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Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, (PS4)The_Boshy said:

I agree it wouldn't take to long to get used to performing the new block combos. However, the inability to block actively, feels really bad to me. weapons that gain benefits from blocking like the Vaykor Sydon. How it used to work is i could build up my blind with only a few enemies around then move to a larger group and blind them all. but I cant do that anymore. Any thoughts on this?

The Vaykor Sydon was definitely one of my big worries too, however I find it even easier to use now than before because it doesn't even require you to be actively blocking to hold the charge. You will passively charge it as you autoblock and can release it at will. Now I haven't had time to go in and run a mission with it mind you, but based on some quick testing in the Simulacrum this seems to be the case, for both melee-only and otherwise. The one minor annoyance is that I do need to remember to toggle my channeling off again or it'll start eating up my energy, or slow down charge generation due to parry staggers, but since channeling is going to be entirely changed to something else that's a small thing and I can get used to that until then (I forgot to test what happens if you switch to ranged while you have charges going, so unknown for now).

Other things I was concerned about is Guardian Derision (I know Electromagnetic Shielding also has some issues, but I have not played with that yet, so I cannot speak for it), which I actually use on my Vaykor Sydon. Here any blocking will immediately taunt enemies and you won't taunt until you break the block manually. This causes a few issues of control, namely that in ranged mode you can't taunt on demand because you need someone to attack you first, though you can break by aiming, while in melee-only mode you lack the control of when taunting start (you can block to force start it, but if anyone shoots at you, you're taunting like it or not) and the only way to break it currently is to look away from the angle of block (or technically swing constantly at empty air, but don't consider that viable). This makes it rather awkward to work with. What I would like to see them do there is to make it taunt on equip for ranged mode, so having your melee out taunts, putting it away cuts it, while in melee-only mode I'd like to see it trigger only on manual blocking. It's small things and I'm sure they'll get that tuned up.

Edited by Ulvra
Added a little clarification
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This may have been brought up already - I didn't re-read the whole thread - but (at least with the default settings), the "secondary fire button becomes channeling button" option means you have to re-aim to use their secondary fire. For example:

1. Equip corinth.

2. Melee someone.

3. Hit secondary fire (in my case, middle mouse button). 

What I expected, until I remembered that channeling takes over secondary fire, is to immediately switch to the Corinth and launch an airburst - one click. What I get is "bzzt" and shiny lights on my melee weapon.With normal fire, you just go from one to the other - you don't have to aim the weapon, you just click the "shoot" button. However, I can't jump right to secondary fire - there's an extra step, however brief. 

So I guess - without my game open to test - I have two questions:

1. Can channeling be remapped away from secondary fire to somewhere out of the way?

2. If so, will doing so allow an immediate "switch to gun and fire secondary fire" event?

I can live without channeling (I don't use it, and my current config would make it hard to do so - melee is on the mouse wheel). 

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Posted (edited)

Replying right away because I decided it was easier to go test it (used the Grakata with Wild Frenzy), the answers are:

 

1. Yes, you can map "Melee Channel" to any button on the keyboard you like; it doesn't have to stay on your "secondary fire" button*, but...

2. NO, you still can't switch to your gun by hitting secondary fire. Even if channeling is on a different button, melee mode appears to "turn off" secondary fire. You have to manually return to your gun before using it. 

 

Suggestion: address that somehow!

 

* This may be more of a problem for controller users; there aren't a lot of extra buttons to offload channeling to. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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Posted (edited)

This bug has been here for a while. Thought it would be hotfixed but it wasn't so I made a detailed post along with videos explaining it.

Edited by GoogleChromy
Grammar

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Posted (edited)

TL;DR.
1. Remove "Melee with Fire Button Input" from the options menu.
2. Add "Hold [Switch Weapon Key] to equip and lock Melee."
3. Update "Press [Switch Weapon Key] to switch between Primary and Secondary, or unlock Melee and equip last ranged weapon used."
4. While Melee is Locked: apply "Melee with Fire Button Input" by default, and replace "Aim/Aim Glide" with "Manual Block/Melee Glide," and disable "Auto-block."
5. While Melee is Unlocked: remove "Melee with Fire Button Input," and replace "Manual Block/Melee Glide" with "Aim/Aim Glide," and enable "Auto-block."

As I play more with Melee Phase 1 changes, I still like it overall... except when my intended melee strike becomes an aim or a shot. Again and again. F.

Happens either: when executing different melee combos consecutively, or while wanting to do a melee attack after a jump or glide; both while "Melee with Fire Button Input" is on. It's more consistent than the weapon switching after the update. LOL.

One weapon switching issue mentioned in my initial feedback is partly caused by "Melee with Fire Button Input." And yes, it can be hotfixed, but if I may suggest to simply remove it as a toggle option. Removing the toggle option will not just reduce the complexity of the system, but will also make the "gun-melee" mechanics consistent to all players (e.g. For gun-melee play, we have to use only "E" for melee).

And for us who prefer to set "Fire Button or Left Mouse Button" as melee attack prior to Melee Phase 1, why not just give us an option to lock our melee weapon and auto-apply "Melee with Fire Button Input" there instead? And while melee is locked, replace "aim/aim glide" with "manual block/melee glide." Adding an option to lock melee will not only remove the "oops aim/shoot" during melee combat and break our flow, but will also give players freedom to switch to gun-melee or full melee play on the fly (e.g For full melee play and use Fire Button as Melee, we have to lock melee - no more unequip Primary and Secondary required, and "E" remains as is).

About auto-block and manual block: sometimes we just want to get hit for that Rage and Hunter Adrenaline. Really. Oof.

IMO,
 - recognizing the difference between gun-melee and full melee play styles,
 - and emphasizing their differences through default controls for each style, 
 - then providing the option to switch between the two anytime
will make the new melee system more accessible, more clear, and more simple for all types of players.

Plus no other changes required to the rest of Melee Phase 1 (maybe except making weapon switching more consistent in relation to power cells, datamass, mining, scanning, tranq, etc. - a QA pass about this would be nice. LOL.)

 

Cheers!

Edited by Mic.ph
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I honestly think that Mid-combo slam attacks should be removed entirely, and the jump-then-slam mechanic could be refined further.

With a new member on the list, the Two-Handed Nikana, the list of melee weapons with crappy comboes continue. And I won't lie, I don't like experimenting with stance mods. Mostly what interests me is the reach or angle of the attacks, and their speed. 

Many stances have comboes with high hit count, but end with a slam, or have one mid-combo. And i think this is just awful.

These slams disorient the player with effects, and also ragdollize enemies which always does more harm than good. They become harder to target or fly the hell away, so the combo on them can no longer continue. The whole slamming mechanic just feels all messy.

Speaking of messy, when we talk about the slam from air, the damage dealt to enemies shouldn't be this terribly low, or have this huge falloff. It pretty much diminishes the offensive capabilities of the slam attack and just makes it into a fast method of stylish falling.

I'd be very happy to see these flaws tweaked in the upcoming phases!

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Feedback:

Note: PS4 controller 

I like the easy switching from melee to weapon and back.  However, I find when I go from melee to ranged I often have the other gun active, not the one I used before melee.  This has led me to only equip one gun for hard missions so that I never need to swap guns. 

I don’t know what causes this.  I swap from melee to gun by aiming.  Somehow my gun switches behind the scenes while my melee weapon is out.  Controllers use many buttons for different purposes.  For example, the use ability command also makes use of the weapon swap button.  

I like the aerial melee slam attack.  I am not sure how to land an arch wing now without ground slamming.

 

 

 

 

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Is there any way for me to use the old system for melee and gun play, the new system is completely unintuitive for a build centred around melee. I can no longer equipt my melee weapon and channel in a way that makes sense. Every time i try to channel it will auto switch to either my primary or secondary guns and zoom aim. Even if i change my key bind for channel the auto block (of) and inability to hold equip my melee is extremely intrusive to the way i am able, and prefer to play. I shouldn't be forced to completely change how i play a game after having played said game for several years. With the new mechanics melee builds (atleast for me) are completely unplayable and usless and as im not overly fond of gun play i can no longer enjoy playing your wonderful game. I understand what you where trying to do with this update but the complexity of what was, was definitely better than the overly simple of what is now

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Using the 'sword alone', came today with it's opportunity, to be tested.
Namely; the melee only missions of the 6th year anniversary (congrats btw)

Your brain wants to attack, just as how things used to be.
So you start clicking that left mouse button... and are just standing there for a moment.
Makes you feel like derping out at first.
But on second thought...

If a melee weapon is the only equipped weapon.
Why not let the left mouse button, work with it?

Anyway, that's just a thought that crossed my mind.
It may be conflicting in the code, or cause bugs, etc.
I'm not a developer in the end.

It just felt... odd.
Very odd.
Something you where used to do, for so long.
Feels a bit like a wet towel in your neck, while having a cold (figure of speech).
In short; awkward and uncomfortable.

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I had an issue when playing as Baruuk that when I cancelled out of Serene storm I would be “unarmed” and I’d have to fiddle with the buttons to re equip a weapon. Plz fix.

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Is it me or have the ground slams become weaker despite now mostly being larger? I used to be able to break any canisters and the like within one slam of any weapon but now it takes more with weapons that have a smaller radius, unless you slam right next to them.

I'm also having trouble ragdolling or knocking down enemies with weapons that definitely did before, but that might be a client side thing.

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15 hours ago, Mic.ph said:

TL;DR.
1. Remove "Melee with Fire Button Input" from the options menu.
2. Add "Hold [Switch Weapon Key] to equip and lock Melee."
3. Update "Press [Switch Weapon Key] to switch between Primary and Secondary, or unlock Melee and equip last ranged weapon used."
4. While Melee is Locked: apply "Melee with Fire Button Input" by default, and replace "Aim/Aim Glide" with "Manual Block/Melee Glide," and disable "Auto-block."
5. While Melee is Unlocked: remove "Melee with Fire Button Input," and replace "Manual Block/Melee Glide" with "Aim/Aim Glide," and enable "Auto-block."

As I play more with Melee Phase 1 changes, I still like it overall... except when my intended melee strike becomes an aim or a shot. Again and again. F.

Happens either: when executing different melee combos consecutively, or while wanting to do a melee attack after a jump or glide; both while "Melee with Fire Button Input" is on. It's more consistent than the weapon switching after the update. LOL.

One weapon switching issue mentioned in my initial feedback is partly caused by "Melee with Fire Button Input." And yes, it can be hotfixed, but if I may suggest to simply remove it as a toggle option. Removing the toggle option will not just reduce the complexity of the system, but will also make the "gun-melee" mechanics consistent to all players (e.g. For gun-melee play, we have to use only "E" for melee).

And for us who prefer to set "Fire Button or Left Mouse Button" as melee attack prior to Melee Phase 1, why not just give us an option to lock our melee weapon and auto-apply "Melee with Fire Button Input" there instead? And while melee is locked, replace "aim/aim glide" with "manual block/melee glide." Adding an option to lock melee will not only remove the "oops aim/shoot" during melee combat and break our flow, but will also give players freedom to switch to gun-melee or full melee play on the fly (e.g For full melee play and use Fire Button as Melee, we have to lock melee - no more unequip Primary and Secondary required, and "E" remains as is).

About auto-block and manual block: sometimes we just want to get hit for that Rage and Hunter Adrenaline. Really. Oof.

IMO,
 - recognizing the difference between gun-melee and full melee play styles,
 - and emphasizing their differences through default controls for each style, 
 - then providing the option to switch between the two anytime
will make the new melee system more accessible, more clear, and more simple for all types of players.

Plus no other changes required to the rest of Melee Phase 1 (maybe except making weapon switching more consistent in relation to power cells, datamass, mining, scanning, tranq, etc. - a QA pass about this would be nice. LOL.)

 

Cheers!

simply perfect, and reaches out to both player bases and solves most problems than just solving some. upvote from me.

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The new content is out and this controller Melee junk was launched. Its  like making a new car that looks sexy, but you have to do calculus to make it start and turn off. 

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Posted (edited)

I definitely agree with the people who don't like how exalted weapons aren't exclusive anymore, aka how you can aim and it just shoots gun. It kinda gets rid of the "exalted" feeling because part of having an exalted weapon out is that it's your one and only weapon. Exalted alone, if you get what I mean. It's esp awkward when dealing with stuff like Valkyr's 4 because it goes in and out of invuln depending on your weapon aim status. 

Personally, overall, I like how easy it is to execute combos without fully switching to melee; however, I still think that it is possible for preserve the "hold F to go sword alone" while still making it possible to execute combo during quick melee. It's already that way. If melee is out and you hit aim while pressing e, you execute combo. Even the old quick melee could've worked that way too. 

Also, as clunky as the old "holster before you can shoot" used to work, it helped melee to feel more organic. It made it feel real. Right now, melee feels very fast but cheap IMO; it's great how fluid it all is, and DE definitely got that right, but now it feels like too fluid, almost like it's all meshed into one thingy. IDK if that's what they wanted but having grown up with Melee 2.0, I came to have great respect for the sword alone. 

Not to mention channeling...OOPH. I know this is Melee 2.9 but ooph, channeling lost all the oomph that it had after it became toggle based. I still miss being able to go full melee and slam left click to unleash my inner devil trigger. Overall, I feel like a lot of the changes are good but that the inability to go sword alone without unequipping everything else + the overly fluid nature of weapon swapping have dampened Melee 2.9's appeal for me. 

Edited by METAHUMVN
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ONE MAJOR PROBLEM with melee 2.9............

You need to fix being able to go from gear wheel equipment to melee BACK to gear wheel equipment.

Using the Cephalon Scanner is now a nightmare because if you need to kill anything between scans you have to go through your gear wheel to get back to your cephalon scanner which is a major pain in the ass.   You use to be able to equip the scanner and just melee enemies out of the way and always ave your scanner out.  That is now impossible.  This also applies to everything else gear whee related.  Fishing, Mining, Conservation.

gear wheel -> melee -> back to gear wheel

-----------------------------------------------

Otherwise no complaints from me.  I love auto-blocking alot.  Super helpful to avoid SOME of the harpoons infested ancients and grineer toss at you to knock you down.  I managed to get a 2k hit streak yesterday in a survival,  didnt know crit multiplier went up to 4x lol.  

Didnt check out channeling,  dont think you changed anything there yet?   But what would be nice is if channeling built up a multiplier for status ailment damage

-----------------

Well If I was going to complain about one more thing in melee, it would be that single jumps dont let us get high enough to do ground slams very well.  I would like to see single and double jump heights improved just a tad  Or add glide time to normal single/double jumps so we have time to aim our slams.  Not everyone is Reb with insane mouse sensitivity.  I feel like Im only going to do ground slams vs stuff thats in front of me and only just for fun,   not because I need or want to.  I have seen other people post that slams feel weak and I have to agree.   To small aoe,  to small damage,  so even if you do mess with them its not much benefit to.  

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After a few weeks with 2.99x, I've consciously stopped using melee to any significant degree. My issues haven't changed since my earlier posts (auto-block is still wretched, and most stances are still all form and no function), just my patience with them. I used to have so much fun with melee in this game, and I've been anticipating 3.0 for nearly a year, so my excitement plummeting with each exposure to the new system has felt especially tragic. 

I'm part of a clan that works to bring new players into the game and help them get their footing, and I've only heard negative about the melee lately. With no bias or preconceptions, many of them have been complaining about weapons we've been recommending because the stances cause them to jerk around or become immobile - a problem we hadn't encountered back when melee was smooth and responsive.

As I mentioned earlier, Steve asked us to spend time with the new system before judging it. I've been using it every day since its release, and the more time I spend with it the more frustrating and ill-conceived it all feels. It really seems like so much has been taken away from melee, and precious little has been added to it. 

I hope we get a followup to this soon. It was bad when DE went silent about 3.0, but the silence is worse when we're stuck playing with a broken, incomplete system.

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Posted (edited)

I will say that I'm okay with auto-block, but I'm a mostly-guns, sometimes-melee, never-combo player. I have my melee attack bound to mouse-wheel-down, so basically my melee is just EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. No combos unless it's by accident. Unfortunately, it does jerk me around or halt me in place a lot, due to the stances. That has to be addressed.

But for me, auto-block is okay. Sometimes it saves me from getting caught in the tractor's nuts. But for players who make a point of using it for a purpose, I definitely support a way to actually revert to the controlled blocking. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe
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HOW TO MELEE 3.0

 

We are at dawn of Melee 3.0.but first let me express my gratitude for the effort you guys (Digital Extremes) put to make Melee great again. It was very fluid and robust but still got rooms for improvement and if your didn't mind hear me out here. Here my take. And you guys (Players) are welcome to critics and give opinion, but be mature responding, and maybe give your take also. lets start healthy discussion. thx

P.S. English is not my native language so bear with me and sorry for wall of text in advance.

 

1. Channeling

When talking about channeling, some player consider is useful and some not. Its polarizing. 

Question: What make channeling awesome?

Answer: [Life Strike]. Am I right? Yeah and that sweet damage bonus also.

Question: What make channeling sucks?

Answer: Energy Thirsty and recently toggle to channel which you all guess it. Auto-Block + Toggle Channel = I need Energy Pizza ALOT.

I didn't know about you guys but personally I rather use my Warframe abilities then spend it on channeling to kill small group of enemies with melee unless you are too dependent on [Life Strike], Hey there a ton of other way to heal yourself already and while [Life Strike] Give a good chunk of healing the penalties you receive defeats the benefits you get in return.

Solution/Suggestion:-

- Combine current channeling into Charged Attack. Its like your regular charge attack but now its behave like [Energy Channel] mechanics. I called it Empowered Attacks. It behave slightly different from current charged attack. The energy will be deducted only once for each Empowered attack base on the Melee type. It work like this:

i. Channeling/Charged Attack (3 Stage of Charging) e.g [Tatsu]. Each stage of channeling multiply the damage output and energy cost. Example. Blue: 10, Purple: 25 and Red: 50

Tho it has speed penalty.

giphy.gif

ii. Channeling/Charge Attack (Halfmoon Slash) [Nikana] Type and with [Excalibur] [Exalted Blade] The (Halfmoon Slash) will travel forward instead of Near AOE Slash.

giphy.gif

As you can see, now you can hold and release when you see fit. You can also perform this whilst Walk/Sprinting. And whilst channeling, you gain damage reduction depend on weapon blocking percentage in 90 degree in front of you and the rest 270 degree will gain half of damage reduction. And also immune to Knockdown.

 

Conclusion: Other than it will be extremely cool befitting Ninja/Samurai theme of Warframe, Its also solve the energy hungry of the current channeling and also now you can free the button for channeling for other function which brought us to next point.

 

2. Blocking

I remember when [Mesa] 360 degree 4th nerf to the ground when it was consider "Lazy" and not require much player participation. You get what Im trying to say here. You guys contradicting yourselves now. Auto-blocking is not good for Warframe and its lazy. Manual Blocking must be implemented back if we talking about healthy future of Melee gameplay. I can see the attempt to make blocking useful and you guys almost did it with mods like [Guardian Derision] and [Electromagnetic Shielding] and melee such as [Vaykor Sydon] and [Ack and Brunt] which offer an entirely new alternative gameplay style that not about killing but otherwise . I enjoy it myself while it lasted and i believe some others too.

Question: What make manual blocking awesome?

Answer: Well, quite few actually. Im not even being bias here. Look. Better defense when aim gliding and plus you have clear view on where you wanna ground slam, Total control over mods like [Guardian Derision] and [Electromagnetic Shielding] and not auto trigger the effect with Auto-block, not to forget the block combos which contribute a lot to open up wider combo possibilities in future (Since we going to ditching out the "PAUSE" combos)  and well...this one is personal favorite...easy back flips 😄 

Question: What make manual Blocking sucks?

Answer: Seriously? Ok ok I get it, I know not all people like hold down a button forever to perma block. Hey an option for toggle to block will be handy. But current auto-block is as bad as well since you will spend all your time on meleeing(attacking) and that 45 degree nerf. Who the hell going to stand still and wait for auto-block. NONE

 

Solution/Suggestion:-

- Encourage player to become more active when blocking with few new mechanics implementation like perfectly timed blocking bonus or I called it Empowered Block like what they have in God of War franchise and Devil May Cry franchise. Yes it require timing and No it is not 1 sec block, it just 0.5 Sec Empowered Block and after that it just become regular block. This system reward player who want to participate on the Melee combat by giving them a set of of Active Melee maneuver/Counter-attack and Passive Buff to weapons . For example Active Melee maneuver/Counter-attack can give AOE Stunt on successful Empowered Block. Some Melee Give Passive Buff to either next Empowered Attack Damage or Bonus Damage to Primary and Secondary weapons for certain amount of time.

i. Royal Guard gameplay from Devil May Cry 5

giphy.gif 

ii. Golden Fleece gameplay from God of War 2

giphy.gif

 

Conclusion: This will entice player to participate more in more active manner and willingly to explore the depth of melee combat in Warframe with its high risk high reward gameplay and just like aforementioned point that I made that blocking also contribute to simplification of Combo system now that it still "Pause Combos" and we shall continue to next point to explain it further why blocking contribute to combos

 

3. Combo

Melee combo Is a determining factor on what make a certain melee great. Take Heavy Blades with [Tempo Royale] Stance, a devastating AOE beast. Without it. It was more like a large hunk of Iron. Im not going to touch about Pause Combo in this since its confirmed by DE that it will gone in 3.0. So im going to talk about post melee 3.0. Lets take current combo system for example. Without Block+E and R as heavy melee button it will become as simple as

E+E+E+E

A or D or W+E+E+E+E

S+E+E+E+E

Hold E

Directional key+Ctrl+E 

Midair E

This prove problematic as previously we got 4 E Combos now down to 2 only. You can already see the absence Block (RMB) narrows the combo even further. 

giphy.gif

 

Solution/Suggestion:-

1. Implementation of R (Reload button) when in melee mode as Heavy Attack button (not charge attack but a heavy attack, its different). Imagine using [Obex] , E is for fist combo and R is for Kick combo

giphy.gif

2. All pause combos now can be activated with directional key+RMB (Block) and current Block combo remain the same but without directional key.

3. Passive Empowered Attack corresponding to Combo counter (Combo changes as combo counter goes up). I believe DE mention something about implementation of Devil Trigger like mechanic. So in case that is true then Combo counter will function as "Rage" that will augment the combos.

 

Conclusion: DE kinda have a lot on their hands now. I cant expect them to adopt this Idea but this is my take on how to diversify and deepen the learning curve on melee in Warframe. Now i done with this lets talk about quick actions and holstering.

 

4. Quick Actions and Holstering

Although not loudest amongst all, the voices of those who cries from the feedback from both Warframe Redit and forums can be heard and screaming to bring back the Quick Melee. While I love the current system but I can see the appeal of Quick Melee.

Question: What make Quick Melee awesome?

Answer: Fast, Quick,Instant,not slow and do I need to say more.

Question: What make Quick Melee sucks?

Answer: Hmm you guys give an Idea. I dunno.

 

Solution/Suggestion:-

- Ok firstly why did call it Quick Action not Quick Melee specifically. My answer is the action involve not only Quick Melee but also Quick Shoot. I call it Actions Commitment (Ok that was bad name) but what it does is:

i. When in shooting mode; Full melee mode only occur when player meleeing more than 1.5 sec or when player initiate Charged Attacks. Quick tap on E will not trigger full melee mode.

ii. When in meleeing mode; Full shoot mode only occur when player shoot more that 1.5 sec or when player hold down LMB. Quick tap on LMB will not trigger full shooting mode. Not all weapon is viable for this Quick Shoot action. Viable weapons gonna be only non-scope, non charge individual fire weapons like [Vasto Prime][Tigris][Arca Plasmor][Kulstar] , and many which falls in this group of weapon. 

 

Conclusion: With this, the gun sword play just become extra flexible like how Dual wield Gun+Glaive offer new alternative gameplay. I didn't know what else to say, but this is the only viable solution that offers best of both world without sacrificing more button for console players whilst offering new kind playstyle.

 

5. Extras

We almost there guys, if you read this far, thx so much. Doesn't matter you agree or not. Thx for reading this confession of Ideas of mine. Now to fix few flaws that my conflicting with my concept

- Dual wield Glaive+Gun, Glaive detonation: To detonate the Glaive, Simply tap on E again after Glaive is thrown.

- Gunblades Charge/Empowered Attack conflict. For simple melee combo/ shoot just tap(or hold) E or R perhaps. But to execute the Empowered Charged Attack, just hold down RMB+(Hold)E which will fire massive 180 degree across 3 meter flak cannon and deadly knockback.

 

Now to my extra idea

- Ability to dual wield Gun+Shield

- More mods for blocking bonuses.

- Ability to equip Arcanes on Melee (non zaws)

- Gun Accessories 😛 like Sugatras for guns 😄

 

Ok that the ends my Wall of text. Have happy day. Thanks 😄

see ya goodbye GIF by GIPHY Studios Originals

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So far I'm liking most of the Melee Revisit: the animations are smooth, combos are easier to access, the new VFX are nice touches.

My main complaint is the difficulty with using a synthesis scanner as some previous posts have indicated.  It's especially frustrating as some of the Nightwave missions are "Scan X Simaris targets."  On the first target hunt I went on in the Void, it was a very unwelcome shock that after using melee to kill an enemy in my way, I had to re-equip the scanner before continuing.

One comment about melee in general, as well, is that channeling never seemed to be a critical aspect of melee combat (and seems to be even less so now, probably because I haven't figured out how to do it and have no particular need of it).

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I love the new system. It makes the game much more fluid and it allows guns to compete with melee weapons by giving you the ability to use your combos and at the same time use your weapons to hit far away enemies, which in the previous system would have required a cluncky holstering animation. 

I can think of only 2 suggestions:

-As many people have said before me, add the ability to hold the switch weapons button to enter a “locked” melee mode, which uses the “aim weapon” button to manually guard. This is needed because some mods (that allow really cool playstiles) require manual blocking, i.e Guardian Derision and Electromagnetic shielding, and to a lesser extent because of parrying (yeah it’s a meme but useful at times) and Vaykor sydon. 

-In the future rework of stances, if you decide to keep all the combos (which I wholeheartedly suggest you do, don’t dumb down the system with just standing still and forward moving combos) make sure that all simple button mash combos (E E E ...) and all forward walking combos do not lock the player animations and allow full movement speed. 

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18 hours ago, METAHUMVN said:

It kinda gets rid of the "exalted" feeling because part of having an exalted weapon out is that it's your one and only weapon.

My exact issue, number one. Hysteria used to feel like being a mix of the Incredible Hulk with Wolverine; now it's been reduced to a neat decoration treated as secondary and inferior to just shooting everything. Come to the think of it, that's my main issue with the new melee; or rather, the fact that the changes have effectively removed melee as a method of combat altogether from the game; and turned it into the kind of passive afterthought to combat found in HALO. My name ain't John-117; and if I wanted to spend my time solely firing guns, with the occasional punch thrown in, I would have asked.  

11 hours ago, Gene_Freak said:

Steve asked us to spend time with the new system before judging it. I've been using it every day since its release, and the more time I spend with it the more frustrating and ill-conceived it all feels. It really seems like so much has been taken away from melee, and precious little has been added to it. 

Amen. I don't doubt love, time, and the effort DE puts into the game; but in all regards other than the new visual effects, and the ability to aim my ground slams, this feels like a downgrade. Two fancy new distractions do not change the fact melee combat isn't fun to use anymore. 

-There's no active melee mode anymore; and my prior ability to go from shooting into a Dark Souls bossfight-style rampage was what sold me on the game originally.  This removes the core of my player style prior to Buried Debts (which is more than four years), limits my personal choice in how I play the game, and removes 95% of the fun of using Valkyr as my main Warframe. 

-Instead of the nice, familiar holsters that I genuinely liked to watch, and enjoyed hearing the familiar shink noise of; we now have yet another super-seizure-y energy flicker, as weapons magically teleport in and out of my hand while clipping or misaligned altogether from the Warframes' models. 

-Combos don't work right because I can't hold and release RMB as prior; and in turn, the auto/toggle state of the current block means that the RMB-involving combos of stances will keep going in a loop; until I switch to a gun or other ranged weapon. The AI auto-block is so eager to help, in fact, that it has taken me out of Exalted Weapons, hacking, sniper scope, ability activation, reloading, charged alternate weapon-fire like that of the Battacor, and beam weapon shooting. 

-The removal of my control over block, as well as my ability to use melee for the entire course of a mission if I so choose, tells me that my input doesn't matter. Quite literally, as these things now largely perform themselves and my button input doesn't control them. The moment a game plays itself, it stops being a game. The player has gone from an interesting character within the story to experiencing the sensation of having it read to them by a boring grandparent. 

-The changing of Channeling to being activated by Alternate Fire seems to be a good on paper; but in reality it flat out doesn't work if your Alternate Fire had a binding that wasn't on the mouse. I had alternate fire bound to T, and channeling does nothing at all anymore; so so much for Life Strike, Killing Blow, Dispatch Overdrive, and all the other useful mods thereof.

5 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

In the future rework of stances, if you decide to keep all the combos (which I wholeheartedly suggest you do, don’t dumb down the system with just standing still and forward moving combos

^This. Improve the objectively bad and awkward stances (Crossing Snakes, Sundering Weave); and just make sure all attacks move the player and keep combat in motion as the combos of good stances already currently do (i.e., Winding Claws, Shattered Village, Leviathan Rain, etc.). Don't remove another thing out of gameplay altogether, rather than bothering to fix it; especially since this is exactly what it feels like was done with Phase One of melee "improvement". Rather than give weapons blocking percentages that were at least 45%, DE removed control over block altogether. Rather than making holster speeds faster, our ability to actively wield melee got removed and we got an annoying energy flicker effect as decoration-melee teleports into our grip.

 

 

 

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On 2019-03-26 at 3:29 AM, youngjdef said:

I don't enjoy:

  • The non-controllable blocking. You guys had good intentions to try and raise player durability, but that could have been done by increasing the blocking percentage of weapons across the board. Instead, it effectively sends the player the message "you need to be watched and can't defend yourself".

I'm glad you mostly agreed, but kindly do not edit my statements. I meant what I said. Removing players' ability to control their block not only garbled every stance; it also sends the impression the game will "play" itself and we don't actually get to control anything.

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6 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

I'm glad you mostly agreed, but kindly do not edit my statements. I meant what I said. Removing players' ability to control their block not only garbled every stance; it also sends the impression the game will "play" itself and we don't actually get to control anything.

K

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