you overhyping yourselves so much? Umbra is most likely just a replacement for prime. You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Heck, anything new for FashionFrame and MR Ranking is always welcome by the community. Even the Cycron has its place in both aspects. XD

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2 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Heck, anything new for FashionFrame and MR Ranking is always welcome by the community. Even the Cycron has its place in both aspects. XD

Yea i know and thats fine but there are so many threads popping up with god knows what theories. People are over hyping it for no reason. This will be most likely just Excal Prime for pleb and nothing more. Than when they release it we will have even more threads about how disappointed they all are.

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15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BigLithuanian said:

I'm gonna pissed if they give up Prime

I dont think they gonna give up on prime variants, but i see excal umbra as the replacement of his prime variant, but being obtainable via a quest. DE said that they want to make umbra more like a new system than a simple addition but we dont know much more than that. My especulation is that since umbra seems to require some sort of sacrifice it can be an alternate/corrupt version of a frame (or prime variant), meaning that the warframe will be better in some ways but worse on anothers (power through sacrifice). The only other hint we have is that it may have something to do with the choices we made during certain quests and the alignment we got from those (DE also said that we will be able to move the alignment on some way down the line).

As for now, and with the lack of details the only thing we can assume for sure is that: only excal will have an umbra variant (at least at the start) and that it will come with a quest

Edited by GordoFreeman
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No one is going to be sacrificing Warframes because there is no mechanism for removing MR, also the first Umbra is Excalibur, and Excalibur Prime isn't coming back and DE aren't going to create a quest and new type of Warframe just for everyone who isn't a founder to be excluded.

Finally, Excalibur Umbra is already confirmed to be a new, standalone Warframe, not a skin, or an alternate anything, just a new type, like a Prime.

The more nonsense you come up with the more likely you are to be disappointed. Think about what is accessible to all the playerbase, that isn't going to make a recently worked-on mechanic redundant (Operators). Think about Prime access! Would DE want to make a new type of Warframe that would make everyone think twice about buying a Prime because they want the Umbra instead, are they going to make Excalibur Umbra notably better that "Excalibur Umbra Prime" that Chinaframe has?

No, none of those things are likely.

 

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well,

i know well after five years of playing this game that its is imperative that we accept that things will undoubtedly change in this game, be it the direction of lore or the stats of gear or the abilities of warframes 

 

but

 

if we peel back the skin of the last year or more, back when certain things were datamined and spoiled when nothing was yet set in stone (and perhaps the game was better for it, considering the drastic changes and improvements that came to the game as a result of having to scrap version 1.0), the leaked script to the war within held some spoilers that at this point, are most likely irrelevant but

back then, according to that old spoiled sheet of information, umbra was defined in a comment from teshin to the tenno as 'a frame with no operator'

This is (i now realize) hilariously adorbs, because

when you look at umbra it looks like an updated version of excalibur prime and in my feeble master-founder mindset, OF COURSE i see umbra as a way to both pacify the whiners and milk the current content for more than its worth while at the same time possibly developing the story arc and enriching the universe by adding some 'wacky' alternative to an existing release,

 

for the sake of de's right to surprise us and giving their creative director and his minions the benefit of the doubt, lets assume that all of that leaked stuff from yester-year is completely changed and different now. and that umbra may very well have nothing to do with operator-less frames. ok, now, lets with that mind set still examine the idea of umbra being the answer to the 'me waan eksal prym plox' epidemic that even to this day finds its way onto the forums or into the game's chat tabs. 

excal prime, and the frame with no operators... thats sorta the same thing when you think about it from the perspective of players who dont have excal prime. he is the frame with no 'new' operators since nov of 2013. and, he will come gilded af decked out with all that snazzy gold trim. and a scarf. psh. anyhow, its a perfectly valid option for them to simply make excal prime 2.0 without calling it that, that has an up to date look, that everyone including founders can access. theyre just going to put a bunch of sparkles on it in quest form so that its not just a 'new prime' and smear lore on it so that it smells different, which is fine with me. and if we are lucky maybe they will give it some quirk in the form of different powers, or same powers but that work differently, or even something not related to ability use, like the less health it has the more power strength and efficiency or something who knows. 

 

now, umbra aside, if we think about 'frames with no operators' we can acknowledge two things

a) there are players who hate the teenos, and would rather not have an operator at all than to have one that isnt a fully developed *cough* adult.

and

b) that there are already several moments in the game where the warframes 'seem' to display some form of sentience through acts of their own volition (or they can at the very least be interpereted as that) and we see that in 

1. the second dream: when your warframe breaks the sword, causing hunhow to exclaim 'NANI!!???' in disbelief (that it acted on its own, or maybe just that he was defeated and im looking too far into it)

2. the silver grove: when titania (whos operator at the time as far as we know was sylvana, who had been transferred into the grove and was no longer doing time limited [and albeit extremely hard on her physical and mental well being] transferrence runs using titania) saves sylvana from being burned to a crisp by the grineer

     ** sidenote : i joked back in 2016, july ( https://forums.warframe.com/topic/680557-spolierino-lotus-x-margulis-stalker-x-ballas/ ) in a single post that natah body snatched margulis (whoa, am i the prophet of profit?) (on the money?) and (probably totally wrong) that the stalker was controlled by ballas. i then had a discussion recently, having gone and reread my archived post, about how i forsaw the future but also that i was probably terribly off the mark with the whole stalker-ballas thing. BUT after typing this, i realize that if sylvana could transfer into titania even if only for a short time despite not being a 'tenno' (kid from the zariman, void radiated, potentially also in a symbiotic relationship with the technocyte virus {they say we are immune to it, but how would they know if they didnt try to infect us:? and if they did, did the tcyte die or is it living within side by side??} ) then it IS quite possible that somehow ballas can also do this. 

Stalker blames us for some things. wants to bring down the hammer of justice on us for acting above and beyond the law, taking matters into our own hands. Ballas also blamed us for some things. namely, blaming the ultimate murdaaaaa of his loved one (margulis) on the simple existence of the tenno (bcuz she worked with us and defied the council of the 7 and got zippy-zap fried on the judgement disc). 

SO this all comes together here

what if stalker IS controlled by ballas, but rebels against him of its own accord and sacrifices itself in order to save/protect the tenno and is *cough* ''reborn'' < notice quotation marks implying that i dont know a better word to use at the moment > as umbra excal, and thus the spell is broken and natah/lotus and the tweeno are able to resume their familial relationship and continue on their conquest for galactic domination.. i mean.. save the sol system. 

 

** other side note. i also used to say this, which is super duper far fetched and totally not ever probably likely to happen and literally cant happen because we saw ballas, but it was a fun thought so ill leave it here :

i used to say that ballas and margulis were a thing and margulis got pregnant just before being assigned somewhere away from ballas. she never told ballas about the kid because she didnt think he would make a great father and didnt want the kid to get twisted up into whatever drama would come of an executor of the seven impregnating a lowly archimedian or whatever title / rank margulis was. so, she kept it secret and had the kid and began to raise the child on her own. as good as she was from keeping secrets, word got out that she had a kid and the orokin leadership didnt like anyone to have anything of their own, so this child ends up being put into the care of the 'state' and is put into military training and as fate would have it ends up on the zariman ten-zero and becomes a tenno.

margulis begins the work of developing the synaptic relay and through working with her own child develops a motherly connection to the rest of the children. margulis ends up defying the seven, and gets zapped, after which davis and his team develop transferrence (post rhino prime codex) which is ultimately taken over by ballas.

 the young tenno becomes a prominant warrior having mastered the art of transferrence and using a warframe, winning battles for the council and as such receives the highest marks. in a a sour twist of destiny the young operator dies and as is customary of a society in which holds warriors in such high regard and who has an affinity for ceremony and rites, ballas makes it a point to visit the corpse of one of his finest soldiers. upon seeing the body, either through some trinket passed down from margulis to the child or perhaps some outstanding physical resemblence, ballas realizes that this was in fact his son/daughter.

at this point he is filled with such rage and hatred for the orokin, for himself, and for the other tenno who should have been there to either die in place or to prevent this ones end, he vows to destroy the remnants of the zariman ten zero: the tenno. so, in order to level the playing field and perhaps to gain the long and creepy upperhand, he does the unthinkable. He infects himself with technocyte. He enters into the void unprotected. And he downs some of that good ol' cephalon-sizzurp. Now we have an infested void radiated cephalon ballas. He then uploads infested cephalon ballas DLC into excaliber prime and in a fit of rage Rips off the Golden Faceplate / Helmet decoration, mutilating his helmet and scarring his ''face?'' and proceeds to track down tenno and their warframes for the sins they commit in the name of justice.

now, most of that i guess could still apply excluding infested ballas the cephalon DLC upload into excal prime and the whole self mutilation bit.. BUT what if he really is controlling the stalker? what if the stalker does end up sacrificing itself to save us and becomes umbra that way. you know how gandalf the grey becomes gandalf the white post balrog?

yeah i went there. 

Edited by PookieNumnums
i didnt mean to type that much so i put some of it in spoiler tag, but im at work waiting for stuff to print so i can leave... so meh. this is what ya get forum-peeps
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46 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

No one is going to be sacrificing Warframes because there is no mechanism for removing MR, also the first Umbra is Excalibur, and Excalibur Prime isn't coming back and DE aren't going to create a quest and new type of Warframe just for everyone who isn't a founder to be excluded.

Finally, Excalibur Umbra is already confirmed to be a new, standalone Warframe, not a skin, or an alternate anything, just a new type, like a Prime.

The more nonsense you come up with the more likely you are to be disappointed. Think about what is accessible to all the playerbase, that isn't going to make a recently worked-on mechanic redundant (Operators). Think about Prime access! Would DE want to make a new type of Warframe that would make everyone think twice about buying a Prime because they want the Umbra instead, are they going to make Excalibur Umbra notably better that "Excalibur Umbra Prime" that Chinaframe has?

No, none of those things are likely.

 

if you can sell a ranked frame you can sacrifice one.

what if you have to use a rank 30 frame to do the quest, same as in order to do sorties hm???? 

also, one frame with no operator doesnt mean all frames become umbra. so that could if we arent sacrificing our operators (which i totally dont think we are) still be sacrificing use of our operators (i.e. focus and such) while using that particular frame.

:P

Edited by PookieNumnums
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