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Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

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well,

i know well after five years of playing this game that its is imperative that we accept that things will undoubtedly change in this game, be it the direction of lore or the stats of gear or the abilities of warframes 

 

but

 

if we peel back the skin of the last year or more, back when certain things were datamined and spoiled when nothing was yet set in stone (and perhaps the game was better for it, considering the drastic changes and improvements that came to the game as a result of having to scrap version 1.0), the leaked script to the war within held some spoilers that at this point, are most likely irrelevant but

back then, according to that old spoiled sheet of information, umbra was defined in a comment from teshin to the tenno as 'a frame with no operator'

This is (i now realize) hilariously adorbs, because

when you look at umbra it looks like an updated version of excalibur prime and in my feeble master-founder mindset, OF COURSE i see umbra as a way to both pacify the whiners and milk the current content for more than its worth while at the same time possibly developing the story arc and enriching the universe by adding some 'wacky' alternative to an existing release,

 

for the sake of de's right to surprise us and giving their creative director and his minions the benefit of the doubt, lets assume that all of that leaked stuff from yester-year is completely changed and different now. and that umbra may very well have nothing to do with operator-less frames. ok, now, lets with that mind set still examine the idea of umbra being the answer to the 'me waan eksal prym plox' epidemic that even to this day finds its way onto the forums or into the game's chat tabs. 

excal prime, and the frame with no operators... thats sorta the same thing when you think about it from the perspective of players who dont have excal prime. he is the frame with no 'new' operators since nov of 2013. and, he will come gilded af decked out with all that snazzy gold trim. and a scarf. psh. anyhow, its a perfectly valid option for them to simply make excal prime 2.0 without calling it that, that has an up to date look, that everyone including founders can access. theyre just going to put a bunch of sparkles on it in quest form so that its not just a 'new prime' and smear lore on it so that it smells different, which is fine with me. and if we are lucky maybe they will give it some quirk in the form of different powers, or same powers but that work differently, or even something not related to ability use, like the less health it has the more power strength and efficiency or something who knows. 

 

now, umbra aside, if we think about 'frames with no operators' we can acknowledge two things

a) there are players who hate the teenos, and would rather not have an operator at all than to have one that isnt a fully developed *cough* adult.

and

b) that there are already several moments in the game where the warframes 'seem' to display some form of sentience through acts of their own volition (or they can at the very least be interpereted as that) and we see that in 

1. the second dream: when your warframe breaks the sword, causing hunhow to exclaim 'NANI!!???' in disbelief (that it acted on its own, or maybe just that he was defeated and im looking too far into it)

2. the silver grove: when titania (whos operator at the time as far as we know was sylvana, who had been transferred into the grove and was no longer doing time limited [and albeit extremely hard on her physical and mental well being] transferrence runs using titania) saves sylvana from being burned to a crisp by the grineer

     ** sidenote : i joked back in 2016, july ( https://forums.warframe.com/topic/680557-spolierino-lotus-x-margulis-stalker-x-ballas/ ) in a single post that natah body snatched margulis (whoa, am i the prophet of profit?) (on the money?) and (probably totally wrong) that the stalker was controlled by ballas. i then had a discussion recently, having gone and reread my archived post, about how i forsaw the future but also that i was probably terribly off the mark with the whole stalker-ballas thing. BUT after typing this, i realize that if sylvana could transfer into titania even if only for a short time despite not being a 'tenno' (kid from the zariman, void radiated, potentially also in a symbiotic relationship with the technocyte virus {they say we are immune to it, but how would they know if they didnt try to infect us:? and if they did, did the tcyte die or is it living within side by side??} ) then it IS quite possible that somehow ballas can also do this. 

Stalker blames us for some things. wants to bring down the hammer of justice on us for acting above and beyond the law, taking matters into our own hands. Ballas also blamed us for some things. namely, blaming the ultimate murdaaaaa of his loved one (margulis) on the simple existence of the tenno (bcuz she worked with us and defied the council of the 7 and got zippy-zap fried on the judgement disc). 

SO this all comes together here

what if stalker IS controlled by ballas, but rebels against him of its own accord and sacrifices itself in order to save/protect the tenno and is *cough* ''reborn'' < notice quotation marks implying that i dont know a better word to use at the moment > as umbra excal, and thus the spell is broken and natah/lotus and the tweeno are able to resume their familial relationship and continue on their conquest for galactic domination.. i mean.. save the sol system. 

 

** other side note. i also used to say this, which is super duper far fetched and totally not ever probably likely to happen and literally cant happen because we saw ballas, but it was a fun thought so ill leave it here :

i used to say that ballas and margulis were a thing and margulis got pregnant just before being assigned somewhere away from ballas. she never told ballas about the kid because she didnt think he would make a great father and didnt want the kid to get twisted up into whatever drama would come of an executor of the seven impregnating a lowly archimedian or whatever title / rank margulis was. so, she kept it secret and had the kid and began to raise the child on her own. as good as she was from keeping secrets, word got out that she had a kid and the orokin leadership didnt like anyone to have anything of their own, so this child ends up being put into the care of the 'state' and is put into military training and as fate would have it ends up on the zariman ten-zero and becomes a tenno.

margulis begins the work of developing the synaptic relay and through working with her own child develops a motherly connection to the rest of the children. margulis ends up defying the seven, and gets zapped, after which davis and his team develop transferrence (post rhino prime codex) which is ultimately taken over by ballas.

 the young tenno becomes a prominant warrior having mastered the art of transferrence and using a warframe, winning battles for the council and as such receives the highest marks. in a a sour twist of destiny the young operator dies and as is customary of a society in which holds warriors in such high regard and who has an affinity for ceremony and rites, ballas makes it a point to visit the corpse of one of his finest soldiers. upon seeing the body, either through some trinket passed down from margulis to the child or perhaps some outstanding physical resemblence, ballas realizes that this was in fact his son/daughter.

at this point he is filled with such rage and hatred for the orokin, for himself, and for the other tenno who should have been there to either die in place or to prevent this ones end, he vows to destroy the remnants of the zariman ten zero: the tenno. so, in order to level the playing field and perhaps to gain the long and creepy upperhand, he does the unthinkable. He infects himself with technocyte. He enters into the void unprotected. And he downs some of that good ol' cephalon-sizzurp. Now we have an infested void radiated cephalon ballas. He then uploads infested cephalon ballas DLC into excaliber prime and in a fit of rage Rips off the Golden Faceplate / Helmet decoration, mutilating his helmet and scarring his ''face?'' and proceeds to track down tenno and their warframes for the sins they commit in the name of justice.

now, most of that i guess could still apply excluding infested ballas the cephalon DLC upload into excal prime and the whole self mutilation bit.. BUT what if he really is controlling the stalker? what if the stalker does end up sacrificing itself to save us and becomes umbra that way. you know how gandalf the grey becomes gandalf the white post balrog?

yeah i went there. 

Edited by PookieNumnums
i didnt mean to type that much so i put some of it in spoiler tag, but im at work waiting for stuff to print so i can leave... so meh. this is what ya get forum-peeps
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46 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

No one is going to be sacrificing Warframes because there is no mechanism for removing MR, also the first Umbra is Excalibur, and Excalibur Prime isn't coming back and DE aren't going to create a quest and new type of Warframe just for everyone who isn't a founder to be excluded.

Finally, Excalibur Umbra is already confirmed to be a new, standalone Warframe, not a skin, or an alternate anything, just a new type, like a Prime.

The more nonsense you come up with the more likely you are to be disappointed. Think about what is accessible to all the playerbase, that isn't going to make a recently worked-on mechanic redundant (Operators). Think about Prime access! Would DE want to make a new type of Warframe that would make everyone think twice about buying a Prime because they want the Umbra instead, are they going to make Excalibur Umbra notably better that "Excalibur Umbra Prime" that Chinaframe has?

No, none of those things are likely.

 

if you can sell a ranked frame you can sacrifice one.

what if you have to use a rank 30 frame to do the quest, same as in order to do sorties hm???? 

also, one frame with no operator doesnt mean all frames become umbra. so that could if we arent sacrificing our operators (which i totally dont think we are) still be sacrificing use of our operators (i.e. focus and such) while using that particular frame.

:P

Edited by PookieNumnums

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All i'm cheering for is that Umbra has different or "upgraded" powers. Even if they are just visually different or if umbra has a 5th ability, as long as it isn't just a skin and some minor shield/health/armor changes.

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17 hours ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

To be honest, my hype for this has fizzled out. They just need to get the thing out of the way so they can move on. If they don't, and keep pushing it back in favor of other, smaller things, it'll just loom over and detract from anything they release.

Like the Sentient Super weapon.

Or the alchemy system.

Or the VIP assassinations.

Or IPS changes.

Or...

To be honest Umbra not released was the reason I don't get hyped for almost anything related to warframe, PoE was something that I would be very hyped for.. but.. I was not.. i wen't online saw that huge map did a single mission and never played it again.. I used to watch every Devstream because it was and still fun to do, but now.. I just wait until it's finished and someone has posted what they talk about on the specific minutes of the video and check if there is umbra related, if not.. then I don't watch it at all.

I may be doing it right anyway.. I mean if I play warframe after Umbra release I'll have enough content to play around with it.

Edited by -Ringed-Umbra-
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The umbras ingame seems to have just same skills to whit slightly bump on stats...

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3 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

if you can sell a ranked frame you can sacrifice one.

what if you have to use a rank 30 frame to do the quest, same as in order to do sorties hm???? 

also, one frame with no operator doesnt mean all frames become umbra. so that could if we arent sacrificing our operators (which i totally dont think we are) still be sacrificing use of our operators (i.e. focus and such) while using that particular frame.

:P

Set a precedent that a Warframe can be required to be removed from your inventory in order to acquire more MR? When there are a load of Warframes that can't be re-acquired because their locked behind unrepeatable quests (that wouldn't even re-award the parts anyway)

I don't think you're paying attention to DE's history of cost/benefit analysis. I'm quite happy to say "Nah, not happening"

And players flexing their new Umbra Warframe can't use it to go Eidolon hunting? That DE are literally expanding on right now... again, nah, not happening. 

Stop thinking about what you think would be "cool" from (your interpretation of) a lore perspective and think about the work required and the utility of the mechanic.

Some players don't like the operators, that's true, it's also a fact that DE don't care, because it's done and it's staying. Their only interest is making them more interesting to sway as many as they can, there is simply too much investment in them now.

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So sorry if this question has already been asked but I may have missed it coz this thread it quite long. So with the Apostasy thing and all wet do you guys think The Sacrifice will be live? Some time in Jan or Feb ish or later in the year?

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6 minutes ago, Dhashruman said:

So sorry if this question has already been asked but I may have missed it coz this thread it quite long. So with the Apostasy thing and all wet do you guys think The Sacrifice will be live? Some time in Jan or Feb ish or later in the year?

Jan/Feb would be way too soon. Just to be safe I'd say April/May is more realistic. 

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It would be hilarious if the "Sacrifice" involves sacrificing a Traitorous Space Mom. In doing so, we forsake our Primes for Umbra fashion. Similar to Spidey going Black Emo suit after Civil War. 

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When they release umbra as a "completely new frame" that is more powerful than prime, Then people would only play umbra.

What will happen to the prime access then? To excalibur prime?.

I didn't say it was just a skin, I said that you can switch to umbra from the prime version which makes people buy/farm them.

The umbra will have it's own design, stats, abilities, MR points, and skins to use it with.

And they should change that prime passive, Not everyone plays in the void/derelict, 250 energy when they get in contact with a death orb is completely useless as we have other ways to get energy (Zenurik, Arcanes, Plates and some WF abilities), We need a new passive that works anytime, anywhere.

Otherwise, Players will only focus on acquiring umbra.

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On 1/1/2018 at 10:33 PM, CaptainStrawberry said:

Is the scarf on his torso part of his body or just one loooooong scarf?

 

cartoonish_excalibur_umbra_by_marshallve

 

The front of his scarf connects to his body as if it is part of it but you can see in this that it actually is indeed one long scarf, and that it works with skins as well. 

What is interesting about this is that the scarf’s color is determined by the secondary color.

Edited by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

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I have the feeling that the quest itself is done already...maybe it's been long before TWW. Can't wait to play it

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14 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Set a precedent that a Warframe can be required to be removed from your inventory in order to acquire more MR? When there are a load of Warframes that can't be re-acquired because their locked behind unrepeatable quests (that wouldn't even re-award the parts anyway)

I don't think you're paying attention to DE's history of cost/benefit analysis. I'm quite happy to say "Nah, not happening"

And players flexing their new Umbra Warframe can't use it to go Eidolon hunting? That DE are literally expanding on right now... again, nah, not happening. 

Stop thinking about what you think would be "cool" from (your interpretation of) a lore perspective and think about the work required and the utility of the mechanic.

Some players don't like the operators, that's true, it's also a fact that DE don't care, because it's done and it's staying. Their only interest is making them more interesting to sway as many as they can, there is simply too much investment in them now.

Who would sacrifice a frame they can't get again 

Quests will hopefully be replayable in the future 

 

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As I said; I don't expect this to be reality. I would love it to, personally, but I doubt it. Reason being, well, I'm either a pessimist, a realist or a sceptic, take your pick.Thing is, if Excal Umbra is the same as Excal, everyone's going to be disappointed; the Founders who loser their unqueness, those expecting new abilities, everyone who had hoped for something. The only ones NOT disappointed would be those with absolutely NO HYPE at all. Not the kind of people you seek to impress really. And, even such a group of people, wouldn't be enthused, just not disappointed. Which is a big distance from going 'HELL YES'.

I just hate wasting resources, as a person. I consider every idea that has been thrown in a half-drunk, late-night brainstorming session about something new to be a resource. So, to me, this could be their way to use those resources, the new ideas, the strange or hard ideas, the ideas that were never made real. The ideas gathered from the Forums, from Reddit, from Twitter, from the employees who just don't work at the right position to put them forth. Maybe someone out there from DE listens and obliges. Maybe not. At least I won't spend hours of my day thinking "should I write this or not" anymore.

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We could make Chroma Umbra have his first ability trashed, (No one really uses it anyway) and instead replaced with something like quiver for Ivara or Vauban's minelayer. For Chroma though, it would switch between his four elements. This is something that I am sure everyone would want. I mean, Chroma is already an amazing frame, but I really just want this to be a thing. I'm sure alot of us do. He seems very limited in his potential. I have never met a Chroma main once in-game or out, just people that use him for certain tasks like Eidolon hunting/capping, certain types of missions like defense or interception, but I have never, not once, met someone who mains him. I think that if he could switch between his elements, this might happen. Maybe make his passive ability something like based on which element he is using, the elemental caster frame would gain some kind of buff like energy regen. For example, Chroma has ice active. If there is a Frost in the squad, Frost will regenerate energy or gain some kind of immunity (To cold damage probably). If there is an Ember and Chroma has fire equipped, Ember will regenerate energy or gain some kind of immunity. (To heat damage, probably.) 

What do you guys think of this? I think that all of the elemental caster frames need to get Umbra variants. They have so much potential... (The elemental caster frames are my personal favorites. Except Chroma. I've never really liked his kit much. I think that this ability change could make it alot better.)

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vor 22 Stunden schrieb kuciol:

Why are you overhyping yourselves so much? Umbra is most likely just a replacement for prime. You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

That is the most sane post regarding this topic that I've read in a while. Kudos to you, good sir/madame!

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On 5.01.2018 at 7:46 PM, (PS4)X-x-X_8_O-o-O said:

-The umbras should not be a different warframe it should be like a slider/switch that you can toggle ONLY with prime warframes when you acquire the umbra version, So you can't use umbra unless you have the prime version, with the only exception to this is excalibur umbra.

This is bait, right?

Edited by Sarge_Tarmus
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9 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 

We already know every frame will have it's umbra, but I think having it stats better or worse than the primes does not matter, why? because if Umbra is a new set of warframes then they are actually that.. a new set of warframes.. it is not Excalibur prime.. even that excalibur prime is not avaible to anyone else it is still prime.. and if DE makes something like..  Sentient set of warframes for EXEMPLE, and those new set of warframes are supposed to be better than the prime ones, then Excalibur Sentient will be better than Excalibur prime and there should not be *@##&#036;ing about it, it would make no sense at all to all the Sentient set of warframes be stronger than the prime ones but just Excalibur sentient alone be weaker.

So let's say all Umbra will be stronger than prime, then Excalibur Umbra should as well, now let's suppose we change the lore and make Excalibur Prime the ultimate warframe that always have it's power updated by an unknown prime source, than all other alternatives of Excalibur should as well have it's powers updated by an unknown umbra or whatever new set of future frames unknown source we have on the future, S#&amp;&#036;, maybe one day a new set of warframes will be stronger than umbra and so on if this game continues to have a stronger community and space for whatever lore.

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11 minutes ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

We already know every frame will have it's umbra, but I think having it stats better or worse than the primes does not matter, why? because if Umbra is a new set of warframes then they are actually that.. a new set of warframes.. it is not Excalibur prime.. even that excalibur prime is not avaible to anyone else it is still prime.. and if DE makes something like..  Sentient set of warframes for EXEMPLE, and those new set of warframes are supposed to be better than the prime ones, then Excalibur Sentient will be better than Excalibur prime and there should not be *@##&#036;ing about it, it would make no sense at all to all the Sentient set of warframes be stronger than the prime ones but just Excalibur sentient alone be weaker.

So let's say all Umbra will be stronger than prime, then Excalibur Umbra should as well, now let's suppose we change the lore and make Excalibur Prime the ultimate warframe that always have it's power updated by an unknown prime source, than all other alternatives of Excalibur should as well have it's powers updated by an unknown umbra or whatever new set of future frames unknown source we have on the future, S#&amp;&#036;, maybe one day a new set of warframes will be stronger than umbra and so on if this game continues to have a stronger community and space for whatever lore.

I think the issue isn't really about Excalibur Umbra.

Since Excalibur Prime isn't available to the masses, if Excalibur Umbra turns out same or better than Excalibur Prime, the impact will only be on Founders who now have 3 Excaliburs with same abilities and slightly tweaked but frankly unnoticable changes.

Come the next Umbra is when things are going to be a huge problem.

Since Excalibur Umbra will set the precedence, if indeed Umbra frames are just meant to surpass Primes or be same as Primes and assuming they are easier to farm than via void relics, there will be no incentive to ever buy Prime Access or farm relics for Prime because eventually Umbra version will come out and it will be better or same anyway.

This also mean anyone trying to sell Prime parts will basically lose most of his/her income he moment an Umbra version of whatever he/she is selling is announced.

Since we do not know if there will be vaulting of Umbras, assuming there isn't, anyone selling say Ember Prime or Loki Prime for 1000 platinum will need to drastically drop the price permanently once DE announces Ember Umbra or Loki Umbra since those will be permanently available for farming for and will be better or same.

Actually, if Umbras were the same as Primes, it will be even more pointless than if they were slightly better.

Esentially, a reskin of a reskin is a rather pointless thing but the impact will first be felt by Founders and only on second Umbra will everyone feel it.

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