Is there a game that hands out Nerf's more than or equal to WARFRAME?

[(PSN)Eluminary]

 As other said as other said that seems kind of crazy have you ever heard of Destiny?...  I think they literally nerfed every single weapon in that game(destiny 1)multiple times every single patch they ever did...

 

 Warframe has tons of powerful weapons and frames the rare nerfs leave tons left to play with.

[vvhorus]

On 1/17/2018 at 11:08 PM, freeformline said:

Path of Exile and League of Legends

 

On 1/17/2018 at 11:09 PM, Spectre-8 said:

Terrible games with terrible communities, in my personal opinion .

Fixed it for you. I play and thoroughly enjoy Path of Exile. Since I don't frequent its forums or reddit, can't really say anything about its community, but, being an old school Diablo fan, I like the game.

On topic: you guys probably haven't heard about The Division? Every time some PvP player cries "OP," Massive devs just cave in and swing the nerf hammer. PvE ends up taking the hardest hit because of those...

Edited January 19, 2018 by vvhorus

[SenariousNex]

Warframe is fairly balanced compared to what it was in "press 4 to win" days.

 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

2 hours ago, vvhorus said:

 

Fixed it for you. I play and thoroughly enjoy Path of Exile. Since I don't frequent its forums or reddit, can't really say anything about its community, but, being an old school Diablo fan, I like the game.

On topic: you guys probably haven't heard about The Division? Every time some PvP player cries "OP," Massive devs just cave in and swing the nerf hammer. PvE ends up taking the hardest hit because of those...

Sounds like The Division has the same issue that WoW had in the early days, PvE and PvP stats and pretty much everything being shared between both modes so if you change an aspect to 1 game mode it affects the other. Well, it's a fault by default when you make a game with 2 completely different modes and have them use the same base, it breaks, we had that issue with the old Conclave which is why they had to add the damage reduction and then make the new Conclave that has it's own stats and even some unique abilities/mods (I think WoW changed the PvP to have it's own talents or something, I haven't played it in 10 years, but I do think that Tera has different stats and effects on the skills for PvP).

 

People tend to say that balance in PvE doesn't matter but sadly it does. Pretty much every single player game relies greatly on balance to be enjoyable and fun, it's not just the content being good, the balance has to be very good as well. RPG's are good examples of that, if it's badly balanced it will either be too easy or too hard, both extremes will diminish the enjoyment and quality of the game for most of the players. See FF6, the game is great but the last boss despite having a really good design and one of the best Themes in all FF games, it's just too easy and the greatest villain in FF games, Kefka, comes out as a punching bag with a great song playing in the background, the fight wasn't properly balanced to account with all the stuff the player gets before then, so it's just too easy and that really makes the last part feel meh (again the song, Dancing Mad pretty much saves it).

 

I don't mind nerfs when they are necessary, and usually the ones we get are necessary, I prefer that than seeing the game falling apart because the systems in place can no longer deal with the power being thrown at them, and the cost of rebalancing everything else instead of nerfing a couple of things is far too great for a dev to do so. I just don't like changes like what they did with the Quartakk, fixing the status procs was necessary but the stats change pretty much made it a different gun if you happened to like it's slow fire rate (for me that's a mechanical property that I liked, not just a stat that can increase damage, damage also increases damage), now it's just a generic semi auto which we already had 3 good options, the niche lost an option and the generic group that already had good weapons got a new entry, needlessly killing variety outside of an area that already had enough variety. Those that didn't like the Quartakk had other viable options, but instead they ended up ruining the gun for those that liked it and put effort on it because they couldn't handle a gun that didn't suit them and had to cry about it and sadly DE followed up and dug the grave.

Edited January 19, 2018 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[Errodin]

When it comes to DE i never feel the nerf is unnecessary, and 9/10 i find anything they change balances the game even further.  

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Ever played Destiny?

How about Overwatch?

Let's not forget ESO, DCUO, & The Divison.

Warframe's patches actually male my jaw drop because every patch has one thing that I am only use to seeing in FF14...

A list of Fixes & Bug Fixes that are legitimate.

[WARLOCKE]

If anything. DE can take way to long to nerf something. Look at how long the tonkor and simulor were broken, a very very long time. DE also has nerfed a few things to much (Garra, wrist laser *I forget the name:(* and Blade Storm. But in the end, I feel that overall they are one of the better devs in this department as more times than not the nerf is handled very well and they have tackled most issues. Now if they can give us some proper high level play id be very happy.

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

What was that ? Destiny 1 Wants its title for most nerfs back?

[TotallyLagging]

DE nerfs ain't that bad if you compare it to other games

 

like they let you play around with tonkor/synoid gammacor/shadow step for months and the only thing they've absolutely killed is gammacor. tonkor kinda lost to lenz and zarr now, but its damage is still very respectable. and it was never that good against armor to begin with. naramon SS turned from the one-trick broken ability to a decent melee/mobility tree

 

as for other games, literally go look for any competitive scene out there like mobas and fighting games

fighting games have nerfs nearly all the time, MKX being the prime example of constant balance changes. league of legends has quite possibly the most boring patch ever being played on a worlds championship due to a single overtuned item which was inevitably nerfed to oblivion. overwatch had so many nerfs that i won't bother listing them.

even PvE games like borderlands 2 aren't exempt and are far more impactful than any nerf DE has ever done. bee+CC anyone? evil smasher? that one time they nerfed Zer0's Death Bl0ss0m to oblivion before reverting it to a more reasonable level? how about destiny's gjallarhorn nerf? you want something slightly more obscure? freaking brutal legend had fire barons nerfed and the multiplayer wasn't even that active lol.

On 1/18/2018 at 11:09 AM, Spectre-8 said:

Terrible games with terrible communities .

>PoE
>terrible

there's a reason why they're literally right below warframe on the latest steam awards my dude

league is s**t though that I'll admit

Edited January 20, 2018 by TotallyLagging

[Kerberos-3]

MechWarrior Online. Never a patch in it's entire history where there wasn't at least one nerf to something. Not only that, but it's "Balancing Overlord" has a major reputation of either:

A) Nerfing too much,

B) not Nerfing enough,

c) Nerfing the wrong thing entirely.

Look at how they handled the Kodiak, a mech where one variant dominated the game for quite some time due to a certain build being bugged and a lot of potato play. First, they nerfed the weapons involved, which not only didn't do jack, but also caused game-wide detrimental consequences. Then, when they finally got round to nerfing the mech itself, they instigated a chassis-wide nerf that did not affect the offending variant much, but crippled the other variants, which were actually quite fair.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Kerberos-3

[Chipputer]

On 1/19/2018 at 12:09 PM, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

Those that didn't like the Quartakk had other viable options, but instead they ended up ruining the gun for those that liked it and put effort on it because they couldn't handle a gun that didn't suit them and had to cry about it and sadly DE followed up and dug the grave.

It literally doesn't play or feel any differently. They made the burst effectively shoot all 4 bullets at once, with a slow fire rate, so that it felt exactly zero different from what it felt before the changes.

The damage was, "lowered," but, effectively, was raised since the way the gun works was changed, mechanically, while the gun wasn't changed in the way it feels at all.

What are you talking about?

Edited January 20, 2018 by Chipputer

[phoenix1992]

I don't know how many games, you have played in your "mid 20's experience" but I wild guess is that most of them were not MMORPG, MOBA or shooters that are not rereleased each year (CoD and stuff).

 

[(XBOX)mickeyjuiceman]

Bungie nerfs things because they're fun for the playerbase, while Massive nerfs things because they have a terrible game design and have no idea what they're doing, and the underlying code was done by chimps.

[Tesseract7777]

People just notice the nerfs and buffs in Warframe more because DE communicates with us so much and constantly feedbacks with us, even if they don't do what we want. DE announces everything. 

A lot of other games actually do stealth nerf stuff, or they at least do it a lot more quietly. And they don't have real feedback process for you to complain, so you just have to suck it up, or not. You feel more powerless, less able to whine to the devs, and are more likely to just accept it. 

Especially if a game is competitive, they balance way more often and way harder than warframe gets balanced. This isn't an argument, it's just objective fact. 

If you think Warframe nerfs or buffs a lot more than other games, you are very, very mistaken. You either don't play as many games as you claim you do, or you do, but are not paying nearly as much attention to patch notes, nerfs and buffs, as you think you are. Warframe is really not a competitive game, it is a "play at your own pace" game. That means it gets balanced a lot less than most "living" games. And that's just a fact. 

You think Warframe is bad? Every time I log in to Heroes of the Storm I swear they have changed Malfurion's talents yet AGAIN. Warframe's nerf/buff cycle is so rare and well though out compared to the arbitrary, judicious and almost regularly expected nerfs that you see in most competitive games, especially MOBA's. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Tesseract7777

[WhiteCr0w]

On 1/17/2018 at 11:09 PM, Spectre-8 said:

Terrible games with terrible communities .

Which is sad in the case for Path of Exile, as GGG are great, standup Devs. I agree however, I don't think any game holds a candle to the amount of balance gymnastics League of Legends is subjected to.

[Spectre-8]

11 hours ago, TotallyLagging said:

DE nerfs ain't that bad if you compare it to other games

 

like they let you play around with tonkor/synoid gammacor/shadow step for months and the only thing they've absolutely killed is gammacor. tonkor kinda lost to lenz and zarr now, but its damage is still very respectable. and it was never that good against armor to begin with. naramon SS turned from the one-trick broken ability to a decent melee/mobility tree

 

as for other games, literally go look for any competitive scene out there like mobas and fighting games

fighting games have nerfs nearly all the time, MKX being the prime example of constant balance changes. league of legends has quite possibly the most boring patch ever being played on a worlds championship due to a single overtuned item which was inevitably nerfed to oblivion. overwatch had so many nerfs that i won't bother listing them.

even PvE games like borderlands 2 aren't exempt and are far more impactful than any nerf DE has ever done. bee+CC anyone? evil smasher? that one time they nerfed Zer0's Death Bl0ss0m to oblivion before reverting it to a more reasonable level? how about destiny's gjallarhorn nerf? you want something slightly more obscure? freaking brutal legend had fire barons nerfed and the multiplayer wasn't even that active lol.

>PoE
>terrible

there's a reason why they're literally right below warframe on the latest steam awards my dude

league is s**t though that I'll admit

The reason PoE is anywhere in general is that let's be honest Diablo 3 S#&$ the bed big time when they removed the auction house . People moved to PoE to get their online monopoly fix .

PoE's community is terrible and the game is freemium garbage where the monsters , mind you don't even fight back - everything there is walking experience in disguise and the devs nickle and dime you with " cosmetic " stash tabs . Get out of here GGG shill .

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Spectre-8

[kuciol]

1 hour ago, Spectre-8 said:

PoE's community is terrible and the game is freemium garbage where the monsters , mind you don't even fight back - everything there is walking experience in disguise and the devs nickle and dime you with " cosmetic " stash tabs . Get out of here GGG shill .

 

That statement clearly shows that you have never played PoE. Its even more f2p than warframe (you can buy only more stash tabs and cosmetics, thats everything there is to buy) and community is comparable to warframes, you will always find help if you ask.

[LupisV0lk]

If DE are nerfing and buffing, then people should look at PGI's "dart board of balance"

[Kerberos-3]

2 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

If DE are nerfing and buffing, then people should look at PGI's "dart board of balance"

Dude, I brought up MWO eight posts ago.

[LupisV0lk]

5 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Dude, I brought up MWO eight posts ago.

Sorry i clicked straight to page 2 and quickly went to the bottom.

[Kerberos-3]

1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said:

Sorry i clicked straight to page 2 and quickly went to the bottom.

Still worth noting. I forgot to mention Paul's favourite toy.

[LupisV0lk]

Just now, Kerberos-3 said:

Still worth noting. I forgot to mention Paul's favourite toy.

that'd be a salt shaker right? The newest patch notes are causing quite a intake in salt production.

[Kerberos-3]

1 minute ago, LupisV0lk said:

that'd be a salt shaker right? The newest patch notes are causing quite a intake in salt production.

Yeah. Also, lets not forget our "official" balance guy(HINT:he is just an anti-criticism shield).

[TotallyLagging]

3 hours ago, Spectre-8 said:

The reason PoE is anywhere in general is that let's be honest Diablo 3 S#&$ the bed big time when they removed the auction house . People moved to PoE to get their online monopoly fix .

PoE's community is terrible and the game is freemium garbage where the monsters , mind you don't even fight back - everything there is walking experience in disguise and the devs nickle and dime you with " cosmetic " stash tabs . Get out of here GGG shill .

 

 

? 

a single post = shill cool bro

[alfaomega04]

From all the time I've played, (and yes this is when nerfTrin tuesdays were a thing) I have seen WAY more buffs to weapons than nerfs. For frames however, I would say it seems about equal but most of the time they more of QoL while the nerfs usually were more in line to remove cheese tactics. 

The big nerfs I remember for weapons is the gammacor, tonkor, and simulor. And to be honest, I remember posting in or creating threads supporting AND advocating for each of those nerfs. Sure the community was completely salty after each of them, but the weapons were OP to begin with or somewhat gamebreaking in some way or other. 

On the other hand, for buffs, we have had a bunch of buffs for many a weapon during the normal patches as well as the huge reworks of shotguns and snipers (although the sniper rework was utterly underwhelming). 

As for investing time and materials into certain weapons only to be nerfed, all I can say is the nerfs usually take time to implement and it is more than worth it to invest those things into it, get plenty of use out of it, and simply move to next meta weapon once the changes happen. Keep in mind this is coming from someone with 7 forma on the tonkor, 6 on the synoid simulor, and around 4 on the regular simulor and synoid gammacor, all with potatoes. 

All in all, I can see why the nerfs happen, and not really against them.