Melee Revisit: Phase 1 Feedback Megathread

[Dark__Thoughts]

On 2019-08-26 at 11:46 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Greetings Tenno!

In brief, we owe you an update on Melee changes. Last Devstream had one remark about something maybe making it into Gauss’s Mainline, but this is no longer the case. You can see the clip here: as stated by Steve on Devstream #130.

We wanted to give you some insight into our process and why this decision was made.

The melee “beast” is a large one to tackle, and while we could add in some minor changes, the knock-on effects to other aspects of melee (such as Stances, blocking, Mods, Augments) may cause more issues than improvements. Frankly, we need to look at the system more holistically and make decisions based on thorough testing, and re-works of the varying components involved.

Those reworks are not going to make it into the system before our up and coming mainline update, and while we would have loved for these changes to make it sooner rather than later, we simply need more time to implement these changes to the expansive collection of melee systems in place.

What we can say with certainty is that your concerns have been heard, and they are at the forefront of our minds when we consider alterations. The changes to quick-melee, how channeling and blocking are affected all the way to how Valkyr’s power set has felt the knock-on effects of blocking changes. As we are sure you can understand, this transition will be much more complicated than the transition from Melee 1.0 to 2.0, and we want it to be the best that it can be.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, and we hope you enjoy all that the Mainline Update has to offer when it reaches you at supersonic speeds!
 

All I want is range mods to be additive, rather than multiplicative, so that all those short ranged melee weapons actually and finally become usable (or rather get the chance to be usable).

[0_The_F00l]

Half the year is gone , is there going to be any update to this?

melee is kinda in a bare bones bridge state , i can use it to get across but i have to be careful.

[vaarnaaarne]

If this radio silence on part of DE continues, eventually we will have to resort to drastic measures: Stand out here in this thread and yell "rabble rabble rabble."

But really, it would be much appreciated if they said something about all the feedback towards autoblock and why it doesn't work at all and why we need manual block back, or if they addressed the stealth nerf to melee and movement for almost every stance from Chimera onwards.

Edited September 24, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[Sikelh]

On 2019-09-20 at 4:53 AM, motorfirebox said:

Holistically, right now we've got two buttons for switching from melee to guns: the switch weapons button, and the button formerly known as block. We really only need one, and removing manual block has caused all manner of issues. If you apply the instant switch to the switch weapons button when you've got melee equipped and restore block, it seems like that would resolve the biggest issues with Melee 2.9.

Three buttons when we only need one actually. The shoehorned it onto what used to be channeling and shoved channeling to where any secondary fire/attacks should be.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

If this radio silence on part of DE continues, eventually we will have to resort to drastic measures: Stand out here in this thread and yell "rabble rabble rabble."

But really, it would be much appreciated if they said something about all the feedback towards autoblock and why it doesn't work at all and why we need manual block back, or if they addressed the stealth nerf to melee and movement for almost every stance from Chimera onwards.

I hate DE's silence...they never reply to feedback, they never say why or how this will work properly, and they do stuff on their own without much consideration to our feedback

 

Until so many people complain about it they wait for ermmm idk 3 years to consider changing it

[dbugz]

Why not just bring back the option for a "Full Melee Mode" as a manual toggle like before?

This way the default mode is the new, quick firearm-to-melee and vice-versa (not the old "quick melee"), and then the old "full melee mode" which is purely melee that has manual blocking and doesn't switch out to primary/secondary weapons automatically. The latter lead to the loss of controlled aerial blocking with melee weapons unless you went in mission having only a melee weapon equipped.

It's been 6 months since this gameplay change was implemented and no further concrete plans seem to have been given in response to the feedback in this thread. Hopefully something before this year ends?

Edited September 26, 2019 by dbugz

[vaarnaaarne]

It would be nice to hear what exactly is being planned for the next mainline and what concerns that have been raised since Phase 1 launched are going to be addressed and if not all what first.

 

Also, to establish that our ultimatum carries dire weight:

rabble rabble rabble

[xdeathhungerx]

Waiting for fixes.

[sorcer3r]

Quote

UNINTERRUPTED COMBAT

[...]

BLOCKING

Blocking [...] is automatic [...]

Autoblock causes interrupted combat... obviously.  Even people who did not play the game should have noticed that.

 

[DoomFruit]

Devstream 131 apparently said "Melee 3.0 is still being worked on. Stances are getting reworks to simplify them, we have major changes to channelling being done, tweaks to combo metres, and more. We’ll have a full Dev Workshop with more info when it’s ready to share."

Interesting, but not massively promising. Stances weren't problematic (on the whole) due to their complexity, they're problematic because they throw your character around and rip the controls out of your hands.

I know that it says "and more", but I can't help but wonder if this is actually going to address that idiotic autoblock, syndicate procs being broken or the inability to fluidly fight and scan/mine/fish; or whether these problems are just going to be ignored again.

[Twilight-Knight]

It's have been a long time now and please add toggle auto block on and off.

Developers just basically disable player's defense stance when they are using wall latch or slowfal. I just auto aiming and and lost whole visual around me and it's anoying.

This * new phase * so bothering and boring the melee main players.

[Akura-archangel]

Sorry for my bad language.

Seems DE just don't care about our comfort when we using melee. They won't to admit their mistake with this piece of sh*t that they called melee 2.5 and make a appearance that "all fine". All was normal with old 2.0 system, but NO, they need changes, they brake all system but MAKE CHANGES, no one need it but THEY WILL MAKE F*CK*N CHANGES! Almost year normal melee players suffer but we f*ck*n don't care. Yes DE? Nothing care when money going to your pockets, isn't it?

Don't know about others, but I don't need f*ckn autoblock. I don't need 3 times f*ck*n autochange weapon by RMB. I need to change weapon to melee when I hold F button, cause this is COMFORTABLE. I need to push RMB and make block when I use melee and not f*ck*n aiming. Not the F*CK*N aiming! Half combos of almost all melee weapons need holding block for making and I need to remove all other weapon just for using this without pain in my *ss. And its terrible, just nightmare. What are you doing DE?

[SilviaS12]

8 hours ago, Akura-archangel said:

Sorry for my bad language.

Seems DE just don't care about our comfort when we using melee. They won't to admit their mistake with this piece of sh*t that they called melee 2.5 and make a appearance that "all fine". All was normal with old 2.0 system, but NO, they need changes, they brake all system but MAKE CHANGES, no one need it but THEY WILL MAKE F*CK*N CHANGES! Almost year normal melee players suffer but we f*ck*n don't care. Yes DE? Nothing care when money going to your pockets, isn't it?

Don't know about others, but I don't need f*ckn autoblock. I don't need 3 times f*ck*n autochange weapon by RMB. I need to change weapon to melee when I hold F button, cause this is COMFORTABLE. I need to push RMB and make block when I use melee and not f*ck*n aiming. Not the F*CK*N aiming! Half combos of almost all melee weapons need holding block for making and I need to remove all other weapon just for using this without pain in my *ss. And its terrible, just nightmare. What are you doing DE?

I've been here since early pages of this post and throughout, I have lost hope in DE and Warframe, they killed it when they killed melee. Time to change the name to warfight: the ranged shooter game with swords just for show but no telling whatsoever. Just public announcements about the combos as if they are even usable at this point throwing you uncontrollably over cliffs and away from battles like the player is retarded, and to top it off the autoblock. I guess we don't know how to block for ourselves.  

[DArthurVaderian]

Didn't they say they were removing  combos in the devstream? I cannot imagine that going over well

[DeltaPangaea]

On 2019-08-27 at 7:46 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Greetings Tenno!

In brief, we owe you an update on Melee changes. Last Devstream had one remark about something maybe making it into Gauss’s Mainline, but this is no longer the case. You can see the clip here: as stated by Steve on Devstream #130.

We wanted to give you some insight into our process and why this decision was made.

The melee “beast” is a large one to tackle, and while we could add in some minor changes, the knock-on effects to other aspects of melee (such as Stances, blocking, Mods, Augments) may cause more issues than improvements. Frankly, we need to look at the system more holistically and make decisions based on thorough testing, and re-works of the varying components involved.

Those reworks are not going to make it into the system before our up and coming mainline update, and while we would have loved for these changes to make it sooner rather than later, we simply need more time to implement these changes to the expansive collection of melee systems in place.

What we can say with certainty is that your concerns have been heard, and they are at the forefront of our minds when we consider alterations. The changes to quick-melee, how channeling and blocking are affected all the way to how Valkyr’s power set has felt the knock-on effects of blocking changes. As we are sure you can understand, this transition will be much more complicated than the transition from Melee 1.0 to 2.0, and we want it to be the best that it can be.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, and we hope you enjoy all that the Mainline Update has to offer when it reaches you at supersonic speeds!
 

See, something like this, just acknowledgement of this entire massive thread of displeased people? This makes me happy.

Games are hard, and I know you guys need to keep up the pace of shiny stuff to keep the lights on, so I'm okay if it has to take some time (Even if I'd have preferred that time to not be 8+ months or something), but simple acknowledgement of the issues people have is enough to placate me until the day changes land.

It was the silence more than anything else that was aggravating me to high hell and back.

Thanks Bear.

[OrsonBear]

I said it once and I want to point it out again. I hope in Melee 3.0 we can hold E + arrow keys to perform all combos instead of keep pressing E. 

I'll give you an example: 

I'm using Wukong Prime a lot lately and for the forward combo, I only like the first 3 hits, the left, the right and the swirling attacks, for the last ground slam, not a fan, at all. The last hit somehow makes me feel I lost momentum, the first 3 is very smooth and you slow down a bit while performing the last one and I hate it. 

Secondly, the last hit will shake your camera and I have a pretty fast attack speed, I'm feeling nauseated. 

Currently, the only way to not perform the last hit is to press E exactly 3 times while holding forward and who counts that while in a fight? What I want is to press and hold E, and when the swirling animation occurs, I release E so that last hit won't be executed. 

And there are people complaining about auto blocking interrupts combat, if my suggestion is considered, the game can detect whether the player is still holding E, activate auto blocking only while E is release would solve the problem. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Laudator

[DoomFruit]

7 hours ago, Laudator said:

I said it once and I want to point it out again. I hope in Melee 3.0 we can hold E + arrow keys to perform all combos instead of keep pressing E. 

I'll give you an example: 

I'm using Wukong Prime a lot lately and for the forward combo, I only like the first 3 hits, the left, the right and the swirling attacks, for the last ground slam, not a fan, at all. The last hit somehow makes me feel I lost momentum, the first 3 is very smooth and you slow down a bit while performing the last one and I hate it. 

Secondly, the last hit will shake your camera and I have a pretty fast attack speed, I'm feeling nauseated. 

Currently, the only way to not perform the last hit is to press E exactly 3 times while holding forward and who counts that while in a fight? What I want is to press and hold E, and when the swirling animation occurs, I release E so that last hit won't be executed. 

And there are people complaining about auto blocking interrupts combat, if my suggestion is considered, the game can detect whether the player is still holding E, activate auto blocking only while E is release would solve the problem. 

That will break charge attacks - something extremely important for glaives and gunblades.

[OrsonBear]

1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

That will break charge attacks - something extremely important for glaives and gunblades.

I don't see a problem here, they can bind it to other keys or even implement double tapping, double tap E to start up the charge and you can interrupt it by press E again while the animation is not finished. 

[Snoit]

Hello, DE! Just want to ask. Are you planning to return to us the ability to block attacks manually? If not then just say it. So I do not waste time and finally moved to Destiny 2.
Thanks as always for your silence!

[el_chanis]

On 2019-09-20 at 5:41 PM, Dark__Thoughts said:

All I want is range mods to be additive, rather than multiplicative, so that all those short ranged melee weapons actually and finally become usable (or rather get the chance to be usable).

all mods need to be this way. Thats how you make all mods work on all weapons, closing the gap between crappy weapons and the meta ones.

[vaarnaaarne]

Would need a general rework of how enemies stats scale and such too. It would probably improve things all around, since the %-based nature of the mod system does make it extremely volatile and prone to getting out of hand.

[(PSN)azul86sapphire]

18 hours ago, Snoit said:

Hello, DE! Just want to ask. Are you planning to return to us the ability to block attacks manually? If not then just say it. So I do not waste time and finally moved to Destiny 2.
Thanks as always for your silence!

I doubt they will.  I keep an eye on this thread for false hope... but game wise, I have long since moved on.  If you are looking for good melee game, however, I have had a lot of fun with Monster Hunter World, The Surge, and am now on The Surge 2.

[Snoit]

6 hours ago, (PS4)azul86sapphire said:

I doubt they will.  I keep an eye on this thread for false hope... but game wise, I have long since moved on.  If you are looking for good melee game, however, I have had a lot of fun with Monster Hunter World, The Surge, and am now on The Surge 2.

Actually, I already have it. And Iceborne too! The combat system is really excellent. It's nice to see the evolution of the game from the very first part.

However, I like the warframe too. And I really liked the old combat system. It is a pity that the developers have a different view on this issue(

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Guys how many stances do we have?

How many animations in these stances?

How many animations of these stances that needs trimming and adjusting to adapt primal fury's smooth combo strings?

Multiply all that and you get hundreds of time

Not mention the other hours of looking at feedback

Yes melee sucks right now

And yes they did things out of the blue and thought it's going to work out

Yes melee 2.5 was a complete failure 

But the supposed phase 2 needs a lot of work to be done 

Give them a chance and give them time 

If phase 2 sucked or didn't fix what 2.5 broke..then you have the full right to leave this game and/or complain

[vaarnaaarne]

I can totally believe that the stance rework is going to take a lot of work. That's a lot of animations that are probably getting adjusted or even brand new ones put in, and I have no idea how melee combo inputs work under the hood.

But when it comes to the issues of RMB switch and autoblock, I have some doubts. Now I don't know how much work it'd take to partial rollback to the old system (basically just reinstate manual block), but I'd imagine it's notably less.

 

(rabble rabble rabble)

Edited October 9, 2019 by vaarnaaarne