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Joe_Barbarian

Is DE playing stalker mode ? Edit: DE is putting in an Opt-out so chill

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2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

In my first post I was not being toxic. I just explained that I will just use my rights to leave the game whenever this program decides that my "PvE mission" will randomly transform into a "PvP mission" without my agreement. As far as I know, I'm still the owner of my computer and of my time, if I decide this "new game mode" doesn't suit my plans, I'm perfectly right to just leave, or will you send the police to arrest me ?

Then, I was attacked by people who feel superior, telling me I'm "chickening" (because they're obviously better than me ? Maybe, don't know, don't care) and "guessing I play Dark Soul in offline mode" (whatever this means). That escalated afterwards ? Probably. Did I initiate it ? Nope. People were just too sensitive about someone informing them he will "disconnect".

So, in the interests of fairness...

Yep, you are absolutely the owner of your computer, your internet connection, and your own free time, so you definitely have the right to say “Nah. Not into this, not what I signed up for in my own leisure time,” and that’s totslly correct.

 

 

Buuuuut...you were also definitely a bit snarky in that first post about how you wanted to ‘inflict host migration’ on other players. That’s slightly less than cool.

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20 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

- somebody to have their opt out set to "on", which i reckon not all that many people will do, at least not if they are trying to farm things and such.

- the host will need to have a good connection, good luck with that.

- the host and anyone else in the squad to not be using meta weapons

add: "- nobody uses Operator to be effing invincible"

That's the reason why I am against Stalker Mode. It hardcore messes with Lore. DE would either have to disable invincibilty of the Operator which goes against the Operator or deactive Operator at all which goes against Lore because we were told in TSD and TWW to use our Operator to nullify the Shadow Stalkers' resistances.

I've yet to be told a good solution for this "issue"

 

edit:

8 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

setting off alarms during spys, playing hide and seek with a data mass during Mobile Ds, going for the Defense objective, wasting life support in survival,

I have played enough games where other people could sabotage my games/fun by unnecessarily lengthen the mission. That's why I play solo/friends only. I know who to blame and can discuss it with said person.

I bet you don't think it's funny if I hop into your games as Limbo, take the datamass, go into the Rift and do nothing

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1 hour ago, NotDealwithitdog said:

i mean they've said there won't be an option to opt out because then everyone would just opt out

No, Scott  said that he thought that if they gave an opt out then no-one would play (Which IMHO means it DOA but hey)

The only official statement regarding the presence of an op-out has been in the DC, and they do not match Scott's opinions.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

I actually thought it'd be pretty funny if the stalker spawned in and started setting off alarms during spys, playing hide and seek with a data Mass during Mobile defense, going for the defense objective, wasting life support in survival, guarding the capture Target. That would be a riot for sure. Lol 😂🤣😂 course that would also add another level of complexity too. 

I dunno man. When I hear the Stalker whispers, I’d rather think “Bring it on! Time for Edgelord Duel!” than “Oh for god’s sake, someone’s here to play hide and seek with the mission objectives and waste my time.”

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8 minutes ago, HorridaMessor said:

Thats why I'm advocating for "opt in/out". You don't want to be invaded? - Opt out (same thing as playing offline/hollowed in Dark Souls).

Of course the "opt out" solution would be ideal. But it won't work.

1- Implementing a feature with an instant option to deactivate it means you very well know this feature is risky/a lot of people don't want that. In a Communications point of view, it sucks. That's like saying "Okay we know the playerbase doesn't want this, but we'll implement in anyway, feel free to opt-out manually".

2- What if the Clanmates I'm regularly playing with have Opted-in ? Will I simply be able to play with them ? Will the mission be set as "opt-out" as long as one member has this function disabled (that would be a nightmare for the matchmaking) ? Will I have (or them) to change this every time I want to play with them ?

Technically, that seems too complex for nothing. That's why I highly expect this function to not exist.

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8 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

In my first post I was not being toxic. I just explained that I will just use my rights to leave the game whenever this program decides that my "PvE mission" will randomly transform into a "PvP mission" without my agreement. As far as I know, I'm still the owner of my computer and of my time, if I decide this "new game mode" doesn't suit my plans, I'm perfectly right to just leave, or will you send the police to arrest me ?

Then, I was attacked by people who feel superior, telling me I'm "chickening" (because they're obviously better than me ? Maybe, don't know, don't care) and "guessing I play Dark Soul in offline mode" (whatever this means). That escalated afterwards ? Probably. Did I initiate it ? Nope. People were just too sensitive about someone informing them he will "disconnect".

In your first post you have indicated that you can't wait to cause problems for other players and judging by the use of ":)" the prospect actually makes you feel good.

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Can't wait to leave the mission as soon as Stalker spawns just to inflict aHost Migration / Connection Lost to anyone using this Stalker Mode if it ever makes it live. :smile:

In the second post you are offending other players.

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Not chickening, I'm just hating everything that is PvP related, and everyone who will be playing Stalker Mode is probably some loser hoping to get free kills on low MR newcomers, or trolls trying to destroy Defense objectives.

And that'll be my very personal way of telling DE they really didn't need to bring PvP in this PvE-only wonderful game that is Warframe. PvP is toxic and some bullS#&$ like that can only bring this game down without bringing anything positive (as you said, it can't even transform Stalker into a challenge).

If that is not toxic I don't know what is.

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Doesn't need opt out.

He only needs rewards.

Like have him drop arcanes and see how many people still wanna opt out.

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8 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I dunno man. When I hear the Stalker whispers, I’d rather think “Bring it on! Time for Edgelord Duel!” than “Oh for god’s sake, someone’s here to play hide and seek with the mission objectives and waste my time.”

*Playing devil advocate here*

Why fight a kid and his doll when I as the stalker can just go screw up the whole mission. tenor.gif

in order for any of this to work stalker would not be able to mess with objectives and there would have to be an opt-in opt-out feature. still there's nothing stopping me from jacking with you while you're trying to do a spy mission.

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6 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Technically, that seems too complex for nothing. That's why I highly expect this function to not exist.

*Sigh* It's literally been stated in the DC that it will exist.

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1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

Of course the "opt out" solution would be ideal. But it won't work.

1- Implementing a feature with an instant option to deactivate it means you very well know this feature is risky/a lot of people don't want that. In a Communications point of view, it sucks.

2- What if the Clanmates I'm regularly playing with have Opted-in ? Will I simply be able to play with them ? Will the mission be set as "opt-out" as long as one member has this function disabled (that would be a nightmare for the matchmaking) ? Will I have (or them) to change this every time I want to play with them ?

Technically, that seems too complex for nothing. That's why I highly expect this function to not exist.

There’s an unbelievably simple solution for the problem of Public games where some players are opted in and some are opted out.

- So long as at least two of the four players are opted in, player Stalker can spawn in.

- Players who are opted out cannot interact with Stalker, and he cannot interact with them.

- But...players who are opted out cannot gain any drops or benefits either.

 

Bam, solved.

 

 

@(XB1)RDeschain82

I’m sorry dude, but I think that’s a terrible take. Stalker’s motivation is not “Hurr hurr I’m going to defeat the Tenno by annoying them.”

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

Doesn't need opt out.

He only needs rewards.

Like have him drop arcanes and see how many people still wanna opt out.

Reward doesn't matter to me. No opt out option? There's always uninstall option.

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3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Stalker’s motivation is not “Hurr hurr I’m going to defeat the Tenno by annoying them.”

Well if a trolly player is trolling with him that's exactly how they're going to use him. 

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Just now, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Well if a trolly player is trolling with him that's exactly how they're going to use him. 

And...you think this is a good thing, for the game?

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7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

There’s an unbelievably simple solution for the problem of Public games where some players are opted in and some are opted out.

- So long as at least two of the four players are opted in, player Stalker can spawn in.

- Players who are opted out cannot interact with Stalker, and he cannot interact with them.

- But...players who are opted out cannot gain any drops or benefits either.

 

Bam, solved.

Unfair for Stalker, though (not that I care, but DE does :tongue:).

- Stalker can't interact with me but he'll still see me ? So I can disturb him by getting in the way, spamming flashy spells ? And unless the Stalker has a huge red-ish glow on my face, how will he know I'm not a potential target ?

- I can't interact with Stalky but I can still buff/heal friends. If Stalker can't deactivate my buffs/auras, I'll just bring an assist frame and provide my teammates with 90+% damage mitigation at all times.

That's why I think opt-in and opt-out guys shall be split for the system to even work with matchmaking. And splitting the community is rarely a good idea.

Or... The opt-out shall win if one player has it activated. A huge chunk of the matchmaking pool will therefore be opt-out, leaving wannabe-Stalkers with a 20-minute waiting line.

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2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Or... The opt-out shall win if one player has it activated. A huge chunk of the matchmaking pool will therefore be opt-out, leaving wannabe-Stalkers with a 20-minute waiting line.

Which is the simplest to implement and the safest, so it'll be what DE starts with.

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1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

Unfair for Stalker, though (not that I care, but DE does :tongue:).

- Stalker can't interact with me but he'll still see me ? So I can disturb him by getting in the way, spamming flashy spells ?

- I can't interact with Stalky but I can still buff/heal friends.

That's why I think opt-in and opt-out guys shall be split for the system to even work with matchmaking. And splitting the community is rarely a good idea.

Or... The opt-out shall win if one player has it activated. A huge chunk of the matchmaking pool will therefore be opt-out, leaving wannabe-Stalkers with a 20-minute waiting line.

So, you do want to interact with Stalker mode, you just want to do so while being invincible? 

Because that’s kinda what I’m picking up there, mate. Besides, it would be simple for DE to just make it so that Stalker’s vision highlights players who are opted in, while dulling players who are opted out.

 

Look man, I’m trying to be sympathetic here, but can you please just stop for a moment and acknowledge that you are not making yourself look good. Dig up.

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4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

And...you think this is a good thing, for the game?

Reasons I stated before I was playing devil's advocate. And also they are the reasons why I think it's a horrible idea. And if it's implemented and there's no opt-in opt-out feature I'm done. Plain simple. 

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4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So, you do want to interact with Stalker mode, you just want to do so while being invincible? 

Never said I wanted. As I said, if this mode makes it live, I'll probably just quit the mission as I dislike the game randomly changing the mission type from PvE to PvP without my agreement.

But if Stalker can still see the opt-out guys and he has no way to interact with them, you have to admit that opt-out guys will still be able to disrupt him and protect their teammates, and that'd be unfair for Stalker who may face 2 opt-in warframes and 2 opt-out warframes to whom he won't be able to do S#&$ while they're protecting their opt-in teammates.

Just imagine trying to shoot at a target while two Limbos are casually trolling you from their Rifts, blocking your Line of Sight and throwing White Cataclysm everywhere to blind you. That's what this Stalker will have to face.

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8 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So, you do want to interact with Stalker mode, you just want to do so while being invincible?

Unless I'm very much mistaken that not what they're saying.

They're pointing out that non-targets in an invasion situation can make the Stalker's job much harder.

The mode has to have an opt out, it's got to be simple ( and that will make it DOA IMHO, but I don't mind that at all). all @chewarette is pointing out is the ways that someone who doen't want this game mode can mess with it given some of the suggestions floating about.

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1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

PvP is toxic and some bullS#&$ like that can only bring this game down without bringing anything positive (as you said, it can't even transform Stalker into a challenge).

Pvp is toxic largely because of people who do stuff like what you're suggesting. If you don't like toxicity, maybe you SHOULDN'T go out of your way to cause trouble for people. 

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What's toxic is all the people complaining about all the people who dont want to step in a big ol pile of %$#@ that is pvp in ther pve game.  I too will have stalker turned off if that's an option but if the other 3 have it on and he shows up anyway then I will abort mission like many others.  No one else will be to blame but DE then in my opinion for implementing it in that way.  I'll just be passing the grief on.  

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1 minute ago, Greenshockclaw said:

Pvp is toxic largely because of people who do stuff like what you're suggesting. If you don't like toxicity, maybe you SHOULDN'T go out of your way to cause trouble for people. 

PvP is toxic because people who revel in interpersonal conflict have a higher tolerance for it, and hence rarely see their behavior as bad, then get defensive and retaliate when called out on it.

Hence "carebear", "crybabies", "cowards" etc.

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1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

Unless I'm very much mistaken that not what they're saying.

They're pointing out that non-targets in an invasion situation can make the Stalker's job much harder.

The mode has to have an opt out, it's got to be simple and that will make it DOA. all @chewarette is pointing out is the ways that someone who doen't want this game mode can mess with it given some of the suggestions floating about.

The thing is, I agree with some of the underlying thought there, but disagree with the conclusions. 

 

I think that the mode is not doomed to be dead on arrival, I genuinely think that enough people would opt in to try it. And! I think that enough people would stay opted in for the mode to be a sustainable niche. Provided of course that the folks who are attracted to the idea of invasions can refrain from making the mode toxic as hell, and provided that DE have some basic common sense about implementing it.

 

 “Anonymous edgelord invades, steals mission objective, wastes your time for ten minutes until you get sick of his BS and abort,” is a sign of Stalker mode having failed.

 “Stalker invades and you have a tense and violent thirty seconds,” is a sign of Stalker mode working.

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2 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

PvP is toxic because people who revel in interpersonal conflict have a higher tolerance for it, and hence rarely see their behavior as bad, then get defensive and retaliate when called out on it.

Hence "carebear", "crybabies", "cowards" etc.

So, that’s a statement that could be cleaned up a little and then hard stickied to the top of every page of every discussion which might involve the border of PvP and PvE.

 

“PvP players: consider that what is normal for you is actually annoying for others, and that lashing out when people say you’re being confrontational is not exactly proving them wrong. People can have different standards for behaviour.”

 “PvE players: ideally, PvP is not some kind of personal pissing match. Remember that, it’s literally not personal, and you’re talking to folks who just enjoy a bit of conflict and competition.”

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