Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

[LABAL]

9 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

DE feels that it is.  We spill a lot of virtual ink obsessing over the people who get removed from chat, but we rarely ever talk about the people who don't feel comfortable in a chat that has slurs, lewdness, rudeness, and boorish behavior.  In effect, DE would be excluding those people by not removing people that use slurs or adhere to boorish behavior.

You seem to dance around the point I'm trying to make, so let me be completely clear: I don't care what feels right. I only care what is right. And deciding for everyone what they should or should not be offended with is absolutely not right. People may not even think twice about a certain phrase, but you've decided it's BAD and set the rules, so now it should be bad for everyone. Do you see the problem? The dangerous part of that practice is that it meets resistance that organically emerges from the whole structure. People start making up new words, the banned words are deemed even more offensive, the frustration grows, people lash out more, try to bait each other into saying something that was RULED BAD.
The "comfort" in the community as a whole diminishes as a result.

Analogy time: The wildfires are a natural phenomenon that occurred even before humanity has set its foot on... anything. But have you heard of the "Smokey Bear effect"? I could probably cross-reference some exact dates if I did some digging, but essentially this is what took place: There was a large campaign in the United States that started around 40's or 50's dedicated to prevention of forest fires. It worked really well for a rather long time. Enough time, in fact, for the forest to grow extra dense and for the undergrowth to get extra flammable (see where my analogy comes in, eh? eh?), so the very next major fire that happened caused many times the damage that a series of normal forest fires would.

Sigh... Can't you just let thinking people solve minor disputes on their own instead of highly regulating and limiting the ways they can communicate? Or is it just too late and there's too few thinking people left in your opinion? Yes, people do tend to overreact momentarily, especially nowadays, now that they've been sheltered for so long, but how are you supposed to make real friends when you're not even allowed to make a crude joke that they might have laughed at?
Besides, I've always been taught that rudeness is disrespect towards oneself and not the opponent. I'd only make myself look bad. And I do, occasionally, make myself look bad. This is, after all, a part of the learning experience.

Is this really hopeless? Am I alone?

[Zanchak]

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

And those examples are perfectly valid. However the people complaining aren't the people going 'I was talking about child porn and how femanists need to die.' IT's people talking about hwo they're being accused of being in that grou pbecause chatbot kicked them for asking about vauban's ability, or go look on reddit and you'll see a post froma guy who somehow got banned for asking about equinox's abilities, and other instances of 'ok looking at the screengrab i see nothing here that is banworthy. Maybe boot, and a message explaining.'

What would help is kickbot having more descriptive reasons FOR the kick beyond 'that is inappropriate'

The counter argument is 'lul people who know the badword filter can get around it.'

Look when I can name a pet 'hitler did nothing wrong' but cant' name said pet 'stardust' because apparently that word contains 'Tard' 

There is a problem. That problem is not being addressed. We're jsut seeing 'look at how well kickbot is working keeping these horrible S#&$ty people out of our game.'

Oh of course there are always going to be questionable bans, and outright stupid ones that get caught by a system that isn't human, of that I have no arguement.

I just see a lot of the really stupid side of region chats (I flick between two, some are worse than others) Some people deserve very... very long bans for the things they say, all in an effort to be the centre of attention so, Im definitely not saying it can't be fixed further, Im just saying a lot of the people being banned, do actually deserve to be there.

As an aside, I had an issue with a zaw name once like that, can't even remember what I was trying to call it but it was nothing lewd lol.

[Zanchak]

3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

While I generally agree with the first three, I have to admit that the last one got a chuckle out of me as it's so hyperbolic that I understood it to be a joke (albeit one in poor taste).

Therein lies the problem... while I would probably let the last one slide as a chat moderator, I could completely understand how someone would get a tempban for that (as it is in poor taste).

Humor is a subjective thing, as it's dependent partially on culture among other things so what would be OK in your culture may not be in mine and vice versa.

Yeh I think I am more touchy with those types of things because I do play warframe with my mrs and she is often thankful that people don't realize she IS female because of the way so many of them speak, not to mention DE has so many wonderful female staff members and they are sifting through that type of crap all the time. Its offensive and childish and letting it slide kind of encourages the younger ones to keep going. Horrible circle really lol

[Almagnus1]

8 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

Yeh I think I am more touchy with those types of things because I do play warframe with my mrs and she is often thankful that people don't realize she IS female because of the way so many of them speak, not to mention DE has so many wonderful female staff members and they are sifting through that type of crap all the time. Its offensive and childish and letting it slide kind of encourages the younger ones to keep going. Horrible circle really lol

What most don't get is that the comment about the feminists is actually directed at fourth wave feminists, as many have completely lost the point of what the prior ones wanted... and (for some) feminism is another word for misandry.  So there's a completely different take on the line than what you're thinking, which is why it can be interpreted as a hyperbolic, shock humor joke.

You also need to check your bias, as you're implying most Warframe players are misogynists whether you intend to or not.

All this ties into how having mods with agenda will create a more toxic playerbase because they ban people for stuff that triggers the mod, but is otherwise harmless.  To be clear, none of the stuff Rebecca had linked is considered harmless, although I would consider the comment about feminist as a borderline ban-able offense.

[Zanchak]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

What most don't get is that the comment about the feminists is actually directed at fourth wave feminists, as many have completely lost the point of what the prior ones wanted... and (for some) feminism is another word for misandry.  So there's a completely different take on the line than what you're thinking, which is why it can be interpreted as a hyperbolic, shock humor joke.

You also need to check your bias, as you're implying most Warframe players are misogynists whether you intend to or not.

All this ties into how having mods with agenda will create a more toxic playerbase because they ban people for stuff that triggers the mod, but is otherwise harmless.  To be clear, none of the stuff Rebecca had linked is considered harmless, although I would consider the comment about feminist as a borderline ban-able offense.

I don't need check my bias at all, I haven't said anywhere that "most warframe players are misogynists", I have seen and continue to see plenty who are though and they are the ones who need check themselves. It is those types of behaviours in general that cause moderation to grow stricter over time because no one tells them to hush and it spirals outwards into anything and everything being free game for the stupids. The same can be said in games everywhere.

Region is an in-game chat, it's not there so people can spout off about "whatever", so regardless of what a comment like the feminist one is directed at, it doesnt really belong in there period. There are plenty of other places people can talk about those things.

[Almagnus1]

35 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

I don't need check my bias at all, I haven't said anywhere that "most warframe players are misogynists"

O RLY?

1 hour ago, Zanchak said:

I do play warframe with my mrs and she is often thankful that people don't realize she IS female because of the way so many of them speak

Those are the words of someone who thinks that they are surrounded by misogynists.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

7 hours ago, Zanchak said:

That people are actually in here saying they don't know why it is needed is astounding. Did you even read?

"I love little girls"
"No I beat my wife"
"There is only one gender, male, females are property."
"Feminists need capital punishment for living"

There is something wrong with you if you think any of these are acceptable as "humour". None of these comments damage "free speech" by being removed, if anything they help it by not leading the sheep out there down a path that thinks this type of thing is funny. Your mothers, auntys, wives, sisters, daughters certainly would not enjoy knowing you look upon them like this, even for "fun". Men don't think that type of crap is "fun", little boys do. Grow up.

Baiting other players to violate guidelines.

This is truely just childish on every level and could completely ruin new player experience if they say the wrong thing that catches them in one of those questionable context bans. Bans need to be longer for baiters.

Obviously those deserve bans, literally nobody is arguing against that. Nobody has an issue with banning people who actually break the rules. What we mostly have a problem with are the fact that people very often get banned without knowingly breaking any rules at all, and then having no way of founding out which rule they broke, or how long the suspension will even last.

I once said "If you say the n word, you'll get suspended from all chats for a week" just to let people know the consequences of their actions, and then a minute later I got suspended from chat for a week. Is talking about the rules against the rules? Apparently so. That's the kind of stuff that we want changed. Not what you're talking about. 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

15 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Citation needed on how many of those autokicks are from... dubiously crafted rules by chat mods...

That one is easy.  Zero.  Chat mods have no control over the bot.  DE handles the bot.

9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

While I generally agree with the first three, I have to admit that the last one got a chuckle out of me as it's so hyperbolic that I understood it to be a joke (albeit one in poor taste).

"It's just a joke" is not a valid excuse for violating the rules.

6 hours ago, LABAL said:

You seem to dance around the point I'm trying to make, so let me be completely clear: I don't care what feels right. I only care what is right.

And, you seem to not understand my point.  If you think it is right to allow people to act in boorish ways and effectively chase others out of chat by doing so, then your priorities don't align with DE's.

6 hours ago, LABAL said:

And deciding for everyone what they should or should not be offended with is absolutely not right. People may not even think twice about a certain phrase, but you've decided it's BAD and set the rules, so now it should be bad for everyone. Do you see the problem?

DE sets the rules.  Mods merely enforce the rules.  DE has made it a priority to be inclusive.  When people are acting in ways that are offensive and detrimental to DE's vision of how they want their chat to run, they are violating the rules.  That you don't find something offensive doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.

And, inb4 you claim that offense is never given, it's only taken.  I reject that line of thinking.  The statements posted by Rebecca are clearly offensive to most people (not all, as proven by this thread).

6 hours ago, LABAL said:

The "comfort" in the community as a whole diminishes as a result.

If the comfort is diminishing, it is due to the bad actors who see this as a war to be able to be as offensive as possible to others, because they think it's funny or cool or something.  When kickbot goes down, chat devolves into a disaster.  I've seen the vid.

 

[----Legacy----]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

That one is easy.  Zero.  Chat mods have no control over the bot.  DE handles the bot.

Iirc, mods have (had?) contact with the staff member at charge of the bot and can suggest words to be filtered. It's not "direct" control over the bot but it still wad open to manipulation. They are trusted by DE after all.

24 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

If you think it is right to allow people to act in boorish ways and effectively chase others out of chat by doing so, then your priorities don't align with DE's.

But i guess it is right for moderators to make use of their permissions to effectively chase others out of chat simply because they don't like the use of certain words to the point where even linking [kinetic syphon trap] and naming any warframe in the same sentence can get you a temporal ban. Your point goes both ways, and when people start deciding to disablw region chat to avoid dealing with an overzealous moderation you can tell there's something wrong.

47 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

DE sets the rules.  Mods merely enforce the rules. When people are acting in ways that are offensive and detrimental to DE's vision of how they want their chat to run, they are violating the rules.  That you don't find somethingoffensive doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.

There were nearly no rules back then, so there was no real "DE's vision of how they want their chat to run", and that's why some mods were doing whatever they wanted and DE didn't bat an eye until enough people started voicing our opinions about that situation. And even then DE keeps failing to actually address the real issue.

50 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

That you don't find something offensive doesn't mean that it isn't offensive

It also works both ways: that you find something offensive doesn't mean it's actually offensive. People can get offended by really small things nowadays, and as much as i agree with moderation being needed to prevent offensive topics/words/slurs/whatever in chat, the chat overseers (kockbot and moderators) should try to keep a neutral environment instead of relaxing too much with offensive people or being overprotective of those who get offended easily. Thing's aren't black and white, and that's where your whole argument falls apart.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

57 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Your point goes both ways, and when people start deciding to disablw region chat to avoid dealing with an overzealous moderation you can tell there's something wrong.

I'm sorry, but if someone decides to completely turn off region chat because of that then that just tells me they don't know how to follow the rules. If you stick to chatting about the game and stay away from subjects that shouldn't be talked about in a video game then you'll be fine and don't have to worry about being banned.

 

57 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Thing's aren't black and white, and that's where your whole argument falls apart.

Except it is DE's chat and they decide what is allowed on the chat and what is not. Now they are working on this but for right now we have to abide by what they set in place with the Kickbot.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

30 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Iirc, mods have (had?) contact with the staff member at charge of the bot and can suggest words to be filtered. It's not "direct" control over the bot but it still wad open to manipulation. They are trusted by DE after all.

In the end, it is DE's decision what goes into the bot and what doesn't.

31 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

But i guess it is right for moderators to make use of their permissions to effectively chase others out of chat simply because they don't like the use of certain words to the point where even linking [kinetic syphon trap] and naming any warframe in the same sentence can get you a temporal ban. Your point goes both ways, and when people start deciding to disablw region chat to avoid dealing with an overzealous moderation you can tell there's something wrong.

Moderators enforce the rules as given by DE.  They do not simply remove people from chat because they feel like it.  Additionally, removing problematic people from chat is their job, so, no, it doesn't cut both ways.

Also, see my point above about the bot.  Instead of blaming DE, why do you not blame the people who have tirelessly tried to bypass the bot and forced DE's hand to try and find ways to stop their bad behavior?

57 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

...the chat overseers (kockbot and moderators) should try to keep a neutral environment instead of relaxing too much with offensive people or being overprotective of those who get offended easily.

Define "neutral environment."

Regardless, it doesn't matter.  DE sets the rules.  Mods/Kickbot enforce the rules.

[DeadlyDog88]

Two comments:

The idea of having an audit log is a really good decision. It protects not only users from unfair moderation, but it also protects the moderator. When you are in need of exercising your power, things can quickly get heated, and the internet is known for working as an amplifier.

As for an automated moderation bot, you need to minimize two things:

• Type 1 error rate---in which the bot fails to ban someone who should obviously have been, and
• Type 2 error rate---in which the bot bans someone who shouldn't have been banned.

It is important that you don't seek to improve one error rate at the expense of the other. As an example, suppose I ban everyone. Now I have 0% type 1 error rate, a perfect score! But I also have a 100% type 2 error rate, an imperfect score! In practice, you want to work with the so called F1 score (the harmonic mean of the error rates) so you seek to improve both. Text is, as data concerned, sparse. So a bot using single words to meter out judgement is going to have a really bad type 2 error rate. This problem is really hard to solve in general and requires much dedication and training data to successfully pull off. You need to look at the context in which the word occurs as well. Also, even if I manage to train up the bot, people will seek to find other ways around it.

What is worse is that a type 2 error rate will be seen as unfair. This creates animosity, which severely can hamper communication.

As a loose suggestion, have you considered having multiple global chat channels such as Path of Exile, for each area (LFG, Trade, Banter, ...)? You could focus on moderation of some of them, while still giving people some leverage to freely moderate other channels? People parse text wildly differently. What is a fun in-joke to some will be the most offensive thing to another human being. The traditional solution has been to have convene in different groups, as to not anger each other. But this would allow different mind sets to chat in-game, and also give DE a certain amount of plausible deniability (I know there are obvious limits here).

[tarfeef101]

It's funny that a lot of the people who are complaining that saying that women are property or other disgusting crap like shown is all "just a joke" and "not serious" are also the same people who get mad and block people for:
- negotiating a trade deal
- asking them to actually play the mission you're in
- asking them to change gear in a recruited squad
- literally just helping them out

Also seriously though, S#&$ like that isn't okay, and is never a joke. It's not f***ing funny. If someone says something like women are property or some crap like that, and you laugh, you should really think about why you did. And address that, because damn, wtf dude... 

[tarfeef101]

12 hours ago, Zanchak said:

I don't need check my bias at all, I haven't said anywhere that "most warframe players are misogynists", I have seen and continue to see plenty who are though and they are the ones who need check themselves. It is those types of behaviours in general that cause moderation to grow stricter over time because no one tells them to hush and it spirals outwards into anything and everything being free game for the stupids. The same can be said in games everywhere.

Region is an in-game chat, it's not there so people can spout off about "whatever", so regardless of what a comment like the feminist one is directed at, it doesnt really belong in there period. There are plenty of other places people can talk about those things.

This. So much of this. Some (most) of my female friends who play refuse to even talk in chat at all, let alone region chat because the second people know they're female, it's weird sexual advances, some utter bile like the original post showcased, or something else unpleasant. What this shows us is that there IS a problem. Warframe shouldn't be a place where 50% of the population doesn't even want to talk to anyone because they don't want to deal with the S#&$ that comes back as a result. Idk what's going on with people who think all that stuff from the original post is funny (or if they actually believe in it), but it needs to stop. They have 4chan for that.

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

This. So much of this. Some (most) of my female friends who play refuse to even talk in chat at all, let alone region chat because the second people know they're female, it's weird sexual advances, some utter bile like the original post showcased, or something else unpleasant. What this shows us is that there IS a problem. Warframe shouldn't be a place where 50% of the population doesn't even want to talk to anyone because they don't want to deal with the S#&$ that comes back as a result. Idk what's going on with people who think all that stuff from the original post is funny (or if they actually believe in it), but it needs to stop. They have 4chan for that.

Let me ask you this, why should I care what the gender is of any tenno?

Touching back to the post, part of the issues from chat moderation comes from understanding that Warframe is a global F2P game, and certain cultures simply do not mix well.  What may be acceptable in one culture can be extremely offensive in another culture.  That means us tenno need to be a bit thicker skinned when it comes to comments as we don't know what the cultural background of any given player is.

Another issue in play is that there's maturity level of people.  While time may help with this one, I suspect a lot of the awkward male/female interactions come from lack of maturity and/or lack of experience interacting with the particular gender (perhaps mutually in some scenarios).  There's also cultural side to the interaction between genders, as some cultures are notoriously misogynistic in their view of women.

Also, why do you assume 50% female population?  Do you have access to the Warframe demographic data?  If so, can you give me a link?

[Almagnus1]

20 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I really am sorry that even now the instnat people either outright state or even imply that they are female and then all the weirdos come out to play. Back in 'my day' I could somewhat forgive it since we were still new to the whole 'online' thing, but now? No. People should understand by this point 'don't be a skeevy perv' should go without needing to be said. 

I completely agree with you on the skeevy perv point.  That said, I do wonder if some of what's going on isn't actually awkward social interactions being badly misinterpreted.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

I completely agree with you on the skeevy perv point.  That said, I do wonder if some of what's going on isn't actually awkward social interactions being badly misinterpreted.

Is Warframe Region a dating service/pick up site?

[Almagnus1]

7 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Given many folk are either in middle school or thereabouts so don't have the sort of life experiance in the first place, are socially inept (like myself,) or are shutins due to disability or other reasons (also myself,) causing a lack of social graces? That is entirely possible.

Ideas would be welcome on how to address this within the community so folk can learn rather than it feel worse... without enabling the more skeevy sketchy behavior out there.

I don't know if there's a way DE can do that without either coming across as condescending or authoritarian.  Without getting too much into the specifics, some of that needs counseling to work through, and that's DEFINITELY not something DE should touch with a ten foot pole.

That also highlights one of the challenges with chat moderation, and why having certain... elements... don't help things.

[SilentMobius]

Thanks for the information Rebecca, and thanks for this thread, it's been a good touchstone for further padding of my forum ignore list.

[Letter13]

3 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

This archaic 'we won't let you know the actual rules because then you could abuse them' comes likely from one of the problem mods who is now an ex mod who blew up on twitter and made a tumblr post with tags that read to the effect 'I am going to bait people into breaking the rules without getting into trouble because I know how it all works and I can get away with it there is nothing you can do to stop me.' I'd forwarded the appropriate links to {DE}Bear because that presumably is part of his job as oversight to the mods.

The rules had been (and still are) an extension of the Forum's code of conduct, along with portions of the Terms of Use Agreement and EULA (they were however more recently posted in a manner that clarifies them for people who seemed unable to be bothered with reading the forum guidelines, Terms of Use and EULA). The thing we won't post is a blacklist of the words that will trigger kickbot--this is because giving users a template of all the things that trigger kickbot will also give them the template of how to write derogatory slurs, vulgarities and rule-violating comments while evading kickbot.

 

But yes, if you ever see a moderator acting in a way which violates the Chat Moderation Code of Conduct please record the incident and contact [DE]Bear immediately to report the issue. 

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, Letter13 said:

The rules had been (and still are) an extension of the Forum's code of conduct, along with portions of the Terms of Use Agreement and EULA (they were however more recently posted in a manner that clarifies them for people who seemed unable to be bothered with reading the forum guidelines, Terms of Use and EULA). The thing we won't post is a blacklist of the words that will trigger kickbot--this is because giving users a template of all the things that trigger kickbot will also give them the template of how to write derogatory slurs, vulgarities and rule-violating comments while evading kickbot.

 

But yes, if you ever see a moderator acting in a way which violates the Chat Moderation Code of Conduct please record the incident and contact [DE]Bear immediately to report the issue. 

I don't think that's entirely true. One of the biggest issues which you all have not tried to address at all is how people can unintentionally trigger the bot through normal conversation. You have been told many times that your rules are too vague. They are.

People can get banned even when following your Forum code of conduct, and you all have been notified of this repeatedly. To rectify this issue, you could provide specific words/phrases that are otherwise common words/phrases or proper nouns that will trigger the bot, without providing a template of how to write derogatory slurs. Such words include the word trap (which is not widely known as also being used in a derogatory manner) or the name of the country Niger (where Nigeriens live). That does not provide a blueprint or template for breaking the rules. It just provides an example of otherwise common words or phrases that, due to being used in derogatory contexts, will trigger the bot.

You don't have to include any of the various alphanumeric combinations that people have used to try to get around the kickbot; doing that would be giving players a blueprint. But you should make your community aware of the otherwise normal words that will get them banned, specifically because it can get them banned when they're trying to stay within the rules. There are actually people in this community who want to do the right thing, but because of cases where normal communication has resulted in bans (discussion that is oddly not allowed on the forums), people are afraid to use your chat system at all.

[epilef1993]

13 hours ago, Letter13 said:

The rules had been (and still are) an extension of the Forum's code of conduct, along with portions of the Terms of Use Agreement and EULA (they were however more recently posted in a manner that clarifies them for people who seemed unable to be bothered with reading the forum guidelines, Terms of Use and EULA). The thing we won't post is a blacklist of the words that will trigger kickbot--this is because giving users a template of all the things that trigger kickbot will also give them the template of how to write derogatory slurs, vulgarities and rule-violating comments while evading kickbot.

 

But yes, if you ever see a moderator acting in a way which violates the Chat Moderation Code of Conduct please record the incident and contact [DE]Bear immediately to report the issue. 

Can we have a decent discussion about the handling of kickbot with the word "Trap" ? I joined Warframe in 2013 and i have over 1k hours invested on the game, so i like to think i care about it and the community even if this is my first post. Until i got banned from regional chat for implying that Nezha was a trap, let me be honest i never thought or even knew that trap was a derogatory slang, i always had it as neutral or actually referred in a positive way. I had to do research to actually find that "trap" is also used in a bad way. After the ban i looked for most definitions and mostly none had it as "derogatory" not even Wikipedia. If you want it to push it another level i even asked a homosexual friend that is more feminine, and he told me that he takes it as a compliment.

My stand is not to remove kickbot or to remove the word "trap" from the list, but to tone down the punishment, the code of conduct doesn't cover this, not even kickbot warning for chat rules. In my point of view not only i got banned for something i felt it was a positive stance, apparently the bot removes whatever you typed so in the end even if mistaken i didn't hurt anybody but in return i get branded as trans-phobic, not only i cant use regional chat, i cant even communicate with my teammates in missions or even trade. I'm used to communicate with people during missions, thanking revives and saying GG after a good run. I don't want to join Teralyst hunts because i feel like a hindrance without the chat.

Playing warframe a co-op game, without the means to communicate its hell, every post i see over this its always end in users laughing at op and bashing him even more for a mistake, you shouldn't get traumatized by mistakes you should learn from them.

I will apologize to everyone that thinks that "Trap" is a derogatory slang i always looked at it in a good way. But i feel that having a 7 day of banishment into the shadow realm is also a very negative experience, and saying "disable regional chat" feel like saying that the community is not worth the pain.

Edit: I think others should know that my ban was lifted, 24h ban not 7 days, i thought that bans for this kind of accidents where 1 week since most of that post about this where answered with that info, and none of the user banned came back with feedback since they where widely mocked. I still stand that the usage of the word "trap" shouldn't be a bannable but a warning massage saying "that it is also used as a "derogative slang" and you should refrain of using it". The same way people that get offended by it, other that thinks its a compliment getting told that its a slur its also degrading in some manner. Thanks and sorry for the long reply, i'm open to disagreements.
 

[Zanchak]

On 2019-02-01 at 5:33 PM, Almagnus1 said:

O RLY?

Those are the words of someone who thinks that they are surrounded by misogynists.

It says, "because of the way so many of them speak". It doesn't say, "most warframe players are misogynists. Read.

[Sean]

19 hours ago, epilef1993 said:

Edit: I think others should know that my ban was lifted, 24h ban not 7 days, i thought that bans for this kind of accidents where 1 week since most of that post about this where answered with that info, and none of the user banned came back with feedback since they where widely mocked. I still stand that the usage of the word "trap" shouldn't be a bannable but a warning massage saying "that it is also used as a "derogative slang" and you should refrain of using it". The same way people that get offended by it, other that thinks its a compliment getting told that its a slur its also degrading in some manner. Thanks and sorry for the long reply, i'm open to disagreements.
 

 

If you happened to say it again in any way that the triggers the bot, then it would be longer than 24h, but that also touches on another major issue: The lack of information on the duration of each ban.

As for the rest of your post, I agree on the majority of what you said, but I honestly don't think "trap" should be ban-worthy. It being a "derogatory" term is the minority of even that community. Any word can be considered derogatory with the right context behind it.

We really should just have a system in place that allows players to create their own blacklists that would swap out any word within each blacklist with something like [*] (regardless of length), and by default, the blacklist would contain various words that would be considered "bad" and be on (with a password lock for parents to enable). This way, people who consider words that most of the world finds mundane can get by fine without fear that the kickbot will just ban them and then those that do take issue with whatever word, can then have it not display at all throughout ANY chat (and not just ones where the kickbot is present). Could even have options of how things should be removed, either as a replacement or a full deletion of the line of text that included, and with a custom system, slang and non-English insults can then be removed if the person chooses.

 

 

The kickbot needs improvements, and DE needs to begin being open to discussion on it.

The moderators that caused issues and broke numerous common-sense practices should be removed, at the very least to get DE on the path to restoring trust.

Keeping both the two the same is only going to cause more of the same issues.

 

[Sean]

15 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

At least one has stepped down (Voluntary or otherwise i will leave that for private speculation as the point is they are gone.) Two others are supposedly gone but that may be speculation or misreading information.

Going to just quote the above, but I agree with the rest of your post.

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, they have just been forced to change their name to something actually appropriate (despite even the act of having to change their username a second time to fully remove a negative term would be bannable for anyone else).

If you google their old name combined with the term "Warframe Forums", you'll find their new username and they are still an in-game moderator.