Traumtulpe

And that's where I stopped reading. Dude, if you know *nothing* about Saryn how about you just don't get involved in a discussion about her? Spores scale at a maximum of 14 damage per second before strength. That's the cap before strength, so it'll be 28 with 200% strength. You have clearly never ever even played Saryn.

You're being ridiculous, acting as if Atlas can't have more than 150% range while at the same time assuming >200% range on Saryn (because her Spores are not passive as you say with insufficient range). Your claim that you never use Slash procs from weapons just as much. So you never use Hunter Munitions? This only proves further that you have no clue what you are doing/talking about. There is no use arguing with you if you are going to make the most ridiculous and unrealistic assumtions, just for the sake of arguing.

That's ridiculous. If you mod Saryn for 150% range she's not going to work at all. This debuff has absolutely zero effect on Slash procs, which is the preferred way of killing enemies. So the most this can do is make bad weapons usable, but not in any way increase the damage of already good weapons. I was simply responding to the claim that Spores deal comparable damage to Landslide, and this claim was made by pretending that Landslide deals 200k damage (which I have proven false), and that the spread out chip damage that Spores do among all enemies should be considered equal to damage that can directly kills enemies (which is just objectively false on principle).

Yes please. Why can Ash teleport onto eximus units and finish them, or kill them with Bladestorm, but Garuda can't jump to them and get her shield? Because DE half-assed overguard, that's why. Come on DE, it's been broken for over 1 and a half years at this point. I know you are slow, but introducing broken enemies and then just never fixing them is not okay.

Here, some random build I cobbled together with 139 ability strength: The enemies kept dying before I could get the 4x Landslide combo because the damage was too high. And I used no riven, no Incarnon weapon (their evolutions work on Landslide), etc. - in other words, you can easily deal 20 times that damage. But then again even at level cap, enemies only have about 3m HP which this already oneshots. Compare with Spores, dealing 10 damage, and then another +14 damage per second, reaching 100k after a minimum of 2 full hours (a bit less if you have more strength) yeah, your whole argument doesn't make any sense. Like at all.

No, I disagree with everything you say. First of all, Landslide does not deal 200k damage but a lot more than that. A lot more. Second, we have Slash procs so Corrosive procs aren't really relevant unless you use sub-par weapons in the first place. No matter how you twist and turn it, Landslide deals vastly more damage than Spores do.

Hunter Munitions is generally better than innate Slash procs, unless you have a weapon with >50% Slash damage and quite high status chance. One of it's big advantages is that you can mod the weapon for Viral damage without reducing the Slash procs you get. If you have a weapon that innately procs Slash, and use HM on it, you'll get more procs is all. A good Weapon with HM will kill pretty much anything, so you can still use it on Hildryn, though if armor is not a concern any combination or single element of Viral/Heat is fantastic.

No, this is a real consideration that's completely applicable to games in practice. If you kill an enemy in one shot of your weapon, and you also have Spores deal 50% of the health of each enemy in damage by the time you get to shoot it, you might think your Spores did half the work, but in reality your Spores did nothing.

This is completely faulty thinking. You can deal 1 damage to a million enemies, that's technically a million damage, but in practice it has absolutely zero value.

And that was the point, Spores are a support ability that kills stragglers and softens targets up for your weapons. It does not deal 200k damage as claimed.

...this is so wrong on so many levels. Spores do literally 10 damage and have a decidedly mid status proc. What is that, their damage scales up? Yeah, to a hard cap of 100k, and it takes around 1.5 hours to get there. Meanwhile Landslide can deal tens of millions of damage instantly.

Glaive Prime has been oneshotting level cap for years, replacing a 15% ability strength shard on your frame for a +3 Corrosive Proc one isn't going to change anything about our power level. It just means we can use a lot more different weapons.

None of this gives us more power, just other ways to attain the same power. And there's no need to buff enemy HP, you can just cut the Viral status effect by 50% and suddenly everything is 2x as tanky.

That's correct actually, but for the most part 98% should suffice, considering that this retains the 75% damage bonus. I'd be interested to know if the cap increase also works on enemies that have a lower than usual cap.

I disagree with everything you said. Just one tauforged shard will give +3 proc cap, which is 100% armor strip. And this would make any weapon viable, worst case scenario you could use a primer to apply Corrosive. Also Saryn is not OP at all, not even a little bit. Every frame can nuke low levels just as good as her with Thermal Sunder, and at high levels all of her abilities have *zero* effect currently. Seriously, just using Mags Pull+armor strip is *vastly* superior to anything Saryn can do. Hek, just using Pull and a decent weapon already is.

Yes, but not really. See, Corrosive is perfectly fine at entry level Steel Path. It only falls off hard as the level increases - and at that point, I think it's perfectly valid to expect the player to invest some effort into keeping up with the scaling. A lot of weapons simply cannot make use of Slash procs, this will make them viable. It's great.

I'm really glad to see DE take a more experimental approach to these, and while there will likely be a bunch of misses in the available stats, just the increased Corrosive proc cap alone is already enough to get me hyped! Corrosive status hasn't been useful at higher levels since the nerf, and this will not only bring it back, it will also chip away at the dominance of Slash procs - it's not exactly powercreep either, since you still need to apply the extra stacks, you sacrifice a shard slot for it, and we already have Slash anyhow. More variety, more options, more toys to play with - that's what Warframe needs (and seemingly will get!).

Stat sticks being a thing means that rivens for warframe abilities are a thing. I don't think that's a positive in the abstract. On the other hand, I have zero faith that most of those abilities will still be relevant if you remove stat sticks - I mean, there's lot's of abilities that *don't* use stat sticks, like Ash's Shuriken or Embers Fireball, and they're all pretty much useless.

I'm all for it, Mach Rush in the Helminth. But please don't nerf it's speed by 50%, and the range of the augment by 50% as well, for good measure.

You might want to revisit your Garuda build, let me tell you I'd prefer her over Ash any day of the week if you told me to do a level cap run.

No, sorry but you have no clue what you're even talking about at this point. The people going to level cap with Ash don't do this because of Blade Storm - I would go insane if I had to kill enemies for several hours with that ability. And his passive is just a 25% damage bonus.

Like I said, I don't even use his Bladestorm build, and I've been to level cap just using weapons. So I for one would be very happy if he got reworked, even if this meant Bladestorm would deal no damage at all. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding though - every frame can be invincible, and that is a good thing, because you *have* to be invincible to go to level cap. Some use shield gating, some might require Protective Sling, but they all are invincible. And similarly all frames can oneshot level cap, using the right weapon. You don't even mention some of the most aggregious Warframes, Octavia for example can afk her way to level cap, her invisibility and damage far surpass anything Ash can do. Or Garuda, for all the issues she has she can easily oneshot everything in a huge AoE, scaling into infinity - all while being pretty much invincible.

So I have an Ash Bladestorm build, complete with the Innodem and Trickery and all. And I don't use it, like ever. Yes it can probably kill level cap enemies (I *really* don't want to even try). But it's super inconvenient, and not any better than just using a weapon, frankly. Because yes, any weapon you'd bring to level cap will also oneshot those enemies. Ash's passive has already been nerfed by the way (it was a shadow nerf, so I wouldn't blame you for not knowing). Realistically, his passive and his invisiblity are everything the poor guy has. Shuriken does literally nothing unless you use an augment (and even then it's a single target armor strip that can't even reliably hit what you aim it at), and his teleport is pathetic.

Ivara doesn't drain extra energy on melee projectiles (only direct hits). So gunblades, the Quassus, or glaives work quite well on her. Bus yes, Prowl needs a rework. It also deletes your energy when there's a shield/health drain aura, like in Disruption. The speed penalty and no bullet jumping are outdated as well.

That actually does return the glaive, just not instantly. It still has to observe its travel time. While this topic is ancient, I think it is worth stating the current state of glaive "throw-builds", in other words builds that do *not* simply explode the glaive and that's it. For these builds specifically, a mod has been introduced to the game with the most recent melee update: First of all, glaives aren't really worth using, despite their power, without the innate bonus of their forced status procs - for example a slash proc on the Glaive Prime, famously. Unfortunately the explosion caused by this mod does *not* activate the weapons innate proc on heavy attack explosions. This alone is already enough reason to never use throw-builds on most glaives, there are however some exceptions: The Pathocyst would in theory be better with a build that forgoes the heavy attack explosion, as it only gets a single Viral proc anyway, and the Volatile Rebound explosions do cause Viral damage, meaning with Weeping Wounds and a Heat mod, this weapon could do some work. However, most regrettably any and all of these builds are nonfunctional in practice. And the reason for this is a bug that I've reported years ago, and that will never be fixed (like so many others!). Glaives will frequently reset to consider their entire accumulated combo equal to zero. But even worse, the combo itself does not reset, so you are actually blocked from "rebuilding your combo" until you heavy attack and expend the remaining "phantom combo points". Basically, throwing glaives without using the explosion is not a viable strategy, and likely will never be. Here, have one of the videos I based my bug report on, years back, you can see that the combo counter and the Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds/Gladiator stack do not align most of the time (I am using heavy attack efficiency by the way, which slightly alleviates this bug): If you just look at the thumbnail you can already see 0 stacks from Blood Rush etc. at 12x combo.