Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

Amps, from what we can tell via aesthetic and description, use sentient bones or sentient-infused materials as a structure to hold crystals in place. This is not the same thing; the void energy is added in afterward, and focused through a crystal, the sentient parts, if any, don't seem to be part of the function of the structure more than as an inert base.

But it still uses sentient parts does it not? It amplifies and focuses the Operator's void energy straight from the source. What's the difference between wearing an amp and wearing a warframe? Both basically do the same thing except Warframes are big fat conduits that channels void energy into completely different elements/abilities. It's not a stretch nor as lore breaking as people think if a warframe was created to channel void energy into sentient energy.

Edited June 6, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[WolvenEdge]

Just now, ShadowExodus said:

But it still uses sentient parts does it not? It amplifies and focuses the Operator's void energy straight from the source. What's the difference between wearing an amp and wearing a warframe? Both basically do the same thing except Warframes channels void energy into completely different elements/abilities. It's not a stretch nor as lore breaking as people think if a warframe was created to use sentient energy. But in this case it said that it was afflicted with it, so there will need to be some explanation on that but only if DE feels like it.

The only part of Sentients that we know to be capable of withstanding Void energy are their bones, as Hunhow directly told us. "Natah, you would trust tis orokin blood, that would chisel weaponf from our bones?"
At the same time, even mild exposure to the Void causes them to degrade at an incredible rate, as evidenced by the crumbling excuses for Battalysts and Conculysts we fight in Octavia's Anthem... and they practically fell apart even with Suda shielding them.

There are several problems lorewise with a Sentient-infused Warframe, taking the lore into account.

Sentient Warframe
     I. Integrated parts
             a. alive. Problem; Sentient Phylaxis is poison to Technocyte (the stuff Warframes are made of), giving them complete immunity, and the Void kills Sentients. The organisms involved are mutually harmful to each other. Thus; lore break.
             b. dead. Solves the mutually poisonous xenobiology, but... Problem; timeline. Thus; lore break.
                          1. We don't have the tech to build our own Warframes... only clone the leftover scraps that we managed to hide away from the Orokin. It can't be done now that we've lost the developing scientists... well, all save one, but I doubt the Silver Grove is willing to help.
                          2. The Eidolon (the specific Sentient our buddy Vlad is based on) appeared and wreaked havoc after the Orokin were killed. There was no inspiration for the makers of Vlad at the time, as the Sentient in question had not made itself known.
       II. Non-integrated parts (just armor, or some kind of pet, etc.)
            a. alive. No lore break, as it could have joined up with Vlad afterward and found a mutually beneficial relationship.
                          1. Would have to be pretty dumb to work with a Tenno consistently,
                          2. Must have no link to a larger Sentient mind, like the Eidolon or Hunhow. Wisps seem to act on their own, so they would work.
                          3. Must be isolated from all Warframe abilities that channel raw Void, and channeling in general, so that it isn't damaged by the partnership.
            b. dead. Would require structures on the warframe that we don't see in game...  so, half of a lore break? That said, this one would be the easiest to fix via a cosmetic update to the frame.
                          1. A built-in Amp would be pretty hard to miss.

II-a is the only option that accounts for all of the variables in lore and art; a warframe and a Sentient working together as two separate creatures. My warframe rework idea for Vlad capitalizes on this, using the Warframe as an amplifier for a wisp-like Sentient's abilities; a warframe that isn't normally wwell suited for combat taking a functional role through developments after its creation, only requiring a minor cosmetic update to fit its new theme... something that we can do in lore.

Meanwhile, II-b would work as well; I'd love to see a Warframe covered in what amounts to Amp-cannons, but this would change the look of Mr. beardy mcVlad-face.

I hope this makes it easier to understand what we're talking about when we say lore break?

[SierraZero]

As excited as the community is about receiving a new frame I feel, like many, that Vlad is leaving much to be desired. Releasing an eidolon frame is a phenomenal idea and I truly support that but what we have seen ability wise we have kind of seen before. This is an opportunity to make something amazing and I feel that we as a community need to throw some Flags down and be heard. That being said, I appreciate all the effort it takes to not only design a frame visually but also what it takes to program abilities into that frame so I do not want to belittle the work that has already been done up to this point on Vlad but I also want to say that at this juncture I am not excited about his gameplay. Here is my work in progress, proposition, that is completely open to constructive public criticism. If you guys think that base stats need to be improved or decreased from what I have listed feel free to comment what changes you would like to see while making the frame still viable as well as something new that we haven't seen before. If you'd like to see different Integrations within the abilities or synergies voice those opinions as well.

 

health: 400 @ rank 30

shield: 500 @ rank 30

energy: 150 @ rank 30

armor 225 @ rank 30

 

ABILITIES

1: Stance - swap between 2 stances, enabling alternative abilities. 

Eidolon stance 

Warframe stance(wip)

2: Eidolon stance - damaging energy fissure erupts from target location.

Warframe stance - shoot two lasers - one from each palm. Penetrates all enemies to range - does not penetrate walls.

3: Eidolon stance - [toggled ability] converts all health into shield which benefits from 50% armor value - hits to Vlad's shield dispense waves of energy to self and teammates.

Warframe stance - [toggled ability] converts all shield into health - hits to Vlad's health dispense waves of ancient armor to self and teammates.

4: Eidolon stance - [toggled ability] depletes and consumes all shields over time in a radius around the caster including nullifier bubbles. Recast to unleash a massive stream of damaging energy.

Warframe stance - [toggled ability] depletes and consumes all enemy armor over time in a radius around the caster and gives to self/teammates.  Recast to unleash a storm of puncture or slash damage in a radius around every teammate affected with the initial armor stacks

[SierraZero]

As excited as the community is about receiving a new frame I feel, like many, that Vlad is leaving much to be desired. Releasing an eidolon frame is a phenomenal idea and I truly support that but what we have seen ability wise we have kind of seen before. This is an opportunity to make something amazing and I feel that we as a community need to throw some Flags down and be heard. That being said, I appreciate all the effort it takes to not only design a frame visually but also what it takes to program abilities into that frame so I do not want to belittle the work that has already been done up to this point on Vlad but I also want to say that at this juncture I am not excited about his gameplay. Here is my work in progress, proposition, that is completely open to constructive public criticism. If you guys think that base stats need to be improved or decreased from what I have listed feel free to comment what changes you would like to see while making the frame still viable as well as something new that we haven't seen before. If you'd like to see different Integrations within the abilities or synergies voice those opinions as well.

These base stats will need to be changed. Please give your opinion on what they should be. 

health: 400 @ rank 30

shield: 500 @ rank 30

energy: 150 @ rank 30

armor 225 @ rank 30

 

ABILITIES

1: Stance - swap between 2 stances, enabling alternative abilities. 

Eidolon stance 

Warframe stance(wip)

2: Eidolon stance - damaging energy fissure erupts from target location.

Warframe stance - shoot two lasers - one from each palm. Penetrates all enemies to range - does not penetrate walls.

3: Eidolon stance - [toggled ability] converts all health into shield which benefits from 50% armor value - hits to Vlad's shield dispense waves of energy to self and teammates.

Warframe stance - [toggled ability] converts all shield into health - hits to Vlad's health dispense waves of ancient armor to self and teammates.

4: Eidolon stance - [toggled ability] depletes and consumes all shields over time in a radius around the caster including nullifier bubbles. Recast to unleash a massive stream of damaging energy.

Warframe stance - [toggled ability] depletes and consumes all enemy armor over time in a radius around the caster and gives to self/teammates.  Recast to unleash a storm of puncture or slash damage in a radius around every teammate affected with the initial armor stacks

[Errodin]

Suggesting changes already? He hasen't even been released ... normally the feedback comes after release ... i'm afraid this is what they call "a waste of breath".

[Hyro1]

We know literally nothing about him besides his abilities, and those are even confirmed to be changed before the next update, this post and your other are just  a waste

[SierraZero]

 

4 minutes ago, Errodin said:

Suggesting changes already? He hasen't even been released ... normally the feedback comes after release ... i'm afraid this is what they call "a waste of breath".

So after the last-minute polishing, you would feel that Vlad is in a good spot in terms of exciting new gameplay? 

What changes at the moment would you want Vlad to see before his release?

[SierraZero]

So the answer could be to sit back and receive whatever the Devs turn our faith into. Or the answer could be to have a discussion on the topic beforehand and possibly open them up to new ideas from a community whom they avidly listen to. 

 

[Errodin]

There is rarely a Warframe that upon release offers "exciting new game-play" they are simply a means of navigating existing content ... so yes whatever changes are made last minute i can say I'm completely comfortable with, because as a consumer i refuse to state that something should be different before i try it for myself.

Changes at the moment ... nothing, the only thing i want from DE is for content to be released when they say it will, unlike the case with Khora ... and after i've had my taste will I offer any sort of opinion.

[SierraZero]

Just now, Errodin said:

There is rarely a Warframe that upon release offers "exciting new game-play" they are simply a means of navigating existing content ... so yes whatever changes are made last minute i can say I'm completely comfortable with, because as a consumer i refuse to state that something should be different before i try it for myself.

Changes at the moment ... nothing, the only thing i want from DE is for content to be released when they say it will, unlike the case with Khora ... and after i've had my taste will I offer any sort of opinion.

When Khora was released the consumers set the Devs on fire. When they made changes based off of the community the fire was not so hot. So why not use this as an opportunity to mold a frame prior to release and save the developers the headache? They listen and incorporate; after release its hard to ask for changes and abilities we haven't seen before. Now is a great time to possibly have content released while not yelling at the Developers.

I understand where you're coming from, I too like to wait and see, in fact it's what I've always done but I feel strangely attached to this release because I just don't see it fitting. And if you disagree I will agree with your disagreement as we are all entitled to our own thoughts and I will respect yours.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Urlan]

30 minutes ago, Hyro1 said:

We know literally nothing about him besides his abilities, and those are even confirmed to be changed before the next update, this post and your other are just  a waste

I wouldn't say a waste, but its more a player idea about what the devs might use if they wanted. Just something of a brainstorming I figure.

[Urlan]

9 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

The only part of Sentients that we know to be capable of withstanding Void energy are their bones, as Hunhow directly told us. "Natah, you would trust tis orokin blood, that would chisel weaponf from our bones?"
At the same time, even mild exposure to the Void causes them to degrade at an incredible rate, as evidenced by the crumbling excuses for Battalysts and Conculysts we fight in Octavia's Anthem... and they practically fell apart even with Suda shielding them.

There are several problems lorewise with a Sentient-infused Warframe, taking the lore into account.

Sentient Warframe
     I. Integrated parts
             a. alive. Problem; Sentient Phylaxis is poison to Technocyte (the stuff Warframes are made of), giving them complete immunity, and the Void kills Sentients. The organisms involved are mutually harmful to each other. Thus; lore break.
             b. dead. Solves the mutually poisonous xenobiology, but... Problem; timeline. Thus; lore break.
                          1. We don't have the tech to build our own Warframes... only clone the leftover scraps that we managed to hide away from the Orokin. It can't be done now that we've lost the developing scientists... well, all save one, but I doubt the Silver Grove is willing to help.
                          2. The Eidolon (the specific Sentient our buddy Vlad is based on) appeared and wreaked havoc after the Orokin were killed. There was no inspiration for the makers of Vlad at the time, as the Sentient in question had not made itself known.
       II. Non-integrated parts (just armor, or some kind of pet, etc.)
            a. alive. No lore break, as it could have joined up with Vlad afterward and found a mutually beneficial relationship.
                          1. Would have to be pretty dumb to work with a Tenno consistently,
                          2. Must have no link to a larger Sentient mind, like the Eidolon or Hunhow. Wisps seem to act on their own, so they would work.
                          3. Must be isolated from all Warframe abilities that channel raw Void, and channeling in general, so that it isn't damaged by the partnership.
            b. dead. Would require structures on the warframe that we don't see in game...  so, half of a lore break? That said, this one would be the easiest to fix via a cosmetic update to the frame.
                          1. A built-in Amp would be pretty hard to miss.

II-a is the only option that accounts for all of the variables in lore and art; a warframe and a Sentient working together as two separate creatures. My warframe rework idea for Vlad capitalizes on this, using the Warframe as an amplifier for a wisp-like Sentient's abilities; a warframe that isn't normally wwell suited for combat taking a functional role through developments after its creation, only requiring a minor cosmetic update to fit its new theme... something that we can do in lore.

Meanwhile, II-b would work as well; I'd love to see a Warframe covered in what amounts to Amp-cannons, but this would change the look of Mr. beardy mcVlad-face.

I hope this makes it easier to understand what we're talking about when we say lore break?

Very clearly put together!

[FierceRadiance]

I'm thinking they should call him 'Belmont'. But I'm old-school...

[-Bv-Psykiik]

when you say the new frame name is Vlad ..the next thing that hits my mind is blood a lot of blood and abilities based on blood and Impalement, i mean i expect a bada** psychic DPS killer warframe not CC frame that put the enemy on sleep !!! 

we have a lot tanky and CC frame beside you can't  use VLAD name on weak CC frame 

i know i know its early and abilities maybe change .. i just say my thought and hope VLAD can be assassin dps killer frame 

[WhiteMarker]

Never did they say his final name is Vlad.
Internally they refere to him as Vlad.
Don't make it sound as if they said something else.
 

[krc473]

4 minutes ago, Psykiik said:

i just say my thought and hope VLAD can be assassin dps killer frame

So really, DE could just call this frame "Bob" and you would be happier?

 

They could just save the name Vlad for another frame. I do not know if they have even confirmed the name yet.

[Syasob]

Most important is that 'Vlad' is a placeholder name. They'll surely come up with something like 'fancy bearded man' in Tenno language before release.

[AlanerPL]

Yeah, his abilities should be based on blood. It would be nice to have one CC ability tho, something like he control blood of his enemies in the certain area and immobilize them. Other than that, he could boil enemy's blood and make them explode(if they have low amount of HP left) and thus damaging others. Maybe even something like reopening wounds for enemies.

[-Bv-Psykiik]

Just now, krc473 said:

So really, DE could just call this frame "Bob" and you would be happier?

 

They could just save the name Vlad for another frame. I do not know if they have even confirmed the name yet.

they introduced in dev so yah its confirmed ..i think 

[krc473]

1 minute ago, Psykiik said:

they introduced in dev so yah its confirmed ..i think 

No, they said it was a placeholder name. They are internally calling it Vlad.

 

In the same way as Nitain Extracts are called "Alertium"

Edited June 7, 2018 by krc473

[StinkyPygmy]

1 minute ago, Psykiik said:

they introduced in dev so yah its confirmed ..i think 

Its not. Vlad was explicitly said to be a placeholder name.

Edited June 7, 2018 by StinkyPygmy
ninja'd

[Synpai]

1 minute ago, Psykiik said:

they introduced in dev so yah its confirmed ..i think 

They said multiple....like...multiple times that Vlad was a placeholder name

 

[(XBOX)CynNex]

1 minute ago, Psykiik said:

they introduced in dev so yah its confirmed ..i think 

Not necessarily, as far as I remember Harrow was named something else when they originally raised the idea in devstream and I'm sure they've done that with several others as well (Octavia as well if memory serves)

[Chewarette]

"Codename"

Plus, why would an IMPALED enemy move ? I don't see why an Impaling Warframe would not control enemies. Plus, a DPS-only Warframe with no control would be very limited.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

4 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

The only part of Sentients that we know to be capable of withstanding Void energy are their bones, as Hunhow directly told us. "Natah, you would trust tis orokin blood, that would chisel weaponf from our bones?"

And if bones can withstand it, whats the difference with sentient cores/shards.

4 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

At the same time, even mild exposure to the Void causes them to degrade at an incredible rate, as evidenced by the crumbling excuses for Battalysts and Conculysts we fight in Octavia's Anthem... and they practically fell apart even with Suda shielding them.

That was far from mild exposure. They were in the void and Suda-Hunhow's shielding was barely able to shield them. 

 

5 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

Sentient Warframe
     I. Integrated parts
             a. alive. Problem; Sentient Phylaxis is poison to Technocyte (the stuff Warframes are made of), giving them complete immunity, and the Void kills Sentients. The organisms involved are mutually harmful to each other. Thus; lore break.
             b. dead. Solves the mutually poisonous xenobiology, but... Problem; timeline. Thus; lore break.

 

Eidolon Phylaxis was specifically manufactured to be poison to technocyte by exploiting Sentient's immunity to it. No different from taking the blood of a person who is immune to a virus and synthesizing a cure from it. Nothing in the lore suggests or says that Sentients are outright poisonous to technocyte. Other than that I'm not understanding what you're trying to say here with alive and dead.

Spoiler

         1. We don't have the tech to build our own Warframes... only clone the leftover scraps that we managed to hide away from the Orokin. It can't be done now that we've lost the developing scientists... well, all save one, but I doubt the Silver Grove is willing to help.
                          2. The Eidolon (the specific Sentient our buddy Vlad is based on) appeared and wreaked havoc after the Orokin were killed. There was no inspiration for the makers of Vlad at the time, as the Sentient in question had not made itself known.

Well obviously all base warframes are copies of the primes but that in itself is unknown on which came first. And the Eidolon is still a Sentient.  DE saying Eidolon is purely from a design/thematic point of view that has nothing to do with the lore. Not to mention that Eidolons are the broken pieces of the colossal Sentient that Gara destroyed so the timeline of events is still intact.

 

5 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:

  II. Non-integrated parts (just armor, or some kind of pet, etc.)
            a. alive. No lore break, as it could have joined up with Vlad afterward and found a mutually beneficial relationship.
                          1. Would have to be pretty dumb to work with a Tenno consistently,
                          2. Must have no link to a larger Sentient mind, like the Eidolon or Hunhow. Wisps seem to act on their own, so they would work.
                          3. Must be isolated from all Warframe abilities that channel raw Void, and channeling in general, so that it isn't damaged by the partnership.
            b. dead. Would require structures on the warframe that we don't see in game...  so, half of a lore break? That said, this one would be the easiest to fix via a cosmetic update to the frame.

1

What's the point of this part? The Sentinel codex did mention that Sentinels closely resembled the Sentients but bared no aggression as the difference from the enemy of the tenno. Whether that counts or not idk. 

..I chose the wrong time to reply and fell asleep so I forgot what I was gonna say.

Long story short. We already have Shadow Stalker who was bestowed sentient abilities from Hunhow. Whether he is wearing armor or not, he has to bepower his sentient powers from somewhere. 

And another piece that I haven't seen people mentioned is that the orokin themselves are the ones who engineered the sentient weakness to the void. What says that they can't undo it? Then there's Kuva which we know from the Gara lore, in some way can heal Sentients (due to being able to restore the permanent damage that prevented them from replication)