Why are you getting so grindy again, DE?

[Tellakey]

After the great development of grind reduction that was Fortuna (setting aside ranks), Digital Extremes, you have regressed.

1. It started with Nightwave, a system that encourages players to reprioritize their spare time dedicated for whatever content they want to focus on ingame in favor of tedious weekly challenges. That would be okay, mind you, had the system not been time-gated.
2. Then we got Operation Buried Debts, where you made us grind the same mission over and over again for the rewards. Really, DE, a hundred points for Opticor Vandal? That's 14 times the same mission without a hitch, for an OPTICOR.
3. Finally, the introduction of Tatsu, a weapon that has nothing to do with Fortuna, but whose requirements include one of the Vallis' most hard-earned resource: Hesperon.
4. Let's not even talk about the drop rates of some of the new Ephemera as well as the Wolf's hammer parts.

In conclusion, you were going in the right direction, you took a step forward. Then something happened internally, I don't know what, and for some reason you've taken two steps back. Please snap out of this grind mentality and go back on the path to progress.

Kisses, hugs and all the best!

Edited March 9, 2019 by Tellakey

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Grindy? Has the game gone full price and then Free to Play again? Because the way I see it it's very relative, and the grind is there for monetization purposes for lack of a price tag. Is it a bit too much at times? Yeah, if it actually get players to drop the game then maybe toning it down is the right idea? But will toning it down make people burn trough content and then complain about a drought? Then maybe upping the grind a but is ok. What I mean is that it's very relative. But despite that DE has been making lots of stuff easier to get, namely essential stuff. They gotta keep the players in the game still, so it's not bad in these optional instance. It's not like everyone has to get every single item day 1/week 1, right?

[Xolgys]

giving ppl a reason to play is what grind is. if u get stuff too fast then ur reaching the point of asking what to do way too quickly -> drought. no thank you.

[Loza03]

1: People spent the latter half of last year complaining that there wasn't enough stuff to do. In fact, I believe a number of people pointed out there wasn't enough stuff to grind for. DE is just responding to what people asked for.

2: DE needs money to pay for things, and that means they need to encourage people buying plat. Game development ain't cheap, especially in regards to graphical improvements, which they're working on right now. 16th century alchemists were right about one thing - you can't get something out of nothing. 

[Tellakey]

Thank you for the replies, everyone. I have the same answer for all of you: 

Artificially prolonging the same mission is not content and is not better than finishing too quickly. It's actually worse because you're wasting players' time. All DE has done here is go from one extreme to the other. It is equivalent to solving war with extreme pacifism. You're just switching between two extremes.

A bad solution is not better than no solution at all.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Tellakey

[(XBOX)Shodian]

28 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

 

Artificially prolonging the same mission is not content and is not better than finishing too quickly. It's actually worse because you're wasting players' time

Not if the player is having fun while doing so.

[Tellakey]

Just now, (XB1)Shodian said:

Not if the player is having fun while doing so.

It's still not additional content if they're having fun. It's just players having fun with repetetive content.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Just now, Tellakey said:

It's still not additional content if they're having fun. It's just players having fun with repetetive content.

Still having fun though.

[GinKenshin]

1- most of the missions you can do together, as in do 2+ acts in the same mission, this farm or grind is pretty exaggerated tbh especially when it’s the 2nd week of 10 

 

2- that’s nothing new, even older events where grindy 

 

3- mining is a piece of cake, and you should have plenty of it by now, it’s been 4 months 

 

4- it’s cosmetic and it’s something for ‘vets’ to play towards, bragging right if you will, even if it’s rng 

 

29 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Thank you for the replies, everyone. I have the same answer for all of you: 

Artificially prolonging the same mission is not content and is not better than finishing every too quickly. It's actually worse because you're wasting players' time. All DE has done here is go from one extreme to the other. It is equivalent to solving war with extreme pacifism. You're just switching between two extremes.

Except that it is in this context. The game has content, Nightwave is used to incentivize us to play it. You can’t make content that is always rewarding and always replayable, it’s just not possible or they’re clueless on how to do it, that’s how farming games get around that, by low drop rates. People will play more, they have something to get, you can’t buy these things too so you have to play 

 

1 minute ago, Tellakey said:

It's still not additional content if they're having fun. It's just players having fun with repetetive content.

Why does that matter though? What kinda logic is this? 

[Tellakey]

21 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

1- most of the missions you can do together, as in do 2+ acts in the same mission, this farm or grind is pretty exaggerated tbh especially when it’s the 2nd week of 10 

 

2- that’s nothing new, even older events where grindy 

 

3- mining is a piece of cake, and you should have plenty of it by now, it’s been 4 months 

 

4- it’s cosmetic and it’s something for ‘vets’ to play towards, bragging right if you will, even if it’s rng 

2

1. I'm pretty sure that only a handful can be done together.

2. Most previous events weren't as grindy.

3. I've been mining for weeks. The amount of Hesperon required for so many items is absurd. Even after weeks of grinding this material, I find myself in a shortage of it for new items. This is the soft equivalent of Cetus Wisp, which after weeks of farming as well, I still haven't built all Cetus arcanes.

4. Still not a good excuse.

21 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Except that it is in this context. The game has content, Nightwave is used to incentivize us to play it. You can’t make content that is always rewarding and always replayable, it’s just not possible or they’re clueless on how to do it, that’s how farming games get around that, by low drop rates. People will play more, they have something to get, you can’t buy these things too so you have to play 

1

It's definitely possible to make a game that is rewarding most of the time without tedious tasks. Just take a look at other games that don't have this issue. DE is just, as you said, clueless, at least seemingly. The fact that you cannot buy some of these items makes it even more pointless to hide them behind a huge grind wall. 

21 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Why does that matter though? What kinda logic is this? 

 

This comment has context. It was a reply to another user who said that it IS content if the players are having fun with doing the same thing over and over. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Tellakey

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Xydeth said:

giving ppl a reason to play is what grind is. if u get stuff too fast then ur reaching the point of asking what to do way too quickly -> drought. no thank you.

Right, and playing the game because it's fun is just unthinkable. We all know that Warframe is a terrible game that nobody enjoys playing unless they're being paid to do so. No, I'm serious.

I'm also 150 feet tall and typing this post on a keyboard the size of a football stadium. No, I'm serious.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

giving ppl a reason to play is what grind is. if u get stuff too fast then ur reaching the point of asking what to do way too quickly -> drought. no thank you.

But things like them initially putting Hildryns BP at max Vox Solaris give a players a reason not to play. Its grind so excessive that it gets people thinking “is this even worth the effort?”

[Pro3Display]

23 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Right, and playing the game because it's fun is just unthinkable. We all know that Warframe is a terrible game that nobody enjoys playing unless they're being paid to do so. No, I'm serious.

I'm also 150 feet tall and typing this post on a keyboard the size of a football stadium. No, I'm serious.

51 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Still having fun though.

well maybe standing on one spot for 3 hours is fun for you, in my case defense missions cured my insomnia without even consulting if i ever had one

[Elyann]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

It's not like everyone has to get every single item day 1/week 1, right?

No but if I could have some more time to cultivate my other interests and then come back to the game while knowing I don't have to catch up with a gazillion new sindacates it would be nice.




Like...you know...I have a life too other than WF.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

giving ppl a reason to play is what grind is. if u get stuff too fast then ur reaching the point of asking what to do way too quickly -> drought. no thank you.

Just because you hide your book in a reincforced steel safe it wont change the fact that its only 10 pages long.

Warframe is grindy and thats not a problem in itself, the problem is that some grinds add up to a point where it becomes shameful for them to expect we are okay with it.

[gordianknot]

You have 14 days to get an Opticor Vandal. Do every day 1 mission for 15 minutes and you'll have in 10 days all items.

That's not grindy

[Teljaxx]

One of the biggest problems I have had with Warframe for a while now is how they usually attempt to extend new content. It usually goes something like this: A new mission type is added, usually with an event like the Kavor Defect. The event comes with special rewards to get people to try out the new mission. But, to get those rewards, you have to play the new mission so many times that you are completely tired of it long before the event is even over. This basically ends up making new content last for even less time, because, thanks to grinding so much during the event, you are already completely bored with the new content before it even becomes standard. Its like if you somehow wore out a pair of new shoes before you even left the store.

Heists are a good example of this, too. Story based missions that are fun to do once, maybe a couple times if you missed something. But having to farm them over and over to level up with Vox Solaris gets really old really fast. At least with normal bounties, they are randomized to keep them a bit more interesting. And there are plenty of other things to do to get standing for the factions, so you aren't just doing the same exact thing ad infinitum.

I had this problem with Plague Star, as well. I did not care at all when it came back, because I already had everything I wanted from it, and I was so tired of it that it wouldn't have been any fun, anyway. And I can already see the same thing happening with Buried Debts. It may have been fun to play that one single mission enough to get like 30 points. But 100? I haven't even gotten that far and I am already over it.

[Pro3Display]

22 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

One of the biggest problems I have had with Warframe for a while now is how they usually attempt to extend new content. It usually goes something like this: A new mission type is added, usually with an event like the Kavor Defect. The event comes with special rewards to get people to try out the new mission. But, to get those rewards, you have to play the new mission so many times that you are completely tired of it long before the event is even over. This basically ends up making new content last for even less time, because, thanks to grinding so much during the event, you are already completely bored with the new content before it even becomes standard. Its like if you somehow wore out a pair of new shoes before you even left the store.

Heists are a good example of this, too. Story based missions that are fun to do once, maybe a couple times if you missed something. But having to farm them over and over to level up with Vox Solaris gets really old really fast. At least with normal bounties, they are randomized to keep them a bit more interesting. And there are plenty of other things to do to get standing for the factions, so you aren't just doing the same exact thing ad infinitum.

I had this problem with Plague Star, as well. I did not care at all when it came back, because I already had everything I wanted from it, and I was so tired of it that it wouldn't have been any fun, anyway. And I can already see the same thing happening with Buried Debts. It may have been fun to play that one single mission enough to get like 30 points. But 100? I haven't even gotten that far and I am already over it.

so much this

[Unibot]

34 минуты назад, Teljaxx сказал:

One of the biggest problems I have had with Warframe for a while now is how they usually attempt to extend new content. It usually goes something like this: A new mission type is added, usually with an event like the Kavor Defect. The event comes with special rewards to get people to try out the new mission. But, to get those rewards, you have to play the new mission so many times that you are completely tired of it long before the event is even over. This basically ends up making new content last for even less time, because, thanks to grinding so much during the event, you are already completely bored with the new content before it even becomes standard. Its like if you somehow wore out a pair of new shoes before you even left the store.

Heists are a good example of this, too. Story based missions that are fun to do once, maybe a couple times if you missed something. But having to farm them over and over to level up with Vox Solaris gets really old really fast. At least with normal bounties, they are randomized to keep them a bit more interesting. And there are plenty of other things to do to get standing for the factions, so you aren't just doing the same exact thing ad infinitum.

I had this problem with Plague Star, as well. I did not care at all when it came back, because I already had everything I wanted from it, and I was so tired of it that it wouldn't have been any fun, anyway. And I can already see the same thing happening with Buried Debts. It may have been fun to play that one single mission enough to get like 30 points. But 100? I haven't even gotten that far and I am already over it.

^ this

[Lythandra]

Unfortunately everything in Warframe is about grinding. The new event is okish but still quite grindy and not solo friendly for a new player. After trying it I'm gonna have to skip it since there is no scaling for newer vs older players. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Lythandra

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

One of the biggest problems I have had with Warframe for a while now is how they usually attempt to extend new content. It usually goes something like this: A new mission type is added, usually with an event like the Kavor Defect. The event comes with special rewards to get people to try out the new mission. But, to get those rewards, you have to play the new mission so many times that you are completely tired of it long before the event is even over. This basically ends up making new content last for even less time, because, thanks to grinding so much during the event, you are already completely bored with the new content before it even becomes standard. Its like if you somehow wore out a pair of new shoes before you even left the store.

Heists are a good example of this, too. Story based missions that are fun to do once, maybe a couple times if you missed something. But having to farm them over and over to level up with Vox Solaris gets really old really fast. At least with normal bounties, they are randomized to keep them a bit more interesting. And there are plenty of other things to do to get standing for the factions, so you aren't just doing the same exact thing ad infinitum.

I had this problem with Plague Star, as well. I did not care at all when it came back, because I already had everything I wanted from it, and I was so tired of it that it wouldn't have been any fun, anyway. And I can already see the same thing happening with Buried Debts. It may have been fun to play that one single mission enough to get like 30 points. But 100? I haven't even gotten that far and I am already over it.

Here, take another +1.

Seriously, I utterly hated the defection event. After doing the exact same thing for 2-3 hours straight to have any chance of getting the reward, I never EVER want to see that mission again. Whenever it comes up in a sortie, I just skip it. I am not going back there again.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

4 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

Artificially prolonging the same mission

isn't that can be said about all looter games?

[Steel_Rook]

5 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

One of the biggest problems I have had with Warframe for a while now is how they usually attempt to extend new content. It usually goes something like this: A new mission type is added, usually with an event like the Kavor Defect. The event comes with special rewards to get people to try out the new mission. But, to get those rewards, you have to play the new mission so many times that you are completely tired of it long before the event is even over. This basically ends up making new content last for even less time, because, thanks to grinding so much during the event, you are already completely bored with the new content before it even becomes standard. Its like if you somehow wore out a pair of new shoes before you even left the store.

Yup. Ever since Fortuna, I've suspected that the people at DE have a one-track mind. Whatever the new bit of content is, ALL of the new rewards are going to be locked behind it. What's new right now... Fortuna? K, everything will require Fortuna progression. What's that? The newest thing is Fortuna Heists? OK, everything will require heists now. Don't like Fortuna? K, come back in, like, a year when the next big thing launches.

I'm facetious, obviously, but the underlying problem is real. By massively over-rewarding such a tiny portion of the game - and a non-randomised, limited-replayability portion at that - the game artificially feels like it has a lot less content to offer. For all the S#&$ I gave it, at least Nightwave was doable via a broad range of content from across the entire spectrum, but here we are back to "grind Fortuna all over again." The longer I play this game, the more convinced I am that it's single greatest limitation is its content bottlenecks. The moment you decide you want A specific thing, the game's scope instantly narrows to a single point as you grind through a single piece of content until you're sick to the back teeth of it, even though you COULD have been doing so many different things.

And the worst part of it is that that then stays this way as development moves onto something else. If would be one thing if content were temporarily gated behind the new shiny, but was later re-integrated into the game in a more natural way. In reality, the deliberately heavy grind designed to funnel people through new content is left as-is for all times, meaning that players coming into the game three years later are STILL being pressured into playing content that might by that point be old, outdated and potentially even broken. That's why we have stuff like Rathuum or the Ambulas, or Mutalist Alad V requiring separate coordinates. It's why Mesa Prime is frankly easier to get than Mesa. The list goes on and on. We could be doing so many things, yet here we are sealing four fissures in Fortuna over and over again, when we've been grinding Fortuna for so long that we don't even need the map any more.

As with a lot of grind, it's not the AMOUNT that bothers people, but the ACTIVITY a lot of the time. If you didn't like Fortuna at release like I didn't, the intervening times would have been pretty grim.

[Drasiel]

Frankly it just sounds like you don't want to play the game right now. Weekly night waves are the only ones that disrupt normal activities and you have literally all week to do them in. Steve also told us on devstream that you should only need to complete something like 60% of all night wave tasks. 

As far as the event goes this is one of the least grind ones I've seen. 15 runs is nothing compared to the actual hundreds that were required for previous events. 

As for hesperon, apparently I am in the minority with hundreds of the stuff. I guess mining to raise my Fortuna standing was better than doing bounties. 

[Rambit23Z]

10 hours ago, Tellakey said:

That's 14 times the same mission without a hitch, for an OPTICOR.

*Laughs in Gradivus Dilemma*

Edited March 9, 2019 by Rambit23Z