How about access to the dev/test server.

[TasteVengence]

So while i was eating a snack earlier,this poped in my mind.
Access to a dev/test server for all tiers of founders + dedicated non founders, of corse have a NDA on this server,you can record but you cant upload anything until the NDA is lifted,anything you do on this server will not transfer over to the live server eather,but it will allow more people to test changes and what not give there feedback and allow more detailed information on what seems like a fair nerf/buff instead of what is going on right now with things being over nerfed or over buffed.
 

[PoisonHD]

You mean what the PC build is?

[Nykerios]

The PC build is already a good enough test server, with people playing on a variety of PCs and networks that DE shouldn't spend the time to replicate in-house.

Edited May 24, 2018 by --Q--Stryker

[NeithanDiniem]

You do understand that there would be breeches of that NDA fairly instantaneously and it would do jack to help stop it, right?

[Koldraxon-732]

PC is the Dev/test server, just without the who-knows-how-many-crashes-could-be-happening and random deletions of things that didn't get approved for production.

If we're to get any closer, DE could have a release build 'mod' which allows for Founders and select people DE would select (i.e, those who report most frequently and are also most active and best behaved) to log on and play WIP modes on the Live side (albeit all rewards, etc... earned would not be kept, except resources and credits within acceptable values, however DE interprets that).

Otherwise, patience will be our virtue, and we could do with more keen eyes looking for tiny discrepancies, like holes on tilesets.

[TasteVengence]

The live server/build is not a dev build /test server, I'm talking about the dev server/build they use to test changes and what not before they hit the live server/build

as for NDA breaches ok someone might find something and tell there friends and what not what is being worked on,as for recording have a TOS someone must agree to for access to this server/build if they breach it then revoke there access,im just sick and tired of seeing DE's balance department over nerf/buff things (nerf things to be useless,or buff things up so much they become meta and the "must have/use to be competitive") this would give more detailed numbers/information on what would seem like a fair nerf or a fair buff

Edited May 24, 2018 by TasteVengence

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, NeithanDiniem said:

You do understand that there would be breeches of that NDA fairly instantaneously and it would do jack to help stop it, right?

You could have a test server only for things that has already been revealed/developed and therefor is not a secret. Just game mechanics, reworks, new weapons, etc, but no quests.

Blizzard has always been doing that with Diablo 3, and it has always worked great and is one of the best beta-testing methods you could ever hope for.

[WindigoTG]

Just now, TasteVengence said:

The live server/build is not a dev build /test server, I'm talking about the dev server/build they use to test changes and what not before they hit the live server/build

What makes you think they test anything?

After Khora's release I'm pretty sure that the only thing they test is if the game client will launch with the new changes.

[trst]

6 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

What makes you think they test anything?

After Khora's release I'm pretty sure that the only thing they test is if the game client will launch with the new changes.

Y'see the issue is that if they do their testing properly then nobody notices.

No one talks about content being stable or bug-free, they only talk about content when it's unstable and bug-filled.

And if they did less/no testing then every aspect of every update would be release Onslaught.

[WindigoTG]

Just now, trst said:

And if they did less/no testing then every aspect of every update would be release Onslaught.

Implying it isn't.

[peterc3]

30 minutes ago, WindigoTG said:

Implying it isn't.

Implying it is.

[dEjAvU5566]

 You ARE using the test server right now.

[TasteVengence]

23 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

 You ARE using the test server right now.

you know the build the devs use during dev streams? were they show WIP changes and what not,that is the build/server what ever I'm talking about

[trst]

A dev/test server would never work for this community. An NDA to players on it would do literally nothing, people would still freely post information on everything on/added to it.

 

The reason that's a problem is that this community takes the slightest bit of information (or even unfounded rumors) and runs with it. This entire community seemingly thrives off making wild accusations off everything we're told and heard, regardless of the source.

Anything that was put on the dev/test servers that players had any negative opinions about then they'd absolutely lose their neurodes over it. Doesn't matter that the purpose is to test the content.

 

Plus the general issues of player expectation like when we still had players datamining and found weapon variants in the files and players moaned and complained every time they weren't added.

[(XBOX)Cotton Tail]

Where I've seen this implemented in other games, such as FFXI, the issue has been retention; initially people enjoy the feeling of seeing things first and being part of the development cycle, but that wears off, and the fact that you can't keep any of the nice new toys on your main account causes numbers to drop. Test server environments will require resets, re-installs and the like, leading to the players starting afresh. Tools are often provided to allow you to set character level, give yourself equipment etc. but ultimately it is an experience that feels fruitless. To the point where the test servers get shut down as they become depopulated.

How many people will consistently give up a decent proportion of their gaming time to play a game where a) you can't tell anyone about it and b) don't get to keep anything you earned (except within the bubble of the test environment for a while)?

There is a reason that software development has roles for paid testers; it's a job.

[Vanille]

Lore-heavy based games like Warframe will never get test servers because spoilers, or datamining for things that might never see the light on live build and people getting upset over it.

[NeithanDiniem]

15 hours ago, rune_me said:

You could have a test server only for things that has already been revealed/developed and therefor is not a secret. Just game mechanics, reworks, new weapons, etc, but no quests.

Blizzard has always been doing that with Diablo 3, and it has always worked great and is one of the best beta-testing methods you could ever hope for.

That means they have to make 2 different builds then, because DE is working on multiple things in their dev build that they selectively push parts of into the live build. This is why we get accidental leaks and unintended changes in builds; something got selected to be pushed to the live build that shouldn't. DE has enough trouble dealing with PC and Console builds, they do not and will not see any reason to add another one on top of that when PC is effectively already their test build.

Also, how often does D3 actually update? Be serious here.

Edited May 24, 2018 by NeithanDiniem

[SneakyErvin]

I find it extremely hilarious that some people throw out ideas about how such a server would be for founders and the select few that DE pick.

Have you guys honestly never, ever in your life played any form of game with a test server/center/realm/whatever? The companies that use them to smash bugs before a patch goes live begs on their bare knees that enough people should willingly test it. They even at times have to add specific fun things to those test platforms in order to get people to even bother trying it.

I know, WF is pretty big for a F2P game, but it aint on the level of some of those games that need to activly promote their test platforms. We are talking about the people that play on PC here, we cannot include the console players to test, Sony and Microsoft simply wouldnt put up with it due to things having to go through approval etc. several times before a patch goes live.

So wanting it to be for "founders and those that DE picks", you might aswell scrap the idea as a whole because not enough testing would be done and we would have just as many bugs anyways when things go live.

People...

Edited May 24, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[rune_me]

5 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

Lore-heavy based games like Warframe will never get test servers because spoilers, or datamining for things that might never see the light on live build and people getting upset over it.

There is nothing about Warframe that is lore heavy, though. I can't even remember the last time I had anything lore related pop into my game. Most of the time we are just running "shoot-anything-that-moves" or "get-in-get-out" missions.

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So wanting it to be for "founders and those that DE picks", you might aswell scrap the idea as a whole because not enough testing would be done and we would have just as many bugs anyways when things go live.

But OP is a founder. He probably just wanted something that was for him 

[Misgenesis]

The only thing that would happen with a test server

Spoiler

 

[TasteVengence]

5 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

That means they have to make 2 different builds then, because DE is working on multiple things in their dev build that they selectively push parts of into the live build. This is why we get accidental leaks and unintended changes in builds; something got selected to be pushed to the live build that shouldn't. DE has enough trouble dealing with PC and Console builds, they do not and will not see any reason to add another one on top of that when PC is effectively already their test build.

Also, how often does D3 actually update? Be serious here.

exactly,when a hotfix/update hits the live server bugs and what not dose slip through the cracks and follows suit, so with more people testing the devs are collecting more data on what is and isn't ready to be shipped so they have a better chance of takeing those bugs that slip through the cracks and keep them away from the live server.

 

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

There is nothing about Warframe that is lore heavy, though. I can't even remember the last time I had anything lore related pop into my game. Most of the time we are just running "shoot-anything-that-moves" or "get-in-get-out" missions.

But OP is a founder. He probably just wanted something that was for him 

just because I'm a founder dosent mean i want it only for me,i know plenty of other founders that would enjoy dedicateing there time to help the devs test things before they hit the live server.
The reason why a dev/test server/build would only be allowed for founders and a select few non-founders is because I + those other people are dedicated players,you need dedicated players to test things,

yes there might be a few bad apples that might break any NDA and leak things just remove there access to the dev server/build

[NeithanDiniem]

16 hours ago, TasteVengence said:

exactly,when a hotfix/update hits the live server bugs and what not dose slip through the cracks and follows suit, so with more people testing the devs are collecting more data on what is and isn't ready to be shipped so they have a better chance of takeing those bugs that slip through the cracks and keep them away from the live server.

 

just because I'm a founder dosent mean i want it only for me,i know plenty of other founders that would enjoy dedicateing there time to help the devs test things before they hit the live server.
The reason why a dev/test server/build would only be allowed for founders and a select few non-founders is because I + those other people are dedicated players,you need dedicated players to test things,

yes there might be a few bad apples that might break any NDA and leak things just remove there access to the dev server/build

You completely blew past the #1 reason why this will not be a thing. DE is not going to make an entirely new test server when all the effort taken to make the PC and console builds takes so long. They are actively working to reduce the work needed to make the builds so updates can happen faster for console. They are also not going to release a server for people to play on that will inevitably contain information that may or may not make it into the main game because any such release of info will immediately be met with people expecting it to release as is vs it being considered a WIP, and such they will immediately backlash against DE for the slightest things they feel are a problem vs providing actual feedback. We see this exact problem right now with the PC builds, and every time DE has shown off experimental work this exact problem happens and the forums dissolve into a mess.

And again, DE has said they will not do this. That NDA will be as flimsy as wet paper because DE will be completely unable to prove who it is that is leaking info. People can in fact not use the same ID as their game account to post information, you know. Next, you need large numbers of people to test things, the founders are not a large number of people anymore, and many of them no longer even play the game. A solid chunk of them are banned for account sharing on top of that. Your founders are a paltry number for testing, leading to insignificant returns for the effort put in to maintain yet another build version and the servers required to run it separate from the main game. Lastly, with fewer people testing the builds, it will lead to fewer bugs being found. They will not be nailing down the causes of the bugs as quickly. With the split of the builds you will also see fewer updates to the core game, fixing problems there, because they would now have to wait on the bottleneck of the test server to find errors and give information for DE to use to fix the problems. There are zero advantages to this for players or for DE.

[Carnage2K4]

On 2018-05-24 at 1:34 PM, TasteVengence said:

you know the build the devs use during dev streams? were they show WIP changes and what not,that is the build/server what ever I'm talking about

The dev build would be updated multiple times daily, it's way too dynamic to be a functional build for players, for the streams they would take a snapshot of it and use that but behind the scenes devs would already be altering and updating it, it would not always be live on a server because it would need so much daily editing. You're basically asking if you can play with the bricks of a house while they are still setting in the mould, with the live build we play being the house... it just would not work.

Many Dev studios have a "test server" to iron out bugs and balance before the live build which some times is populated by special testers, however, I don't know if you've noticed that WF ships in a bugged state, often to the perceived detriment of many players, just look at all the Saryn shenanigans this week... The game it self IS the test build, which is the main reason the game is technically still in alpha/beta stage from a development perspective.

Your request should not be about a "test build" for players (it's what we play now), what you should be asking for is a stability build that is one major patch behind what we play now... basically you would want a console version build for PC... but would anyone actually play that?

Edited May 25, 2018 by Carnage2K4

[Vlada91]

Its not impossible,we did have that for the first relay if everyone can remember that?? I dont see why we dont have that again for something new.

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, Carnage2K4 said:

The dev build would be updated multiple times daily, it's way too dynamic to be a functional build for players, for the streams they would take a snapshot of it and use that but behind the scenes devs would already be altering and updating it, it would not always be live on a server because it would need so much daily editing. You're basically asking if you can play with the bricks of a house while they are still setting in the mould, with the live build we play being the house... it just would not work.

You would obviously not have access to the active development branch, since as you say, that would change all the time. You could just have a Test Server Branch that only gets merged when a lot of minor or major tweaks has been developed, but before they are released to the public. A good example would be the latest weapon balances, you could merge them in to the test branch and let the testers play with them, and thus see if they were fair or if they needed more fixing.

But it's true that currently regular PC warframe kind of serves that function. I know a lot of people hate that, but I'm strangely okay with that. It's fun to sometimes get to try out broken things before they get fixed (cough, nerfed, cough). And from a developers perspective, you can not get better testing than that: let the entire playerbase play with it, see what they can do, see what they break, collect the data and readjust. It is very effective (but at the risk of alienating some of the playerbase).