Melee: Present and Future goals!

[spacexghost]

Spin2Win meta being gone is fine. I get it. It is also boring af to play, including the atrocity of attacking through walls.

However, as a melee main, all other changes are a bit... concerning. This might break or make WF experience for me.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

That air slam it speaks to me and my want to use hammers.

When we get that ground slam I want something satisfying like this when I have a hammer...

I don't want to see grineer get flung around and get back up again like nothing happened.

I want to see nothing but blood mist and a couple of grakata clips left when I land with the speed of a comet with my fragor.

When I do it with a sibear, I want there to be a glacier when I hit the ground

When I land with a jat kittag I want the enemy to be bathed in flames and rocket exhaust

When I land with a Arca Titron a huge electric discharge

When I land with a Volnus,the enemy is shredded with an explosion of glass shards

When I land with a magistar, everyone around me is stunned and opened up to finishers

[o.0-]

10 hours ago, o.0- said:

Cool, I'd like to add some ideas as to how Melee can grow to be more fluid and dynamic.

• Quick Melee keybind evolves be the go-to for Finishers and special actions.
  • such as quick melee is there to stun, counter, parry and finish, regardless of what weapon is out,
  • so could use the Warframe body to throw elbows, shoulders possibly even the equipped weapon without switching weapons.
• regular Melee is there to damage, kill and block
  • Quick Melee animation gets added to the basic attack animations
  • ability to aim attack angles to what ever allowable degree for targets above and below the warframe.
• the now freed former channel keybind can be there to execute slams, charges, heavy attacks and dodges.
  • With updated Melee Combos, it would be pretty cool seeing Combo execution be far more nuanced as to what a player intends for the situation at hand.
  • I can easily imagine being able to execute Blazing Vortex when I want when I see a dense group of enemies and then wail on them with Molten Whirlpool until the enemy turns to mush before me.

What I can imagine, is that now having three separated inputs, that combos can evolve and combat in general can flow better, as Quick Melee would then no longer be a direct damage function and be a support to what is currently equipped, and then using Melee would provide more control over what a player is doing in the field.

I hope others may see the value in what I'm sharing here for how this can go, and thank you devs for looking into this now!

I've spent time thinking about Channel Blocking, and wanted to share something that came to mind, currently we have regular Blocking with various weapons have a specific efficiency value.

So the best basic Blocker is Silva & Aegis Prime at 90%. Followed by various other options that could see a revision within this current work  as this moves forward.

What I came to wonder is could this be a model for how Channel Blocking bases its energy draw, where a weapon that is 85% effective would then only charge 15% on say against the Combo Counter Meter?

So the Silva & Aegis Prime would naturally be the top option for Channel Blocking, if say it only had to pay 10% of the cost in blocking damage, compared to say the any weapon sitting at 35% which, would instead pay 65% of the blocking cost, using current numbers granted.

So plenty of room here to redo the math across all of the melee weapons and have a nice use of Channeled Blocking as a result then favoring certain weapons that would be better at blocking damage than other weapons, so that melee weapons could possibly evaluated along a spectrum of more defensive or more offensive in nature, in how stat profiles are structured for these weapons.

This assuming that the Combo Counter can be allowed to evolve in a similar fashion to spare capacity points on a Warframe build for a Melee Weapon build (like having 11/78 on a build).

Spoiler

So that any weapon would begin with a small pool of the 'Consecutive Hits' tracked (modeling how starting energy works for abilities) and so a forma'd melee with spare mod points would allow for more starter 'Hits' as a mission begins and progresses.

And with adjustments to that meter, re-purpose that meter for the idea of how specialized attacks may be setup such as executing exhaustive Slams, Charges, Heavy Attacks and possibly Advanced Dodges beyond the basic rolling and sliding.

The idea being that the Meter then allows and feeds into more advanced and damaging melee that can still strike at multiple enemies as we beat them up into mush, compared to simpler, standard melee attacks and simply climbing up that ladder to only raise the damage multiplier and be able to use some of that earned value for devastating damage against the enemy according to what various Stances allow.

[greaterthanthree]

-snip-

[greaterthanthree]

-snip-

[greaterthanthree]

My thoughts!

Channeled blocking on all blocking, Great!  Blocking seems kinda underused and maybe this will help, but the main issue with channeled blocking is its energy drain. For many frames you're better off without spending your energy on this, so I would be more in favor of having a separate resource for blocking only (stamina 2.0??? 🤔🤔🤔) so that it is useful on more frames.

I can maybe get behind the combo counter thing, having it be more similar to an actual combo system and less like endless scaling damage for every hit, but if this is implemented I would really like to see something like specialized combo finishes for different tiers of combo that would have different effects and incentivize players to spend/save their combos according to their situations. (Something like a large slam attack for 1.5x tier, a sweep attack that inflicts status or bleeds for 2x tier, a channeled strike that heals you for some of its damage for the 2.5x tier, et cetera for different "tiers" of combo counter.) I would say that if the heavy attacks used to end a combo do not strike any enemies, they should NOT use up the combo counter points, as it would punish weapons with short ranges unnecessarily.

Heavy attacks need faster charge time and a higher damage multiplier to be useful, as right now they don't do enough damage for the amount of time spent charging them. Being able to move and jump during the charge would also be excellent, and would likely result in some really awesome charge kills on airborne enemies.

It'd also be neat if we got channeling effects on heavy attacks to give them more visual oomph (plus the body dissolving effect is kinda cool, but maybe needs a new sound effect?)

Most of all, I'd like to see different classes of weapons have bonuses unique to that style of weapon that synergize with the playstyle of that weapon. For example, for shields you could have a slower rate of depletion of blocking stamina, a wider angle at which you can block, and blocking adds to your combo counter/damage on next heavy attack. Daggers/Dual daggers could give increased sprint speed and reduced dodging cooldown. Hammers could give a chance on any hit to stagger a target for a finisher. Polearms could ignore a percentage of enemy armor for one attack when ending a combo. These are just a few ideas, and not necessarily the best ones, but having a bonus for using a certain weapon class would give an incentive to use melee as not only a source of damage but also a fun tool.

Thanks for the transparency, DE! You do great work, and I'm excited to see how melee 2.0 turns out!

[greaterthanthree]

🙄

[seprent]

Just now, greaterthanthree said:

-snip-

seems you quad posted buddy just so you know 

[freeformline]

I look forward to seeing these reworks in practice. You guys have done really well with most of your recent reworks, so I'm expect this will be good, too, at least after a few hotfixes worth of tweaking. My one concern is replacing the channeling option with heavy attacks. I'm not really a fan of most combat systems that have both heavy and light attack options, since I have more fun with attacking and moving quickly rather than spending time on slow heavy attacks that don't feel particularly effective. Channeling felt like a good way of adding an option to do extra damage with attacks. It had the trade-off of consuming energy rather than slowing combat, and eventually came with a few extra perks, such as dissolving bodies to prevent enemies from spotting corpses.

What will happen with channeling mods like Life Strike and Dispatch Overdrive?

[Veneratus]

Don't post often due to DE generally getting it right, but can't say i like the look of the current planned changes. Though i acknowledge that what we've seen in no way gives us a proper understanding of what's intended to come so complaining without being able to test it out myself is a bit stupid. Just need to voice concern on an issue which could break combat for me, and ramble on a bit about "but my combo counter...y u do dis".
 

Blocking automatically using the channeled function sounds nice, but will somewhat destroy melee weapons that have a strong block based combo; i know i don't want to be losing out on energy i intend to make careful use of because i absorb a stray hit here or there and get that valuable energy sapped away without me intending to do so, and players without the benefits of strong arcanes and primed mods will probably hate this more than pineapple on pizza. and blocking in general; chances are newer or lower ranked players are going to be using high strength builds, hiding behind their shield and just crying at their energy being stripped away when they were 3 seconds away from being able to clear the room. The constant drain seems like the logical option due to this, as it won't impact energy from initiating combos, and will promote timed blocking rather than hold to win.

Channeling changing to heavy attack keybind, while i can see a lot of people welcoming this change i simply can't; as it is i can't incorporate a single additional common use keybind into my setup and if the intention is to add this keybind into the combo system the same way that blacking currently is part of combos, i simply won't be able to perform them without making unwelcome sacrifices such as making reload a poorly located key. I'm undoubtedly one of very few people who will have this problem, but it is a significant problem for me none the less and would most likely result in me simply having to ignore the implementation of strong attacks new functions entirely. To this note, i'm curious if the proposed changes could be simply on by default, but have an option to swap to the current hold method?

In regards to the heavy attacks and combo counter synergy, replacing the current use of "keep it up and you'll do more damage". i assume the idea is to make the heavy attack hit a large area? because i really can't see it being worthwhile applying even an 8x multiplier to the current radius of heavy attacks, due to usually being able to perform almost an entire combo (usually a slash based or knockdown combo anyway let's be honest) during that same amount of time; at a minimum incorporating a guaranteed status proc into the function would be necessary, though increased radius of the attack would be preferable. The changes to the combo counter will have a significant impact on most peoples gameplay, as it's much easier to take on higher level enemies by making use of the combo counter than to build a strong warframe, primary or secondary weapon; raising the base damage will alleviate this part of the issue to a point, but i can't see it not being a massive issue with pushing higher level missions on a melee basis, without the damage adjustments simply making lower level enemies pointless in their entirety. Considering the current direction of the game being "welcome back to endless mission farming", any form of a damage nerf will simply push people towards the meta frame builds you so despise, so making these damage adjustments without simply basing every single weapon around slash damage (let's be honest that's what's happening anyway #slashking) will be a challenge.

And finally, i completely get making melee not go through walls but objects? be careful with this one please. If i can't hit a guy standing behind a crotch high wall with half of my attacks i'll flip.

 

That said, so keen for the falcon dive version of aerial slam attack +1 👍

[Hunter.Ace]

Please give us the option to reduce melee weapon trail intensity or make the trail slightly more transparent.  These often block vision towards enemy.

Also, some primary weapons releases some cloud like explosion (corinth alt, zarr cannon) that block both player and teammate vision. Please look into that as well.

[Ashoka.G]

finally decide to fix that spin to win thing huh? got say it's a good start, I have another thing need to remind you guys is that "why Slam attack sometimes lower dmg or same with spin attack?" really , where's the logic?? especially with heavy weapon...take a look at this side please.

[Tau.]

Initial response ramble is as follows:

 

Let's be real here, we all knew it was a matter of time before the maiming whip era had something done about it. No one can honestly say with a straight face that it felt like it belonged.

 

There isn't even a direct nerf to Maiming Strike listed in here, keeping it an option for real weapons still (probably in line with the original design intent). Based on currently-presented information, at worst you'll have to actually be looking at enemies as you mow them down with a Maimerax. Oh no, the horror.

 

Though in all realism, DE, please be a little forgiving with what 'objects' count as blocking LoS. The finnickiness of raycasting has been brought to the spotlight of recent events with Khora, so nip that potential headache in the bud before it makes for a litany of fires. True level walls, yes. Large, notable objects Tenno-sized and up? Yes. But little rocks, a small canister thing, rails, consoles, a barrel that you clearly swing over and past? No. 

 

Will melee-scaling abilities like Whipclaw, Landslide, and the like remain affected by the combo counter, or will the loss of its benefit to normal strikes function as an indirect mechanical nerf to those abilities as well?

 

Are combos going to be an alternation of light and heavy strikes, in lieu of the pause/hold/block/directional inputs that differentiate them right now, more in-line with more traditional and intuitive melee fighting in other games? The particular enjoyability of the coming combo systems will be a big make-or-break point. If they don't feel good to use, what'll be the point, you know? Are we talking 3-4 spam-grade hits to ramp up a cashable combo meter amount to deal a "screw this guy in particular" heavy attack, will it have flair and nuance comparable to current combo sets? What'll make that cashing-in of the combo counter really worth it? Large aoes, temporary buffs, special effects like disarms or armor-sunders, or will it really be just bigger damage numbers for that one heavy strike? Can Slams and Slides cash in on this combo counter thing for weapon-unique benefits? 

 

Many questions that need addressing, even if I'm sure you've already pondered over some of these. 

[(PSN)SquishyAmp]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.
• Revisiting Melee will focus on slam and heavy attacks to make them more useful and fun to use.

Uhmmm more infk is needed but this sounds not great at all since heavy attacks are so slow why would I want to use them in high lvl game play where the combo counter would be usefull. The normal attacks is what eberyone uses since they are quick and you wont die in high lvl gameplay where enemies one shot your puny armor.

 

The combo counter should still affect normal dmg like it always has. Make it that people abbusing spin attacks get a severe debuff like when you get dizzg when using cleeving wirld winds combo counter you would stagger except now make that stagger twice as long for the people that like to act if they are fidget spinners.

 

This will stop peoplefrom spin to win. One way or make a nother type of debuff for people spinning constantly.

 

On console this was never an issue since it was a pain to do.

 

This new combo system really does not seem fun in anyway. Now I am forced to use heavy attacks or alam attacks to benifit from the combo counter? I really dont see a point in this since it is a hassle or more of a hinderness in normal gameplay.

 

Heavy attacks are slow af. In a game that is action packed, fast and super mobile flying -through the air and jumping like a mad man - slow heavy attacks that break the flow of combat is just not fun.

 

The melee going through walls I can understand that is just stupid. It shouldnt really happen so thats great.

 

What about warframe abilities that works of combo counters for the damage in high lvl gameplay am I also forced to do heavy attacks just for a chance to use all my stored up combo points on a single attack. NO THAT ISNT FUN AT ALL.

 

Make the combo counter play the role it was always been. Let it have its exponential dmg increase as the counter goes up. Nobody wants to heavy melee steike a bombard and let that unit kill our warframe since we cant do anything if our one heavy strike did nor kill it. Let is use the combo counter as always with any melee on any attack.

 

Maybe make a heavy attack take 25 to 50 points per heavy strike off of our combo counter and normal attacks still benifit from the combo counter.

 

Again slam attacks and heavu attacks will not be fun if we are forced to use them just to get the benefits of our combo counter.

 

I want to use my combo counter with any attack and still get the benifits of it like I always have.

[shinkido]

i have spent so much time in this game... and more then 80% of my time enjoying it has been melee, 5% warframes/abilities, 5% guns, 5%missions/tilesets/environments and 5% community. the game has been very enjoyable threw the years for me. but nothing has shaken me into being genuinely worried for the future of fun in this game for me. until this workshop....

the idea of it taking fewer hits to reach higher combo multiplier is great but the idea of combo not effecting normal melee and only working on heavy attacks consuming your combo... its like 2 separate people pitched 2 separate ideas. 1 good, 1 bad, and they were put together and put forward... this is not even getting into the channeling changes, and the game wide implications this rework has...

with how things currently look... i am worried... worried i wont be able to enjoy melee nearly as much anymore and that i will have to find something else to do... and i dont want to.

with the lack of information i may be overthinking this, but as it stands now. i feel DE may make things work... or may make a (what feels like) large mistake. in changing melee when it is one of the pillars of this games enjoyability  and aside from spin to win is not in need of changes of this scale

time will tell... but i am worried

[TDIDiamond]

RIP Maiming strike, RIP Polearms.

People will always find a way to cheese the game and swap to another AoE, whats next, lets just nerf lenz, ember, equinox, saryn... eh #*!% it nerf EVERY SINGLE AOE IN THE GAME because fun police is always on the job.

You do realize you are developing a loot based farming game, and not a coop action adventure?

 

[phazefox]

while the rest seems great, i have to say i don't think making the combo counter benefit only heavy attacks is a good idea. neither having it all be consumed in a single attack. though honestly i'd rather the combo counter was scrapped entirely in favor of consistent melee performance. another thing that doesn't seem right is merging blocking and channeling, both due to the loss of channeling and due to how it may potentially limit blocking, especially if it drains energy. channeling could be useful, imho, if only it's energ ydrai nwasn't so enormous, it simply doesn't give neouhg for how much it costs. if it, for example, only had a set drain per button press that'd make it muhc more usable, and if it had some actually interesting effect besdies increasing damage, (maybe related to the warframe you're using, since you're channeling energy into your weapon) that could make it a very interesting mechanic.

However the biggest problem i see with the changes is preventing melee from going through objects, warframe is a very crammed and very fast paced game, there's small objects everywhere and if melee attacks simply stop being capable of punching through them it's usability will be heavily reduced. this isn't dark souls where you can carefully place each strike on your foes, this is warframe where you're an unstoppable hurricane of death that moves so fast it's sometimes hard to even see what's happening, and i'm not talking about spin-to.win, this is just how it usually goes when using melee. if melee range mods have to be nerfed in order to keep this functionality then so be it, but making melee unable to swing through any object would be a grave mistake imho.

And speaking of spin-to-win, the biggest issue here is the one that's not being adressed. maiming strike and it's Riven counterparts. slide attack critical multiplier is the only reason spin2win has gotten so out of hand, it has been broken from the moment it was introduced and has only gotten progressively stronger. frankly it should've never existed. the best solution to the problem would be to get rid of it's source, eliminate the mod, change all rivens with slide crit to regular crit, give a legendary fusion core for every maiming strike erased since it has become so valuable. if slide crit bonus stays as it is it'll always have an advantage over regular attacks, and maybe even over the upcoming heavy attacks, simply because critical multipliers can get enormous. so even if you nerf melee range and make melee incapable of going through walls and whatever other overall changes you may make to melee, spin2win will still deal the most damage, and thus will still be spammed to no end.

[(PSN)GL_alphamind]

Suggestion(s)

Note: Wrote this after the Reflections part because this is really what I want people to see.

Why not kill two birds with one stone? From what I gathered here, is that DE is trying to make combos from stances fun and more meaningful. Also players are upset with how the Combo Counter damage multiplier is being changed to only benefit heavy attacks and to be spent in one single attack. This next quote just helps contextualize my suggestion.

10 hours ago, lihimsidhe said:

Combo Meter Skews Towards Variety, Not Repetition. Reward players more who don't do the same exact attack over and over and over.  1 hit should always add something to the combo counter.  But reward the player more who has explored the depths of what Warframe's combat system has to offer and uses the full bag of tricks at his or her disposal regularly.

Why not let combos from stances have a beneficial affect on the combo counter? Initially I though cycling between combos should grant bonus, not a straight up increase from a 1.5x multiplier to a 2x multiple but something similar to Relentless Combination where the counter increased by a number or, more worth wild, your increase in counter doubles. (By this I mean, if you cycle combos and get this bonus, instead of your counter going up by 1 for hitting 1 enemy, it goes up by 2 for hitting one enemy.) The problem there however, is that it might just cause people to memorize one long combo sequence of each combo, ultimately doing the same cycle of combinations. This is where that first simple idea really made me about how stances and the combo counter change can truly go hand and hand.

Players are probably suggesting that the combo counter should be partly depleted for heavy attacks but even so, I think the percent depleted could ultimately be wasted. An yeah, some people don't mind but I think we can avoid the potential waste all together. You want combos to be recognized as useful and fun?

Maybe deplete the combo counter through the combos from stances rather than heavy attacks. Easier combos do more damage than then the basic button mash and deplete the counter less than a harder combo that does more damage than the easier combo.

This will A), let combos from stances be useful and fun, B) add more variety as some combos would be more useful in certain situations than others, C) Get rid of concerns about losing entire combo counters for a single heavy attack. Of course it would no longer be combo counter depleted in one instance, rather iterations of depletion with each button that furthers the combo. Lastly, this would be combo based not stance based so it would mean more difficult combos would reoccur as the higher tier attack making learning all combos worth wild.

Reflection

1) No more melee attacks going through walls.

I had never considered this an mechanic to be abused like in the gif posted. For me it was always a time saver of only a few seconds of not going around a wall or railing. It makes a lot of sense that your melee attacks can't go through walls. My only small issue with this is not being able to break containers. Breaking containers through walls and letting your sentinel vacuum it up it is a small time saver but if you really are breaking every container, those few seconds you save add up if your looking for rare containers for ship parts. While coding melee attacks to break containers and not hit enemies through walls is hard, if that can be done I think it would be great.

2)

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

While the specifics of this aren't known, I have an issue with this system. As it stands now, the combo counter are great for dealing with long survival missions. As enemies get stronger, so do you. I understand melee will get a big buff to base damage because of this, however it limit the cap on how far people can go into endless game modes unless they use a sniper (or any other weapon with a combo counter, if there is any other weapon besides snipers and melee). Are the limits of what spin to win can reach on endless missions something that needs to be nerfed? In other words, are we reaching limits in endless mode and peak enemy levels we can quickly dispense that we are not meant to reach? I don't know, but limiting the combo counter like this will make it easier to find those limits. (Then again, maybe I just can't do much with

My second concern is with the heavy attacks eating up combo counter. Like I mentioned, combo counter help with end game missions. Having heavy attacks get stronger with combo counter implies to me that heavy attacks would be used with the mind set of "Oh S#&$ light attacks won't cut it with this thing. Let me use a heavy attack". To simplify the hypothetical going through my head, my issue is that it's already costly to lose your combo counter at higher level stuff. Will heavy attacks really be worth losing that counter? How many minutes spent on the combo counter will players spend on a single heavy attack?

3) Stances and Combo inputs reworked

I love this idea! To start, any combo with the moving backwards key is absolutely a nightmare on console. I don't think I can perform it at all. Maybe that's me though, maybe there's something simple to it I just don't know. It's great to see that the combos will be simplified and easier to memorize. Another important thing for me, is how it will affect stance management. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only player who looks at two V polarity stances and choose the one with easier combo. I know this is part of why this rework is coming in but I like that the stance mods I saved because of my completionist mentality will no longer just be useless in the way mods.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

From the video shown on the death stream it looks like the heavy attacks will primarily be area attacks so it probably will work in this hoard game (I would not object to a insane high damage single target attack. If I can cleave a Grineer Bombard or any Grineer honestly...like say:

Then I will be VERY happy!

I digress.

So far the "hinted" idea/concept behind the melee changes seems to be that you use small attacks to damage enemies or damage them one by one, then you use a charge attack to finish them off all at once or do major damage to the large horde. Makes sense and it's a pretty simple concept.

[Jeancly]

I'm really afraid about the melee changes:

1) While it is NICE to have the option on how to attack, most of us just find the best combo that suits us and keeps on spamming it, we won't stop comboing to use the heavy attack on a NOX or so.

2) While it is nice that combo grows faster the idea of using it for heavy attack and as such reduce the efficacy of blood rush is kinda of a deterrent itself against the use of the heavy attack, what I suggest here is a separate value to charge the heavy attack, maybe like the syndicate weapons effect; you use the light attack and the value goes up, then if you stop attacking the value slowly goes down, or if you use the heavy attack the value goes down. DO NOT make the heavy attack use the combo counter.

3) DO NOT nerf in any way or form the actual Blood rush and similar mods. We love them. 

4) About the nerf in range mods it all depends on how it ends up, honestly remember that primed reach is 40k endo and 2 M credits to max. IMO the change to walls and environmental objects blocking the strike ( 100% agree on this change ) is more than enough to limit the crazy reach rush. No need to directly change how the actual range works.

5) if blocking is channeling, what will happen to the current bock combos ? will they count as channeling and consume energy ? will they remove the block combo ( OH GOD NO )?

6) Pls, as McGamer said, remember this is Warframe. You may even do a perfect combat system with dodge timed strike ecc ecc, like dark souls.... but would it fit here in Warframe ? We have hordes here, we want to sweep across the battlefield with huge swings killing everything, not really use elaborate combos, timed dodges and strikes.

7) ( edit ) Don't force heavy attacks. Like making them a necessity to increase the combo counter or something, INCENTIVISE on using them by giving a bonus or something. 

[Xolgys]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb DatDarkOne:

Channeling sucks up A LOT of energy when you have LifeStrike equipped due to the negative to channeling efficiency.  Once I got away from LS, I noticed instantly how much more I could channeled attacks without draining my energy.  

This lead to things like experimenting more with Dispatch Overdrive, using the channeled throw of the Orvius more, etc.  As long as you don't have a negative channeling efficiency mod on, channeling is actually pretty good and useful.  

thats exactly what i mean. the only real issue is the negative channeling efficiency on all these mods. if that was revisited it wouldve been in a really great place.

[SenorClipClop]

2 hours ago, cookieknife said:

The notion that all combo count will be used up on 1 heavy attack swing goes against how this game works. This is a horde game. There are tons of enemies. Hitting 100 just to one shot one won’t do a thing for you when there will be 10 more just like it. 

Building up your combo counter to have it all used up by a single attack goes against a huge part of what melee is built around now -- but they're changing the other parts to accommodate the change to the combo meter. It would be nerf if this one change happened and nothing else, but instead they're overhauling how combos work in the first place. 

Right now, in order for melee to scale and deal with high-level enemies, players need to keep hitting things to sustain their damage or it all but dissipates. Naramon passive is huge, and Combo Duration mods like Body Count or Drifting Contact are basically mandatory. It also means that in order for your melee to stay relevant, you can't switch off of melee for more than a few seconds.

It looks like what they seek to do with the change is to first increase the base damage of all melee weapons, and then have combo stack up significantly faster. You won't have to hit 100 enemies to one-shot a single enemy, that's ridiculous. We'll have to wait and see exactly how it plays, but it seems they're angling to make melee play have more variety than "hit e a million times". This would also free players from the obligations to sustaining their melee combo for the entire mission.

[Razorv2]

 

Why do we loose combo points when we perform heavy attack? Thats kinda bad. Make heavy attacks reward more combo points. Make them reward for using them not for get punished when we use them.

Im curious about how balancing goes, u guys made it that super accurate guns with high fire rate status based, inaccurate weapons with high fire rate crit based so is there an something like this where u will use it for nerfing-buffing melee weapons?

There is an counter attack option for melee in current system that doesnt work quite well, with some quite fixing counters maybe worth using in combat for melee only combat.(ı dont know how to fix it but ım just reminding that this exist)

Can we use light and heavy combos at same time? Like 2x light then 1x cleaving heavy attack and 2x light attack? That would be awesome. 

And for now last thing is, ı found a games where u can look for combos that suits quite well for warframe. Darksiders 1 and 2. İn those games, you face hordes of weak enemies or 1-2  strong enemies. its very close what u will see in warframe. I like those games combo system. They feel fluid and usable in every situation. You can use every single movement for performing different combos. Imagine that we got every singe movement rewarded in warframe with different combo!(what ım talking about movements is like double jumping and doing combo, mid air combo, uppercuts, lifting attacks, charge attacks that can be used on mid air, rolling and starting a new unique combo.) I know its not same game but ı found it wery close in terms of melee combat. And also ım not saying that Darksiders 1-2 melee combat is perfect. But damn it feels soooo good.

Also change maiming strike to this: Every succesful 3rd attack on same enemy will have %90 crit chance. Very versitile, can be equipped on everything, doesnt break the game.

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

As everyone else is saying:

A Plea for people with opinions like OP: Wait until it's released.

While I do agree with this, I would also say that right now is when the system is most subject to change, because after it comes out the devs will have to sort through 50 pages of feedback to see what people think about the change.

So someone saying "please think about this" while potentially worthless, is being done during a crucial time of development. Which is when the devs are considering all the factors in the system they have created as it currently stands.

[LupisV0lk]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Why are you pleading to us?

Because mob rule won before.

This is a prime example of why developers shouldn't listen to their communities. It limits progress, much needed changes are stifled.