Ember Won't Be Viable Until Some Changes Are Made

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, BigPapiPimp said:

But with ember my hopes there would be more panic and fire.

Oh shoot! You mean an actual mosh lol! Yeah that's why I wanted heatdrive + a burst version of WoF. 

 + 

 

[BigPapiPimp]

9 hours ago, Faaaiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee said:

Make her 1 become Fire Ball Barrage, with the buff you suggested.

3-9 fireballs will spawn during cast and follow the primary fireball.

Bruh, what if her 4 made your fireballs stronger, then you could get oiled up with accelerant for more cast speed, and fling so many big balls of Fire you’d turn Warframe into a Michael Bay movie.

[BigPapiPimp]

10 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Oh shoot! You mean an actual mosh lol! Yeah that's why I wanted heatdrive + a burst version of WoF. 

I just don’t miss the days of overheat ember, and I’m a stickler for DR sources in general. I liked your idea to give one of her ability’s a boost to parkour velocity and make it deal damage though.

Maybe give it to WoF, since it already gives a speed buff. She could poop out Fireblast’s whenever she jumps.

Edited March 16, 2018 by BigPapiPimp

[Maka.Bones]

16 minutes ago, BigPapiPimp said:

I just don’t miss the days of overheat ember, and I’m a stickler for DR sources in general. I liked your idea to give one of her ability’s a boost to parkour velocity and make it deal damage though.

Maybe give it to WoF, since it already gives a speed buff. She could poop out fireblasts whenever she jumps.

But the heatdrive wouldn't give DR. It's just an i-frame window, while she's in animation. What I suggested to have DR, is the fireblast ring (since it's immobile)

Pretty good idea about pooping fireblasts when she jumps though xD. srsly, that would be a fun use of the circles it leaves behind. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[BigPapiPimp]

23 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

But the heatdrive wouldn't give DR. It's just an i-frame window, while she's in animation. What I suggested to have DR is the fireblast ring (since it's immobile)

Pretty good idea about pooping fireblasts when she jumps though xD. srsly, that would be a fun use of the circles it leaves behind. 

Thanks for reminding me!

I’m turning into an old man though, I don’t like these young punk Atlas’ and Excal’s jumping all over my lawn with their I-frames either!

I really like your parkour idea though.

Maybe she could even drop a fire blasts when she lands.

Turn heavy impact and ice spring into part of her 4, but with Fireblasts... cuz she’s a fire-blastey kinda frame...

Edited March 16, 2018 by BigPapiPimp

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, BigPapiPimp said:

I’m turning into an old man, I don’t like these young punk Atlas’ and Excal’s jumping all over my lawn with their I-frames either.

I really like the parkour idea though.

Maybe she could even drop a fire blasts when she lands.

Turn heavy impact and ice spring into part of her 4, but with Fire... cuz she’s a fire frame...

lol fair enough. 

And yeah, those would also be fun alternatives.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

The state that you left Ember in is quite... embarrassing, to say the least. It's actually insulting to the players that love Ember that you just "attempt" to revisit her and then let her rot without actually fixing her issues. This is actually a problem. While I do like what you guys have been doing this year, fixing all the issues by rebuilding everything from the ground-up, you're moving way too fast, and some things are being left behind in the end, one of those being Ember.

And on top of that, my salt has reached almost-- unfathomable levels with the recent Saryn changes and all of her buffs. So here's what I think, I know you guys like to design your Frames your way, but you guys need to stop and listen to your players, and I don't mean the vocal majority (because look what happened to Zephyr's Tail Wind and Dive Bomb), I mean the calculated minority who has great ideas! And if you can't take this up I just have one question for you guys...

How long are you just gonna' let Ember rot?

Spoiler

Everyone has good ideas for Ember changes, just look at some of these:

 

 

[(PSN)TheRealTommo]

I can't remember the last time I used Ember... Sad really.

[Sormaran]

Fun part is that DE aimed to remove "Ult and bulletjump through the mission" playstyle and that havent changed a bit. But they succeded in removin any and all utility of the frame, hence why ember is just a meme now to play only on missions where they wanted to limit her power or, as DE said(more or less, maybe even exact quote): "everything under lvl30". And not a word since, guess ember is all fine. 😐

[(XBOX)Skullstachio]

Last time there was an ember thread. This was my suggestion/comment:

Personally, Embers passive is what really needs working because, lets be honest here, who in the right mind is gonna set themselves on fire or even get set on fire by bad guys just for extra fire damage and energy regeneration if people know it is only going to nearly get them killed right? Really "This" should be more viable.

Passive: Fuel for the Fire.

• Fire procs from weapons and embers abilities temporarily build up energy, at maximum threshold, that built up energy causes ember to burst into flames, granting enhanced fire damage, energy regeneration & resistance to fire damage for a few seconds.
  • when Ember bursts into flames, She deals 100% extra fire damage from all sources (namely her abilities and any weapons that deal fire damage) that slowly degrades over time, she regenerates 10 energy per second from which the energy per second also degrades and she also takes 80% less fire damage which too degrades over time.
  • dealing fire damage while the passive is active will keep her flames from dying out.
  • should certain enemies be foolish to deal fire damage to ember while she is alight will only keep her flames from dying out.

if embers passive was like this, she may very well be slightly ever more viable for those high-end missions.

This suggestion could very well bring ember back to some "Degree."

 

[LSG501]

Well.... it took roughly a year for DE to attempt a fix on the ash rework so at best you got a while to wait lol...

[xXDeadsinxX]

I doubt that they’ll change her anytime soon, they nerfed the Synoid Simulor a long time ago and you don’t see anyone using it that much anymore, same for the Tonkor, Telos Boltace etc. The last time they touched those weapons is when they nerfed them into the ground since they were broken weapons, same exact thing happened to Ember, they nerfed her and probably won’t look at her in a long long time.

Edited May 21, 2018 by xXDeadsinxX

[Black_Wyvern]

I'd gladly take an Ember Rework to get her viable even if it pushes back dragonguy prime. I want her to be useful so much..
'Only good under level 30' isn't a good design plan. Every frame should be viable at any level.

[Djego27]

Yeah they buffed Saryn to be a bit more competitive to Ember against armor at higher levels at expense of removing the most powerful damage feature on the frame(the AOE toxic dot transfer). It is not even clear what your issue is with the Ember, outside of the obvious thing that you do not like pressing the 4 button all that much, given that it is the only thing that really changed(beside of the massive damage buff with the weapon changes, not that it even matters given that Ember has plenty of dps for all content you could play).

Edited May 21, 2018 by Djego27

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

8 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Yeah they buffed Saryn to be a bit more competitive to Ember against armor at higher levels at expense of removing the most powerful damage feature on the frame(the AOE toxic dot transfer). It is not even clear what your issue is with the Ember, outside of the obvious thing that you do not like pressing the 4 button all that much, given that it is the only thing that really changed(beside of the massive damage buff with the weapon changes, not that it even matters given that Ember has plenty of dps for all content you could play).

What are you talking about...?

[ljmadruga]

9 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Yeah they buffed Saryn to be a bit more competitive to Ember against armor at higher levels at expense of removing the most powerful damage feature on the frame(the AOE toxic dot transfer). It is not even clear what your issue is with the Ember, outside of the obvious thing that you do not like pressing the 4 button all that much, given that it is the only thing that really changed(beside of the massive damage buff with the weapon changes, not that it even matters given that Ember has plenty of dps for all content you could play).

Wow, a low level fissure lasting only 2 rotations on the starchart.

Nice

Truly “Massive” Damage.

Her damage is negligible at best in higher levels (see: armor) and she goes down if an enemy even glances in her general direction thanks to the range reduction on her 4.

Accelerant is decent for the damage buff and some cc, but one good power does not make a good frame. Even when comparing to other damage frames, Ember falls way short.

Mesa, for example, can deal truly ludicrous amounts of damage that can completely mitigate armor that is only limited by line of sight. She has a damage reduction through her 3.

Octavia has infinitely scaling damage through her 1. She can turn invisible.

Even Equinox, who has more range on her 4 at base, has a damage reduction through pacify.

[Djego27]

I am talk about a whine thread that lacks any kind of substance, written by people that do for the most part not even utilize Embers main damage feature at all(hint you do not do your damage with WoF on Ember), complaining about what is effectively 5-10 more button presses per minute.

The pictures are actually from a 50 wave grenier relict defence Ember vs Saryn for dps just to show you where the frame now is after the changes, that I for myself do not even like that much, given that I actually like the AOE wipe via toxic transfers over the new version of tickling the hole map to death with corrosive procs.

il y a 2 minutes, ljmadruga a dit :

Wow, a low level fissure lasting only 2 rotations on the starchart.

Nice

Truly “Massive” Damage.

Her damage is negligible at best in higher levels (see: armor) and she goes down if an enemy even glances in her general direction thanks to the range reduction on her 4.

Accelerant is decent for the damage buff and some cc, but one good power does not make a good frame. Even when comparing to other damage frames, Ember falls way short. 

Mesa, for example, can deal truly ludicrous amounts of damage that can completely mitigate armor that is only limited by line of sight. She has a damage reduction through her 3. 

Octavia has infinitely scaling damage through her 1. She can turn invisible. 

Even Equinox, who has more range on her 4 at base, has a damage reduction through pacify. 

It is 10 rotations(50 waves) and frames like Mesa, Octavia or Equinox are certainly not good benchmarks to balance anything, given that they are fairly bad design and horrible balanced. If you believe that Ember has issues against armor then you should probably look into status mechanics, given that I do not share this opinion and I main Ember since 2014. If anything Ember is probably the most effective frame in the game against armor that does not need armor ignore on a ability or a augment for it, what is mostly the result of how corrosive/fire modded status weapons interact with Accelerant on Ember.

[Synpai]

*Dusts off Ember Rework from 2015*

NOTE: UNLESS DE MADE THE NUMBERS, THEY ARE JUST PLACEHOLDER; IT IS MY BELIEF THAT TESTING IS THE ONLY SURE WAY TO KNOW WHAT VALUES WORK, AS SUCH I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO A "NUMBERS GAME" DEBATE.

0. Passive: Ignition - Ember no longer takes damage from heat procs, instead she gains 35% Ability Strength and regenerates 10 points of energy and health for every second she’s ablaze. Embers abilities have a 25% chance to set her ablaze (This is all the passive really needs: A way for players to actually trigger it without killing themselves).

1. Ability 1: Pyronic Scourge - Ember unleashes a wave of fire in a cone dealing X% (cap scales; flames die after dealing capped damage) current health over 5 seconds. Enemies within the range of the affected target after .5~1s have a chance to be ignited. Can be charged (affected by cast speed) to travel a further distance.

• Augment: Erosion
  • Affected enemies instead have their armor removed over the burning; Significantly reduced damage dealt

2. Ability 2: Overheat - Briefly stun (open to finishers) nearby enemies with strong accelerant. If the enemy is on fire, they are instead knocked down and dealt the remaining heat damage immediately. 
Increases all fire damage dealt (based on the heat damage consumed), energy cost, and cast speed of next ability cast. 

The next ability ember casts in X seconds will have additional affects for half the duration:

1.      A second wave returns to Ember after the first that consumes the fire.
2.      Does not affect itself
3.      At the end of the duration ember will release a wave similar to fire eximus that deals damage multiplied by unique (doesn't count the same enemy twice) enemies pulled
4.      Ember and her allies cause enemies to explode on death dealing damage in an area as blast (double range with melee)

3. Ability 3: Inferno - After a short channel Ember surrounds herself in a continuous flame vortex pulling enemies close to her on cast. The vortex deals X-Y damage per second to enemies depending on how close they are to Ember. (Think flat + horizontal vortex )

-Duration is locked at increments of 3 (up to 9 or 12; minimum 3s)

• Augment: Eternal Hell
  • Pulls enemies every 3 seconds.

4. Ability 4: World on Fire - Ember envelops herself and nearby allies in flames. All those affected gain:

+X% movement speed

+Y% fire damage ( or chance to add fire damage)

+Z% armor

They also gain effects based on Ember's active abilities (25% of the effect):

In other words:

1.       During the duration of Pyronic Scourge, Ember’s allies have a chance to ignite enemies that come into contact with them
2.       If Ember gets 50% cast speed and 25% bonus to fire damage, allies get 12.5% cast speed and 6.25% fire damage increase
3.       Ember's allies have smaller vortexes that deal less damage.
4.       They receive the full effect

These flames don't have a duration, instead they have health (like iron skin); once the health is gone for a person, WoF effects are lost for them (not for everyone).

• Augment: Slow Burn
  • Fire damage dealt while WoF is active slows enemies.

 

Will take another look after work, but this is a slightly improved version of the concept from long ago.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Synpai

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I have to agree on all of your points, ArtPrince17! I've said on a few other threads that Ember's WoF is terrible as of now! 

I wish her World on Fire was reverted to pre 2018 rework, but the damage it did was scaled to the enemy's health, but that damage would be increased per tick by strength mods. 

The more heat status taken by a target would stack and each stack would multiply heat damage done. The same would also apply to Ember's Acceralant power; multiplying heat damage each time. 

Her passive should also grant her immunity to heat damage while she is on fire as well. 

Ember is unintuitive to use right now and it's really upsetting to see such a "hot" Frame to be so unused! 

Edited May 21, 2018 by (XB1)ZenithLord 42
Ember

[Djego27]

To iterate a bit, you point out that the state of Ember is insulting to the players of her. This is not true, given that WoF used to have a even shorter duration in high level builds and was barely used at all there back in the days(the long cast animation made it a death trap). All things considered you can just replace all "Ember" with "WoF" in your post and you have a much more accurate complain, given that this is all you complain about.

This took nothing for me away from playing the frame, given that I as well could crush spam 20 waves with my mag at lower levels without making complains that this does not work at L100 and WoF was before the toggle change a fairly good ability for solo play and continues to be after the recent changes, assuming you do not to 100% relay on this one ability to do damage(if so, laughs on you, because you do pathetic low dps with your damage frame).

Also DE is not moving way to fast, given DEs motivation to change stuff is a different one then the player base has they just moving at a speed that makes sense to them. The saryn changes might look awesome for people that never learned to play the frame like it was the past 2 years. In my honest opinion it is a fairly boring rework and killed most of fun and AOE nuking on it.

As for your rework suggestion. Stop quoting the nonsense DE posted and claim that there is a deeper meaning, it is absolute 100% nonsense written by somebody that has no idea how Ember works, what kind of matches the community opinion.

The passive can be good for some added dps in combination with weapons that put fire procs on you, but overall it is niche and not that good. With your suggestion it would add some CC, CC you already have assuming you know where your left mouse button is(or whatever it is on a console controller) and bring a weapon that does it. Big whoop. It is overall meh and will continue to be so, given that Ember does not really need any kind of super passive to be good and both DE as well as the community is not really that creative.

Also please do not suggest this promotes people putting heat on her weapons, people do not do this since years, throwing 90% of her damage output just out of the window because they do not know how accelerant works(else they would probably stopped complaining about the damage by now).

Accelerant stun is affect by knock-down recovery like every other soft CC in the game and there is nothing wrong with it. What is a problem however is that enemy animations override the effect, a thing DE did not address since years, given that hardly somebody complains about it since it only shows if you do not cheese but actually play at higher levels with frames that do not posses pseudo god mod and actually require her CC to stay alive. Opening up enemy units for finishers is utterly stupid(same as it is on Inaros) because it trivializes the game to uncanny levels. To go a step further it does not even work on Ember, given the fire proc overrides this and you can hardly do a swing on stuff with Ember without lighting it up on fire with a melee weapon that is suitable to work on the frame past L100.

Fire Blast:

The main issue is that the hole ring is not on fire, this would make it ok for giving the defence target and you some breathing room at higher levels.

As for your suggestions, why does Fire Blast need armor strip? Ember does not need that, the only reason you and a lot of the community would want it is because you do not understand how the frame you want to change works. Nearly every unit with armor in the game is fairly weak against fire damage(what Ember has more then any other frame in the game) assuming you rip off that armor with a status weapon. Guess how man people use a status weapon on Ember at high levels? Yes exactly, next to non, instead you where terrorised by Fire quake + Ignis garbage builds in your sorties, acting like a massive team damage de buff and a utterly joke when it comes to damage frames. This is the public level of player skill on Ember and this should change first, because I am 100% sure that the feedback about the frame would then also change for the better. However it did not, people just stopped playing Ember, what is still a big improvement given how terrible they where with the frame.

WoF

WoF is CC for the most part, while it can be used to clear lower levels like the 4. ability on most other frames it does not really fall out of line with that, given that there is no real reason to do so. Adding 100% more fire damage to everything is a stupid high damage buff, you would probably know that if you would know that Ember does as damage frame.

As well as it is to add a AOE blind to Ember(that believe it or not gets overwritten by fire procs). Giving Ember back damage reduction is also stupid, if you want to do something productive for the game ask for capping damage scaling and nerfing stupid levels of EHP on some frames. The mechanic is years old, a time where frames other then Ember actually did really struggle with the damage of her bolter prime and soma long before everything one hits you, fast forward to today, sortis are a joke without any damage buffs given the currently fairly broken weapon damage and can be played like low level missions assuming you use a tanking frame.

All things considered, assuming you love Ember beyond WoF(what I doubt, only a very very small number of people her on the forums do) I would suggest you actually learn how the frame works before suggesting changes. You and a lot of other people might think I am a elitist or internet bully when it comes to Ember, however the point is I am not, just do not get it.

You suggest pressing 2 and the E should kill any unit(what it actually does far beyond sori levels). Then you suggest pressing 3 should reduce armor, even if the main damage on your 2 is now armor ignore(wtf)? Then you suggest that pressing 4 should do massive damage with another option to just press E with a lot more effort then just pressing 2 and doing the same(wtf again)? It does not make any sense to me, probably a lot less to somebody that actually would have the task to sit down and code that nonsense over a week, just to change that a bit after, given that some people would realize that it is just stupid.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Djego27

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

8 hours ago, Djego27 said:

I am talk about a whine thread that lacks any kind of substance, written by people that do for the most part not even utilize Embers main damage feature at all(hint you do not do your damage with WoF on Ember), complaining about what is effectively 5-10 more button presses per minute.

It's not a whine thread at all. I don't recall saying "omG De plZ MAkE EmbER JuST AS BoRING aS BEfoRE, We LoVE WorLD oN FIRe LiKE iT WAs!"

I'm bringing up genuine concerns, concerns many, many players are thinking.

8 hours ago, Djego27 said:

The pictures are actually from a 50 wave grenier relict defence Ember vs Saryn for dps just to show you where the frame now is after the changes, that I for myself do not even like that much, given that I actually like the AOE wipe via toxic transfers over the new version of tickling the hole map to death with corrosive procs.

Nope, I'm not basing any of my judgement off of screenshots. Saryn could been doing pretty much melee only the entire time and I wouldn't know.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, Djego27 said:

To iterate a bit, you point out that the state of Ember is insulting to the players of her. This is not true, given that WoF used to have a even shorter duration in high level builds and was barely used at all there back in the days(the long cast animation made it a death trap). All things considered you can just replace all "Ember" with "WoF" in your post and you have a much more accurate complain, given that this is all you complain about.

Yup, I'm just going to stop reading here, I was not only complaining about World on Fire, if you actually read some of the thread, you'd know that. Every aspect of Ember needs to be changed with the exception of Accelerant.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hmm... going in blind, having not read a lot of the other threads...

My personal problem as it stands with Ember is that, while her damage can increase a bit, and is quite high output over time, she runs into the twin problems of no actual survivability beyond a radial stun and an augment (which has had a bit of a significant nerf with her range scaling down), while her energy usage is so high compared to what that energy is actually doing.

When I play Ember, I end up running into the same problem I did with Zephyr before her rework, which is that her 4th ability is getting used, but for little effect at high level, and all of her play (for me, not everyone does this) ends up centred around weapon damage, which is then buffed from Accelerant and Fire Blast, and her wide-area stun from Accelerant is more important than the actual damage the abilities deal. When the damage for World on Fire caps out, people are loathe to abandon it, because it's still additional damage, but if I'm honest I do. I abandon it simply because I need that energy more for radial stuns to stay alive.

What Ember most lacks, to me, is reliable means of surviving.

You don't need massive damage, you don't need massive area of effect, you just need to be able to sustain your warframe through the different levels of difficulty with mechanical functions built into the kit.

I wasn't here for Overheat, that was actually something that DE considered too powerful... for some reason. I think that it was because it could reduce incoming damage by 40% and output high (for the time) damage ticks over time of Heat. Obviously World on Fire does the damage part better, and DE at the time of it changing thought that Ember's powers should be able to scale up to 90% damage reduction (although with the strength mods we have now, that would have to be capped, since we could probably get it to 100% easily) but that function now? That kind of thing might actually be viable for her, if adapted more for the modern play style.

For example, we don't want Ember to lose her aggressive style that DE seems to want her to have.

DE's change to World On Fire has not made it more difficult to use that ability, it's made it more difficult to use that ability while passive. You now have to run closer, move more, and thus put yourself in danger more.

The change to Fire Blast and the improvements to the effects of Accelerant, however, make her want to set down the fire ring and use the damage boost of shooting through it, plus the damage boost from Accelerant, to keep the ring constantly between herself and her enemies for maximum damage from weapons...

And then the change to Fireball just made that one better, actually, pop down a ball of napalm and show the grineer how it feels to be on the receiving end for a change...

The problem is, gee whizz, that there's absolutely nothing that Ember can do to lessen or prevent incoming damage without consistently spamming Accelerant... Not since the wide-range nerf to World on Fire meant that you couldn't reach the same kind of area of effect with that. I mean... Accelerant has always had a quicker cast, better range and instant effect on everything in range, making it the better CC cast than augmented World on Fire, but that's not really the point.

It brings me back to that point:

Without an active mechanic that can actually reduce or mitigate damage coming to her for when she can't keep spamming that stun... then as a frame she's pretty screwed.

So what can we do? What can DE do without reverting the changes already made?

Well... how about something like this:

Passive; If set on fire from any source, Ember will gain a small buff to power strength and regen energy at a rate of 5 per second for the duration of the effect. (You'll see why I've reduced that in a minute)

Accelerant; becomes an AoE around Ember for duration of cast. Rather than marking enemies with each cast, forcing Ember to cast and recast, Accelerant becomes a radial effect that applies the double-Heat-damage to all enemies in range. Recasting while active refreshes the duration and stuns enemies in range.

Enemies affected by Accelerant that are set on fire have a guaranteed Panic proc (the flailing about) and while on fire deal 40% reduced damage to Ember while in range of the AoE.

Fireball; While in range of Accelerant, napalm ball gains 100% chance to proc Fire status on enemies. When cast directly at Ember's feet, Fireball will also set Ember on fire. Being set on fire by Fireball causes no damage and will prevent refreshing of the fire proc from all sources (basically, six seconds of energy regen, a power strength buff and immunity to fire procs on demand, but you can't refresh it until duration is over, meaning you spend the base 25 energy and get 30 back, add Efficiency to suit your taste.)

Two ability changes and an adjustment to her passive to prevent over-powered personal energy regen.

She gets back a form of Overheat, but an active one, where she has to set everything on fire with her abilities/weapons to debuff them, and she also gets an Aura to Accelerant so that she does not have to continually spam it to get the damage boost on enemies, it also means guaranteed CC with the stuns from the cast and with the Panic proc from all fire status.

World on Fire doesn't need to change with this version, and neither does Fire Blast (since that has guaranteed procs on the wave of fire to synergise with the new Accelerant aura), and this should mean that you can blast yourself with fire, regaining a bit of energy, drop a ring of fire to make sure everything Panics, and then blast away with the Fire damage buff from the ring to your weapons, and the damage buff to Fire damage from Accelerant. Every enemy that gets proc'd will panic, every enemy that stays proc'd will deal reduced damage overall. With the guaranteed Panic procs, you may even find that Fire Quake isn't even necessary ^^

Far more survivable and far more sustainable. Interesting passive interaction, and damage that's self-boosted again and again.

What do you think?

[RealPandemonium]

Lol, these threads just keep popping up, even while other ones are still active. 

But I agree with:

On 2018-05-21 at 10:30 AM, Djego27 said:

I am talk about a whine thread that lacks any kind of substance, written by people that do for the most part not even utilize Embers main damage feature at all(hint you do not do your damage with WoF on Ember), complaining about what is effectively 5-10 more button presses per minute.

It's about what I expect from OP on a given day.

[sixmille]

Il y a 7 heures, RealPandemonium a dit :

Lol, these threads just keep popping up, even while other ones are still active. 

But I agree with:

It's about what I expect from OP on a given day.

Isn't it the case with every ember thread? People can't think for themselves anyway so until some youtuber decides to show that ember is good or strong, we're going to see these threads just like we had mag ones for months before people understood how mag works.