The attitude of Devs toward Reb Data was a bit sad

[Midrib]

If i was Rebecca, I would feel more disrespected by people speaking for me, judging the professionalism of my Co-Workers who i had been working with for over 5 years, based on 4 minutes of banter.

To put it bluntly, It does not concern you, me, or anyone. Its between them, and if she felt disrespected, I trust that she would tell them in a way that is professional, they're adults after all.

Please stop the trend of getting offended on behalf of other people, its makes the people you try to "protect" feel even more offended.

On the joke thing,

Bad joke is bad, no denying it. but you already know that they are doing the opposite of the joke by reworking Nyx. to feel a little sting because your favorite stuff hasn't been touched in years is understandable, but at the end of the day it was a joke, just a silly remark with the sole purpose of being silly, no point in getting offended over it.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Midrib

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

You did hear Reb saying “shut up” right in their face right? It was obviously just mild troll attempt jokes. And you know what who decides whether it’s uncomfortable or not? It’s them, not you. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by (PS4)johnsoigne

[Iludra]

I have to agree with OP here. I don't mind jokes and banter, but I get annoyed if all they do is joke around while interrupting the content that I came to hear. I found their yesterday's behavior rude and disrespectful - not to Rebecca, but to me as a viewer. It was difficult to watch.

[Helch0rn]

10 hours ago, Cloud said:

The data she collected is really precious and should guide next implements. The only parameter I saw not considered is time (which is really valuable), since as for example in the sheet Harrow and Nyx were at the same level of usage, but we must consider Harrow is a fresh frame while Nyx is old content in a time when the choice was much smaller.

They literally said that the stats are the usage tracked over a single week

[Hypernaut1]

If pointless rant complaints like this post grow, it'll just lead to even more restrictive Dev streams where they have to tip toe around everything and only talk about things releasing the very next week.

Anyway... The joke was CLEARLY sarcasm criticising themselves. 

[Tellakey]

33 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If pointless rant complaints like this post grow, it'll just lead to even more restrictive Dev streams where they have to tip toe around everything and only talk about things releasing the very next week.

Anyway... The joke was CLEARLY sarcasm criticising themselves. 

Yup. And they say oversensitivity is not a bad thing.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tellakey

[(PSN)robotwars7]

dunno what the problem is when you can probably access those Graphs yourself, they're probably on Google Images at the very least. as a general rule of thumb, frames that haven't been touched at all or in a very long time are the ones not being used as much (Nyx for example). Nyx and Vauban will be getting reworks, then after that we can start pushing for Nezha, Wukong and others to be looked at when possible.

[(PSN)thowed]

This is nothing but White Knighting.  If it was another guy, let's be honest, this topic wouldn't exist.  Defend it and make excuses, you know I'm right either way.  People feel the need to justify things when called out.  

[-QUILL_PETER-]

9 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

That's like the opposite of white knighting. White knighting would be defending the devs, like many people are doing here.

Obviously I intended that for the people going full tryhard to defend poor poor Rebecca from the ebil devs 'making fun of her charts'...

[DrakeWurrum]

14 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

They're joking with a fellow co-worker, not disrespecting her. Stop taking things so seriously. The devstreams have rarely been the place to display professionalism. 

Because words matter, and the social dynamics between men and women in the workplace are a very serious problem. Remember what was revealed about Riot's bro culture recently after a 6-month long investigation.

Respect in the workplace is everything, and just because a woman is playing along instead of making a fuss about it doesn't mean she's okay with it.

In the case of "light trolling" or "It was just a joke" - it can quickly evolve into something worse. If you get away with something mild, and you get away with that mildness often enough, you eventually feel secure enough to take it further and test your limits. This kind of nonsense needs to be stopped hard at the beginning before it actually becomes a real problem.

5 hours ago, Midrib said:

Its between them, and if she felt disrespected, I trust that she would tell them in a way that is professional, they're adults after all.

More often than not, that's not the case. Women will often put up with things, rather than risk their job or social standing. Especially in workplace environments surrounded by male peers.

5 hours ago, (PS4)johnsoigne said:

You did hear Reb saying “shut up” right in their face right? It was obviously just mild troll attempt jokes. And you know what who decides whether it’s uncomfortable or not? It’s them, not you. 

Something to point out about workplace harassment where I work: Even if the alleged "victim" is not offended, you being bothered by the incident is enough to report to HR about the situation if it's a violation of workplace policy. In other words, you're entirely justified in making a fuss when you see OTHER people being mistreated, because we humans are supposed to look out for each other.
And I work in a manufacturing plant instead of an office, where there's plenty of man-centric culture.

Edited August 18, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[Vox_Preliator]

Alternatively:  They're friends giving each other S#&$ as friends tend to do.

Either way, not really our business.

[(PSN)VaNiDgE]

5 hours ago, Midrib said:

If i was Rebecca, I would feel more disrespected by people speaking for me, judging the professionalism of my Co-Workers who i had been working with for over 5 years, based on 4 minutes of banter.

To put it bluntly, It does not concern you, me, or anyone. Its between them, and if she felt disrespected, I trust that she would tell them in a way that is professional, they're adults after all.

Please stop the trend of getting offended on behalf of other people, its makes the people you try to "protect" feel even more offended.

On the joke thing,

Bad joke is bad, no denying it. but you already know that they are doing the opposite of the joke by reworking Nyx. to feel a little sting because your favorite stuff hasn't been touched in years is understandable, but at the end of the day it was a joke, just a silly remark with the sole purpose of being silly, no point in getting offended over it.

This is my feeling also, to many people feeling offended or taking thing that's are light hearted and make a mountain of it. It reminds me of a joke DE did when Destiny 2 came out of Cayde 2 in the orbiter, saying something like " we got your back" but of course people who read stuff wrong or like to get triggered thought it was a unprofessional dig at bungie. 

People just need to stop getting triggered. If reb was annoyed she would have handled it. Done move along.

Edited August 18, 2018 by (PS4)VaNiDgE

[Shiichibukai]

Heeere we goooo. The offended snowflakes are showing up. My god, it doesnt concern any of you.

[RizzRustbolt]

Frankly, I like it when developers are less involved with the meta-game. If they base most of their decisions on the meta, then we'd end up with WoW in Space. And I'm pretty sure no one here wants that.

[Sloan441]

15 hours ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

 ...are extremely lackluster, like Nezha for example. 

I'd disagree. Nezha, as much as I dislike the 'frame, is quite effective. His main problem is he's too much like Rhino and came second. And visually, he's...well, lets call it not very compelling. 

As for the graphs. I like this sort of thing, but as a viewer, I could make very little out of them watching second hand on YouTube. At a glance, which is all I really had in this venue, what they looked to portray is newer 'frames see more use, whether it's new new, new revamp, or just new out of the vault. Players with more experience in the game seem to have more egalitarian perferences in warframes and more access to stuff that is now vaulted when compared to newer players--and are also a minority. 

Also, whenever someone trots out a PowerPoint display at work, the groans and complaints are inevitable. The data might be useful, even vital, but no one likes sitting through these sorts of meetings. 

Interesting, but admit it: you were all hoping for Garuda tidbits and maybe some prime trailer teasers. I was. 

[DrakeWurrum]

2 minutes ago, Shiichibukai said:

My god, it doesnt concern any of you.

It concerns everybody. That's the whole point of living in a society with other humans instead of living in a shack out in the woods.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)VaNiDgE said:

 If reb was annoyed she would have handled it. along.

This is not necessarily the case, and in the vast majority of situations of women being annoyed with the way men treat them in the workplace... no, it doesn't happen.

[DrakeWurrum]

Just now, RizzRustbolt said:

Frankly, I like it when developers are less involved with the meta-game. If they base most of their decisions on the meta, then we'd end up with WoW in Space. And I'm pretty sure no one here wants that.

The problem with that is this "meta" reveals flaws in their game design, if you pay attention to the reasons behind it. Look at how many people post in the forums regularly about Vauban being lackluster compared to other frames who can do a better job.

The problem with WoW is that Blizzard embraces their meta, rather than trying to balance it. They play favorites with certain classes, and everybody knows it. I still remember the bus shock incident.

[Sloan441]

Just now, DrakeWurrum said:

 

...vast majority of situations of women being annoyed with the way men treat them in the workplace... no, it doesn't happen.

I'm going to call BS. Where I work, if you annoy the distaff--even over trivial issues--you're going to hear about it. Lots.

Moreover, long after the situation that prompted said annoyance has faded into the rear-view mirror of history, you'll still hear about it from time to time. 

[BETAOPTICS]

I do not agree with your analysis because there is a form of humor that is meant to play a caricature of themselves by playing the role of inappropriate and unprofessional. The whole point of said form of humor is to make fun of the idea of their own shortcomings, which means their previous lacking data on Warframe use and lack of modernizing older content appropriately.

But I do agree with your conclusions and honestly it would strengthen their co-working relationship to at least point out this data is useful, and I hope they do even if we do not see it on the live spot. It is useful data, though there would be few points the scientist in me would add for context (how do Sorties, Acolytes or other content influence playtime? Playtime is not necessarily descriptive of functionality or overall health, such as in the case of exploits the data would be biased).

Edited August 18, 2018 by BETAOPTICS

[RizzRustbolt]

8 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

The problem with that is this "meta" reveals flaws in their game design, if you pay attention to the reasons behind it. Look at how many people post in the forums regularly about Vauban being lackluster compared to other frames who can do a better job.

The problem with WoW is that Blizzard embraces their meta, rather than trying to balance it. They play favorites with certain classes, and everybody knows it. I still remember the bus shock incident.

Agreed. But I still think DE is handling it better. Rebecca's job is to liase with the community, they have a stats team that handles the meta, and the Devs take input from both. And it's not like they haven't talked about working with the stats to guide their reworks in past Devstreams.

[Tellakey]

2 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

I'm going to call BS. Where I work, if you annoy the distaff--even over trivial issues--you're going to hear about it. Lots.

Moreover, long after the situation that prompted said annoyance has faded into the rear-view mirror of history, you'll still hear about it from time to time. 

Thank you.

Where I come from, if a woman dislikes you in the workplace she can pretty much get you fired. And if you dare speak about the extra work you get because a female worker is not comfortable with her job or is just lazy you can expect a harsh reprimand from the boss. A female superior got me fired one time for not answering "okay" with enough enthusiasm when she instructed me. She actually told the boss I was rude for literally answering "okay" in a way that offended her.

Gotta love all this one-sided sexism toward men. Men are stinky and mean, women are powerless victims. Is there anything more sexist than implying a woman cannot stand up for herself in the workplace? Show an ounce of respect for Rebecca and trust her to handle her own business.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tellakey

[SneakyErvin]

I dont see the issue, it was a mild joke.

I think people may need to thicken their skin if this offends you, heck some of you need to actually grow skin first.

[Shiichibukai]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb DrakeWurrum:

It concerns everybody. That's the whole point of living in a society with other humans instead of living in a shack out in the woods.

No it does NOT concern you, you arent working with her, you arent working with Steve and them, YOU dont know how they are goofing around etc etc. It does NOT concern you at all. Stop being such a fragile snowflake when adults joke around at their workplace.

[Edelsid]

Whether they were joking around or not, this time could be better spent on other things. Like discussing the info they were given.

[Buzkyl]

3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Because words matter, and the social dynamics between men and women in the workplace are a very serious problem. Remember what was revealed about Riot's bro culture recently after a 6-month long investigation.

Respect in the workplace is everything, and just because a woman is playing along instead of making a fuss about it doesn't mean she's okay with it.

In the case of "light trolling" or "It was just a joke" - it can quickly evolve into something worse. If you get away with something mild, and you get away with that mildness often enough, you eventually feel secure enough to take it further and test your limits. This kind of nonsense needs to be stopped hard at the beginning before it actually becomes a real problem.

And we're able to deduce that something more insidious is through the brief 5 mins of an hour devstream.

Because it happens so often, right? These people know each other for 5 years at this point, longer if we count before warframe. It's workplace banter between friends.

If Rebecca wasn't respected she wouldn't be the face of the community, nor would she be given the task of designing Revanant.

Your heart is in the right place but it's a mountain of a mole hill