Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

[DoomFruit]

On 2019-03-26 at 9:38 AM, Same said:

Melee 2.9/3.0 isn't really meant for melee. This is an update meant for guns. It's concerning that an update called melee really means shiny fashion accessories. You'd think it would be centered around our favorite smashy slashy yeeter bonkers, but it ignores the glaring issue with a lot of weapon stances.

Actually, it ruined guns as well. You can't alt-fire your gun straight after meleeing, because the sword has forced itself into your hand and won't go away unless you explicitly tell it to. Syndicate procs on guns are crippled, because again, your sword has forced itself into your hand and won't get out of the way to either let the meter increase for an explosion, or to let the meter empty ready for the next. Automatic reloading of empty magazines is also broken if you melee, because again, the sword has decided that getting in your way is a great thing to do, your gun is no longer equipped, and as such it won't reload. Very problematic if you Exergis something close and then need to hit something else which has also approached you from the other direction, marginally less so for the Tigris and Vectis family.

And there are of course the problems with stances being utterly horrible which have been said over and over and over and over again (right when the potential melee changes were first described months ago), then promptly ignored by DE when they decided to force them on us. Oh well, we've still got spin attacks. I suppose that someone over there thought that Maiming Strike and the Atterax weren't being used enough.

[Ikusias]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Oh well, we've still got spin attacks. I suppose that someone over there thought that Maiming Strike and the Atterax weren't being used enough.

Don't count on it... Steve clearly said in the past that they'l slay memeingstrike with the melee update

[Ham_Grenabe]

3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Actually, it ruined guns as well. You can't alt-fire your gun straight after meleeing, because the sword has forced itself into your hand and won't go away unless you explicitly tell it to. Syndicate procs on guns are crippled, because again, your sword has forced itself into your hand and won't get out of the way to either let the meter increase for an explosion, or to let the meter empty ready for the next. Automatic reloading of empty magazines is also broken if you melee, because again, the sword has decided that getting in your way is a great thing to do, your gun is no longer equipped, and as such it won't reload. Very problematic if you Exergis something close and then need to hit something else which has also approached you from the other direction, marginally less so for the Tigris and Vectis family.

And there are of course the problems with stances being utterly horrible which have been said over and over and over and over again (right when the potential melee changes were first described months ago), then promptly ignored by DE when they decided to force them on us. Oh well, we've still got spin attacks. I suppose that someone over there thought that Maiming Strike and the Atterax weren't being used enough.

Agreed on the inconveniences, especially the "alt-fire is disabled by melee mode" problem.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Same]

Will there be any sort of news on the feedback we've given here?

[(NSW)Equinoxturnal]

I like the fluidity of the new melee, and being able to fluidly swap in and out of full melee. The quick melee attacks always felt boring to me, since they didn't vary much between weapons aside from speed and range. Now you hop into your stance right out of the gate and have to use your weapon in unique ways.

My one complaint is I wish there was manual/toggle blocking. Partially so I'm not randomly blocking all the time and partially because I really enjoy guardian derision and miss being able to use it.

2 hours ago, Same said:

Will there be any sort of news on the feedback we've given here?

This x2

[Heidelgard]

I can't wait for a "use legacy melee" option.

That's the only thing I hope to see in future updates.

Until then, I shall call this Gunframe.

[Ptozzen]

I'm in complete agreement with many others in this thread about blocking. I'd prefer to have manual blocking, opposed to automatic.
If I want to use guns, I just tap F and switch to them as I feel the need for them. Now, RMB automatically pulls out my primary or secondary weapon, and puts me in a terrible spot with the auto zoom on aim. I get confused, and get myself killed, as a result of not being able to see a thing.

On another note, why, oh why, does Garuda's talons not count as an equipped melee weapon, despite functioning as one?
There's a few missions I simply can't get into, if I don't equip a different melee weapon. Garuda's talons are GOOD, incredibly so, and they're super fun to use. So why can't I use them in every mission, while using her as my warframe? It seems like a very strange problem that shouldn't have been one.

[Lion]

With Melee 3.0, can we please have the option to bind melee finishers to a separate key?

Especially using a radial blind Excalibur, finishers are slow and clunky, and divert too much of your time to a single enemy while the animation plays out, when you should really be focusing on the bigger group around you.

[Snoit]

I still can not understand why it was necessary to combine the two functional systems into one half non-working.

You can get used to limp, but you can hardly get pleasure from it (I know what I'm talking about). The new system feels awful. 

I hear a lot of negative feedback from my friends. And not all those who are dissatisfied with the new system, melee players.

As I said earlier, getting used and having fun are different things.

I don't know if you read all this DE. I hope that yes and I hope that you will do something about this.

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Snoit

[SteveCutler]

11 hours ago, Lion said:

With Melee 3.0, can we please have the option to bind melee finishers to a separate key?

Especially using a radial blind Excalibur, finishers are slow and clunky, and divert too much of your time to a single enemy while the animation plays out, when you should really be focusing on the bigger group around you.

I'd like this too. I've always had the same complaint - but actually recently, I've been finding it hard to do finishers when I do want to. I use Inaros sometimes, blind the enemies, then want to finisher them for lifesteal - but instead just kill them with a regular melee. So having a separate button would benefit it both ways: don't do a finisher when you don't want to, do do a finisher when you do want to.

[DaftMeat]

I am not a fan at all of automatic blocking. As someone who uses charge attacks often (Kestrel, Redeemer, Sancti Magistar, etc.) auto-blocking will interrupt charge attacks. Blocking should still be an active option by pressing the Aim key. Trying to do so now just changes you back to gunplay, which makes melee aim-gliding impossible unless playing a mission with only a melee weapon equipped.

When going into a mission with only a single sidearm and a glaive weapon (without a Primary), there is no easy way to change to melee-only. Dual-weilding treats glaive Channeled throws differently than melee-only: When using a gun/glaive charge attack throw there is a reticle that aligns to change the throw into a Channeled throw. More often than not, this will often lead to the glaive exploding in my Warframe's face and killing myself.

I also miss being able to manually switch between guns and melee via long press of the Weapon Swap key, so that I could change weapons without firing or swinging.

TL;DR summary:

1. Allow auto-blocking to be disabled
2. I'd rather Aim/Block not automatically change between guns/melee
3. Dual-wielding channeled glaive throws needs adjustment
4. Bring back long-press of weapon swap key

[(XBOX)X F14KAP X]

On 2019-03-29 at 5:31 PM, Heidelgard said:

I can't wait for a "use legacy melee" option.

That's the only thing I hope to see in future updates.

Until then, I shall call this Gunframe.

Yes, Yes you speak of truth. Much truth. Take my money.

[Waxavii]

Hello,

I just came to say how much I hate this revamp, I main the Hirudo weapon, and now I can't do my main attack which is just regular punching which also heals me, I don't like breakdancing all over the place, or maybe I'm missing something.

EDIT:

I think I'll just change the stance mod or remove it altogether, what gives.

Keep the good work.

EDIT 2:

After changing stance I'm not that mad anymore.

EDIT 3:

I love it, don't change it.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Waxavii
Add more info, more hope.

[(PSN)saniglenn]

I agree wholeheartedly with the lad quoted below.
I've bought Saryn prime access, Mesa prime access and 1000 plat a few times, but now I'm forced to take a break from the game.
I've tried the new patch, and it ruins what I loved about the game.
I won't be returning to Warframe until blocking is something I control again.

I am a Melee player.
This update did not enhance melee, it killed it.

On 2019-03-23 at 1:22 AM, Maxim_M_Payne said:

• Melee that was changed to do the above out of blatant favoritism toward the players that mindlessly spammed Atterax and Meme Strike, in order for that same group to shoot enemies in mid-air, is not fun melee. They didn't truly use melee as anything but a meta-tactic stick to blindly flail around, and it wasn't their main source of fun. Why are you listening to their immediate auto-praise, and ignoring the criticism and frustration of actual melee mains?
• Melee that I can no longer draw to make cool poses with in Captura is not fun melee.
• Melee that no longer makes Exalted Blade and Hysteria override my normal weapons, therefore causing them to randomly be interrupted by projectiles or my own actions; and in turn utterly ruining that delightful feeling of science-fantasy rampage that they use to make me feel, IS. NOT. FUN. MELEE.

 

We just want to block. We just want to actually hold our melee weapons again, even if we also have our guns equipped. We just want channeling, Guardian Derision, and Life Strike back to normal; because despite what you think we ACTUALLY USED THEM and found them quite handy. 

We want melee that is actually still melee. 

If this is your collective idea of "improving" melee combat, and only just the first phase; I shudder to think of what other fundamental mechanics are going to be gutted based on the feedback of Tenno who are gunslinger players, not hack-and-slasher players. 

It just isn't fun, it broke too many things, it's not satisfying, it ruined stances, and frankly it wasn't a good change in any regard; except for making our elemental effects' visual indicators upon enemy models finally match our weapon energy color (both ranged and melee), which actually did enhance FashionFrame(TM) and reduce player eye fatigue. It would be nice to also implement that with bullet color.

 

 

 

[vaarnaaarne]

It'd be a good idea to accompany Ground Finishers they added in Air Finishers (it's also something that could possibly be fitted into Warframe's speed and control scheme, possibly even something that could add a valuable move if Air Finishers had an inherent mobility element in addition to other perks). At least then melee wouldn't have to patiently wait for a surprisingly air resistant Bombard or Gunner to finish falling back down into hitbox area.

Main priorities tho should remain improving stance balance to make more stances worthwhile, restore melee sprinting, improve melee range average, and rework combo inputs to remove Delay and Hold inputs in favor of more intuitive and functional inputs for Warframe's combat speed. And remove Maiming Strike.

 

On 2019-03-29 at 6:57 PM, Ikusias said:

Don't count on it... Steve clearly said in the past that they'l slay memeingstrike with the melee update

I'll believe it when I see it. Memeing Strike has been a cancer on melee meta since the very first drop of that mod (and/or roll of Riven modifier), but it has never been addressed properly. They should have just nuked the mod from existence already in January 2016 with extreme prejudice. It's been three years now, and they still haven't really gone against Memeing Strike, so I'm not exactly holding out my breath that it will be slain. I'll put higher odds on Memeing Strike being the only type of melee that isn't nerfed.

[BratwurstBob]

My 2 cents:

1. When in channeling mode the auto-blocking drains my energy in seconds. Literally. Please don't drain my energy from auto-blocking. Or give us a mod that reduces the drain on blocking.

3. Please give me a better indicator of when I'm channeling than some subtle glow effect, I sometimes need to switch on/off several times to see if its on or not. Since the weapons now glow much more than before when elementals are equipped (when are they not?) I can't tell anymore.

[Tengarnos]

Took out my Redeemer P again after this update and was shocked like hell. Thanks to auto block its nearly impossible to use the charge attack aka shoot cause autoblock interrupted the whole time. Can we pls at least get an option to deactivate the autoblock from the new meele for gunblades? And most likely thrown meeles since they will be affected in a negative way too.

[GrindGameUser]

Not being able to equip my melee and use the same button as I do to fire my other weapons has made my spin attacks useless. To spin attack you need four buttons, one for moving forward one  to sprint and a third to start the slide, and then a forth to execute the attack. With my melee equipped I can do this with ease as the mouse button for fire. Now I have to figure out how to put all 4 key presses on to my key board, that's just not fun. Now if you give me a bind for a spin attack I can get over this, but if you leave it like this it kills the flow, square peg round hole.  I'm still not over you taking away the melee jump, that was insane fun there, oh, and I didn't read any posts before this one, I'm just giving my blind observations to what I've noticed with this change.

Edited March 31, 2019 by GrindGameUser

[MagnumKnight]

bring back old melee, new melee is a hot mess, it's actually ruined the flow of the game when all they needed to do was make a separate keybinding to switch melee and gun instantly. Autoblocking is disruptive towards melee game play and the lack of agency in blocking not only ruins the point to a couple of different weapons and mods, it also takes away some of the survivablity of excals during exalted blade, since it's no longer as though they're blocking during their melee attacks. While i get that last one may need a look at, so far the new melee system has been un-fun and obstructive to genuine enjoyment of that aspect of the game at large, and honestly has had no upsides to it other than easier directional ground pounding, and instant weapon swapping, but those two have come at a rather unappealing price, especially since the new "aim" combos will instantly switch from melee to gun the minute the combo is done, and that again ruins agency in desiring to melee.

Over all, this change has been obstructive to overall enjoyment of melee, and needs to be toyed with before seriously pushing it forward.

as mentioned, just making a keybinding for instant and gratifying switch between gun and melee modes would have been far more ideal, while keeping blocking intact would have been the better option rather than the broken awkwardness of trying to force gun and sword play together.

Edited March 31, 2019 by MagnumKnight
typo

[Tengarnos]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb GrindGameUser:

Not being able to equip my melee and use the same button as I do to fire my other weapons has made my spin attacks useless. To spin attack you need four buttons, one for moving forward one  to sprint and a third to start the slide, and then a forth to execute the attack. With my melee equipped I can do this with ease as the mouse button for fire. Now I have to figure out how to put all 4 key presses on to my key board, that's just not fun. Now if you give me a bind for a spin attack I can get over this, but if you leave it like this it kills the flow, square peg round hole.  I'm still not over you taking away the melee jump, that was insane fun there, oh, and I didn't read any posts before this one, I'm just giving my blind observations to what I've noticed with this change.

shift+w+ctrl+e does the spin for me. In this case its no different to old system for me.

[(PSN)Immortal_2345]

This feels like a step backwards. Having to aim in order to pull off combos is not fluid at all. In the old system I could swap to each weapon type at will with just the swap weapon button. Now anytime I want melee and use a “block” combo I have to aim first and then hit melee. Not sure how it feels with M&Kb but with a controller it’s clunky. 

Not sure if future changes will help alleviate some of the issues, because it feels very incomplete. 

[supernils]

about "hold RMB combos":

This happens if you use LMB to attack instead of the dedicated melee input, like probably many players. I use the dedicated melee input only to switch to melee, then continue with LMB.

the usability issue isn't even that when I don't chain inputs gapless I'm switching to primary weapon by accident.

But why does primary weapon have to come up at the END of the combo, long after I let go of RMB? that's really annoying.

 

[Gnohme]

I know everyone always says "bind finishers to another key" - and that's fine I guess but I think I'd just rather finishing moves act as normal attacks do, where the animation hits dudes around you too if it makes contact. Right now it's like - I'm finishing a dude with a hammer in the middle of a bunch of dudes - and even though if I were just hitting him normally all the guys around him would be getting knocked around - for some reason when doing a finishing move your attacks do not interact with anything except your victim. It does sort of create these situations where the time it takes to do finishing moves can be detrimental - even if you have stunned every dude in the crowd they might snap out of it by the time you're done smashing the guy you're finishing.

[(PSN)Skopos]

I very much prefer the old system. Hopefully my low post count will indicate how infrequently I feel compelled to voice any kind of concern with this game but this new system is really reducing my enjoyment of the game.

The point of these changes seemed to be to mix up gun play with sword play - I feel like we already had that with the quick melee button, I could do some shooting with my guns and if I needed to slice a MOA or extract loot from a container I could press quick melee and then be returned to my gun (or equipped item, like scanner, drill, spear), or if I wanted to carry on slicing things for a bit I could continue hitting the quick melee button. Now if I swing my sword I have to press aim immediately after to get back where I want to be - gun in hand ready to fire, and not wandering round looking silly carrying a seven foot sword - I'm not that into fashion frame and I generally don't mind what my warframe looks like but this sight really irritates me. I have found myself less inclined to use melee since the change. I have never had a use for the combos, I know lots of people do and that's great but it seems strange to force everyone into it, rather than being able to swing my blade in a nice consistent motion I have to do some unnecessary spiralling back-flip every few swings - I imagine most people would dislike if every 5th round fired from an assault rifle their warframe flipped into a headstand for no reason (I also imagine some people would love it but still). I'm not saying take away combos but maybe they could be left to those who want to use them (ideally by manually equipping a melee weapon). I haven't really used block since mastery rank 2 so I can't comment too much but I can see the downsides people have pointed out. The slam attacks are ok I guess, but could have existed in the old system right?

I don't know if PC controls have benefited from the changes but personally, playing with a controller, it seems this update would have been better and achieved most of it's goals by just increasing weapon swap speed by 500% - everything else has had a negative impact on my gaming. I don't recall a change this big ever being reversed by DE but sadly I'm hoping for this being the first time. I hope at the very least there will be an option to use the old system (but I doubt this is likely)

[The-Excalibur-Prime]

As a founder, closed alpha tester, and deeply devoted fan, I've clearly been around for my fair share of changes.

Good changes, like Movement&Damage 2.0s.

Bad changes like Vay Hek._(joke)

But this change; is perhaps one of the worst changes I have ever seen. 

 

Thankfully its a VERY easy fix. And I look forward to the other benefits it brings once fixed! :)

 

Why?

The controls, for those of us who understand you can edit key binds, are shot.

 

Example:

My old keybindings where as follows;

~ : Swap to "Melee Mode" [MM]

L-click: Shoot | Melee Attack [MM]

R-click: Aim & Aim Glide | Block & Block Glide [MM]

Middle Mouse: Quick Attack | Toggle channel [MM]

Mouse 5: Alt-Fire Gun

Functionality: Clicks worked for combos and effectively made the fighting seamless at swap.

                                                                 
My 'new' keybindings:

New functions in blue

Removed in red

Conflicts in yellow

~ : Swap to "Melee Mode" [For reference, Fix everything by restoring this as an option. And or making melee mode uninterrupted by aim.]

L-click: Shoot* [ends melee] | Melee Attack (Toggleable option for changing this; But it still sucks.)

R-click: Aim & Aim Glide [ends melee] | Block & Block Glide  Arbitrary required combo button that sometimes ends melee instead.

Middle Mouse: Quick Attack & Toggle Melee | Toggle channel[incompatible placement now]

Mouse 5: Alt-Fire Gun | Toggle Channel

^{*Shooting in this context also means firing explosives at point blank when you mean to melee crates & things thus killing yourself.}

Functionality: While combat could indeed be quicker, never knowing if i'm in or out of melee mode, and the inability to aim glide in melee mode means I lose almost all of my combat awareness and end up blowing myself up, wasting ammo, or meleeing at long distance foes. All of which are clearly bad situations, with none worse than killing yourself in solo runs due to explosives. It also effectively forces me to relearn a system that I feel is at the very core of the game, and losing the valuable skill I've accrued in the other system over years.

                                                                 

In short; This is a simple change, with huge impact. And while I love everything else that has gone on with the overhaul, i feel this missed a mark for those of us who are melee mains. Yes, the gun and power mains of the game will notice only improvements, those who main the weapons in anything other than quick attack mode are sorely neglected. The simple solution is to re-introduce an option to have "Hard toggle" for melee mode, that disables the swapping off of melee mode from click attack and aim. We don't need block, but if we still need the button for combos, we need the button to have no conflicts such as removing our melee weapon.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by The-Excalibur-Prime
grammar