Update 23: Mods, Forma, and Destruction of Builds

[Voltage]

New Mods

With The Sacrifice, you are awarded five new mods. Three of these mods are for Warframes and are "Umbral" and two of them are melee and are "Sacrificial". These mods are as follows:

Spoiler

Umbral:

Sacrificial:

Some of these mods are extremely important to slot onto most Warframes. The synergy between Umbral Vitality and Fiber can be useful on Valkyr, Nidus, Inaros, and more. Umbral Intensify is essentially Primed Intensify with a polarity that you cannot Forma in. This right here is a problem in my opinion. You can still fit these new mods, but this requires the player to destroy their Forma setups on most Warframe builds. This would not be a problem for me, as I enjoy grinding, but as Profile XP resets with Forma, I am hesitant to Forma my Nova Prime because I will lose 172 million XP that I have accumulated over the last 3 years.

These mods are quite interesting to slot onto many Melee and Warframe builds, but I believe a solution to make them worthwhile is needed and quite simple:

1) Warframe and weapon slots should be able to be polarized as an Umbra slot. This is simple. Players should be able to polarize any slot on gear with the new polarity. It promotes build diversity and adds a layer of grind worth both a veteran's and new player's time.

2) Applying Forma to gear should no longer reset XP. What I mean by this is as follows:

On 2018-06-15 at 7:26 PM, --Q--Voltage said:

Applying Forma to a gear item locks your "XP" statistic on your profile until you reach that value + 1 from 0 to progress this counter. What does that mean? Well here is my test to display the bug.

Here is Equinox:

Equinox applies one Forma and proceeds to level.

410,985 Affinity is earned from a mission. After returning to the ship, the profile still displays the previous value: 14,060,714. The value should be 14,060,714 + 410,985 or 14,471,699 Affinity. This is because applying Forma to any gear item resets your affinity to 0 and requires you to reach your previous affinity number before counting onward. This will end up displaying incorrect statistics as the XP value will not be showing Affinity gained in between Formas.

This does not matter whether the gear item is between level 0 and 30. This bug stays after your gear is rank 30. This is displayed in the second video below. Regardless of your gear's level, your profile affinity is reset to zero under the hood and locks your current XP statistic.

Here is a video format of the bug in question:

  Reveal hidden contents

Maxed Warframe Test which still shows a bugged XP statistic:

 

I bring this to light because new mods and Exalted modding may reset years worth of XP on the profile page. It would be fantastic if this was addressed, because millions or even billions of affinity could be lost due to applying Forma on years old Warframes.

This bug report is the origin of the above information.

Exalted Weapon Modding

Another addition with this update is the ability to mod exalted weapons. This is an amazing idea as you can now use a Riven Mod on your normal weapon and still have peak potential of your exalted weapon. First off, the stance mod should have a polarity that adds 10 capacity to exalted melee weapons. 60 mod capacity with Sacrificial mods existing is extremely tight and requires much more Forma compared to normal melee weapons. This is my current Forma count for Warframes with exalted weapons:

Spoiler

With the addition of Warframe exalted weapon modding, I will have to invest 4-5 Forma into Exalted Blade, 4-5 into Umbra Exalted Blade, 4-5 into Artemis Bow, 4-5 into Regulators, 2-3 into Dex Pixia, 3-4 into Diwata, and 3-4 into Iron Staff. This means that Warframes with exalted weapons must require double the Forma of a normal Warframe to function. I don't understand why Mesa requires 9-10 Forma or why Titania requires 9-11 Forma to be min-maxed.

Applying Forma to the main Warframe should grant players a single free polarity to their exalted weapon (not vice versa). Gear would still need to be leveled. A change like this would not punish players for using exalted weapons. It would promote applying Forma to the Warframe to enhance their exalted weapons, while still giving players the option to Forma the weapon additionally with more than the Warframe.

All in all, Update 23: The Sacrifice has completely shifted the Meta of modding and punishes players for their years of investment. New mods cannot be polarized for, and exalted weapons require double the investment for the same outcome.

Edited June 17, 2018 by --Q--Voltage
Grammar, Added Bug Report Thread, Formatting

[Chewarette]

Wow, I wasn't aware the Profile XP was affected by Formas like that. Always thought it was some kind of overall XP gained for each item.

Fully agreed for Exalted weapons. Even more when Titania, Wukong, Mesa and Ivara are yet to be Primed. This change is boring for vets but I guess it will be even more tedious for newplayers, who won't understand why those frames are different and why their abilities are dealing crap damage.

And thanks for the spoilers, can't say anything about the new Sacrifice things, still downloading. 😛

[Errodin]

13 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

 These mods are quite interesting to slot onto many Melee and Warframe builds, but I believe a solution to make them worthwhile is needed and quite simple:

1) Warframe and weapon slots should be able to be polarized as an Umbra slot. This is simple. Players should be able to polarize any slot on gear with the new polarity. It promotes build diversity and adds a layer of grind worth both a veteran's and new player's time.

I'm totally behind you in this ... since the cost of those mods are so great ... but to me it makes sense that they dont offer the polarity ... maybe because the sacrifice is more than the story itself but rather what we have to pay to use these new mods (and i dare say the stats are generous).

I cant really touch on much else of what you've said until i experience it myself. Collective XP never really bothered me so losing it wont as well. As for Exalted weapons, i'm sure i'll get there.

[Oreades]

5 minutes ago, Errodin said:

I'm totally behind you in this ... since the cost of those mods are so great ... but to me it makes sense that they dont offer the polarity ... maybe because the sacrifice is more than the story itself but rather what we have to pay to use these new mods (and i dare say the stats are generous).

I cant really touch on much else of what you've said until i experience it myself. Collective XP never really bothered me so losing it wont as well. As for Exalted weapons, i'm sure i'll get there.

Eh the stats on the new mods are kinda meh, most of them don't compare to the Primed variants. 

I guess they will be more relevant when DE adds sentient Tiles/Faction which will likely be Soon™

Which will probably also usher in the new Polarizer that will be able to add Umbra polarities to frames/weapons. 

[allibound]

I'm honestly shocked the forums aren't burning in the wake of a horde of angry, frothing, pictchfork-toting players screaming about the 20+ forma we've effectively lost.  I'm at a loss for words at how much of a setback this is for me in time and effort.  All this wait for a quest I did casually in 1 evening and now a month-long grind just to get back to where I was.  Crap like this is why I stop playing for months on end, and why almost none of my friends ever log in anymore.

[SANYA501]

32 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Applying Forma to the main Warframe should grant players a single free polarity to their exalted weapon (and not vice versa). Gear would still need to be leveled.

YES PLS DE.....PLSSSS

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, allibound said:

I'm honestly shocked the forums aren't burning in the wake of a horde of angry, frothing, pictchfork-toting players screaming about the 20+ forma we've effectively lost.  I'm at a loss for words at how much of a setback this is for me in time and effort.  All this wait for a quest I did casually in 1 evening and now a month-long grind just to get back to where I was.  Crap like this is why I stop playing for months on end, and why almost none of my friends ever log in anymore.

The thing is we haven't technically lost the forma. We can still use the weapons other places, they are still pretty nice. So I have no qualms about that. Heck that's why the old system worked.

My two biggest qualms and I have been voicing them since the announcement on the Dev stream is that, 

1. All the change does is effectively increase the build cost of any frame with an Exalted weapon. Which makes them specifically prohibitive to newer players. 
2. We don't get any Mastery XP for leveling out Exalted weapons even tho we are putting just as much effort into them as any standard weapon. 

[Praesagium]

hace 2 minutos, allibound dijo:

I'm honestly shocked the forums aren't burning in the wake of a horde of angry, frothing, pictchfork-toting players screaming about the 20+ forma we've effectively lost.  I'm at a loss for words at how much of a setback this is for me in time and effort.  All this wait for a quest I did casually in 1 evening and now a month-long grind just to get back to where I was.  Crap like this is why I stop playing for months on end, and why almost none of my friends ever log in anymore.

Because i believe, dont get me wrong i not trying ot bash anyone, but if we complain about the forma dump that this update is (talking about the exalted weapons) nobody will say anything because for them its not a problem farming/dumping forma on their exalted weapons.

Man i wasted 4 more forma on mesa regulators and 3 on ivara artemis bow. Its like khora's venari who needs like 5 forma. Lucky me, my exalted blade and valkyr's talons build didnt need more forma, or i was gonna spend like 12-14 forma just for exalted weapons. 

[Volinus7]

Regrind patch is pretty straightforward this time lol. 

An accretion that doesn't really improve gameplay nicely hidden behind another layer of unnecessary marginal mechanics. 

Here's a nice suggestion, add an expiration date to powercreep mods so people could grind all day long under specified time limited mission, limited community boss hp, high rotation low percentage drop chance again and again without the need to create new items. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Volinus7

[allibound]

19 minutes ago, Oreades said:

The thing is we haven't technically lost the forma. We can still use the weapons other places, they are still pretty nice. So I have no qualms about that. Heck that's why the old system worked.

My two biggest qualms and I have been voicing them since the announcement on the Dev stream is that, 

1. All the change does is effectively increase the build cost of any frame with an Exalted weapon. Which makes them specifically prohibitive to newer players. 
2. We don't get any Mastery XP for leveling out Exalted weapons even tho we are putting just as much effort into them as any standard weapon. 

It's not the weapons I care about, it's the warframes.  I now have several warframes that I invested time and effort into building and configuring that are no longer finished products.  I need to re-invest more than a dozen forma just to get back to where I was.  That is the very definition of "Loss".  I had something I earned.  I no longer have it.  If I want it back, I need to earn it again.

[Misgenesis]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

1) Warframe and weapon slots should be able to be polarized as an Umbra slot. This is simple. Players should be able to polarize any slot on gear with the new polarity. It promotes build diversity and adds a layer of grind worth both a veteran's and new player's time.

Yes, lets do away with the balancing of these mods shall we? Unless they increased the capacity drain further there would be no way to make this work.

Did anyone consider that in order to make use of these mods you would have to deliberately Sacrifice for it.

[Oreades]

23 minutes ago, allibound said:

It's not the weapons I care about, it's the warframes.  I now have several warframes that I invested time and effort into building and configuring that are no longer finished products.  I need to re-invest more than a dozen forma just to get back to where I was.  That is the very definition of "Loss".  I had something I earned.  I no longer have it.  If I want it back, I need to earn it again.

Oh I definitely get the sense of irritation.

Personally it isn't about the resources, I have "ton" of forma laying around. Tho that is probably why they are (more than likely) going to be adding the Umbra Polarizing MacGuffin as it's own thing. For me It's more having to live in some XP cave somewhere for an indeterminant amount of time. Especially without even having as much as an pat on the head from the game in the form of Mastery points.

However for new players its just so much more investment in a single frame. I remember a time where I wouldn't even entertain building out a frame if I couldn't find a "good" build that was two or at max three forma and three was really pushing it. If I couldn't find one I just didn't touch the frame, which means I probably never would have given Titania the second look that made her my favorite frame. 

The Old system worked because there was a benefit outside of just leveling the Frame. Now there is no such benefit. It's just "This is an 8 forma build now". 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Oreades

[Metal-]

Full support: Warframe and weapon slots should be able to be polarized as an Umbra slot.

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 1 heure, --Q--Voltage a dit :

New Mods

With The Sacrifice, you are awarded five new mods. Three of these mods are for Warframes and are "Umbral" and two of them are melee and are "Sacrificial". These mods are as follows:

  Masquer le contenu

Umbral:

Sacrificial:

Some of these mods are extremely important to slot onto most Warframes. The synergy between Umbral Vitality and Fiber can be useful on Valkyr, Nidus, Inaros, and more. Umbral Intensify is essentially Primed Intensify with a polarity that you cannot Forma in. This right here is a problem in my opinion. You can still fit these new mods, but this requires the player to destroy their Forma setups on most Warframe builds. This would not be a problem for me, as I enjoy grinding, but as Profile XP resets with Forma, I am hesitant to Forma my Nova Prime because I will lose 172 million XP that I have accumulated over the last 3 years. 

These mods are quite interesting to slot onto many Melee and Warframe builds, but I believe a solution to make them worthwhile is needed and quite simple:

1) Warframe and weapon slots should be able to be polarized as an Umbra slot. This is simple. Players should be able to polarize any slot on gear with the new polarity. It promotes build diversity and adds a layer of grind worth both a veteran's and new player's time.

2) Applying Forma to gear should no longer reset XP. What I mean by this is as follows:

Currently, this is my Nova Prime:

If I were to Forma her for the 7th time, that number would stay stagnant until I earned another 172,469,920 + 1 XP. This should not be the case. A welcome change to address this is that Forma should freeze your XP earned until you are level 30 again. This way, players can apply Forma to fit Umbra Mods and not feel like years of Affinity gain has gone down the drain.

Exalted Weapon Modding

Another addition with this update is the ability to mod exalted weapons. This is an amazing idea as you can now use a Riven Mod on your Melee and still have peak potential of your exalted melee. First off, the stance mod should have a polarity that adds to your capacity on melee weapons. 60 mod capacity with Sacrificial mods existing is extremely tight and requires much more Forma compared to normal melee weapons. This is my current Forma count for Warframes with exalted weapons:

  Masquer le contenu

With the addition of Warframe exalted weapon modding, I will have to invest 4-5 Forma into Exalted Blade, 4-5 into Umbra Exalted Blade, 4-5 into Artemis Bow, 4-5 into Regulators, 2-3 into Dex Pixia, 3-4 into Diwata, and 3-4 into Iron Staff. This means that Warframes with exalted weapons must require double the Forma of a normal Warframe to function. I don't understand why Mesa requires 9-10 Forma or why Titania requires 9-11 Forma to be min-maxed.

Applying Forma to the main Warframe should grant players a single free polarity to their exalted weapon (not vice versa). Gear would still need to be leveled. A change like this would not punish players for using exalted weapons. It would promote applying Forma their Warframe to enhance their exalted weapons, while still giving you the option to Forma the weapon additionally with more than your Warframe.

All in all, Update 23: The Sacrifice has completely shifted the Meta of modding and punishes players for their years of investment. New mods cannot be polarized for, and exalted weapons require double the investment for the same outcome.

I dont agree with the Umbra Polarity .. that is what set Excal Umbra from the other frames ..I would prefer they keep it this way until they release more umbra Frames, because they probaby will..

The forma XP i can agree with..

I dont know what you are doing with the exalted weapon formaing.. But my Exalted blade has I think 2 more formas ... so the Umbra one will take the same ... My artemis Bow Only have 1 more forma (i could do maybe 1 more ).. Regulators were 3 formas .. Dex Pixia were I think 2... Diwata is just bad even with the new changes didnt even forma them ..  I didnt bother that much with Iron Staff (1formas)  but i Could see 2 formas.. .. And I'm pretty sure my exalted weapons builds are min maxed ...  And I cant see how Mesa Titania Wukong and Ivara need so many formas.. But I'm not here to see how you built them ...

I kind of agree that the need for forma with Frames that are already forma'd a lot of them is kinda ridiculous .. Looks at Khora and Venera.. She need herself like 4-5 .. and Venari need 5-6 .. This is a ridiculous investment to make a frame worth it IMO ... It is the same with the new exalted weapons .. Like you said "This means that Warframes with exalted weapons must require more Formas than a normal Warframe to function" ....This is completly stupid to have even for me and my Mesa, 6-7 formas invested just to make it a super good frame

Edited June 15, 2018 by MunsuLight

[--LA--Vengeance]

I don't agree that warframe should get umbra slot.

However, forma is really annoying. Let me at least put 5 forma at once or something. Worst part is how we gonna invest bunch of forma in Titania,Mesa,Wukong,Ivara then they get a Prime and forma goes to waste + repeat all over. Dunno why not simple making some synergy between forma and warframe and let's say if we invested 5 forma in them,we get 5 polarity slots for exalted weapons too.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Vengeance_A

[GrayArchon]

I don't think the Umbra polarity should be able to be put on non-Umbra frames. I like that there's something that sets them apart, and I'm hoping more Umbra frames are coming. I think it's perfectly reasonable that you should destroy your build to fit these mods on there. This power should not be available for free (a little melodramatic, but that's my take).

Exalted weapons... eh. It's a forma grind. I don't see much of a problem here, especially for veteran, enfranchised players. Forma is forma.

About the profile XP thing, that does seem like it should be fixed. I don't even know why it works that way.

[Grimmzi]

3 hours ago, MunsuLight said:

I dont agree with the Umbra Polarity .. that is what set Excal Umbra from the other frames ..I would prefer they keep it this way until they release more umbra Frames, because they probaby will..

The forma XP i can agree with..

I dont know what you are doing with the exalted weapon formaing.. But my Exalted blade has I think 2 more formas ... so the Umbra one will take the same ... My artemis Bow Only have 1 more forma (i could do maybe 1 more ).. Regulators were 3 formas .. Dex Pixia were I think 2... Diwata is just bad even with the new changes didnt even forma them ..  I didnt bother that much with Iron Staff (1formas)  but i Could see 2 formas.. .. And I'm pretty sure my exalted weapons builds are min maxed ...  And I cant see how Mesa Titania Wukong and Ivara need so many formas.. But I'm not here to see how you built them ...

I kind of agree that the need for forma with Frames that are already forma'd a lot of them is kinda ridiculous .. Looks at Khora and Venera.. She need herself like 4-5 .. and Venari need 5-6 .. This is a ridiculous investment to make a frame worth it IMO ... It is the same with the new exalted weapons .. Like you said "This means that Warframes with exalted weapons must require more Formas than a normal Warframe to function" ....This is completly stupid to have even for me and my Mesa, 6-7 formas invested just to make it a super good frame

i agree with this,the umbra polarity is what sets umbra to be different as compared to others

[Lawmonark]

I am not a huge fan of this new polarity. 

Wish it was a "universal polarity", meaning all polarities could use it.

Maybe make a "Umbra Forma" that unlocks it. These new mods really break a lot of my frames. 

So many formas.....

[Rekalty]

Totally agree, I get that DE needs to make money, but this just seems excessive.

[Grimmzi]

3 minutes ago, Krhymez said:

I am not a huge fan of this new polarity. 

Wish it was a "universal polarity", meaning all polarities could use it.

Maybe make a "Umbra Forma" that unlocks it. These new mods really break a lot of my frames. 

So many formas.....

would defeat the purpose of excal umbra would it? as a normal excal can just get the "umbra forma"

Edited June 15, 2018 by Grimmzi

[WhiteCr0w]

3 hours ago, MunsuLight said:

I dont know what you are doing with the exalted weapon formaing.. But my Exalted blade has I think 2 more formas ... so the Umbra one will take the same ... My artemis Bow Only have 1 more forma (i could do maybe 1 more ).. Regulators were 3 formas .. Dex Pixia were I think 2... Diwata is just bad even with the new changes didnt even forma them ..  I didnt bother that much with Iron Staff (1formas)  but i Could see 2 formas.. .. And I'm pretty sure my exalted weapons builds are min maxed ...  And I cant see how Mesa Titania Wukong and Ivara need so many formas.. But I'm not here to see how you built them ...

This is a case of extreme min-maxing, which most players won't bother with considering it isn't required to complete content. Attempting to argue a point based on extreme edge-case scenarios that won't affect a high percentage of players isn't really a strong argument. Is it frustrating what they did? Certainly.

I also agree that an Umbra Polarity is .. ridiculous. Come on. You're completely missing the point of Umbra and its relationship with these Sacrificial mods. If they could be polarized for, you've essentially made every other Frame "Umbra-like". I don't understand this community and I don't think I ever will.

[Nax__]

Is that how Profile XP really works? Seems like a bug.

[Equilibrior]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb --Q--Voltage:

2) Applying Forma to gear should no longer reset XP. What I mean by this is as follows:

Currently, this is my Nova Prime:

If I were to Forma her for the 7th time, that number would stay stagnant until I earned another 172,469,920 + 1 XP. This should not be the case. A welcome change to address this is that Forma should freeze your XP earned until you are level 30 again. This way, players can apply Forma to fit Umbra Mods and not feel like years of Affinity gain has gone down the drain. 

In what way does the accumulated XP with one frame have any effect on the game after he is maxed once.

To my knowledge this number just represents how much affinity this frame has collected, nothing more.

Do you have a source that explains this number deeper?

[MangoSlic3]

no, umbra polarities should be unique to umbra warframes. so as to set them apart from the rest, using them on other frames can be cool but you will have to figure out how to build around them, but an umbral polarity should only go on an umbra frame.

Apart from that, i agree with everything else

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by MangoSlic3

[Magnostorm]

I'd suggest to let you be able to save polarities on forma'd slots so you can change polarity if you have forma'd that one already. Another suggestion is to be able to set mod rank lower than the rank you have leveled the mod to. Both have been suggested elsewhere before.

This way we can still use all the new mods and tweak it to our specific builds if needed (somewhat more build diversity) and still make the new umbra mods/weapons/frames feel unique. Making umbra polarities formable takes away the "uniqueness" and also simply increases the strength cap.