Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[NeithanDiniem]

54 minutes ago, Krhymez said:

Thing about lore... it is a story.  An creators can change the story. 

Just because you "think" you know how Warframes are made... it does not mean that its the only way.

The devs can very well add a new storyline about a Lone Tenno that "Sacrificed" themselves to keep their frame "alive".

Wait... does that not sound like the Harrow story? yes.. yes it does. A Tenno that bound themselves to a Frame.

Yes lets bind ourselves to one Warframe ever in the game.

Rell would not have been able to control other warframes if he wanted to. He would have been locked in. Binding ourselves to a frame frankly is the most absurd thing to think we are going to be able to do.

Also, DE has changed very little about the story after they have stated it, even if it contradicts. We have several distinct loopholes within the old prime description lore parts that are well known yet still not fixed or clarified.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

To be honest, while the title is Sacrifice, I don't think we will actually sacrifice anything.

And if we do, it is definitely not gonna be the kiddo because they won't build a system around something then remove it.

But even if they do, it will only be storywise and inconsequential/till end of the quest.

[KiroTheTraveler]

18 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

Thats china frame and really i doubt this has any relation to whats gonna happen with our umbra. Operator melee might happen wouldnt be suprised.

Hopefully the last time they had a good mention of it was around PoE I believe. 

[Lawmonark]

24 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

I don't "think" I know how warframes are made. It's been repeated multiple times that frames were built, from titania's quest lore, Prime trailers, Rhino Prime Codex and other tidbits from the weaponization of transference after the death of Margulis. I'm reiterating it back to people that think up theories that completely denies the evidence that has already been shown.

Rell didn't "sacrifice" himself to keep Harrow alive. Harrow was irrelevant to the quest. He sacrificed himself to keep the man in the wall at bay. He didn't have access to cryosleep technology so his soul was bound to harrow to preserve his life or soul to be exact. Until we came along and released his soul but also releasing the man on the wall. 

That whole quest line had nothing to do with warframes but more on the origins of what the void entity (man in the wall) is. So try again. 

Ok... he did not do it to keep "Harrow" alive... but he still "Sacrificed" himself and bound himslef with a Warframe. Before that quest, we did not even know it was possible. So making assumptions based on the current story... could be wrong.  We do not have the exact story about the origins of Warframes. You can quote the Codex all you want, but no where does it say "On this day the Orokin came up with and created the Frames". 

 

You can "assume" you know what is going on with the lore but most of it is in shambles and is speculation.

 

"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." -Socrates

[Lawmonark]

30 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

To be honest, while the title is Sacrifice, I don't think we will actually sacrifice anything.

And if we do, it is definitely not gonna be the kiddo because they won't build a system around something then remove it.

But even if they do, it will only be storywise and inconsequential/till end of the quest.

Maybe Space-mom will sacrifice her love for Ballas and return.

 

It would be weird to have Margulis "sacrifice" herself again, it would be a repeating theme for a storyline. 

 

 

Edit: Another "Theory", since we do not have any of the Umbra lore... we may need to "sacrifice" Excalibur to get Excalibur Umbra

Edited June 2, 2018 by Krhymez

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

There is nothing to elaborate really. They are immune to infestation, plain and simple. Controling Helminth strain is rather irrelevant because it isn't required, Tenno can control machines of the Orokin just fine, no signs of infestation within those at all. All frames have Helminth-strain infestation within them, hence why the Warframes are unable to be infested by the typical fare infestation, and explaining the Infested boss's dialogs, but are all able to be afflicted by Helminth's Cyst. We also have lost the knowledge required to fabricate our own Warframes, with Nova being the sole exception of us fabricating our own non-prime mass production model based off of incomplete Prime blueprints. We utilize blueprints that are mass-production models designed by the Orokin's Archimedians, and those are based off of Orokin tech. For Primes we use Orokin-designed blueprints. These prints are more than just a plan of how-to-build, they contain huge amounts of information, even memories. We simply don't know how to replicate that anymore.

This is very plausible, but harkens back to my possible disappointment in the very mundane “Henry Ford” angle.

I mean, do people seriously think that DE is going to give us this as a final third act when it comes to the Origin of Warframes?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=AugSW5GjGYym5gKyjIfwBw&q=henry+ford&oq=henry+fo&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0l2j0i131j0l2.1945.4328..5113...0....69.483.8......0....1.......3..41.W4eCwMkfSLc%3D

Edited June 2, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Umbra is almost certainly going to have the same abilities as regular Excalibur. The only likely difference will be additional effects, either to abilities or actions, and some stat changes. Like how Nidus has a natural, I think 30% boost to power strength.

I could easily see Umbra having a small boost to some of the power amounts and the others being slightly less. More power, less efficiency, for example.

As for abilities, idk. They could add just about any effect to them.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

Umbra is almost certainly going to have the same abilities as regular Excalibur. The only likely difference will be additional effects, either to abilities or actions, and some stat changes. Like how Nidus has a natural, I think 30% boost to power strength.

I could easily see Umbra having a small boost to some of the power amounts and the others being slightly less. More power, less efficiency, for example.

As for abilities, idk. They could add just about any effect to them.

its logical

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Idk about logical, but it seems reasonable to me.

If he was completely different, why even call him Excalibur Umbra? They could just call him Umbra.

[Damocles]

Second dream- we are born children
War within- we learn to use our powers
Sacrifice- we learn to let go

Seems like stages of parenting? I'm guessing we somehow become independent, but I'd love to see Hunhow crash a wedding too!

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

If he was completely different, why even call him Excalibur Umbra? They could just call him Umbra.

This.

[Aleksi134]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

Idk about logical, but it seems reasonable to me.

If he was completely different, why even call him Excalibur Umbra? They could just call him Umbra.

Well they most of the time call him Umbra not excalibur umbra.

[Eldnacpeek]

4 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

Well they most of the time call him Umbra not excalibur umbra.

 

He’s the only one in existence currently and that name is 6 syllables too long.

Edited June 2, 2018 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)dillonman202]

I'm just really excited/happy/relieved that the wait for Excalibur Umbra and The Sacrifice is finally coming to a close

[KiroTheTraveler]

15 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

He’s the only one in existence currently and that name is 6 syllables too long.

He is the King of Umbra' line.

He is Umbra. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

4 hours ago, Krhymez said:

Ok... he did not do it to keep "Harrow" alive... but he still "Sacrificed" himself and bound himslef with a Warframe. Before that quest, we did not even know it was possible.

Uhh yes we did. It's called the transference. No different than what tenno are capable of doing after they took off the restraints Margulis put on them.

4 hours ago, Krhymez said:

We do not have the exact story about the origins of Warframes. You can quote the Codex all you want, but no where does it say "On this day the Orokin came up with and created the Frames". 

We have multiple quotes and points that pieces together the origins of Warframes. They. Were. Built. You can try to dodge the factual points provided by the codex all you want. Excalibur Prime codex lays it out for you on a silver platter with a red carpet guiding you to the dinner table. 

"We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. Gave them the weapons of the old ways. Gun and blade. A new warrior, a new code was born. These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors. Warrior-Gods cast in steel and fury striking our enemies in a way they could never comprehend. Excalibur was the first. - Orokin 'Warframe' Archives "

" We built a frame around them " - On this day the Orokin came up with and create the warframes.

Edited June 2, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

41 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

Well they most of the time call him Umbra not excalibur umbra.

Well Excalibur Umbra is a mouthful and referring to him as EU could only cause confusion and/or trigger a politcal debate in the live chat. 

[Vilemyre]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Well Excalibur Umbra is a mouthful and referring to him as EU could only cause confusion and/or trigger a politcal debate in the live chat. 

Don't think talking about EU's exalted blade is gonna make people think Merkel has attained void powers.

[SilentMobius]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Just to clarify, I was throwing out the possibility that the very first Warframe of it’s kind may have required a Tenno Self-Sacrifice.

As much as @ShadowExodus is being overly dismissive I think the timelines strongly suggest that no Tenno sacrifice is needed to create any Warframe.

The RPC is set pre-Warframe. "The Beast" in that piece is certainly related to the eventual Rhino Warframe but Davis was explicit that "Nobody would have believed him" which means that "The Beasts" the other researcher was researching were not intended as anything related to the Zariman children. If Warframes existed at this point, the transference Davis was so desperate to test would not have been a surprise.

So, some time after that event Warframes were first constructed and given we have a demonstration that an non-tenno-sacrifice proxy was created it would be unusual for a Tenno to suddenly be needed.

Let me be clear: We probably don't have enough information to predict The Sacrifice story right now. However if we look at the non-story realities I think we can rule out a lot of things.

• DE want to continue their day/night choice system, so whatever the outcome of the Sacrifice, it would be completable by people going for either alignment.
• DE don't want to limit any content especially a new Warframe. It's just a waste of dev time.
• DE don't want to have to double up on post-sacrifice development effort.
• Operators are too embedded in important game systems to have their use limited.

So my conclusion: "The Sacrifice" will not be related to our Tenno, or any NPC Tenno. Any player choice will either be unrelated to the Day/Night meter or will have equivalent paths for both. It will not involve a player choice that will determine any ongoing VO work. Any choice offered will ultimately result in the same ongoing outcome regardless.

To go a little further into unfounded speculation, IMHO

• Umbra will not be a "built" Warframe.
• We will capture it,
• it will be the only type of Warframe that is motive when uncontrolled and the only type to be semi-sapient
• We will be given the excuse that it's pretty much irredeemably evil when left alone so the "moral out" will be that we are protecting others by dominating it into submission. 
• Excalibur Umbra will have the same powers as Excalibur, with Prime-like stat buffs but will act like a specter when you go into operator mode (This would also systemically mesh with greater control brought on by the in-dev pet command system)

This is just from the out-of-game realities rather than anything in-game

Edited June 2, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Kaotyke]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Well Excalibur Umbra is a mouthful and referring to him as EU could only cause confusion and/or trigger a politcal debate in the live chat. 

Excumbra

[AuroraSonicBoom]

8 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

DE want to continue their day/night choice system, so whatever the outcome of the Sacrifice, it would be completable by people going for either alignment.

The point of that system is to build your Tenno's character as mentioned very early on in development, which doesn't have to involve branching quest lines and exclusive endings. Even then, replaying the entire main quest line - should that eventually become available - to change your character solves that problem.

5 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

DE don't want to limit any content especially a new Warframe. It's just a waste of dev time.

Like locking yourself out of syndicate rewards unless you grind yourself all the way to the other allegiance conglomerate, right?

6 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

DE don't want to have to double up on post-sacrifice development effort.

Blatant exaggeration. Only a select few voice lines commenting on generic mission objectives and factions and one or two alternate scenes per quest would have to be created while the quest dialogue can remain the same.

12 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Operators are too embedded in important game systems to have their use limited.

Wrong. Focus is a necessary element of the game, but no one says you cannot decouple those two aspects from one another. One is merely an avatar while the other is a game mechanic. All the players really need from a gameplay standpoint is an alternative way to access void energy, which can certainly be explained with the right narrative devices.

My conclusion: Everything is on the table, and given that we know HeyKiddo will at least make an appearance in the quest, I'm not not leaning towards your theory. If Mass Effect can reward players with altered avatar cosmetics depending on what answers they choose, so can DE - even if it's just in a trimmed down, non gameplay affecting way.

[SilentMobius]

25 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

The point of that system is to build your Tenno's character as mentioned very early on in development, which doesn't have to involve branching quest lines and exclusive endings. Even then, replaying the entire main quest line - should that eventually become available - to change your character solves that problem.

My point is that the quest won't be organised such that only "Evil" characters can complete it.

25 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Like locking yourself out of syndicate rewards unless you grind yourself all the way to the other allegiance conglomerate, right?

No quests are locked regardless of syndicate affiliation, syndicate rep is just another currency for rewards. Not a player story choice.

25 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Blatant exaggeration. Only a select few voice lines commenting on generic mission objectives and factions and one or two alternate scenes per quest would have to be created while the quest dialogue can remain the same.

Nonsense. It would be a massive undertaking to replace the Lotus, more so if the replacement was a optional. Every subsequent mechanic, quest dialogue would require double the VO effort. Which is simply untenable as a dev cost.

25 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Wrong. Focus is a necessary element of the game, but no one says you cannot decouple those two aspects from one another. One is merely an avatar while the other is a game mechanic. All the players really need from a gameplay standpoint is an alternative way to access void energy, which can certainly be explained with the right narrative devices.

Nonsense, the focus on the operator for the Quills, cosmetics (Including Prime access cosmetics) indicate that DE are sticking with operators. DE are very good at avoiding anything that is a cost multiplier to their time.

25 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

My conclusion: Everything is on the table, and given that we know HeyKiddo will at least make an appearance in the quest, I'm not not leaning towards your theory. If Mass Effect can reward players with altered avatar cosmetics depending on what answers they choose, so can DE - even if it's just in a trimmed down, non gameplay affecting way.

You're welcome to your speculation. I'm happy to rely on fiscal reality for my guesses.

Edited June 2, 2018 by SilentMobius

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Even then, replaying the entire main quest line - should that eventually become available - to change your character solves that problem.

 

I shouldn't have to be forced to go over that entire thing again just to get my desired outcome if there is an eventual branch with locked content. That is a really, really unappealing idea.

[(XBOX)The Dracoknight]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Would you sacrifice an existing Prime Set to get the Umbra Variant?  😏

I’m pretty sure 99% of people would sacrifice mag! Lol

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

2 hours ago, (PS4)dillonman202 said:

I'm just really excited/happy/relieved that the wait for Excalibur Umbra and The Sacrifice is finally coming to a close

A close?

Sooooooon.

Probably. Eventually. Still no date...