Arca Plasmor Change

[Guest]

Pairing forced impact procs with almost-high base status chance, a single projectile, a 1.1 fire rate, and a 2.8 second reload does not make for a status weapon.  Given that you're firing a single projectile that hits each enemy once, you'll be lucky to get 1 proc per second per enemy.  That's on par with beam weapons, none of which are viable status weapons.  The only feasible status procs that operate at that rate are slash, gas, and viral.  Gas and viral both require armor to be non-existent, gas also needs headshots or stealth bonuses, viral usually only works well in conjunction with slash.  This gun definitely isn't procing slash, not even with Hunter Munitions, since it doesn't have high enough crit chance to make it consistent and warranted.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

it might have been not a good idea to make it capatable of this.

Why?  It's been 4 months since it was released to broad praise and comments that it was a very well designed, well balanced, strong-but-not-op weapon.  The headshot crits were known from the start as being a major factor in it's overall damage, and helped to offset the horrible handling characteristics of the gun.  How on Earth is it suddenly a bad idea?

[peterc3]

By nearly every definition, the Arca Plasmor is a status weapon. Your opinion is kind of irrelevant in the face of the people who designed it saying what it is.

[peterc3]

57 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

It soo easy to claim it wasnt intented to do such things, no need to dig data, design mails, copies from dev talks, just claim it was "fixed" because it was never "intented" to be this good.

Honestly it took them almost 4 months to see something what was found out in day 1, it WAS intented. It was not a bug, not a bad code, they designed it exactly this way and now they nerfed it because someone realized that it might have been not a good idea to make it capatable of this.

Should they take time and see how things play out or just rush to make changes?

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

By nearly every definition, the Arca Plasmor is a status weapon. Your opinion is kind of irrelevant in the face of the people who designed it saying what it is.

In shotgun terms and mechanics, by definition it isn’t a status weapon. It’s a pure damage weapon with feasible overall crit/status chance.

[Zeyez]

Arca Plasmor can deal status effect almost as easily as any normal status weapon

and can deal critical damage like any other weapon

 

what's the catch of Arca Plasmor, besides it has 1 projectile and slow fire rate/reload?

- forced impact proc on shots closer than half of the maximum reach (15 meters without mods, 21 with Fatal Acceleration)

- high status and critical chance per shot, which can be used on the next bonus right below

- capability to hit many enemies at once, dealing massive amount of status/criticals per shot, but at different enemies

- high damage per shot, which means, you can apply some deadly status procs per bullet with Gas, Toxin, Heat or even Slash (with Hunter Munition).

 

if you are complaining about this weapon being too slow for your taste... did you tried Harrow? its the perfect choice if you pretend to use this on small tileset missions

 

edit:

the gimmick behind Tigris Prime its about the fact that shotgun deals high amount of status procs on single target, which Corrosive can benefit the most, but Fire, Puncture, Impact... doesn't because they can't stack with itself

Arca Plasmor isn't single target status shotgun, its AoE status shotgun, perfect against crowds of enemies, even if you can simulate on other weapons by using punchthrought, Plasmor is massive, but because of that, isn't good against bosses or really high armored targets, for those, pick Tigris Prime (if they aren't immune against proc) or Corinth without Hunter Munition (if immune)

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Zeyez
like this topic, everything in the world can be changed, it just needs the right words... and the left ones too

[MirageKnight]

12 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

This gun definitely isn't procing slash, not even with Hunter Munitions, since it doesn't have high enough crit chance to make it consistent and warranted.

The definition of a status weapon is that it has decent to high status chance - especially when paired with dual stat mods. With dual stat mods, it's a really good status weapon.

Also, Hunter Munitions is made for weapons with a fairly decent chance of proc'ing crits - either due to high rate of fire, good innate chance or both. Plasmor's crit chance isn't all that great and the crit multiplier is meh.

Hate to say it, but your argument, in the face of facts, is rather weak.

[Maicael]

Don't see how stacking Radiation and Blast effects would help before they've expired. I'd also include Heat, Electricity, and Cold since they're still effective at slowing/disabling the enemy.

That leaves only Corrosive, Magnetic, Toxin, and Puncture.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

13 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Should they take time and see how things play out or just rush to make changes?

Should DE keep claiming that Warframe is forever in beta, or with the mass congregation of players communing and enjoying Warframe with its many updates and balance passes that it become finally recognized past beta status?

[Kurokoz]

Radiation and Viral is very nice to proc consistently due to its high status chance. Especially with that massive damage to pair with the viral proc. Not every status weapon needs to proc 10000 times a shot.

[Kurokoz]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

In shotgun terms and mechanics, by definition it isn’t a status weapon. It’s a pure damage weapon with feasible overall crit/status chance.

What is this definition?

[Guest]

Just now, Kurokoz said:

Radiation and Viral is very nice to proc consistently due to its high status chance. Especially with that massive damage to pair with the viral proc. Not every status weapon needs to proc 10000 times a shot.

There won't be massive damage without a headshot bonus.  You won't capitalize on that viral proc if you're slapping em with limp wrists.  Meanwhile, a lot of enemies are highly resistant to viral and radiation, and given the innate rad damage on the weapon, you'll proc rad far more often than you will viral.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Kurokoz said:

What is this definition?

A status shotgun will apply numerous status effects per shot to every enemy hit.  A tigris with some punch through can apply hundreds of status effects with a single shot.

[Kurokoz]

Just now, TheDefenestrater said:

There won't be massive damage without a headshot bonus.  You won't capitalize on that viral proc if you're slapping em with limp wrists.  Meanwhile, a lot of enemies are highly resistant to viral and radiation, and given the innate rad damage on the weapon, you'll proc rad far more often than you will viral.

Headshots are easy to hit, you are severely underestimating the plasmors damage, I gave examples of status procs not how the weapon is built (I've got 3 different build of status combinations) and you seem to be saying the Arca Plasmor does low damage rather than it not being a status weapon.

[Bobtm]

Plasmor is absolutely a status weapon.  While it won't do the multipellet shenanigans like a Tigris Prime does, Plasmor instead has the benefit of hitting a large cluster of foes at once.  Instead of layering tons of procs on one target, Plasmor spreads the love, fewer procs overall but on many more targets per shot.

With Radiation a shot into a crowd will suddenly make that crowd of enemies all turn on one another instantly.  Pretty sure that reliably causing status procs makes it a status weapon.

[Kurokoz]

It's simple. It has a high status chance which allows it to consistently proc statuses. Whether or not it procs a lot is irrelevant as it already functions differently than every other shotgun.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Kurokoz said:

Headshots are easy to hit, you are severely underestimating the plasmors damage, I gave examples of status procs not how the weapon is built (I've got 3 different build of status combinations) and you seem to be saying the Arca Plasmor does low damage rather than it not being a status weapon.

I have a cc / dmg riven.  I understand exactly what kind of an impact it can have.  It takes numerous headshots to kill high level, armored units.  At a quarter the damage, you may as well not even try if you're not getting headshots.  You're better off using your sidearm.

[DrBorris]

44 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Gas and viral both require armor to be non-existent, gas also needs headshots or stealth bonuses, viral usually only works well in conjunction with slash.

Umm, a Viral proc effectively doubles your DPS, regardless of armor. Yeah, armor is still a thing, so maybe you cater your build to stripping armor then use Plasmor's extremely high damage to shred.

 

2 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

There won't be massive damage without a headshot bonus.  You won't capitalize on that viral proc if you're slapping em with limp wrists.  Meanwhile, a lot of enemies are highly resistant to viral and radiation, and given the innate rad damage on the weapon, you'll proc rad far more often than you will viral.

And enemies resistant to Viral and Radiation? Wut? I guess the combo sucks poo against Infested but Viral/Rad has awesome bonuses for Corpus and Grineer, along with their proces being powerful (Alloy Armor, Robotic, Cloned Flesh and Flesh all take bonus damage).

 

Yeah, Plasmor sucks with Corrosive, but to say a weapon can be a status weapon if and only if it can proc a lot of Corrosive is BS.

[Budu]

Can we buff Lenz its not strong enough.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Budumpshh
sarcasm

[IceColdHawk]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb DrBorris:

Yeah, Plasmor sucks with Corrosive, but to say a weapon can be a status weapon if and only if it can proc a lot of Corrosive is BS.

Okay, let's pretend the arca plasmor is a "status weapon" then. Where is the advantage about it? The OP listed several reasons as to why the high status chance on the ARCA PLASMOR doesn't bring any notably advantages with it. In terms of procing status, it isn't much better than my viper wraith with it's measly 5% status. Sure, we can say it has high status therefore we can call it status weapon. But how is that any argument to get it's headshots nerfed when the status doesn't make any big difference? On the other hand though, while it can pierce through enemies, it pays for with a very slow fire and reload rate.

I also can't recall anyone complaining about arca plasmor being too strong or something (maybe because it wasn't?). Instead, i've seen so many people liking this weapon due to being DIFFERENT and USEFUL at the same time. Meanwhile, so many people complaining about dual daggers being worthless, the new telos boltace' effect being worthless, maiming strike being op, beam weapons needing a revisit. And what did we get? A nerf to a well-appreciated weapon.

Just why.

vor einer Stunde schrieb peterc3:

By nearly every definition, the Arca Plasmor is a status weapon. Your opinion is kind of irrelevant in the face of the people who designed it saying what it is.

So your argument is "The higher ups said it is so it is" while ignoring everything else the OP said. Wonderful example of a white knight. People who designed this weapon are only people as well. They can do mistakes as well. And the feedback forums exist to get them notified on mistakes and maybe get them to change/fix things up. If we just go and say "They said so. Deal with it." we might as well remove the feedback forums completely.

Edited January 27, 2018 by IceColdHawk

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

Plasmor is absolutely a status weapon.  While it won't do the multipellet shenanigans like a Tigris Prime does, Plasmor instead has the benefit of hitting a large cluster of foes at once.  Instead of layering tons of procs on one target, Plasmor spreads the love, fewer procs overall but on many more targets per shot.

With Radiation a shot into a crowd will suddenly make that crowd of enemies all turn on one another instantly.  Pretty sure that reliably causing status procs makes it a status weapon.

Put punch through on the Tigris and you'll proc dozens of status procs on however many enemies you can get into an infinitely long line.  The plasmor will still be limited to 1-2 procs per enemy over it's short projectile range.

Get up close and proc radiation on a group, and 90% of them will continue attacking you because you're close to them and you're damaging them.  They don't magically start ignoring you.  They will, however, be cut off from the benefits of their allies' auras.

14 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Umm, a Viral proc effectively doubles your DPS, regardless of armor. Yeah, armor is still a thing, so maybe you cater your build to stripping armor then use Plasmor's extremely high damage to shred.

And enemies resistant to Viral and Radiation? Wut? I guess the combo sucks poo against Infested but Viral/Rad has awesome bonuses for Corpus and Grineer, along with their proces being powerful (Alloy Armor, Robotic, Cloned Flesh and Flesh all take bonus damage).

Yeah, Plasmor sucks with Corrosive, but to say a weapon can be a status weapon if and only if it can proc a lot of Corrosive is BS.

Flesh and Cloned flash only take bonus damage if they're the only health type the enemy has.  As soon as they're protected by armor or shields, the entire health bar behaves like the shielding health type.  Even if a bombard is vulnerable to radiation, the damage is still heavily mitigated by the fact that it's armor.  If anything, be happy if you break even.

I'd like running it as a gas proc machine. But, gas procs need headshot or stealth multipliers, and they really don't do well vs armor.or supporting auras.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

If there would be anything that would be changed that directly involves the Atterax, I hope it's the Alt Attack Damage of all whips. Why do momentum based weapons like whips have the same spin attack multiplier as a solid sword?

If attacking using the whip involves spinning it around, spinning it around while sliding on the ground shouldn't add much to it. I'd like to see the damage multiplier for the slide attacks of whips be lowered from 2.14x to 1.6x, Wall attacks from 4x to 3x, and Slam attacks from 2.0x to 1.5x

Edited January 27, 2018 by A-Midnight-Shanking

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Okay, let's pretend the arca plasmor is a "status weapon" then

Except we don't have to...because it is very much a status weapon - or at least it can built as such. But I guess a 72.9% status chance with Hell's Chamber and one dual stat mod alone won't be good enough for you...so let's try 96%.

That's so a status weapon. I'll be giving that some Forma to that soon so I can add in a properly buffed Primed Point Blank.

4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

If we just go and say "They said so. Deal with it." we might as well remove the feedback forums completely.

False Dilemma or Slippery Slope Fallacy...I can't decide which but it's one of those two.

4 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

People who designed this weapon are only people as well. They can do mistakes as well.

Exactly. They realized they made a mistake only recently (better late than never) and decided to fix it. So good for them.

Edited January 28, 2018 by MirageKnight

[IceColdHawk]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb MirageKnight:

We don't have to...because it is. But I guess a 72.9% status chance with Hell's Chamber and one dual stat mod alone won't good enough for you...so let's try 96%.

That's so a status weapon. I'll be giving that some Forma to that soon so I can add in a properly buffed Primed Point Blank.

False Dilemma or Slippery Slope Fallacy...I can't decide which but it's one of those two.

Exactly. They realized they made a mistake only recently (better late than never) and decided to fix it. So good for them.

Can't tell if you're being serious or not. You're just as blind as the last guy i quoted. "Look brothers! High status chance number! This must be so OP with status!". We've been explaining why it isn't and yet you go on and keep saying that. What do you want with that high of a status chance? Keep refreshing the rad procs instead of getting enemies dead or what? Don't get me started on magnetic....Oh toxin. I assume it's a corpus build (sherlock). Even then, i'd advise you to go for crit and use both toxin mods for WAY higher toxin damage or even better, straight gas. Since it's full elemental, you won't proc "wasted procs" like impact or puncture (aside from the innate impact proc thingy) so it doesn't even require that high of a status chance to get your elementals out.

And i also see you're sacrificing 2 mods slots (Spazz and Acceleration) for QoL. Something that this weapons LACKS for the sake of balance since it comes with innate punch through. So please tell me again why it was so urgent to remove it's high level damage potential?

Edited January 27, 2018 by IceColdHawk

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

Okay, let's pretend the arca plasmor is a "status weapon" then. Where is the advantage about it? The OP listed several reasons as to why the high status chance on the ARCA PLASMOR doesn't bring any notably advantages with it. In terms of procing status, it isn't much better than my viper wraith with it's measly 5% status. Sure, we can say it has high status therefore we can call it status weapon. But how is that any argument to get it's headshots nerfed when the status doesn't make any big difference? On the other hand though, while it can pierce through enemies, it pays for with a very slow fire and reload rate.

I also can't recall anyone complaining about arca plasmor being too strong or something (maybe because it wasn't?). Instead, i've seen so many people liking this weapon due to being DIFFERENT and USEFUL at the same time. Meanwhile, so many people complaining about dual daggers being worthless, the new telos boltace' effect being worthless, maiming strike being op, beam weapons needing a revisit. And what did we get? A nerf to a well-appreciated weapon.

Just why.

So your argument is "The higher ups said it is so it is" while ignoring everything else the OP said. Wonderful example of a white knight. People who designed this weapon are only people as well. They can do mistakes as well. And the feedback forums exist to get them notified on mistakes and maybe get them to change/fix things up. If we just go and say "They said so. Deal with it." we might as well remove the feedback forums completely.

This ^