I saw a post about Gara being nerfed recently

[trst]

1 minute ago, Mad_NOORS said:

Look instead of giving Gara the health treatment why not just give her 4 affected by Range and make it channeling? Her 4 doesn't cover the top part of the objective so its very problematic in Void Defense and Kuva Defense, Limbo and Frost are already must haves in Defense and both of them don't invalidate each other, the problem with MV was it scales her 2 to the millions.

Warframe already has lots of damage dealers, a frame that can provide alternative to Frost wouldn't make Frost obsolete.

The top being open isn't even a factor, just jump higher. Besides the Kuva Fortress (which I honestly forgot exsisted) there are no defence tiles that are too vertical for MV to cover.

 

And there are plenty of Frost alternatives already, Gara will remain one of them even after the change.

Limbo causes salt levels to increase exponentially in certan players and you can't shoot out of Cataclysm unless the enemies are also banished.

Volt can cast shields over a point but is more limited by their duration making it more micro intensive.

Atlas' Techtonics augment works as an overall worse Volt shield but blocks enemy pathing.

 

And then there is every other frame that doesn't provide direct cover but disrupts enemies enough to defent a point. Banshee, Ember, Equinox, Harrow, Hydroid, Mag, Nova, Nyx, Vauban, etc.

[aligatorno]

11 minutes ago, Mad_NOORS said:

Look instead of giving Gara the health treatment why not just give her 4 affected by Range and make it channeling? Her 4 doesn't cover the top part of the objective so its very problematic in Void Defense and Kuva Defense, Limbo and Frost are already must haves in Defense and both of them don't invalidate each other, the problem with MV was it scales her 2 to the millions.

Warframe already has lots of damage dealers, a frame that can provide alternative to Frost wouldn't make Frost obsolete.

That does sound interesting, and she'll be able to keep her energy up by using Rage and her 2. 

Regarding Frost. Unfortunately so many players see him as a one trick pony, only using him for his globe, not realising how versatile he can actually be even without having to do big sacrifices. I`ve seen so many calling him useless in the threads regarding Gara's rework that I couldn't even believe. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by aligatorno

[TzXtetriC]

Gara's 4th skill has a timer, how can that be broken? It cracks when it reaches 0 and u have to cast it again. Like Frost globe, it has a hp Meter and cracks when it reaches 0. 

Nothing to Nerf here, it's just DE's addiction to Nerf and destroy stuff as they go by.

Edited December 6, 2017 by TzXtetriC

[Mad_NOORS]

4 minutes ago, trst said:

The top being open isn't even a factor, just jump higher. Besides the Kuva Fortress (which I honestly forgot exsisted) there are no defence tiles that are too vertical for MV to cover.

 

And there are plenty of Frost alternatives already, Gara will remain one of them even after the change.

Limbo causes salt levels to increase exponentially in certan players and you can't shoot out of Cataclysm unless the enemies are also banished.

Volt can cast shields over a point but is more limited by their duration making it more micro intensive.

Atlas' Techtonics augment works as an overall worse Volt shield but blocks enemy pathing.

 

And then there is every other frame that doesn't provide direct cover but disrupts enemies enough to defent a point. Banshee, Ember, Equinox, Harrow, Hydroid, Mag, Nova, Nyx, Vauban, etc.

Because it's so much fun to jump every 1 minute to recast. Limbo has minimum range, use it. As I said in pre made teams melee is the very strong so it's not a problem with good communication. Volt shields does not stop AOE damage(tried and tested) so its useless against Bombards and Eximuses. Atlas Teutonics is trash, try using against level 80 and abive, it'll go down veerrrryyyy quickly. Frost has invulnerability timer to bypass enemy damage scaling and can health stack to 1 million that's affected by armor.

 

None of the frame you listed provide a PROTECTION so one stray bullet is all it takes in high levels to insta fail the entire mission. Trust me, I do a LOT of Axi Endurance runs and you NEED a frame that stops bullets.

[aligatorno]

3 minutes ago, TzXtetriC said:

Gara's 4th skill has a timer, how can that be broken? It cracks when it reaches 0 and u have to cast it again. Like Frost globe, it has a hp Meter and cracks when it reaches 0. 

Nothing to Nerf here, it's just DE's addiction to Nerf and destroy stuff as they go by.

It's not the same thing, not at all. With Frost's Globe unless you refresh it, and it reaches 0 hp, it's gone. No matter what enemies do to that shield except for nullies it won't get destroyed. 

[Wolfdoggie]

I don't have her so idk what she does beyond blocking my ability to see things. Only saw 1 Gara out of thousands who actually used a fully transparent color.

[trst]

34 minutes ago, Mad_NOORS said:

Because it's so much fun to jump every 1 minute to recast. Limbo has minimum range, use it. As I said in pre made teams melee is the very strong so it's not a problem with good communication. Volt shields does not stop AOE damage(tried and tested) so its useless against Bombards and Eximuses. Atlas Teutonics is trash, try using against level 80 and abive, it'll go down veerrrryyyy quickly. Frost has invulnerability timer to bypass enemy damage scaling and can health stack to 1 million that's affected by armor.

 

None of the frame you listed provide a PROTECTION so one stray bullet is all it takes in high levels to insta fail the entire mission. Trust me, I do a LOT of Axi Endurance runs and you NEED a frame that stops bullets.

Without the MV nerf you still need to recast every minute and with the nerf they're removing the duration. Meaning it is possible for it to last over a minute if you build for having a tanky MV but that requires actually recieving and testing the change.

 

Volt can just cast his shields away from the pod, they don't all need to be on top of it and only need to cover main sightlines from enemies. Easier said that done in some tiles but it's still an functional option that's not Frost.

The only difference between Snowglobe and Techtonics in terms of their health is the base health and that Atlas can't infinitly stack their health. They actually have the exact same armor modifier and invulnerability absorbtion.

 

I didn't say they provide "protection" I said they disrupt enemies enough to defend an objective. Enemies that're confused, stunned, slept, etc are enemies that are not attacking the objective. They work best in conjunction with another Frame like Frost but they can, in fact, work on their own. Maybe not if you're going 40+ waves in an Axi but that brings up a load of other issues with the game beyond any frame balancing.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

just remember, whatever it turns out as, it could've been worse; only because of people raising hell on Aiden's post did they decide to scrap the Duration and just go with a health-based MV. otherwise it would've had health AND Duration to contend with on top of it's current downsides (Gara being vulnerable during Cast, having to Bullet Jump to get a decent height, and being vulnerable to aerial attacks.).

we may not have reverted the change completely, but at least Gara's 4 will still be somewhat Viable with High Power Strength, rather than useless with any build.

[Arniox]

5 hours ago, Separius said:

I was pretty bummed out about it.

But I think the vocal minority who wants her nerfed is probably more happy about it than I am sad to see her get nerfed.

The total happiness in the world increased.

So, whatever.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Arniox

[PhotriusPyrelus]

4 hours ago, Mad_NOORS said:

If they said they're not comfortable to abilities denying access to enemies then LIMBO, Banshee, Rhino, Vauban should also be nerfed then, since they also deny access.

O.o  How does Rhino deny access to enemies?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

6 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Gara was fine the way she was. She had a niche and this is going to kill it. I would have rather seen frost changes to make him contest gara, not the other way around.

Bravo! Took the words right out of my mouth!

[AzureTerra]

Meh Changes happen, you either accept that or spend the rest of your time moaning about how unfair it is on the forums like every class fan who had a change or rework that altered how you played it at any given time.

[Vox_Preliator]

I haven't used her, so I won't speak on whether or not the nerf is warranted, but this brings up a point I find utterly infuriating.

I really don't get the Warframe community sometimes.  Her 4 will get worse, and suddenly she'll be completely trash-tier and never be worth using ever?  Sometimes it feels like if they made the Tigris Prime deal 1559 damage or Maiming Strike give +89% crit chance that the community would collectively declare them useless and refuse to touch them ever again.  Every nerf gets similar attention and treatment, as if every single one both unquestionably ruined something beyond repair and also came about via puppy-killing.

[Mad_NOORS]

6 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

O.o  How does Rhino deny access to enemies?

Press 4, laugh. 

[Cubewano]

10 hours ago, TzXtetriC said:

Gara's 4th skill has a timer, how can that be broken? It cracks when it reaches 0 and u have to cast it again. Like Frost globe, it has a hp Meter and cracks when it reaches 0. 

Nothing to Nerf here, it's just DE's addiction to Nerf and destroy stuff as they go by.

But if you think frost situation with an hp meter is the same as gara's fourth being duration based, then why is gara's four being made to use an hp meter instead of duration a nerf? it's should just be shuffling design to you. 

[Marvelous_A]

Not a fan of Gara, the only situation I'd want a Gara in my team is kuva farming coz the glass wall can block the fat@sses and kuva from getting to the siphon

[Mad_NOORS]

10 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

But if you think frost situation with an hp meter is the same as gara's fourth being duration based, then why is gara's four being made to use an hp meter instead of duration a nerf? it's should just be shuffling design to you. 

Gara can't stack globe health, no 3 second invulnerability timer like Frost. So its worse than normal Globe. In 40 waves Axi Defense even 1 million health globe takes reasonable time to go down if you let enemies shoot it. 

[Cubewano]

6 minutes ago, Mad_NOORS said:

Gara can't stack globe health, no 3 second invulnerability timer like Frost. So its worse than normal Globe. In 40 waves Axi Defense even 1 million health globe takes reasonable time to go down if you let enemies shoot it. 

i'm aware of how both function, thanks. 

[PhotriusPyrelus]

3 hours ago, Mad_NOORS said:

Press 4, laugh. 

I'm pretty sure enemies caught in 4 still take damage from all sources...

[Mad_NOORS]

2 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

I'm pretty sure enemies caught in 4 still take damage from all sources...

Uh yeah? That's the point of CC? Make them not shoot you so you can shoot them back?

[VocalMagic]

2 hours ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

I'm pretty sure enemies caught in 4 still take damage from all sources...

Did you misunderstand, and think that "Denies access to enemies" meant that the players could not access enemies?

What it meant was "It does not allow enemies to enter a certain area"

[PhotriusPyrelus]

12 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

Did you misunderstand, and think that "Denies access to enemies" meant that the players could not access enemies?

What it meant was "It does not allow enemies to enter a certain area"

Well, I mean, the post was talking about Limbo, and from my admittedly limited observations, Limbo doesn't stop enemies from moving, it keeps players from hitting them with bullets.

 

EDIT:  Also, if the intent is to talk about CC, don't forget Hydroid and Nidus.

Edited December 7, 2017 by PhotriusPyrelus

[(PSN)Radehx]

This isn't about happiness...it's about balance. Her 4 had no drawbacks on top of the frame having amazing scaling damage...it was simply too OP and anyone objectively looking at this will realise this. 

[LupisV0lk]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

This isn't about happiness...it's about balance. Her 4 had no drawbacks on top of the frame having amazing scaling damage...it was simply too OP and anyone objectively looking at this will realise this. 

Alas there is no objectivity in video game forums. Only feelings....and right now the feeling is "REeeeeee" it seems.

[Crisp]

i mean now after the nerf the wall is litterly useless.. they can just shoot out the parts of the wall and enemies can shoot in anyway. then you gotta replace the whole wall and it just repeats... dunno de about this one.

Edit:

Itscales pretty bad  you litterly gotta drop all other mods and use all armor and PS mods. only then i managed to get it up to 9.8k wall health. but it cost 105 to cast. could make the build better but i hope you see where im going with this..

Another edit:

You can get an extra 1k armor from focus tree.

3 seconds. Thats how much 1 segment of the glass wall lives under  the fire of lvl 145 corrupted heavy gunner. 3 f****ng seconds. Use it on the 3rd sortie and it wont even finish casting before destruction. Gara 4 is dead beyond ordinary starchart. (8.8k wall hp) 

Also kuva goes straight through it without stopping it and on touch it destroys the segment.

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by CrispLV
Own tests and clanmates.