After Zephyr Prime, we'll probably be getting Limbo Prime (and I'm a bit worried)

[(XBOX)SmokeSkele]

Tophat DIO is my dad

[Vanille]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ToastyFairy01 said:

Unpopular opinion: I like Limbo's current form and it's the strongest he'll ever be. His CC is literally the strongest defensive one and is utterly unrivaled. There is not a single frame that can come even close to Limbo's CC.

 

My Limbo has 88 seconds of Cataclysm and 80+ seconds for Stasis. I bring my Limbo out to utterly trivialize Rescue, Mobile Defense, Sortie Defense and extreme Defense and often end up carrying people or solo with only taking one or two hits. The only thing that stops Limbo from being godly are only two things: Nullifiers and ignorant team mates.

It's not an unpopular opinion. No one thinks Limbo is weak. People complain about his abilities interaction, not his power. Limbo's CC is really strong, but the trade off for it is having the ability to, if desired, disrupt your entire squad at will. Limbo's strong CC isn't needed outside of long endurance runs where people/objetives start getting 1shot by everything. His strong CC is not unmatched in low level public gameplay, and there are other frames that can cc and defend in lower levels as good as a Limbo can, without disrupting your squad, while Limbos do what other frames could do, while annoying the rest, he's gonna be hated for it. I know good Limbo players and his potential, but I also know if Kevin wants to be a jerk to his squad members, he has the tools to do it with game mechanics, forcing people to leave missions. It doesn't just happen intentionally, some new players trying Limbo, but ignoring chat.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Kiwinille

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Limbo won't be changed, his powers work just fine and he functions as a decent CC frame with the ability to solve a lot of problems; escorting a drone or hostage? banish them and let them run free. too many enemies? Cataclysm then Stasis, and melee away. team needs energy and there's no Trin? banish your team (with their permission of course) and they'll be all good.

I know it's on the Bingo card, but it's true; Limbo is underappreciated and not many people know how to use him effectively. instead they'd rather bash on people who do. one thing's for sure though: Limbo prime is gonna be one of the best looking Warframes yet!

[ljmadruga]

5 hours ago, cookieknife said:

ever change in warframe needs to happen to make the game better and more enjoyable for the people playing and looking at it from afar

Yeah, that’s why the Ember rework was so good.

[Wesgile]

Inevitably, sad as it is.

[AzureTerra]

9 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

The community will never be pleased.

Yep, For every action there is an overreaction.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Limbo Limbo Limbo. Sigh. His biggest weakness is confusion. Are enemies IN the rift? Why can't I shoot them? Am "I" in the rift?? What is going on? Stop touching me.

I think DE should just transition him into full time-wizard and do away with this Rift-on Rift-off nonsense. Ugh but figuring out how without throwing away his existing moveset is another headache.

I had his first iteration figured out. Cast Cataclysm way off, then snipe anyone in the bubble. But now you can't do that with Stasis messing up every shot. And Stasis IS the star of the show now. Rift Surge doesn't multiply damage anymore, it just keeps enemies in the rift so you can stasis them again. And what's the point of banish anymore when a Cataclysm+Rift Surge does it but better.

Edited March 20, 2018 by (PS4)Tactless_Ninja

[WindigoTG]

What I am worried about is that when Limbo Prime come out, all of PUG will be infrsted with Limbo, so I probably will have to stick to Friends Only for at least next three month untill the next PA.

[cookieknife]

3 hours ago, ljmadruga said:

Yeah, that’s why the Ember rework was so good.

Yeah in fact it was. It showed us how awful of a design ember is! 

Fire damage doesn’t do well against anything but no armor no ancient infested. 

 

Now we need DE to recognize this failure of a frame and work with it. 

[SenorClipClop]

13 hours ago, Cascoath said:

And it especially worries me with a frame such as Limbo because it seems half of the feedback about Limbo seems to come from people who don't actually play the frame, but instead seems to be coming from those complaining about others playing the frame (and sometimes rightly so), and to be honest that worries me because a lot of Limbo players actually really dig his unique set up. And because of that, I feel like if Limbo does get revisited, it will most likely end up less than stellar for Limbo players. There seems to be an unspoken rule in the Warframe community that, if you like something DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. Because DE seems to have a habit of making changes without consulting the playerbase first (for anyone who ever played Paragon, you know how frustrating it is for huge sweeping changes to be made without player feedback first).

Let's ignore this last sentence, since DE has almost always made changes based on huge amounts of player feedback*. And that's why it seems pretty likely that Limbo will be adjusted in some way before the release of his Prime: like you said, there's tons of feedback telling the devs that players are unhappy with Limbo. Not all players, but many. Most of the negative feedback, it's true, seems to come from players who aren't playing the Limbo in the squad. To summarize most of those complaints, Limbo greatly disrupts other players' (ranged) gameplay and players want to see the frame made less disruptive.

On the Limbo side of things, I see two problems with him that I hope will be addressed by his likely update. The first is that despite his archetype as a nimble, tactical fighter, his most effective strategy in any situation is to press 2 buttons and mash E until the end of time. A Limbo player is not significantly rewarded for being tactical or nimble, because his best plays are his simplest. The second is that to go along with his high learning curve (which isn't a problem), outside of the 4-2-mash strat Limbo has a very high skill floor. This means that if you want to do anything more complex with Limbo, you need to become really good with him. This won't happen very often since many players picking up the 4-2-mash strat will neglect to learn Limbo to his fullest, because the next most complex thing is less effective.

To correct the second problem without changing the frame, something needs to be added to help players better understand what Limbo can accomplish without doing too much reading. Limbo is really cool, but not that intuitive to most players, meaning that only a dedicated handful will pick him up and really use him. I'm not really sure what this could be, in part because I'm a little biased that problem is Stasis.

To correct the first issue, there needs to be a change to Stasis. It is too disruptive to other players to be frequently used and too powerful to not be frequently used. Even experienced players attest that it's best not to use Stasis often with a group, which means abstaining from his really potent CC. I've given this a bit more thought, and I have some ideas for fixing this:

• Remove Stasis and give Limbo something else. This could be any number of things (NOTE: I don't think Stasis needs to be replaced, and I have other suggestions below):
  • Offense: Limbo releases swaths of Rift energy that meander across the Rift plane, dealing damage to all enemies who come in contact with them. Limbo can Banish these to the physical plane, after which they explode in a small AoE for damage, a stun or some other effect.
  • CC: Enemies entering the Rift while this ability is active are momentarily stunned. Each kill Limbo makes in the Rift plane once again procs a stun on enemies in the Rift, or in an area around the slain enemy.
  • Defense: While toggled on, Limbo gains some kind of defensive buff when crossing planes (flat Armor, very brief invincibility or a significant damage reduction), and enemies are dealt a defensive debuff when crossing planes (Armor/Shield reduction based on Strength, or something else). This toggle works like Equinox's 3, not blocking Energy restoring effects and consuming energy per target affected.
• Stasis no longer stops ally fire. This fix is pretty straightforward. To balance Tenno being able to damage tons of frozen enemies with impunity, the base Duration on Stasis is significantly reduced.
• Stasis retains its current effects but is no longer Rift-wide. Instead, Stasis is a large, targetable AoE. Many Limbos like to build for really high Range and play in a massive Cataclysm, and using Stasis to deal with the enemies Limbo is focusing on in such a situation leaves bunches of enemies unnecessarily frozen and ignored by Limbo. Making Stasis a targeted AoE lets Limbo keep the power of Stasis without interfering as much with the squad.
  • If the loss of sweeping Range needs to be compensated for, Stasis could affect targets outside of the Rift as well. For example, targets in the physical plane within this ability's AoE could be given some kind of defensive debuff. This would encourage comboing skills both in and out of the Rift plane.

These are just some suggestions.

 

*_{For example, Limbo's previous update was largely based on players requesting that some of his abilities be combined into one, since his 1 and 2 did the same thing.}

Edited March 20, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[Serafinia]

Limbo only needs changes in the rift part which prevents the players from shooting and taking up items. Other than this Limbo is not as annoying as peoples make it out. Also a tutorial video for Limbo and how you can avoid his banish would be nice as an official tutorial because frame mechanics are poorly told in their review videos. 

 

Also I just want to leave this here. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Serafinia

[_Vortus_]

Easy fix.    See Limbo in squad, abort.    Have little tolerance for them.   Sometimes I'll give them a chance, and wait and see though.   99.99 percent of the time, they pop cataclysm, hit stasis and leave it.    Ask them to either turn it off or use it intermittently.    Ignored.    Abort.    Not sure why players get mad at Banish, easy to get out of, can be helpful.   Stasis however.....     All that being said, Limbo is a great Warframe.   In a squad set up to work with one, or a player who knows how to use one effectively without screwing over his team mates is a wonderful thing.   Sadly, the first version only happens with set up squads, the second one only happens....  well, it could happen I guess.    I have actually run into some Limbo's who support the team like a boss, which is why I foolishly give Limbo's a chance sometimes.    But, finding a Limbo player that knows how to effectively use Limbo without being annoying happens about as often as a 75% off plat coupon.  

So Limbo P, pretty much expect my mission failure % to go up a point or two at a minimum from hitting the abort button so often.

[---UMBRA---]

Limbo is the most underrated frame because he needs skilled player.

So, dont worry, be happy, drink pepsi, be sexy

[Jarriaga]

Since I'm a Valkyr Melee player, a Stasis-focused Limbo benefits me. As such, I see no need to change him.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jarriaga

[SKKiro]

I feel like he will be changed like zephyr got changed a little while back. Hopefully for the better.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I think making it so that only limbo's own shots are affected by stasis would solve most issues. Give a slight DMG increase to other player's shots inside the dome instead. That way other players can roll out of being banished and act functionally the same inside rift bubbles (can melee and shoot normally, but at crowd controlled enemies with a DMG increase).

But as long as limbo can put rift bubbles on the whole battlefield and force everyone else to melee (which is sooooo fair when you are leveling only a primary or secondary and have no melee equipped)... He'll be kinda a nuisance imho. Frames should not affect other frames's abilities to deal damage or do their own thing. Heck , also fix frost' snow globe so that other players can shoot through them while we are at it. Nothing like trying to use a Lens on a cryopod when a gigantic snow globe makes projectiles detonate upon impact.

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)Timidobserver]

I think Limbo's mastery rank requirement should be changed to 37.

[(PSN)VKPButcher]

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Limbo needs to be changed into something idiot-proof.

Doesn't really matter what anyone comes up with, life will find a way. In the words of Vay Hek...

"DID YOU REALLY THINK IT WOULD BE THAT EASY?!"

 

Would love to see it happen but I'm way too cynical to not have massive doubts :/

[YandereWaifu]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Since I'm a Valkyr Melee player, a Stasis-focused Limbo benefits me. As such, I see no need to change him.

as someone who mainly uses zenistar melee and ranged weapons, fck that, change it now 

[Jarriaga]

50 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

as someone who mainly uses zenistar melee and ranged weapons, fck that, change it now 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Guest]

The problem with Limbo is that if you don't know how to play him properly, you won't be only useless but straight up detrimental to your team.

So I think he could use some tweaks to make him more idiot-proof.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

No one would care about limbo as much if his powerset didn't dictate how you play the game. That's his biggest problem which is closely followed by not being able to grasp what he's doing unless you have the frame yourself and even them you might not get it. Frames like Frost have abilities like globe that can be a nuisance in the wrong setting however, if you encounter a frost's bubble for the first time it won't take you long to have a general grasp of what his bubble is doing. Limbo? forget it.

[ShieldOfVigilant]

I play limbo quite frequently, and the first thing I do in a public match is tell people I'm playing Limbo. It seems to go a really long way to keeping the team happy. You'll always get a few who scream "CANCER!!11!" and leave, but for the most part people are pretty flexible. 

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

Omg yes I need Limbo Prime. :D 

I am currently hunting for Oberon Prime, my 2 favourites at the moment is Limbo and Oberon, need MR 8 though, soon soon. :D

[iDragolyte]

Mesa prime </3