Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Miser_able]

Riddle me this, how can you complain about something that hasn't even come out yet? 

[SHADOW.XIII]

why not make "WoF range decrease/damage increase" an Ember WoF augment mod?

[K0bra]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Miser_able:

Riddle me this, how can you complain about something that hasn't even come out yet? 

Maybe by reading what they are changing and the demonstration from the livestream?

[lol.systema]

I love Ember and even though I don't agree with the nerf, I can understnad DE's position.

 

I'm fairly new to Warframe and I just forma'd Ember to set up a stronger build. Can you share the build you're gonna use in the future?

[Trichouette]

à l’instant, SHADOW.XIII a dit :

why not make "WoF range decrease/damage increase" an Ember WoF augment mod?

Because this incoming change is also supposed to prevent her from running WoF forever

 

[VRKestrel]

Boy oh boy, I can't wait to get my hands on these frames after the tweaks/reworks :D

 

Just for clarification though: Are the changes mentioned in this thread the only things that get changed about these specific frames? Personally, I think this would be a great opportunity to "finish up" these frames for good :O 

In case anyone wonders, here are some of my suggestions:

Ash:

- Maybe add some (more) punchthrough to shuriken ? (Have the augment strip armor of each enemy hit by the same shuriken?)

- Have "Teleport" increase your finisher animation speed?

Mag:

- make it impossible for enemies to leave a magnetize bubble (even with pull; maybe remove/decrease suction outside of bubble for balancing?)

Atlas:

- have "Petrify" heal tectonics? (over time of course)

These are just some of the suggestions I can think of, off the top of my head.

Anyway, fantastic work as always :D I'm super excited for whenever these changes go live :D

Lok heb DE! 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 minutes ago, K0bra said:

Maybe by reading what they are changing and the demonstration from the livestream?

Edited February 4, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Miser_able]

7 minutes ago, K0bra said:

Maybe by reading what they are changing and the demonstration from the livestream?

Oh yeah, like that's worked in the past. 

[phoenix1992]

9 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Riddle me this, how can you complain about something that hasn't even come out yet? 

Riddle me that - who gave you the authority to diminish feedback?

This is outside of the facts that:

a) Rebeca displayed the build.
b) You can mimic the build effect in the game right now.

[peterc3]

It's almost as if DE waits to get data and then starts looking for things that work outside their expectations/specs for how something is supposed to work. Then they start working on ways to change it. If they did many, small changes to every frame/weapon there would be nothing else released.

[schilds]

6 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

-Range shrinks for damage dealt.  Okay, highly detrimental to her survival and ability to get in and deal damage.
-Both energy increase and range decrease for damage dealt. Problem. Definitely an overall, major decrease in her survivability, and thus, ability to deal damage passively and actively.  I expect a nerf, but affecting her survivability by tampering with the range without much of an upside isn't a nice move.  I play, I'm pretty sure, the way DE wants Ember played  - a lethal damage dealer at close range.  Running 145% range protects me fairly well 80% of the time, but basically having 83% range is...pretty lethal without any compensation.  Sure, having a 100% power increase is nice, and I'll have to decrease power and increase range which...ironically will cause me to do more of what DE doesn't want (disrupt long range) so that I can do what they intend me to do (burn with horrifying damage).

This is not much different from what everyone else is saying. The difference between each individual's final assessment of the change is whether they think they'll be able to compensate for it or not.

Edited February 4, 2018 by schilds

[.Fire_Fly.]

I miss her over heat power back in the past 

[(PSN)Lostmuppet]

And what do u do without WoF, especially with its increased energy drain?

[Maka.Bones]

7 hours ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

The problemy is DE's lack of knowledge of geometry.

The area of a circle is calculated as radius^2 x π

Which means that if you halve the radius, the area gets 4 times smaller.

This is just a change done without thinking at effective results but just with plain numbers.

A radius of 10 meters creates an area of 314 square meters, a range of 5 meters creates an area of 78,5 square meters...the difference is abysmal.

Going for a 25% radius reduction would have been just more wise geometrically speaking

A radius of 7,5 meters covers an area of 176,625 square meters that would be more or less half the area of the 10 meters radius

PS. Pointed this out through Community Inbox

This^ 

[Miser_able]

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Riddle me that - who gave you the authority to diminish feedback?

This is outside of the facts that:

a) Rebeca displayed the build.
b) You can mimic the build effect in the game right now.

I wouldn't call most of these threads "feedback". Some are, and that's great. But most of the ones I've seen boil down to "DE SUX, THIS NERF SUX, I QUIT" 

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Honestly it doesn't really surprise me anymore. Not to say anything negative about DE, but it's just a nice idea to have them consult a large player base that has spent extensive time playing a particular frame. Like send out an in game email to those who meet a particular threshold and talk to them, get their input yenno? 

Or they could even make use of this thing called the design council they started for what I assume were situations like this....

[Zwillan]

Since they're making some changes to mag soon, I thought now would be a good time to throw out and idea I've had for mag's crush ability.

To add some scaling/synergy to crush, it would be cool if mag's pull ability could throw enemies affected by crush towards where ever the player is aiming and do damage based on a percentage of each affected enemies health if they collide with something/someone.

This would also synergize well with her magnetize ability because you would be able to throw more enemies into the bubble therefore giving mag better CC.

Thoughts?

[phoenix1992]

Just now, Miser_able said:

I wouldn't call most of these threads "feedback". Some are, and that's great. But most of the ones I've seen boil down to "DE SUX, THIS NERF SUX, I QUIT" 

Most topics were merged into the  " Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited"" and lost a lot of context, so I would not ask of you to go and define which feedback is good and which is not. But do mind that usually statements  like "DE suxs" are ridiculed, regardless of the source.

[phoenix1992]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Or they could even make use of this thing called the design council they started for what I assume were situations like this....

Don't bring in the TDC into that, they already have way too much undeserved heat from the community.

[Maka.Bones]

I would've liked sentinels having innate vaccum, if they did a 75% meter range nerf instead. (what i mean, is reducing the range by 25%... to have 75% of original range... which amount to be half of the original range, by meters^2 

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Were you even around when they made Sentinels have innate Vacuum? It’s the same thoughtlessness here when they reduced the range of the vacuum without accounting for the massive reduction in square meters it succumbed to.

 

[JalakBali]

But how else would I play this game without aiming and ignoring everything except the waypoint?

[PatternistSlave]

23 minutes ago, Rest_In_Pieces said:

she already sucked for anything except low level extermination/defense missions, so not much harm done.

You could use her augment as a CC tool to make her alright for higher leveled content.  The change as it stands would make her useless for everything.

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

26 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

DE really caved into the whiners because ember could do what a mirage and an ignis have been able to do from day one, (or almost any frame with an ignis and a faster running speed than you had) - which is to get ahead of you and kill things before you got there, even through walls.

The nerf to ember isn't about the just the flat numbers which seem to balance out but about the survivability of ember. DE even says right there in the notation on ember that she was supposed to be a DPS frame that was squishy, but WOF was the only thing keeping ember alive. Turn it off in ANY endless mission past wave 20/ 20 min and you are just on the ground, perpetually. To remove the range and double the damage means that you will now be killed by the enemy shooting at you from outside of your WOF range and will never actually get hit by the increased damage.

This is just a straight up nerf to ember that will make her all but useless. Clearly the goal was to reduce the speed at which ember could kill - otherwise there would be no nerf, DE says this is the reason, so it is a given that this change is intended to reduce her damage output, but they gave her back nothing in the way of helping her survive. If she was high DPS but squishy, you can't lower her DPS without taking away some squishiness - unless of course you think ember was an OP frame - which nobody does. She has 2 near usless abilities that could have been reworked as part of a rework of ember, but to simply nerf WOF while leaving everything else alone doesn't make sense.

Nerfing ember while leaving stasis on limbo (a true troll and fun nerfing ability) and leaving Octavia as massively OP as she is just seems like DE is caving those who whined. Ember is a great early frame for new players and continues to be at least fun for veterans, and if nothing else a decent farming frrame, but this nerf will no doubt leave her on the junk pile. The nerf is ill conceived from top to bottom. Reducing her damage area to 1/4 what it was is mindboggling, regardless of the increased power in that tiny range. Ember will not be able to stay on her feet.

 

I'll never understand why DE can't make SMALL CHANGES, and then come back and make more small changes. Why do weapons and frames have to be nuke hammered from usable to virtually unusable (see simulor/tonkor/ash BS), instead of taken down a tiny bit and then other tiny bit and then another tiny bit until you arrive at a good place.

 

PS - DE... can I get my only eidolon lens that I put on ember back as part of the nerf at least?

I want a refund on the plat I spent for her Vermillion skin a couple weeks ago.  If I knew these changes I would not have purchased.  I bet there are a fair few who bought Ember in trading for 800 to 1000 olat would like their money back now as well.  All this nerf whiners need to come to grips with the fact that some pay real world money for things to enjoy.

[ChromaUmbra]

I'm not going to complain about the damage nerf.  That was expected and could be seen coming from a mile away.  The armor part, on the other hand, really did not need a nerf.  Chroma still needs to take damage to get his damage buff, so having decent survivability is pretty much necessary for him.  Judging from the math in the other thread, this could cut his survivability down to less than half of what it is now.  If there is no way of nerfing the damage part of vex armor without nerfing the armor part, please consider giving Chroma something else to make up for it so that he can keep at least some of his survivability.

[DeathshotSE]

Buffs and positive changes like Ash's Bladestorm are always welcome on under-utilized abilities.

Regarding some of the nerfs:

• Chroma's Vex armor :
  • I think it is reasonable. It will still do lots of damage, but not as insane as before.
• Banshee's Resonating Quake :
  • I never quake farm anything. At most, I use it to do area denial for mobile defense. I like this playstyle change, but I wish this change was for the original ability, not the augment. Have the original ability be some deployable as described, but maybe the augment can let you stack them like Vauban's vortex augment. Maybe stacking allows larger range and more damage, but duration remains the same.
• Ember's World on Fire :
  • The change does not seem like it would properly address the issue. It just makes it more difficult to achieve the same results as before. Players can still mod for high range to passively kill enemies albeit for less damage which can simply be substituted with accelerant's damage bonus. If it chews through more energy, players can toggle off WoF, spam energy pads, then get right back into it. This will either make players reach for a different frame with the same results or build to achieve the same results as before.

EDIT: When I think about it some more, what is the point of Ember's World on Fire changing its base stat over 15 seconds. What usage can people get for having World on Fire on for the first 10 seconds. Why not just change the base stats so that damage is double, range is half, and energy consumption is double? Players will just have to hit ability every couple seconds to keep the original stats. At that point, I'd probably add Natural Talent to speed up my ability spamming. Obviously this is all speculation, but it is something to consider. I'm hoping the changes will be fun and not just an inconvenience.

Edited February 4, 2018 by DeathshotSE