Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

[Ikusias]

I've tried this ad interim melee system and i find it wanting:

- weapon swap is a mess as you're randomly switched between primary and secondary on the whims of the game when leaving melee

- full melee combos are utter trash on most of the weapons i've tried, inparticular sparring (punches + kicks) throws you around and out of range of the opponent

- worse overall feel concerning control

- automated parrying is crap and interferes with gameflow, charged attacks and mobility!

- stances are crap and interfere with movement and targeting

- don't fix what was working

- many stances are worse than quick melee, give it back

[(PSN)The_Boshy]

The swiftness of gameplay this adds is AMAZING. I love the instant swap but I really wish I could block and use block combos without having to worry about switching back to my gun. An easy remedy for this while still retaining the enhanced flow would be you press melee to switch to melee then when you need your gun again you press the swap weapon button to revert to the last gun you held before entering melee mode.

[Ulvra]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)The_Boshy said:

The swiftness of gameplay this adds is AMAZING. I love the instant swap but I really wish I could block and use block combos without having to worry about switching back to my gun. An easy remedy for this while still retaining the enhanced flow would be you press melee to switch to melee then when you need your gun again you press the swap weapon button to revert to the last gun you held before entering melee mode.

Most of the block combos trigger already on the third swing, once that happens you can freely let go of the aim button and continue it, that way once the combo end or you stop meleeing you won't be taken to your ranged weapon. In the heat of the moment you can usually let go of the aim button and safely conclude your swings without issue, just need to get used to release the button slightly before you stop swinging your melee.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)X F14KAP X said:

I Disagee with the last two post as they do understand the issue other's are having. If, I speak how they did I would say  let's please get rid of this new sys for good  and allow the true  player race to press forward. There are people whom payed a great amount  to this game to enjoy it. Now that they dont, what do you say to the face of these REAL people.

Yeah, dehumanising other people is certainly a way to give your point validity. Here's a hint: Not. Try to argue your point and keep the insults in your pocket next time, that way you'll look at least a little mature.

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

14 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Most of the block combos trigger already on the third swing, once that happens you can freely let go of the aim button and continue it, that way once the combo end or you stop meleeing you won't be taken to your ranged weapon. In the heat of the moment you can usually let go of the aim button and safely conclude your swings without issue, just need to get used to release the button slightly before you stop swinging your melee.

 

Yeah, dehumanising other people is certainly a way to give your point validity. Here's a hint: Not. Try to argue your point and keep the insults in your pocket next time, that way you'll look at least a little mature.

Well hello to you too, Add the full post next time good sir. Love warframe cant play with friend at this time though and its a bad thing. I cant use this new melee sys and news in from one of my warlords as they have moved on to TERA now. "This game feels  wonky" everyone says this now its odd. Or more like the game feels like we're five year old's playing. I wonder what you think can help other people who cant now play this game happily like they did before the update.

Edited March 24, 2019 by (XB1)X F14KAP X
where to we're

[AreeSoothsayer]

Just a quick skim and saw alot of people with my opinion but I will state it anyway.

Remove Auto block.

They are my warframes. I want full control of all it's abilities. If autoblock is to be a thing, make it a mod.

[Ulvra]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)X F14KAP X said:

Well hello to you too, Add the full post next time good ma'am

And no.

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

3 minutes ago, AreeSoothsayer said:

Just a quick skim and saw alot of people with my opinion but I will state it anyway.

Remove Auto block.

They are my warframes. I want full control of all it's abilities. If autoblock is to be a thing, make it a mod.

No insulting you in any way but it is a mod (Reflex guard) i think its been 500 days I have so meany mods i forget. its just now on all the time when in melee... Good sir. 

[DeltaPangaea]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)X F14KAP X said:

No insulting you in any way but it is a mod (Reflex guard) i think its been 500 days I have so meany mods i forget. its just now on all the time when in melee... Good sir. 

Yeah, and Reflex Guard has been looked upon as garbage for ages.

[(PSN)RAM-786]

THANK YOU FOR MAKING CHANNELING RELEVANT AND BETTER!!!

First let me say that I kept being told channeling is a wasted stat by seasoned players and tbh it was hard to use it. Then Melee Phase 1 came and WoW,!!!  Toggle makes channeling easier to execute and helps with sustained dps/usage. 

Allow me to provide an example this weekend we’ve all been getting drunk on Kuva Daniels and during my last run or two I was with an energy abundant squad and I turned on channeling on my Gram Prime. My only ever riven I’ve been able to afford has channeling on it and I never used it. Now thanks to the blessing of Toggle Channel I ran pretty much the whole survival with Channeling turned on and sliced through things like butta.. finally felt bad ass with my Gram Prime!!!

THANKS DE AND KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK!!!

[DeltaPangaea]

I really have to ask, were people just not aware that there was a thing in the options to switch channeling between held and toggled before?

Because that was a thing.

It's nothing new.

[xZeromusx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)X F14KAP X said:

No insulting you in any way but it is a mod (Reflex guard) i think its been 500 days I have so meany mods i forget. its just now on all the time when in melee... Good sir. 

Just want to point out that they changed Reflex Guard with Melee 2.9. Now it increases the arc of your auto-block.

7 hours ago, Ulvra said:

...guardian derision is a bit awkward to use (though not impossible).

I'd personally change the latter to work on manual blocking if only melee weapon is equipped and let it work for auto-blocking only if you're carrying other weapons, I'd be happy then.

That is how it currently functions in 2.9 as you regain the ability to manually block ONLY if you just equip melee weapons and no ranged weapons, and it is not an acceptable state of affairs. Have you actually tested the melee system at all? Do you have any idea how a taunt skill is suppose to work? I can tell you that in every MMO I have ever played (quite a few), it has never required that you FIRST have the enmity of an enemy to perform your taunt.

Here is an acceptable, albeit still lacking, alteration: Make Guardian Derision AND Electromagnetic Shielding always on, without the need to block, when you have the mod equipped and you switch to your melee weapons. That way you don't have to equip ONLY melee weapons to make the mod usable, which is bloody asinine.

Edited March 24, 2019 by xZeromusx

[Ulvra]

1 minute ago, xZeromusx said:

Just want to point out that they changed Reflex Guard with Melee 2.9. Now it increases the arc of your auto-block.

That is how it currently functions in 2.9 as you regain the ability to manually block ONLY if you ONLY equip melee weapons, and it is not an acceptable state of affairs. Do you have any idea how a taunt skill is suppose to work? I can tell you that in every MMO I have ever played (quite a few), it has never required that you FIRST have the enmity of an enemy to perform your taunt.

Here is an acceptable, albeit still lacking, alteration: Make Guardian Derision AND Electromagnetic Shielding always on when you have the mod equipped you switch to your melee weapons. That way you don't have to equip ONLY melee weapons to make the mod usable. 

I think you misunderstand what I meant. With the current set-up, when you use melee you don't get the taunt effect, only when someone shoots at you and you are in a correct angle to block. At that point you will start taunting, but have no control over when you stop because that's entirely dependant on when they stop shooting.

This is also an issue currently for melee-only mode as you lack the control of when the taunting ends, but switching it to only trigger on manual blocking will fix that issue, but it won't fix it for ranged mode. As you suggest switching it there to taunt when equipped rather than when blocking would fix that issue, but making that a global fix would instead break it's effect in melee-only mode. I like the idea for ranged mode though, it'll at least give control back where it's needed.

[xZeromusx]

8 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

I think you misunderstand what I meant. With the current set-up, when you use melee you don't get the taunt effect, only when someone shoots at you and you are in a correct angle to block. At that point you will start taunting, but have no control over when you stop because that's entirely dependant on when they stop shooting.

This is also an issue currently for melee-only mode as you lack the control of when the taunting ends, but switching it to only trigger on manual blocking will fix that issue, but it won't fix it for ranged mode. As you suggest switching it there to taunt when equipped rather than when blocking would fix that issue, but making that a global fix would instead break it's effect in melee-only mode. I like the idea for ranged mode though, it'll at least give control back where it's needed.

You lack the control to stop? If you have ranged weapons equipped, you can literally just stow your melee weapon to turn it off or use the attack button. And in Melee only mode, if you press the attack button, you stop blocking and the mod turns off. But if you're going to equip that mod, then I expect your intent is to use it, which is why I have no qualms if they just want to alter the mod itself instead of completely revamping the entire melee system to re-institute manual blocking on the RMB (Although that IS my preferred change, but it will be more work).

Edited March 24, 2019 by xZeromusx

[Ulvra]

2 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

You lack the control to stop? If you have ranged weapons equipped, you can literally just stow your melee weapon to turn it off. And in Melee only mode, if you press the attack button, you stop blocking and the mod turns off

Being forced into running your combos in order to stop yourself taunting isn't much in the ways of a viable option as it forces you into prolonged movement altering animations or forces you to constantly hit empty air. In melee-only mode you have manual blocking available, so it's not an issue to make that trigger. As for ranged mode, yes, you can aim to switch it off, which is why it sorta works, but it needs to be different from requiring someone to first shoot at you first, because you have no real control there, switching to "when equipped" would work, but it'd be a nuisance if that carried over to melee-only. This is the reason I called it "awkward", because it works, kinda, but not really well.

[xZeromusx]

18 minutes ago, Ulvra said:

Being forced into running your combos in order to stop yourself taunting isn't much in the ways of a viable option as it forces you into prolonged movement altering animations or forces you to constantly hit empty air. In melee-only mode you have manual blocking available, so it's not an issue to make that trigger. As for ranged mode, yes, you can aim to switch it off, which is why it sorta works, but it needs to be different from requiring someone to first shoot at you first, because you have no real control there, switching to "when equipped" would work, but it'd be a nuisance if that carried over to melee-only. This is the reason I called it "awkward", because it works, kinda, but not really well.

Well at least we've found common ground, the current system is just too bloody awkward to make the mod actually viable or reliable or controllable. You know, all this could be completely remedied if people were willing to give up the auto-block function to return manual blocking on the RMB. Making most any action automatic in a third person shooter seriously ruins immersion as it is. There's truthfully no skill in just pointing your aiming reticle at something and letting the game's system just do the rest. That kind of automation is something I would expect in an MMORPG like Final Fantasy 14, where blocking is all done automatically for you because you have 50 other abilities taking up skill bars. Warframe is NOT that ability intensive. Returning manual blocking to the RMB interferes with nothing, as opposed to having it automatically switching you back to your guns (Which the LMB and weapon swap buttons already do).

Edited March 24, 2019 by xZeromusx

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

If you change something core related you must start changing other things. Issue with this will be bugs, lots of them. Dont fix it if it ant broken is what i live by. This game was not broken so I wonder what other angle could of been taken. Melee in Melee mode still no good as I could see if it allowed glide and channeling as normal  but its the same as gun mode with no gun. Mods is getting in-depth saying that the controls are fine and how does this mod work now? that a full over haul of problems to come. the bugs will pop up vastly in number while change goes on. It was a long wait for the game to get this stable. I play and pay to support this game not to be a Debugger forever.

[xZeromusx]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)X F14KAP X said:

If you change something core related you must start changing other things. Issue with this will be bugs, lots of them. Dont fix it if it ant broken is what i live by. This game was not broken so I wonder what other angle could of been taken. Melee in Melee mode still no good as I could see if it allowed glide and channeling as normal  but its the same as gun mode with no gun. Mods is getting in-depth saying that the controls are fine and how does this mod work now? that a full over haul of problems to come. the bugs will pop up vastly in number while change goes on. It was a long wait for the game to get this stable. I play and pay to support this game not to be a Debugger forever.

To quite an extent, I have to agree here. For me, the sole thing I find positive about the new melee system is the faster swap to your melee weapon, which quite honestly could have been achieved without entirely reworking what the controls in the old system were for the new one. I've played Final Fantasy 15 where the main character draws weapons from thin air in the blink of an eye, and so the particle effects while quick swapping was a non-issue to me, and perhaps even an enjoyable upgrade to the physical animations of stowing and drawing weapons. If that was the sole change to the old system, faster animation speeds switching weapons, we would have zero complaints. The old system worked. The only thing that the old system honestly needed was a tightening of the animations for quicker and smoother transitioning.

[_Blackwatch_]

For the 1st 20 min of playing warframe with the new melee changes i havent went through all of the changes BUT ONE thing stood out like a sore thumb and that was the quick switch. I prefered the old "holding F" to swap weapons because i was able to change my melee button from "e" to "left click", and channeling was changed to "e" I did this was because i didnt want ANOTHER  broken "e" key in which resulted in replacing my keyboard please DE everything is fine JUST RETURN THE HOLSTER i dont want to not play warframe becasue of this issue.

P.S quick switch is annoying please get rid of it

[(PSN)RAM-786]

2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

I really have to ask, were people just not aware that there was a thing in the options to switch channeling between held and toggled before?

Because that was a thing.

It's nothing new.

Tbh I wasn’t aware. I think some folks on console shy away from messing with the button mapping and toggles.  I generally go with how things are rolled with a nod to the devs trying to share a thoughtful standard and helpful standard config. Thanks for sharing though clearly something to consider in the future but unlikely 🙂

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RAM-786 said:

Tbh I wasn’t aware. I think some folks on console shy away from messing with the button mapping and toggles.  I generally go with how things are rolled with a nod to the devs trying to share a thoughtful standard and helpful standard config. Thanks for sharing though clearly something to consider in the future but unlikely 🙂

Yeah, I just had my channeling set to toggled and on Z and it worked great. I can't check at the moment, but if we actually lost the ability to switch between held/toggled, that's a flat, indisputable downgrade.

[Vanarle]

1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Yeah, I just had my channeling set to toggled and on Z and it worked great. I can't check at the moment, but if we actually lost the ability to switch between held/toggled, that's a flat, indisputable downgrade.

I've always had channeling set to held which worked better with my controller setup. Since the update its been on toggled and the option to switch seems to be missing. 😕 Unless they've moved it and or I'm just blind.. It looks like that option went away with the manual block button.

[Ofeban]

What I like:

• Certain aspects of the mechanics feel smoother.
• Angled slams can be useful.
• Amalgam mods are cool.

What I don't like:

• Removal of Blockglide removes viable air melee combat. The most specific application being midair slide-attacks to headshot units and attack flying units.
• Aimglide/Blockglide can no longer be used immediately after Bullet Jumping. There is now a ~0.5 second delay.
• I have to run Melee-Only loadout to get Blockglide back. Thanks for at least doing that. I can sacrifice guns + flow farm from guns if I have to.

[(PSN)DaCajun]

Before the rework I could be mining, fishing, or scanning something when enemies come around and all I had to do it was quick melee then go back to mining, etc. Now every time I just want to melee an enemy disturbing me while I'm mining, fishing, or whatever I have to keep pulling out the item wheel to re-equip my mining tool or fishing spear. This breaks up the fluidity of what I'm doing and just gets annoying after a while, especially if enemies keep re-spawning periodically in the area.

Why can't whatever is equipped previously regardless of it being a primary weapon, a secondary weapon, mining tool, scanner, or fishing spear just be fluid with the new melee rework. Why does my primary or secondary weapon need to be re-installed and not whatever item i was using after I just want to quick melee a nuisance then quickly go back to what I was doing while mining or fishing? 

So far that is the biggest issue I have with the new rework. I really do enjoy the new fluidity of the gun to melee play. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by (PS4)DaCajun

[Airwolfen]

Yeah its a bit annoying atm. Should be fixed at some point though.

[Sablesword]

Every time that I have used melee with my mining tool, fishing spear, or scanner out, zooming has swapped back to the tool/spear/scanner, just like it does swapping between melee and a gun.