Elite Onslaught is Pointless Boredom Because of Saryn

[-Temp0-]

10 часов назад, Zilchy сказал:

Some people don't seem to understand the concept of having a tool for each job.

Or fun.

Цитата

You can clearly see there is a problem with saryn, when lots of people who just want to play the game and have fun hack n slashing some dumb AI hordes find themselves annoingly standing still

Maybe those people should just play with friends or solo.

For that matter, I don't understand why the heck Saryns play public as well especially since lots of people bring dps to ESO and they just literally get in your way of fun AND you can easily solo it. You don't even need increased spawns because it's eso, there's shtton of enemies. And 90% of people stay 8 zones at most. You can do it alone. As well as those who cry they have "nothin' to kill" but instead they moan "but muh coop" and do nothing. Public isn't a way to go. It's not a defaul or mandatory mode. Take responsibility if you paly it. And yes that means you and not only that Saryn. She has all the rights to have fun as you are. But your'e both are are stubborn as *** to invite friends or play alone so you will always clash and it will result in nerfing a percetly good frames over a petty **** that can't agree with one another.

Edited August 19, 2018 by -Temp0-

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, -Temp0- said:

Or fun.

I can have fun, with any frame. But if I take a support frame or anything that isn't a DPS frame to ESO and do very little damage as a DPS focused frame kills everything, I won't complain about it because I've got myself to blame. That's the consequence of choosing not to use a DPS frame in a DPS based mission and I'm ok with that.

[Sesaline]

When people say that they can't even reach the enemies all I can do is shake my head. Seriously. Unless you choose not to equip them, you have a primary and secondary that are used to shoot things. Tigris Prime even hits enemies across the map accurately enough. What do these people mean by not being able to reach enemies? There is no chance at all that these players are referring to end game content (level 60+ enemies). There's no way. I do Kuva Survival all the time and enemies run around taking spore ticks for a while. When I use Miasma, some die instantly due to previous damage taken but not all. There's plenty of time to left click in the enemies' general direction to get kills.

----------------------

Miasma is Saryn's ult. If it kills a bunch of enemies, I would say that it is a good ult. It feels like an ult.Though it will kill enemies eventually, It still deals damage over time. I'm trying to understand what kind of crazily modded Saryns these people are running into that have max power strength and max range at the same time while instantly killing everything the moment it spawns.

 

You would have to fit all of these mods for max Range:

Cunning Drift,

Stretch,

Overextended (-60% str),

Augur Reach

That's 4 mod slots for 280% range and you lose 60% str.

 

Then for absurd Power you would want: 

Growing Power,

Intensify or Umbral Intensify (16 drain, no polarity for it, +44% str maxed without the other two umbral mods),

Blind Rage (maxed, -55% efficiency),

Energy Conversion,

Transient Fortitude (maxed, -27.5% duration),

Augur Secrets,

Power Drift.

 

And Saryn still caps out on spore damage regardless.

Equinox does not cap out on damage easily (talking billions of stored damage here that isn't divided among enemies evenly when unleashed) and can AoE nuke massive amounts. (Multiple Equinox can pass the maim damage between one another like a hot potato as well.) Saryn's can't do that. Do I want Equinox nerfed or think she is unfair? No.

Volt can stun nearly an entire room while shooting them for 200% extra multiplicative critical damage through shields or using a massive mobility/atk spd buff to kill the enemies that are rendered harmless. Saryn's CC is laughable. Her Molt gives a brief movement speed buff which is effected by modded duration and power strength. Do I think Volt's kit is OP and should be nerfed? Nope.

Mesa 90% DR while the game autoaims for you, dealing massive damage to anything in LoS very, very quickly. Saryn cannot simply hold down left click to literally clear everything in sight like that. She has to stay mobile and keep her spore count up to perform optimally. Is Mesa broken? Should she be axed? Nope aaaand nope.

So after looking at what it takes to make a Max/High Range/Power build and the other options in this category for AoE Nukelords... where do you fit in QoL mods to give Saryn some form of survivability or energy pool? Why is Saryn so unfathomable for some people given the other frames that can stop enemies in their tracks for over a minute (Limbo). Of course a full range high power build is strong... but it's a glass cannon if there ever was one and/or your energy management is going to be a nightmare. Better hope an enemy doesn't get LoS on your Saryn with a build like that after a certain point. No room for augments, no room for efficiency mods, no room for survivability. Just Damage and Range. It's to be expected. It irks me that people think this exclusively applies to just Saryn. As if the mods are a problem with Saryn when in reality it's the mods that are the true problem at the root of nearly all frame imbalances. They don't work the same with every ability on every frame.

Saryn also needs to snowball first in order to reach her maximum potential, similar to Equinox or Nidus.

Some frames could really use love and it's unfortunate how long they have collected dust for many, but Saryn is a good frame because she isn't imbalanced. She does help the team but people see a high kill count at the end of the mission and suddenly everything isn't fair. Her damage over time will eventually kill enemies so if the team isn't actually being mobile and hunting down enemies then they aren't going to score those kills. A lot of this has to do with frame synergy expectations when entering public matchmaking... which is just a big lol for obvious reasons. Other frames could desperately use this attention right now instead of Saryn simply because she is able to wipe out trash mobs on random mid-level alerts somewhat quickly.

I see this debate a lot in games with character variety. People love a character and want to feel powerful but then someone else comes along who is max level/rank with awesome gears or enhancements and it kills the other person's sense of being powerful. It's part of the game with looter shooters. Players need to adapt to different situations or accept that they are not as prepared as the other heavily invested individual and move on. Either you are a good teammate and you work with them or you don't and you leave or do the worst thing which is rag on the other player and then afk.

 

With that, I'm going to leave this thread as it really doesn't say anything but nerf nerf nerf with a bunch of fairytales attached. I don't support that mentality at all. I also don't support taking a big, steamy dump on your teammates if they enjoy playing something you personally don't agree with. Soooo yeah.

[Lenyatta]

31 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Or fun.

Maybe those people should just play with friends or solo.

For that matter, I don't understand why the heck Saryns play public as well especially since lots of people bring dps to ESO and they just literally get in your way of fun AND you can easily solo it. You don't even need increased spawns because it's eso, there's shtton of enemies. And 90% of people stay 8 zones at most. You can do it alone. As well as those who cry they have "nothin' to kill" but instead they moan "but muh coop" and do nothing. Public isn't a way to go. It's not a defaul or mandatory mode. Take responsibility if you paly it. And yes that means you and not only that Saryn. She has all the rights to have fun as you are. But your'e both are are stubborn as *** to invite friends or play alone so you will always clash and it will result in nerfing a percetly good frames over a petty **** that can't agree with one another.

That's what I don't understand either, if you cheese the content by blasting 9/10 of the mobs then logically you should go it solo, as I think many do with spy missions to not get people in the way, and judging by this

38 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

But if I take a support frame or anything that isn't a DPS frame to ESO and do very little damage as a DPS focused frame kills everything, I won't complain about it because I've got myself to blame. That's the consequence of choosing not to use a DPS frame in a DPS based mission and I'm ok with that.

and this, looks like the kind of players who advocate nuke frames are indeed the ones with the best dps player obsession

as much as DE is trying to address the "press a button-no challenge" frames, they should give a more insight to the AoE mechanics rather than just nerf this frame when then another would take place in its stead, the same way they did with high range melees chopping everything through walls

[-CdG-Zilchy]

20 minutes ago, Lenyatta said:

That's what I don't understand either, if you cheese the content by blasting 9/10 of the mobs then logically you should go it solo, as I think many do with spy missions to not get people in the way, and judging by this

and this, looks like the kind of players who advocate nuke frames are indeed the ones with the best dps player obsession

as much as DE is trying to address the "press a button-no challenge" frames, they should give a more insight to the AoE mechanics rather than just nerf this frame when then another would take place in its stead, the same way they did with high range melees chopping everything through walls

It just doesn't bother me. If I want to do spy I'll take a loki or an ivara or an ash etc. If I want to do ESO I'll take a dps frame like saryn, equinox, volt etc. As I said previously, in most public alerts (which I usually just solo) they can bring a saryn and I'll bring nova and I'll be waiting at extraction for them after either killing the majority or completing the objective before they even get to it.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Zilchy

[Caliboom]

She takes away the fun of her teammates and doesn't have any abilities that support them. She's a pure damage frame capable of nuking the entire map without any effort. So yes, she does need a nerf.

Also, Chroma got nerfed even though he wasn't a nuking frame. He really was only good against Eidolons. So why not nerf Saryn as well?

And, oh man, the Saryn players' responses are annoying. "GIT GUD", "PLAY SOLO MAN", "YOU'RE INSECURE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE MOST KILLS" are not good arguments against the fact that she's overpowered and needs to be changed. There's a reason why so many people play Saryn, it's because she's just better than all other damage frames.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Caliboom

[aligatorno]

9 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

She takes away the fun of her teammates and doesn't have any abilities that support them. She's a pure damage frame capable of nuking the entire map without any effort. So yes, she does need a nerf.

Also, Chroma got nerfed even though he wasn't a nuking frame. He really was only good against Eidolons. So why not nerf Saryn as well?

Of course she does. She's debuffing the enemies wither her Spores, ergo increasing the damage that her team mates do. 

A lot of frames can wipe out low level maps, this is nowhere near only her thing. On High level maps she can't wipe out without effort, she will need to actively spread her one in order for Miasma to be able to kill the enemies. The more and the faster she kills, the more she loses, so she's build to maintain rather than rush. ESO is not exactly something representative of the rest of the game in terms of enemy spawn or enemy numbers.

As for Chroma, they fixed him, they knew for a long time that his math was double dipping and resulted in absurd numbers, they just waited to do that, which is on them. 

[rune_me]

14 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

And, oh man, the Saryn players' responses are annoying. "GIT GUD", "PLAY SOLO MAN", "YOU'RE INSECURE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE MOST KILLS" are not good arguments against the fact that she's overpowered and needs to be changed. There's a reason why so many people play Saryn, it's because she's just better than all other damage frames.

What do you mean "Saryn players responses"? I'm not a Saryn player. And my response is still "Play solo man" and "You're insecure because you're not getting the most kills". That's everyone's response, the former because it's good advice, the later because it's obvious.

[Caliboom]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

What do you mean "Saryn players responses"? I'm not a Saryn player. And my response is still "Play solo man" and "You're insecure because you're not getting the most kills". That's everyone's response, the former because it's good advice, the later because it's obvious.

If a Warframe forces you to play solo, then there's obviously something wrong with it.

[failedtodiet]

2 minutes ago, Caliboom said:

She takes away the fun of her teammates and doesn't have any abilities that support them. She's a pure damage frame capable of nuking the entire map without any effort. So yes, she does need a nerf.

What are you talking about ? Which low level missions that enemies die instantly when a spore hit them give you FUN? And a defense mission where Miasma can kill whole map is as fun as an affinity farming spot where people just want to get over it quick. Saryn strips armor so you can deal more damage use whatever elemental or aura you want. Is that not supportive enough ? If you play Saryn without effort, i bet your Saryn only know to spam Miasma.

At this point i think DE just need remove the mission summary screen and these nerf criers will go away.

And the most hilarious thing in this topic is OP said Saryn before rework was WEAK.

[rune_me]

Just now, Caliboom said:

If a Warframe forces you to play solo, then there's obviously something wrong with it.

No one is forcing you to play solo. If I hate exaliburs, the only way to be sure I don't end up with an excal on my team, is to avoid public games. That's not me being forced to play solo, that's me deciding to play solo because I don't want an excal on my team. It also doesn't mean there's something wrong with excalibur. It just means I don't want one on my team, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[(PSN)GrottanGo]

oh, I see. someone to bring out the warframe lottery, presto!

[-Temp0-]

1 час назад, Caliboom сказал:

She takes away the fun of her teammates and doesn't have any abilities that support them. She's a pure damage frame capable of nuking the entire map without any effort. So yes, she does need a nerf.

Also, Chroma got nerfed even though he wasn't a nuking frame.

Chroma is basically the way he was before. For general public nothing has changed. Not like they fough lv 500+ enemies or anything. And under lv 200 he still mops the floor with everything he encounters.

Also being a dps - you migh want to take a deep breath here - is perfectly fine. As well as having 0 powers that "support teamamtes" even tho that yeaah stripping armor off everything for the general public that is both allergic to cp and brings crp weapons even to eso is actually quite a good support. Who the f cares about teammates anyway. Let them support themselves.

Speaking of which I would actually love to have a warframe that can strip armor - and not in a ***ty way that Mag or Oberon does and not even in a way that Saryn does but simply strip it by using it's power once (not twice, not 10 times) regardless of enemies level if you for example have a certain % of power strenght and with another power reduce their hp. Without direclty damaging them. Now that's a freaking support I would play.

Цитата

If a Warframe forces you to play solo, then there's obviously something wrong with it.

Absolutely nothing is wrong with it. No one in this game - or any other for that matter - cares about teammates. You might replace them with ai and no one will notice because they're just as useful and you interact with them just as much. People hit public for 2 reasons alone - 1 to get carried because they're simply too bad to complete the missions otherwise 2 to get increased spawns. Is all.

Edited August 19, 2018 by -Temp0-

[KIREEK]

1. You a re free to add quits to your profile, just don't complain if someone finds you unreliable when it comes to staying in a missing and wanting it done
2. it's not often that i see someone asking for onslaught matches (aka the only gamemode so far with an established time where more effort doesn't get you more content) to be more difficult, because in the end that won't matter, onslaught is designed so super efficient players get kills and that's about it, you cannot gain more for working harder, so your complain falls flat
3. the ability isn't all that efficient across many game modes
4. if it is, then i don't know why you're asking for less loot in a match, i know players that like slogs and more grind exist, but seeing one in the forums is rare, no one want's to shame themselves
5. If you are pratically a spectator when a saryn is inside, then it's better to stay away from any public matches, you are still new to the concept of helping and shared tasks, like giving energy, healing, killing what wasn't killed or even buffing, you can even open up lockers if you know how, the 1st step to an underwelming player, prone to no gameplay is the fact that if he can't kill he finds himself to be worthless. Good players will always find something to do, it's not like the outcome in onslaught will change much (game won't end sooner and you won't get more oxium for example) but everywhere else it will make a difference.

 

Rememeber that while saryn may make certain things easier, if you are paired with a good player, any warframe they use and you won't get many kills, you cannot ask a nerf on all warframes when that player makes the effort to get things done and you don't.

You need to accept the consequences or the results of not trying, of not making an effort in games and stop complaining about the players that do, warframe has been for a long time an effort based game, it's what you do in the missions that will have an impact, me and you are opposite examples of that

Edited August 19, 2018 by KIREEK

[RetroNomad]

12 hours ago, MidoriFuse said:

....
It is because she can clean whole map with one button
....
 

 

You literally do not know how to play Saryn do you.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I’m a Saryn main since her 1.0 days, and yes I do know her kit and have built her to the point of possibly griefing other players in my PuG. I’m well aware that she is “op.”

However, I have out-dps’d many Saryns in both damage and kills with a Wukong or a Valkyr. It’s just a matter of knowing your Frame’s strengths and their weaknesses, and the knowledge and tenacity in playing PuGs well.

I’m also primarily a melee only player. And no I don’t use Maiming Strike builds.

Figure out how to outperform other players and the limits of the game, and *eureka!* you’ve got a handle on Warframe.

[SilverRook]

Ok...... so to all those calling for a nerf.

 

HOW? 

 

how would you do it ? 

 

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

Just another nerf sniveler who doesn’t know how to get better 

[SneakyErvin]

Imagine that, frames being good at different mission types. Oh the horror!

[DatDarkOne]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

It’s just a matter of knowing your Frame’s strengths and their weaknesses, and the knowledge and tenacity in playing PuGs well.

^^^This! Great advice, and it applies to all frames.  Most who main frames learn this.  Once you learn to cater to your chosen frames strengths while avoiding their weaknesses, you can beast with that frame regardless.  

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

Threads like this appear because the vision of WF people have in their heads doesn't match reality. Saryn, Ember, Equinox, Banshee, Limbo, etc. are reality. Making the grind less onerous by doing as little as possible is reality. People will always defend the current broken things because there have always been broken things, the rest will be less unhappy if they accept WF for what it is and make their own fun if they can.

I'll admit, I bring Saryn if I play ESO because ESO is awful and I just want to sleepwalk through 8 waves and get out. She's an indestructible ESO hoard killing machine. I personally think her rework is questionable, but whatever. 

[-Temp0-]

8 минут назад, (PS4)Elvenbane сказал:

Threads like this appear because the vision of WF people have in their heads doesn't match reality. Saryn, Ember, Equinox, Banshee, Limbo, etc. are reality. Making the grind less onerous by doing as little as possible is reality. People will always defend the current broken things because there have always been broken things, the rest will be less unhappy if they accept WF for what it is and make their own fun if they can.

I'll admit, I bring Saryn if I play ESO because ESO is awful and I just want to sleepwalk through 8 waves and get out. She's an indestructible ESO hoard killing machine. I personally think her rework is questionable, but whatever. 

Nothing is broken about them

If you would have bothered to watch prime warframe trailers or trailers in general or read any Codex entry about them you'd actually notice that warframes are powerhouses as they should be and as they are. Now rewatch them all and tell me what you see.

You see warframes ***t on everyone and everything they encounter. And their main damage comes from their powers not weapons. Even in her prime trailer Saryn is doing what she was always doing and what she does now. To say they should be weaker is telling yourself a lie and your opponent a lie. This isn't call of duty. It's warframe.  

And that is from someone who almost never played Saryn, not during 1.0 not during 2.0 not in her current form.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Imagine that, frames being good at different mission types. Oh the horror!

Next these people are probably going to call fo a frost nerf cause he's too good at defending. Or operators cause there too good at being a small child or just all guns cause another players got more kills than him. These people just understand how some things are more suited for some mission types over others so they whine and *@##$ about it being over powered.

[rune_me]

2 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Nothing is broken about them

If you would have bothered to watch prime warframe trailers or trailers in general or read any Codex entry about them you'd actually notice that warframes are powerhouses as they should be and as they are. Now rewatch them all and tell me what you see.

You see warframes ***t on everyone and everything they encounter. And their main damage comes from their powers not weapons. Even in her prime trailer Saryn is doing what she was always doing and what she does now. To say they should be weaker is telling yourself a lie and your opponent a lie. This isn't call of duty. It's warframe.  

And that is from someone who almost never played Saryn, not during 1.0 not during 2.0 not in her current form.

Honestly, only DE decides what is and isn't broken. Not the lore, not the community. And DE has made it very clear, that they really do not like excessive efficient-without-trying meta builds. They absolutely will consider those broken and nerf them, whether we as players like that or not.

I don't think Saryn fits into that category anymore, though. I mean that was exactly why they reworked her, to get her away from that.

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

15 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Honestly, only DE decides what is and isn't broken. Not the lore, not the community. And DE has made it very clear, that they really do not like excessive efficient-without-trying meta builds. They absolutely will consider those broken and nerf them, whether we as players like that or not.

 

I think the problem is that DE likes to nerf the few strong things rather than buff the many many weaker things. It takes less time/work so it makes sense but it is also what makes players cry out for nerfs.