[U21 Megathread] New Warframe: Harrow

[Kurambik]

While at it, having his 1 highlight the area considered as the enemies' head would be a nice QoL addition because I have just figured out that on most enemies I have absolutely no clue where their head is...

[DrBorris]

Harrow is a support Warframe that has to do the work for the team (kill stuff) in order to support. The point of a support is supposed to be to enable your team to kill stuff, but right now he has to say "Don't kill too much stuff, I need to kill stuff to support you". 

 

He is a solid Warframe solo, but he really misses the mark as a "support" Warframe. 

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Hieracon said:

Harrow feels overall like a very solid frame ability wise but his a bit squishy. Especially because shields are a very poor defense with basicly no scalling. Theres also another issue in the fact that Harrow cannot gain more overshields from enemies that have already been chained by Condemn which is a huge flaw for the ability in my opinion. If Nidus can gain infested stacks from attacking the same enemy with his Virulence then why shouldnt Harrow also be allowed to do the same? It limits Harrows survivability to much.

Are you sure you can't get more overshields from hitting affected enemies? I was doing this last night and it appeared to give more on each cast. 

[RedVoidDragon]

Needs a pretty big duration and range boost for most of his abilities, as well as a bigger arc for chains and more range for pretty much everything. With Primed Continuity and Stretch and cunning drift he feels like about how I'd expect him to be base but the chains arc is still way too small, should be like oberon where increase in rank and range mods give a bigger arc, right now it feels more narrow than frosts ice wave, which should also get an arc boost from range mods.

Basically he needs at least 50% more duration and range on everything and have his chains arc get wider with each rank and also scale with range mods. Right now you gotta chose between using his #3 or #1 and #2 since as soon as you use #2 you gotta spam #1 a lot to get shields back but after you use #3 you have to kill a bunch of stuff to get your energy back and chains doesn't really do enough damage to kill stuff even at medium levels to get the kills necessary to activate #3. Right now you have to micromanage too much stuff trying to get shields up while getting enough kills to keep your energy up otherwise the buffs run out and you're having to do them again.

[Kaokasalis]

37 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Are you sure you can't get more overshields from hitting affected enemies? I was doing this last night and it appeared to give more on each cast. 

No. I tested it in similacrum and it didnt give me anything on enemies already affected by condemn.

[4RT1LL3RY]

Penance's life steal only works when Harrow hurts people, it needs to work for allies too.

Thurible needs to give energy when allies get kills within range not just when Harrow does.  

Covenant needs to give critical chance to allies within range not just Harrow.  

TLDR; Harrow as is, is too "selfish" of a support who only supports his allies by doing the work himself instead of by improving his allies.  Much like how Chroma doesn't bring much to a squad full of DPS's Harrow is the same.

[hukurokuju5]

cast times too long, too much prep time is annoying

he is super squishy,

cc is really narrow

 

low level stomp frame

Edited June 29, 2017 by hukurokuju5

[AerinSol]

His kit isn't as team oriented as you might have thought DE. Beside what the others have said. His survivability is low do to how you keep ignoring how useless shields are in this game.

[hukurokuju5]

player has to keep buffs up , juggling timers , skill shot, and team invuln.  

>> good concept

 

 thurible takes a while to charge... penance has a long cast time and a requirement of shields, which relies on hitting a narrow skill-shot that has a travel time.

>> setup and skill cast times are a bit much.  he feels like a harder to play nidus, because he has no reliable damage reduction.  shields at higher levels dont cut it

 

suggestion : reduce setup times or increase some durations, 

 

 

[Asdryu]

"Sacrifice himself"

Two complaints at that game- Thurible. It's USELESS for teamplay. I don't care any thought about it, it's not for teamplay. For this, Harrow feels like another frame that thinks for himself.

1st issue: Thurible doesn't share the energy that others get from the killing of enemies. USELESS (I wouldn't care if point 2 will be a thing). If allies are in the area while achieving a kill, this should happen.
2nd issue: Thurible doesn't seem to trigger for ability warframe kills or stuff such as Ignis. USELESS AF. Don't give me the headshot multiplier, I'm fine with that, it's a bonus, but give me this.

IT WON'T BE OP!!! THERE'S TRINITY! I HATE HER! Why? She's the jack of all trades and I just want something else to use instead of Trinity. ALWAYS TRINITY.
You have problems surviving? Trinity
You need more energy? Trinity
You need to kill a specific target but it's very tough comapred to the other? Yes, even at killing, Trinity is good at it! (I don't really hate her and she's fine. I'm just bored of this. I want some variation, damn it. Is it too much to ask?)

Understand this, pls! Trinity can refill the energy of half of the map with just one enemy! Why something as situational as Thurible that requires even a build up to be good, has to be so limited?!

It's a good frame... But for solo, and I'm sick of solo frames!

Edited June 29, 2017 by RyuGold

[lookinerator]

Harrow doesn't look like a team player when using his 2nd and 3rd abilities.

Life-steal/Heal from the 2nd ability only applied when Harrow himself damages enemies - this should work as an aura shared with teammates.

Energy gain from the 3rd ability only applied when Harrow himself kills enemies - once again - should be shared with teammates, so their kills also provide energy gain.

This makes him very selfish - he must hog all/most of the kills to himself.

Also, pair him with any decent damage dealing frame and he suddenly becomes useless, since he won't be able to deal enough damage/rack kills at the same pace as damage dealer - and his support abilities WILL become useless.

[PhiZero]

Gone through three iterations of this post before sitting down for 2 bloody hours to calculate ability stats by hand with different builds.

Anyways, with a high power duration and strength build, (also the Vazarian focus for increased range) I can see Harrow being used in level 60-100 missions if used in a team oriented group, as his utility buffs can be an amazing benefit. Though I can also imagine that hell still be OHKO'd from shields having 0 damage resistance while being his highest numerical damage buffer and resource pool. The only solution I've come up with so far is to team up with a trinity or oberon, which is a bandaid fix for non-organized PUG (Pick Up Group) play.

Though the most immediate issue with Harrow's kit is his 1, Condemn. It is the bread and butter of his kit, but its pathing is less than spectacular if you're used to using parkour, or even fighting over a bridge. Not only does it have its effectiveness hampered by line of sight, (No longer sure how its working now...) but there's some issues where if you cast it over a corner that leads to a dead drop - or even in the air after bullet jumping - it just doesn't do anything and disappears from either falling off the map due to a small corner, or colliding with a lip in the environment while moving. It honestly could just use some quality of life changes, mainly in its hit box detection; maybe a very slight increase in its spread, or speed up its travel speed to make a missed/blocked cast be less punishing.  Been fiddling with power range, Condemn is fine as is. Just couldn't tell what it was doing with base 100% range due to the projectile size.

Did have some complaints about the rest of the kit being unusable, but managed to fix most of it by filling half the mod slots with corrupted mods; which, solved most of his solo issues when it came to power duration, efficiency, and strength. If the intent was to make a high skill cap warframe, everyone at Digital Extremes hit the mark in my book.

Edit: Does anyone know if Condemn travels in a line or a cone? Having a lot of trouble telling the difference.

Edited June 29, 2017 by PhiZero

[Ocerkin]

4 hours ago, hukurokuju5 said:

cast times too long, too much prep time is annoying

he is super squishy,

cc is really narrow

 

low level stomp frame

his 1 should have a (not as drastic) cone ala frosts ice wave, since its not actually damage dealing having it have a larger area of effect would be a nice balance in the power of the ability, i mean hell look at rhino's 4, it has a 360 degree range, a cc and damage, the least our staple dear god dont kill me power could do is give us a cone in front of us rather than a straight line, i have to cast it at minimum twice on a group of enemies even if they are decently packed together

[Tesseract7777]

7 hours ago, Kurambik said:

I know this may just be a quality of life suggestion but would it be possible to make Harrow's 1 highlight enemy heads? I am saying this because on some enemies, their heads are not where you expect them to be (for example on Moas I always thought that their gun was their head and they shot from their face until 5mins ago).

I've thought this could make a really good augment mod, to sort of help people learn where the heads are on the stranger enemies. Then, once they learn they don't necessarily need to use the augment anymore, or can keep using it for ease of use. But just highlighting heads isn't quite enough for an augment. I was thinking an augment where each instance of Condemn has a chance to scan enemies one at a time, and enemies who are scanned into the codex already have their heads highlighted in your energy color. Not sure I would want it as part of the base ability, because it makes it look like Harrow himself needs target tracking assistance to get headshots, and might be distracting for veterans who know where they are. 

 

Anyways, a few thoughts of mine on Harrow from playing so far: 

His passive: Cool idea, it gets up pretty fast by using Condemn, but I feel like he needs another way to increase his overshields, even if it ends up being augment -- although base ability would be preferable. Condemn can only give you shields from each trapped enemy once, and you have to kind of be spammy with it to get those overshields where you want. He needs more ways to make use of this mechanic. It is too binary, just spam condemn then use penance rinse repeat, we should be able to be a little more versatile with our powers, at least with augments. My suggestion here would be to add a small amount of shield regen that can spill into overshields for kills with thurible, with more shields gained on headshots. We could also have an augment that makes it also give shields to allies in range as well -- as the main idea would be to help Harrow. If this was too much for the base ability, we could just put it all in an augment. Thurible also restores shields to Harrow and allies. 

Condemn: I haven't used range mods on it yet, but it is not very wide. Seems like a very narrow cast, I'm hoping Stretch makes a big difference. Same complaint really when it comes to how we get overshields. We kind of need to be really spammy with Condemn to get decent CC down. 

Penance: The ability it self seems perfectly fine and the range on the heal is great. The issue I have with this ability is only mechanical. It seems that the shields are sacrificed in chunks over a few seconds, or at least it looks that way visually. Is there some way to check for amount and just remove them all at once? It just feels really clunky and makes me confused as to whether the ability has fully started yet or is in some kind of animation still. Some have also suggested Penance healing should be an aura that includes allies, like I suggest later with thurible. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, as Penance doesn't require kills, or headshots to heal, it only requires damage. this is a much easier threshold to reach. 

Thurible: Thurible really, really, really needs to count allied headshots and kills in range. Far too often, allies are simply killing stuff first. Even with Condemn, allies make it very difficult to get consistent headshots. Those allies don't mean badly, they are just trying to quickly kill stuff too, which is a smart thing to do. Being consistent wouldn't be such a big deal too if Thurible didn't cost such a high initial investment to get good returns from it. The base energy conversion rate is so low, that each ten or so more energy I spend hardly makes it that much more effective, even on headshots. If you really want it to be effective you have to use Flow and then drain most of your energy, then you can get back huge pulses of 150+ at once, but your allies can still take your kills and this requires a lot of initial sacrifice, energy and setup. All for an ability that is much harder to use than EV Trin, has ten less meters base range, and often won't get much effectiveness with allies taking kills. 

This ability is simply never going to be used as any kind of replacement for EV Trin unless it takes allied kills and headshots within Thurible range into account. This also would give allies another reason to stay nearby Harrow and group together as a squad. Always good in a coop game. 

Also, the base energy conversion rate should probably be higher, as it eats an absolutely insane amount of energy to even start doing what Trin can do with ease. It's like you guys are so worried about other energy giving abilities that you gimped this thing super hard before it could go out the door. All I can say was, if you were trying to get people to play something besides EV Trin, this thing needs some major buffing. 

Covenant: Is the animation time supposed to mean that the only thing I get to do during invuln is protect my allies and swirl in a circle? Because if so that seems a tad silly to me. The animation is simply absurdly long. Solo I guess you gain your buff but you don't really have time to use it to position yourself better because you spend most of it in the animation so it's mostly a waste of time for protection. In a group, still kind of silly I can't really be doing anything during it. 

Overall a cool frame with a lot of potential. When some people say he is squishy, I think they need to temper their expectations with the fact that he is supposed to be a shield frame, he was supposed to release with shield gating but it is not here yet. I think shield gating will solve his squishiness problems, that's not my issue. And while his healing isn't the fastest thing ever, I would say it is still miles quicker and more effective than Mend, and Thurible has a lot of potential. 

Short summation of issues: 

Lack of ways to get more overshields besides spamming condemn

Condemn hitbox seems a tad narrow

Penance seems to take off my shields in chunks of 600 instead of all at once, this is clunky and confusing to me. 

Thurible needs better base energy efficiency, far too punishing to get going for not enough reward. Allies kills and headshots need to be counted, or Harrow will never be a proper support frame being counted on to get all the kills himself, and it will never be a replacement for EV Trin by anyone serious. If allies headshots and kills are not included, and this won't be considered, then as a serious support frame, Harrow is already dead on arrival. 

Covenant needs a much shorter cast time, we are essentially locked into animation for the majority of invuln period. 

Other thoughts: Would be nice if we could at least roll or backflip while charging thurible. Just a little more mobility because while we can move, we don't have full mobility and even if a Natural Talent can speed it up (I haven't tried yet) Thurible takes a lot of time and energy to get going to proper effectiveness. That's time where you are a sitting duck for the most part. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Pyus]

Harrow Feedback: 

1 - Condemn - Have it return energy on hit, because you have to spam this to get enough oversheilds to make use of Penance

2 - Penance - Cast time is 1 second too long, by the time you cast it you can and often will be dead. Either shorten the cast time or give it a damage reflect during animation so that you can start healing at the beginning of the animation and not at the end of it. 

3 - Thurible - easily replaced in any build by a rage mod, especially with penance going. This is an ability that looks good on paper but does not preform well. Have mobs that are damaged by Harrow during Thurible debuffed and have that debuff activate the energy regen, so other players can't kill steal the mobs and rob you of the energy. If you tag it, you get credit for kill. 

4 - Covenant - Weapons that are crits weapons will not benefit much from this because they already have high crit, weapons with low crit do not see much reward because the amount gained does not give any meaningful bonus. So.. change it from Crit chance to Crit damage. This will scale much better with all weapons. And remove the cap.. abilities that cap remove the potential rewards for making a successful play. if I absorb 1k damage I am at 50%, if I absorb 10,000,000 damage, I am at 50%... lame. 

 

Harrow is what Oberon should have been, a frame that converts damage to health. Yet Harrow has no damaging abilities. Strange frame. Not a huge fan of the power set. Feels like it needs an augment that make Thurible increase the duration of penance based on mobs killed, or gives oversheilds like Trinity when you reach energy max.

[Mythronies]

I WANT to love this frame he has a lot of soloist potential, but like other have pointed out above, this frame relays on on a massive issue. The shields.

The shield mechanic in Warframe is close to pointless, I never use shields in any way, its kinda just there.When I saw the frame and how it works I though," Yea, a frame I can build like Nidus or Inaros, but for shields." but I then remembered 2 things, Slash proc's and toxin at high tear will straight up one shot me, and my max health and armor is laughably low. The passive seems like a good idea on paper and with Taxon I can get a massive amount of shielding in a short time, making his second ability last forever and achieving wondrous damage mitigation on the lever of Nidus or Pure Str Oberon. This in practice however was not happening. Level 25 Grineer was chewing me up like no tomorrow and the infested was just ROFL stomping me all day with there Toxin ancients, toxic crawlers, and Ospreys spewing there bad breath everywhere. I had not yet fought with the corpus but I imagine it would be no different.

I had thought on a few idea to fix this.

• Changing his passive to change the damage that toxin/bleed do to health go to shields instead.
• Adding more shield mods to the game where we can mitigate the two problems.
• Change how shields work altogether by getting rid of the charge delay. ( I like this one, sounds fun.)
• Change the bleed proc mechanic to where it can't damage the player until the shields are down. (Bleed though shields NEVER made logical seance, unless its like ghost cuts, fkn hate ghost cuts, comes out a nowhere and makes long irritating<sometimes painful> cut lines on your skin.)
• Have Antitoxin mod mitigate more then 45%, I don't know where to set it at. 75-90%?

Anyhoo, I will continue to keep trying and playing with this frame to see if there a fun way to solo with him, I would just hate to drop this frame solely on the fact that shield mechanics are outdated. Other then the problem above I love the frames look and ability animation.

 

[Starwake]

So I have been playing with harrow for some time and found him to be very fun. But casting thurable all the time is very taxingwith groups and not getting energy back from kills when allies take them. 

It also leaves you defenseless when you need to recast the long charging energy buff. It Would be nice if this was a toggleable after charge to not be forced to be recasting so much. Or if it gave damage reduction and projectiles in front of him were deflected giving him some defense while casting thurable.

I also don't like how half of the invinsability time on his 4th is an animation. Leaving little time if needed to cast penance or other abilities. 

Would also like to know the range of the heal on penance.

Right now I have power strength and duration as a build with some range. Due to his support being limited in range and slow cast times.

I think with a few tweaks harrow could be a great frame. 

Also if they add shield gating he will be epic

It would also be neat if thurable staggered enemies if hit by it

Edited June 30, 2017 by Starwake

[EchoesOfRain]

4 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Penance: The ability it self seems perfectly fine and the range on the heal is great. The issue I have with this ability is only mechanical. It seems that the shields are sacrificed in chunks over a few seconds, or at least it looks that way visually. Is there some way to check for amount and just remove them all at once? It just feels really clunky and makes me confused as to whether the ability has fully started yet or is in some kind of animation still. Some have also suggested Penance healing should be an aura that includes allies, like I suggest later with thurible. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, as Penance doesn't require kills, or headshots to heal, it only requires damage. this is a much easier threshold to reach. 

The way I think it works, he hits himself twice with his Thurible thing. The first hit takes away all of his Overshields, and the second takes his normal shields. If he doesn't have Overshields it justs hits normal shields twice. It's more of a visual thing, I guess.

 

From what I see, Harrow just needs to rely less on dealing damage himself and allow allies to utilize his buffs. For a support frame, he has to play very selfishly right now. I think if the charge rate on Thurible was nerfed with more allies to compensate, it would be fine for all allies to get energy from kills. So in solo, Thurible charges at its normal speed. With 3 other players, Thurible charges at a fourth of the speed. 

[-Defeater-]

11 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Harrow is a support Warframe that has to do the work for the team (kill stuff) in order to support. The point of a support is supposed to be to enable your team to kill stuff, but right now he has to say "Don't kill too much stuff, I need to kill stuff to support you". 

 

He is a solid Warframe solo, but he really misses the mark as a "support" Warframe. 

Same problem i have with octavia. Octavia shines solo even though shes a support. go invis, throw 4 and 1. 

Profit.

allies just get in the way of this, and with harrow in pretty much everything theres going to be dps frames making your support worthless. who cares if you have harrow? take trin. does healing, energy regain, near invulnerability for herself and the team. no need to headshot or kill stuff. no need to keep track of 4 timers, no need to charge abilities, literally 0 point in taking harrow over trin to a mission. unless you like how he plays, in which case youre better going solo due to the fact lining up headshots turns out to be a way less effective way of giving support than hitting one button on one enemy, and all the kills you try to get are going to be gone before you even cast your 1 if theres an equinox on your team. 

[Tesseract7777]

32 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:

The way I think it works, he hits himself twice with his Thurible thing. The first hit takes away all of his Overshields, and the second takes his normal shields. If he doesn't have Overshields it justs hits normal shields twice. It's more of a visual thing, I guess.

 

From what I see, Harrow just needs to rely less on dealing damage himself and allow allies to utilize his buffs. For a support frame, he has to play very selfishly right now. I think if the charge rate on Thurible was nerfed with more allies to compensate, it would be fine for all allies to get energy from kills. So in solo, Thurible charges at its normal speed. With 3 other players, Thurible charges at a fourth of the speed. 

However it ends up working, I would agree that is by far the biggest serious issue with Harrow right now. 

I would also go for allies kills and headshots counting for thurible, but only working at reduced effectiveness, like say allies kills and headshots only do half of what Harrow would do if he got the kill, or something like that. 

[akira_him]

I am a bit disappointed that the chain used in Condemn doesn't apply the energy colour, where are my flaming chains

Edited June 30, 2017 by akira_him

[Chipputer]

I summarized my thoughts on Harrow to my buddies as, "Harrow wants to be good but he just isn't."

I then rambled into our discord about what I think, so I'll just copy and paste that here:

there's a lot of problems he has

1. There's no good way to mod him -- He needs duration but he also needs power. Casting speed is almost a must (because otherwise you take forever to use your 3 and 4). On top of that if you need to mod him for efficiency in order to actually use thurible and other skills at the same time

2. Thurible only restores energy on kill -- self explanatory. Trinity overdoes it but at least she doesn't require you to kill. The longer your TTK the less return on investment.

3. Even with nearly 200% duration the invuln from his 4 isn't nearly long enough to do anything with it -- Sure I can give myself a minute of energy regen but I can't even get a full revive out with my ult which is one of the few things it's useful for

4. Allies hitting and killing enemies takes away from your ability to use penance and thurible, yourself -- you heal by dealing damage and you heal your energy by killing. Zenurik or nothing

5. Condemn, while good, has next to no verticality so it's impossible to use on varied terrain in any respectable manner

Conceptually I really like him

In action he's awful

Scaling will eventually make his only useful powers his first and fourth, due to one shotting making healing useless and not being able to kill making thurible difficult to justify

His fourth will eventually be outscaled due to the first half (and it's not even half, it's like 1/3 or 1/4) being always useful but the second half only giving you up to 200% crit on headshots only

Damage only gets you so far

You also only get 50% crit on bodyshots at max

None of this affects crit damage, by the way

All they had to do was make Thurible be an AoE that restored energy when you shoot an enemy within range of Harrow, more for kills, more for headshot kills

Then he'd at least be decent

The even worse part about Thurible is that, unlike Energy Vampire, you will eventually run out of energy fodder

Either you mod for strength and kill only a few to restore full energy or you mod for duration and kill a ton

Mind you, if you don't mod for duration you're going to constantly be spinning your thurible, too

He's just clunky and not very useful

[Buzkyl]

Let's get into this feedback

 

Passive- Without shield gating in place this passive barely serves use in keeping Harrow alive, while i would reommend tweaking it I will wait till shield gating arrives before passing full judgement. Currently it's only purpose is to serve as a boost for his penance skill.

 

1. Condemn- One handed skill, restores shield and CC enemie, it's a very well made ability and serves as one of his most spammable abilities.

Feedback- You are unable to gain shield from already chained enemies, this is very limiting in areas where enemy numbers are sparse.Harrow has to either wait for the effect to finish, or find a new group of enemies. Skill like Virulence which too gain thier power of repeated use of enemies are not under the same restriction and i believe Condemn should follow suit

Recommendation- Casting condemn on currently chained enemies refreshes their CC timer, but restores shield by 50% of what they would normally give.

 

2. Penance- Harrow sacrifices his shield to boost fire rate, reload speed for all allies in Affinity range will providing lifesteal based on his damage deal. It pairs excellently with condemned to create a hefty buff with a good duration. Infact the skill stacks in duration meaning you can go well over 200s with this thing active.

Feedback- Rooting harrow in place is a is very counter active to his active gunfighter playstyle, Harrow is stopping and also removing his primary source of  protection, his shields.

Recommendation- Like changes to Mag's Magnetize, allow the skill to be used while on the move.

 

3.Thurible- Harrow channels his incense and all allies in range will regen energy based on the given amount and x4 the value if the kill was a headshot kill.

Feedback- I have plenty, this skill has multiple issues.

• Harrow must the one one to get kills trigger the energy regen effect. This forces him into a competition with his own teamamtes he's supporting as he must beat them in kills to support them, this goes against his nature as a support frame. When paired with frames who are capable of AoE destruction harrow will unable to regnerate energy as his skills will be "stolen".
• A base range of 15M is very small, in open tilesets many times Harrow will unable to support frames as they will be too far away from him, despite being in the same tile/room.

Recommendation

• Increase Base range to 20M or have the range increase the longer the skill is charged up
• Allow ally weapon kills to also restore energy in radius but at a weaken effect.  If Harrow is the one who gets the killed, the energy restored is 100% of the charged value, if it was an ally in radius the energy restore is 75% of the listed energy values.  This allows harrow to support his teamates but also allows teamamtes to support themselves and each other. Everyone benefits from getting kills under this ability.

4. Covenant- Harrow's ultimate, in which he charges damage absorbed during a period of time and sues that to boost hismelf and teammates damage.

Feedback- A simple ability but has the potential to boost Harrow and his temamates damage sky high, imagine making your favorite weapon red crit consistently. Harrow is able to provide team suvivability, followed by a team DPS boost. However this skill has some problems

• Weapon who are able to consistently crit don't really see the full benefit of this skill, bows, melee weapons and other crit weapons who are able to crit consistently are rinoically the poor choice of weapons for this skill, weapons like explosives and other weapons which are strong but are unable to crit would be the best option for this skill. However, i don't believe that a branch of weapons should be less effective by this skill just because they are able to do what this skill promotes, crit.

Recommendation- Allow this skill to also boost Critical damage when the cap for Critical boosts is met. This allow the skill to be much better in the hands of crit weapons and non crit weapons the like.

 

Comparison vs Trinity

 

Just like Oberon vs Trinity, harrow is once again deemed "uselss" because his skills are over-showed by trinity's. Energy Vampire i a broken skill, allowing teams to regenerate 150+ energy in less than 2s. It is basically infinite energy, while Thurible should be viable it should not be that levels of broken. Harrow is an offensive version of a support frame, similar to oberon but providing more gunplay related buffs than survival buffs. Trinity cannot boost team DPS like he can while also providing great CC. While both are support frames, they both fill much different niches.

If Thurible is able to allow teammates to regen energy for themselves, he would be a very nice alternative to trinity, a more offensive version of a support frame that most teams would gladly love to take advantage of.

[SSI_Seraph]

3 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

2. Penance- Harrow sacrifices his shield to boost fire rate, reload speed for all allies in Affinity range will providing lifesteal based on his damage deal. It pairs excellently with condemned to create a hefty buff with a good duration. Infact the skill stacks in duration meaning you can go well over 200s with this thing active.

Don't think it does actually, the fire rate and reload speed are for him only, and he needs to do the damage for the lifesteal. Same issue as thurible. Aoes will make this one useless too.

[AerinSol]

OMG.

Make his 4th quicker to be cast. By like 70% NO! THAT IS NOT MISTAKEN REQUEST, cut it by 70%

It takes so long for it to be cast, we barely have 2-4 seconds to use it!