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Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

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3rd week, all challenges are doable, the only one that seems restrictive is the 5 sorties, make it 3 in the future as to not force people to do missions they may not be comfortable with, I know I'll be mostly useless if/when spy shows up...

 

Other then that, the "exterminate level 35+ in stealth" I accidentally got it when doing the exterminate part of Sunday's Sortie, no I have no idea how that works either, we went full frontal assault not even an attempt at stealth was made, not that I'm complaining.

 

Also I got a couple "drift" exilus mods I didn't even know existed.

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Nightwave is taking away the feeling of choice and self determination that is so core to the Warframe experience for me. For example, I don't want to spend time in doing OV right now, I'm having fun with the game elsewhere.  That disconnect between me having fun with doing what I find fun right now and what Nightwave wants me to do this week is now large enough that I'm gonna stop it till the next season brings changes to the format.

These tasks have the feeling of an attempt to have players check out the variety in the game and in some cases show players aspects they may have missed (like elemental damage types).  The time limit and forced linear progression through the reward tiers combine to make them into chores rather than rewarding to play for me. 

The game is generally good at letting you enjoy what you find fun with ways to work around the parts that you find unsatisfying.  I don't like grinding standing with the daily caps, so I decided early on to trade for syndicate gear. That has worked well and is an example of the flexibility in the core design.  Trade lets you skip unfun grinds. 

Alerts let you pick and choose what you wanted. I did mods, weapons, vauban initially but later picked up helmets when I got into the game more. It was neat that I could ignore the ones I wasnt interested in at any time. The random times could have been addressed by making them last a day and similar tweaks.

The linear nature of the reward tiers is unappealing - I don't want the Saturn 6 stickers right now for eg but I have to grind through them - no choice.  I need Nitain for Revenant but I made the mistake of buying a Reactor for Mesa Prime, now I get to wait for a few weeks for Revenant - a bad choice.

One takeaway for me is to not spend Wolf creds on anything but Nitain and buy potatoes from the market, Nitain is now too expensive to risk not having at where I am I in the game. 

Please consider removing the linear reward tiers and standing grind and giving direct rewards - 5 sorties for 15 Nitain for eg. 

I see similar posts about choice so I hope you take that aspect of the criticism on board. 

I also see people pushing back on the criticism because they like 60 minute Kuva Survivals. That's a very valid point, there needs to be more end game things to do.  But why that was conflated with the alerts replacement is unclear - the problem bring solved was inaccessibility not challenge. 

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41 minutes ago, simplygnome said:

Thats actually a FANTASTIC IDEA.

I would 100% be okay with nightwave if it was in 10 week sets, but I could get rep on my own time, then once NW Season 2 comes out, Id just have to finish set 1 and then Id prestige to set 2, and that could stack every 10 weeks.

I still dont think its a worthy replacement for alerts, but that would completely remove my opposition to it.  Then again, DE wouldnt beable to resue the same rewards recycled for multiple events.

I actually quite like the event specific stuff being locked to the event. So the sigils, glyphs, wolf armour, syandana etc all event locked so that when season 2 starts they become unavailable, a reward for participation. But things like the umbra forma... slots etc, that's what I don't like.

Maybe if all the rewards were either event specific/cred then all non-event stuff could be added to the wolf cred part.  They could limit the purchases to one per customer, that way, a filthy semi-casual, like myself, could choose to save the cred for a specific item, like the unbra forma, but someone that takes part in everything would easily earn enough cred to buy 1 of each (one per customer) item and some left over for the other cred stuff.

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9 minutes ago, (NSW)v1ld said:

Nightwave is taking away the feeling of choice and self determination that is so core to the Warframe experience for me. For example, I don't want to spend time in doing OV right now, I'm having fun with the game elsewhere.  That disconnect between me having fun with doing what I find fun right now and what Nightwave wants me to do this week is now large enough that I'm gonna stop it till the next season brings changes to the format.

[...snip...]

The game is generally good at letting you enjoy what you find fun with ways to work around the parts that you find unsatisfying. 

Bold for and cut for emphasis, this and all of this.

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16 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

grind unnecessarily? so getting mods form challenge rooms that take a flew secs to find, and can be done in a capture mission and u cna equip all 4, and u can then srell them ods for plat or heaven forbid use them?

what is this complaint? and ur too busying being on hear complaining instead of doing them?

tell me good sir... do u perhaps spend ur entire time in hydron because u want to stat pad ur mastery by being carried? do u only do capture fissures? do u buy all ur frames instead of farming? what kind of person are u?

No offense, man, but what are you talking about?  EVERYONE approaches this game from different angles.  That was/is the beauty of playing Warframe in the first place.  It's why I started playing.  I do not think everyone should have to do those things if they don't want to.  The beautiful thing about old Alerts is that they were things you could do quickly IF you wanted to do them.  I saw a Mesa helmet Alert and I want to get that blueprint, so I do the alert real quick and I'm done.  No grinding involved.  No currency needed.  No standing required.  Just do it and that's it.  This new system doesn't come close to that level of simplicity.

It doesn't matter how they play the game.  This new system should provide stuff for a lot of different players to interact with the game in a way they're comfortable with.  If they want to do 60 minute survivals, that's great.  If they want to kill 2000 enemies, that's fine, too.  This Nightwave system should encourage folks to go about their normal game life and still be able to participate and not force folks into doing things they're not interested in to make progress.  Alerts were nonintrusive and that's kind of how I feel like Nightwave should be.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that those who are into the crazy challenge stuff lose that ability to do so, BUT the system should be flexible for those who don't.  Shaming folks who don't want or like to do that stuff is just not cool.

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Posted (edited)

Weekly act that needs literally 5 days to complete? and it's elite act that we have to almost always complete?

eh, nice.

Edited by Test-995
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For future challenges please replace "Complete X Sorties" with something like "Complete 1 Sortie with X void keys equipped".

It's less time consuming, more challenging and more interesting then just doing sorties over and over.

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Night wave challenges are way too long and require far too much time to complete.

There is far too much to do and this requires far too much time from people who have real lives, family, and work to manage during a week as well.

DE should be more respectful of our time, and reduce the limited time (do it now or never) pressure presented in this game.  We should be free to play at our personal pace, without losing out.

I have been playing since before the founders program and I am a founder myself.  I can tell you the number one reason I have seen long time committed players leave this game, is that they simply are drowning in grind and time limited commitments that lead to a horrible play experience.

Night wave is just more pressure and another way for players to become disheartened, because they can't keep up with the overwhelming unhealthy time requirements.

If this keeps up I will also likely burn out and quit the game.  I already am required to spend unhealthy lengths of time playing just to keep up with the time pressure present.

I also find that night wave forces me to play missions and spend my time doing things I don't want to, just to get a prize, and the overall result is misery. Its not fun.  Its banging myself in the head with a hammer to get a prize at the end.  This is poor game design.  

I don't want to be wasting my time unhappily mining useless gems in a state of suffering boredom, or wasting a flippin hour of my day in some survival run for no good reason, just to get some superfluous prize that's offered for a limited time.

I am considering seriously just walking away from WARFRAME at this point.  The time asked of players is unhealthy.

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Posted (edited)

My returns:

I play mostly solo but for me depending on the mission, its difficulty and / or time to do it, I also play in a group (random). Compared to alerts, this system is less flexible because the choices have rather "directed" (because of the duration of the series), and more flexible for the rewards (shop) that are there not a few hours but a week.

  • Simply replaced "with a friend or member of your clan" with "with / in a group". The coop aspect remains present taking into account different combinations (friend, clan, random, invitation) without being limiting. It potentially allows more players to attempt or be tempted to do the act (s);
  • Add 1 or 2 daily acts;
  • Reduce the duration of survivals (defenses, ...) from 60 min to 30 min perhaps;
  • Reduce the number of exits to be made from 5 to 3. This may encourage players who do not (or have little play time) to test / make them without being so restrictive.
  • Increase the reputation given by capturing a prisoner from 50 to 100 and / or give a bonus of 100 for capturing the 3 prisoners. Ditto for the Wolf (not yet seen).


If I understand everything that has been said and written, it must at least take 3 levels per week (30000 reputation) so feasible. For Wolf creds, it's 300 creds in total when level 30 is reached with the possibility to have more after. But for those who have little time or who will not reach this level, would it not be possible to allow them to obtain otherwise creds, for example, by giving 15/20 creds to have completed half of the acts of the week.

Edited by (PS4)Imhokh

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So, like 2 sorties as a weekly would be okay, but 5? That's absurd.

That said i still feel the format needs heavily changed. I'd say remove the dailies and bring back the old alerts popping up every couple hours for like 6 hours, and instead of random rewards have them give a bit of standing and one wolf cred. Then split the weekly rotation into two 7 day rotations that that are offset for Monday and Friday. That way the challenges stay in but only on the weekly rotations, and some measure of the freedom of choice of what you want to do remains.

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Posted (edited)

I am appalled that even during the easiest week of Nightwave people are still finding things to complain about.

 

It's not DE's responsibility to work around your schedules. If you can't log on 5 times a week to spend ~30-45 minutes doing a Sortie, that's on you. After all, it's an Elite Weekly for a reason.

Edited by Jackal_Off
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32 minutes ago, Jackal_Off said:

I am appalled that even during the easiest week of Nightwave people are still finding things to complain about.

 

It's not DE's responsibility to work around your schedules. If you can't log on 5 times a week to spend ~30-45 minutes doing a Sortie, that's on you. After all, it's an Elite Weekly for a reason.


"I can do this, so I'm going to invalidate others who can't."

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16 minutes ago, Enialyx said:


"I can do this, so I'm going to invalidate others who can't."

Elite Weekly.

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2 minutes ago, Jackal_Off said:

Elite Weekly.

More like Elite Weeklong, amirite?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jackal_Off said:

I am appalled that even during the easiest week of Nightwave people are still finding things to complain about.

 

It's not DE's responsibility to work around your schedules. If you can't log on 5 times a week to spend ~30-45 minutes doing a Sortie, that's on you. After all, it's an Elite Weekly for a reason.

Yeah, taking a game whos main appeal was a grindfest that you could do on your own time, and play how you want to play, then making it have weekly timers with specific content to complete should be understandably offputting.

Because you dont care that your time is dictated, doesnt mean others want their limited play time chosen for them by weekly, nonchallenging content.

Edited by simplygnome
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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, simplygnome said:

Yeah, taking a game whos main appeal was a grindfest that you could do on your own time, and play how you want to play, then making it have weekly timers with specific content to complete should be understandably offputting.

Because you dont care that your time is dictated, doesnt mean others want their limited play time chosen for them by weekly, nonchallenging content.

Then stop letting the game dictate how you use your free time. If you don't want to do Nightwave, then don't do it. There are plenty other activities you can do in Warframe, but if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort into Nightwave, you're not meant to reach the higher ranks. The higher ranks are intended for players who are dedicated and put effort into the campaign.

Edited by Jackal_Off
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26 minutes ago, Jackal_Off said:

I can't wait until Nightwave Season 3 when our weekly challenges are just "log into the game".

Some people have lives, responsibilities, families and professions. Spending hours each day (at minimum half an hour for the sorties only) isn't "elite" and doesn't require skill, regardless of the challenge or task. Yes, if you're skilled or geared well it can take less time. That said, NONE of the nightwave challenges are hard for MR20+ unless you're doing something wrong, but they ARE time sinks. Time sinks are fine for a F2P game but they are not "elite". I have a friend with twice the logged hours in warframe because he leaves the game running when he goes to sleep. That's not elite either, but at least he gets something productive out of it, and based on the challenges thus-far, he probably has more fun. 

The problems with nightwave is they aren't ACTUALLY helping new players because they are challenging for new players to accomplish and very time consuming. Imagine yourself a new player, a parent working full time and you want something to play for those 30 minutes a couple nights during the week and maybe 3-4 hours on the weekend. You see this and know there's no way to get those points - you need rep standing you don't have for some, don't have the time for others and can't do still more because you're under MR10 and the stuff you have is barely able to keep you up for ten minutes on gabii. These roll every week and you'll lose everything after the season ends, so chances are good you'll maybe, if you're lucky get maybe a rank or two every few weeks, not every day. This system is replacing the old system that was oriented towards new players. The old system was luck-of-the-draw but even with your garbage weapons and frame you could still do it, or be carried at least if something you needed was up when you had time to login.

 

Having HOURS to play EVERY DAY doesn't denote skill (which "elite" is a gradient of) - it just means you have time. 

I'm high MR, so the only thing even mildly attractive is the stuff tacked at the 20+ standing range. I also have a family, have real life obligations and have medical problems on top of it. I used to have a lot more time (and interest) for Warframe and could play for hours and hours. Now my time is more limited and Nightwave and the new operation hint at a new approach to future content, one that discourages all but the hardcore players with dozens of hours each week to play. It's discouraging. It's failing to meet the description that DE has presented it as, and it's a bad implementation of what could be a great system. 

 

EVERY grind game is about grinding. But every game that "locks you into their schedule" makes it hard to forget the staggering amount of hours it takes to accomplish anything. By doing so we're reminded it's not having fun playing a game, but slogging chores like our parents used to give us when we were children.

 

So sorry friend, I know you have plenty of time and feel pretty "elite" having it, but it's not denoting any kind of skill on your part, just that you got the hours to do them. Maybe DE could re-work the term from "elite" to "Most time Intensive" and that would alleviate some of the confusion? 

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8 minutes ago, Jackal_Off said:

Then stop letting the game dictate how you use your free time. If you don't want to do Nightwave, then don't do it. There are plenty other activities you can do in Warframe, but if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort into Nightwave, you're not meant to reach the higher ranks. The higher ranks are intended for players who are dedicated and put effort into the campaign.

That my friend was rather rude. People can reach the higher MR ranks quickly or slowly but they're always there to be reached and whether it takes four years or four weeks doesn't matter. Saying people aren't "meant to reach the higher ranks" Because they're taking their time is just a put-down. I could also point out that I've seen a LOT of MR20+ players who are incredibly bad at warframe, but they've been having fun so good for them. I've also seen some incredibly stellar MR<10's and some hopped those ranks quickly and some didn't. RANK isn't an indication of skill any more than free time.

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15 minutes ago, Jackal_Off said:

Then stop letting the game dictate how you use your free time. If you don't want to do Nightwave, then don't do it. There are plenty other activities you can do in Warframe, but if you aren't willing to put in the time and effort into Nightwave, you're not meant to reach the higher ranks. The higher ranks are intended for players who are dedicated and put effort into the campaign.

I remember this same argument in the early days of WoW when folks didn't want to raid in order to get the most out of the game.

If you drive away folks who aren't into the "challenge", then that's not helping the game at all.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of the people who play this game aren't even close to the hardcore player.  It survives by being accessible to a wide variety of players.  With the removal of Alerts, it means that even players who have no interest in this Nightwave system have to engage because it's the only way to get Nitain.  There's no other way.  Players will have to engage even at the base level.

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1 hour ago, Jackal_Off said:

I can't wait until Nightwave Season 3 when our weekly challenges are just "log into the game".

This jack guy is the difference between people who have lives and people who don't. Don't crap on poeple who have lives and want to enjoy Warframe. Get off the forums and go do your life consuming nightwaves and feel good about what you did with your life, you only have a limited time with it.

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Yeah, I think the most important issue is daily/weekly fatigue. Stop time boxing fun, it's no fun.

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I can totally get behind the cumulative thing, but on the other hand, I kinda like working for things sometimes. Not everything has to be thrown at you... Eventually give a bonus for completing  1hr sourvivals in one go to compensate those that want the hard way?

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)The_WR3CK said:

This jack guy is the difference between people who have lives and people who don't. Don't crap on poeple who have lives and want to enjoy Warframe. Get off the forums and go do your life consuming nightwaves and feel good about what you did with your life, you only have a limited time with it.

Look, I get you, but there has to be some sense of accomplishment offered to those who want more challenge that takes more time... We all have to be welcome here.

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Given that you only get wolf creds every few tiers, it's become harder for casual players to get helmets/nitian. If there were other ways to get creds, this could be avoided. In addition, 50 Nightwave standing per escapee capture feels overly small when even just basic daily challenges give 1k.

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I really enjoy that some of the challenges get me doing activities I normally wouldn’t care about. Like sanctuary onslaught. I think it would be cool if some of the items became purchasable after the event, that way it adds to warframes revenue and market offerings, while offering a cool and free alternative for players who can afford to sink enough time to get the items legit. 🙂

 
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