FIX THE TRIDOLON META! Make other frames viable

[Chaemyerelis]

7 hours ago, Volrind said:

With all due respect but you are quite naive to believe that meta would disappear if eidolons were reworked.

Meta would CHANGE, not disappear. There would still be a combination of 4 frames that would be more efficient than others and they would be used most often.

Meta never disappears, it only ever changes. Grasp it.

My friend uses Vazarin Harrow with great success and doesn't lose a single lure in tridolons, making Trinity obsolete in our runs and leaving us with free warframe slot open.

That's a cop out excuse, while there is always a meta of sorts it can be made to encompass more frames than it does now (which is extremely limited). 

I'd also add that some people don't want it changed because it ruins their platinum gravy train from selling arcanes. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Chaemyerelis

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, Sir_Carl said:

I don't know what your definition of efficient is but what you said is pretty much just a good tactic. Compare it to bringing 4 limbos. By every now and then I assume you mean every 10 seconds or so, depending on enemy spawn. With 4 duration Limbos, you can cast skills and pretty much idle to the duration of your stasis, then rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying Ivara is bad for interceptions, I'm just saying that there are frames that can be used better because their skills pretty much fits the objective (e.g. Khora, Limbo, I would say Frost but that would probably take roughly the same amount of effort as using Ivara, cast globe then 4, rinse and repeat)

I need to update you on something. Currently Ivara going solo is the most efficient (and probably the fastest) way to do interceptions missions to date.  All you need is Prowl and Noise arrow.  One or two Noise Arrows while constantly in Prowl is all you need to keep the enemies lockd down.  Then the time to take the objectives is shortens by half the usual time (most likely due to solo mode).  You don't have to kill any enemies until the download is finished to proceed to the next wave.  Which is in itself even easier to do since all the enemies are already grouped together from Noise Arrow.  

😄 

[S.Dust]

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

How ?

In a group or Solo ?

The joke was the fact that it doesnt matter what you use for exploiter.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

Your choice to ignore viable and reasonable solutions.  

RNG isn't Viable for everyone.

[(PSN)SleepyReaper1012]

On 2019-04-21 at 7:40 AM, Aldain said:

The big issue with metagaming is it often reduces something that was supposed to be diverse and fun into a formula and a grind.

Why bother using literally any weapon but the top single target damage weapon for Eidolons? Why bother using anything but Inaros and a Lenz for Arbitrations? Why bother even making any weapons in between since everything but X loadout is useless other than MR fodder?

The point where a meta trivializes the existence of 90% of all other content, not just in endgame areas, but in many others as well, reduces the actual value of everything between starter weapons and endgame weapons.

If MR rank based weapons and frame limits weren't a thing there would be no reason to make almost 90% of all tools the game offers because of how dramatic the power gap is between the best and the rest.

That is where the meta mentality starts to cause problems, and it also limits game design because if the developers DON'T keep the most effective tactics in mind people will just faceroll through the content and then cry there's nothing to do, which is how we get something like the Wolf, where most players can't even scratch him, but the meta crowd delete him in seconds because they can delete everything in seconds.

I just face tank the wolf with my inaros and gram prime. He dies, my team lives, we all leave happy. Wolf can't scratch me.

[Aldain]

Just now, (PS4)SleepyReaper1012 said:

I just face tank the wolf with my inaros and gram prime. He dies, my team lives, we all leave happy. Wolf can't scratch me.

...What does that have to do with anything that was in my post?

[Knight_Ex]

On 2019-04-21 at 10:47 AM, (PS4)ImTheOx said:

Please DE for the love of god, fix the eidolons so other frames can also be viable! 

 

i can't belive all the times the host left becouse i joined a tridolon with my LIMBO! 

Even the squad was 1 volt and 2 Rhinos, my Limbo is a Versatile Healer/Protector/Dmg Dealer with maxed Madurai, a brutal vectis with god riven, and my amesha can pritty much back up for any trinity. 

my record with a good squad 1chroma 1volt 1Rhino and my Limbo was 11min for a whole Tridolon. 

 

Yet still almost every time the host leaves on random tridolons when they see my limbo. 

 

So my suggestion is to Allow other frames to be viable against Eidolons. 

Mag's MAGNETISE should work on Eidolons weak points, allowing for increase DMG and bullet attraction. 

Mesa's PACE MAKER should be able to target Eidolons weak parts. 

Nova's MULECULAR PRIME should slow down Eidolons Attacks for a shorter time and also the anoying Vomvalists. 

Inaros SCARAB SWARM should stop the vomvalists and let them become a healing pillon for players and the Eidolon LURES. 

Hildryn Shield pillage should drain Eidolons shields just like a Tenno. 

Equinoxs REST should put the EIDOLON to sleep for half a second so you can actualy block the Eidolom from casting a Storm or a shockwave.  Her MAIM should DMG and kill vomvalists. 

Hydroids Corrosive Barrage should lower the Eidolons total armor. 

 

i guess what im trying to say its make so that every warframes power is usefull against the Eidolons becouse right now if you dont have Trinity, Chroma, Volt and Harrow you are kicked from almost every single Tridolon game!

 

 

Here some helpful facts and suggestions to help your experience:

- Don't play on public

- your more than welcome to take limbo in solo

- no one cares about the meta cause everyone thats at the point of Tri-dolon hunts have at least one of the optimal frames

- DE has better things to work on right now

Meta's are not created by DE, the meta is created by the players who use the tools that they are given, its because some frames are better than others doesn't mean the others can't be used, but don't expect to get invited to 3x3 hunts, so deal with it. Seriously its like no one did the raids prior to them being dropped, even those had certain frames you'd want to take.

Something else worth noting you do NOT have to farm Eidolons, if the meta is too hard for you to grasp there is no reason to farm them other than arcanes, which are not a requirement to progress through the game, thats likely how DE see's it, would be a different story if a Tri hunt was required to get to the next section of content, but you only need the Terry fight to progress.

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Knight_Ex

[ninjacat2015]

Its not just Eidolons, Fortuna open world and orb fights, and Arbitration also has copious instances of power immunity. Trends indicate future of Warframe will be one where powers are only for farming trash mobs in low level chart missions. High level content will involve nothing but tanking and DPS.

Edited April 22, 2019 by ninjacat2015

[(XBOX)styyxo]

It's been not pleasant to play tricap with people, even in a formed squad. I usually play as volt and they keep asking me to spam the shields. Dude, i'm saving the energy until the limbs. I'm not going to cast them so they'd disappear right when a limb is vulnerable. Or the sightline through the shield's gone bc he moves. Am i missing something??? Do other volts spam the shields?? Do i have to state my play style in the recruiting chat too?? 

When people are too reliant on specific frames, they are going to demand it and rude people piss me off. When i play exp orb, i enjoy it more because i'm not being told to spam sht. 

So, yes, i want different frames to be viable. 

[Llamatronian]

On 2019-04-22 at 2:30 AM, BloodKitten said:

exploiter orb was a perfect example on how to make all frames viable, you have to play smart and you cant rush it to an unreasonable amount of time, tridolon would need a damage cap so other frames will be as usefull, so for example, you wont be able to one shot the weakspots due to damage cap, but every frame with the same weapon build can use simular amount of shots, it would make chroma less mendatory and allow more diverse frame selection, basicly, disallow buff from warframe to apply to eidolon and maintain the damage it recive from only the weapon and its mods.

Exploiter is basically a giant cut-scene though. Phase 1 the only thing that matters is throwing accurately, an entirely new mechanic not affected in any way by your build, and it's padded out with forced dialog sections to make it take too long either way. Phase 2 is even worse: nothing you do matters much at all, or if it does there's no feedback to show that you're making any difference. There's nothing much to optimise or improve on, and it has no failure condition and therefore no tension once you see behind the curtain.

If a fight can be done with any Warframe, that means it's not using the Warframe's abilities much at all. What's the point of collecting, levelling, practising, and mastering Warframes if the next boss doesn't use any of what you've collected or learned? IMO the best video game bosses are a test of what the game has been teaching you up to that point. The next tier at least lets you use the powers, abilities, and items you've collected, but might pose a less related skill test. Exploiter is neither of those things.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Llamatronian

[Toppien]

i just go with zephyr and i let me get carried by the one shot rubico riven guy XD

[Llamatronian]

2 hours ago, (XB1)styyxo said:

It's been not pleasant to play tricap with people, even in a formed squad. I usually play as volt and they keep asking me to spam the shields. Dude, i'm saving the energy until the limbs. I'm not going to cast them so they'd disappear right when a limb is vulnerable. Or the sightline through the shield's gone bc he moves. Am i missing something??? Do other volts spam the shields?? Do i have to state my play style in the recruiting chat too?? 

When people are too reliant on specific frames, they are going to demand it and rude people piss me off. When i play exp orb, i enjoy it more because i'm not being told to spam sht. 

So, yes, i want different frames to be viable. 

Volt shields boost operator amp crit damage. That's is the only reason for Volt to be part of the meta, as a maxed out Chroma doesn't really need the Volt shields to kill limbs efficiently. You do only need one shield for operators but it can be helpful to spread a few out so people can move around to avoid incoming damage.

Also, your shields should last for longer than one phase of the boss at least. Mod for duration and efficiency because nothing else matters.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Llamatronian

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, (XB1)styyxo said:

It's been not pleasant to play tricap with people, even in a formed squad. I usually play as volt and they keep asking me to spam the shields. Dude, i'm saving the energy until the limbs. I'm not going to cast them so they'd disappear right when a limb is vulnerable. Or the sightline through the shield's gone bc he moves. Am i missing something??? Do other volts spam the shields?? Do i have to state my play style in the recruiting chat too?? 

When people are too reliant on specific frames, they are going to demand it and rude people piss me off. When i play exp orb, i enjoy it more because i'm not being told to spam sht. 

So, yes, i want different frames to be viable. 

Um are you casting shields so chroma can shoot each limb? Because that's not needed. You should be casting shields after each limb break for the amps to fire through and then stacking 6 shields during the final healing phase for chroma's kill shot. Volt build is just max efficiency and some duration, no power strength required. Also during the initial teralyst attack you should be spamming shields when it's walking around and helping them shoot it with amps. 

The only other shield spam they could be referring to is how some groups put up a volt shield by the riverside for each of the 4 spawn locations of gantulyst and hydrolyst but you don't really have to worry about this unless the group is asking for it specifically. By the way, people generally just use energy pads in hunts so they don't have to worry about saving energy.

[MisterHooks]

You can take any frames to a Tridolon and successfully kill the boss in a single night cycle.

The current meta doesn't require adjusting, because any buffs or nerfs will just make a new meta, which someone else will cry to buff/nerf, and the cycle repeats. If we ever get to a point where the meta the frames don't matter, then a little bit of the magic is gone.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, (XB1)styyxo said:

It's been not pleasant to play tricap with people, even in a formed squad. I usually play as volt and they keep asking me to spam the shields. Dude, i'm saving the energy until the limbs. I'm not going to cast them so they'd disappear right when a limb is vulnerable. Or the sightline through the shield's gone bc he moves. Am i missing something??? Do other volts spam the shields?? Do i have to state my play style in the recruiting chat too?? 

I'l place Exactly two Shields whenever the Eidolon stops moving... if I or they fail to one shot the shields then theres no point In me placing more especially if the Ass Hole whos telling me to spam Shields is using Zenurik and Use his primary fire on the Eidolon instead of the Alt Fire....

 

[zoffmode]

3 hours ago, (XB1)styyxo said:

It's been not pleasant to play tricap with people, even in a formed squad. I usually play as volt and they keep asking me to spam the shields. Dude, i'm saving the energy until the limbs. I'm not going to cast them so they'd disappear right when a limb is vulnerable. Or the sightline through the shield's gone bc he moves. Am i missing something??? Do other volts spam the shields?? Do i have to state my play style in the recruiting chat too?? 

When people are too reliant on specific frames, they are going to demand it and rude people piss me off. When i play exp orb, i enjoy it more because i'm not being told to spam sht. 

So, yes, i want different frames to be viable. 

Your post should definitely have /sarcasm tag at the end. 😂

[Somebodyboy]

This thread taught me quite a bit about tridolons and its meta. Thank you.

My two cents, dont expect much from public groups, as many have said before me, new and old players alike will tend towards the meta as it is whats "best" for tridolon hunting. 

If you are still keen on taking Limbo to tridolons, know that harrow or trinity can provide somewhat more utility compared to limbo and that you will have to educate on how Limbo is decent to your pub groups, else they will think either you're a troll/inexperienced/newbie thanks to the stigma around Limbo.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

DE doesn't create meta.  Players make it.  It's not something DE can just "adjust", and quite honestly things are fine as is. You don't need to roll with the meta, you just need to kill the guy.  

Also, NO Warframe's abilities affect the Eidolons, so there's no need to "make more frames' abilities affect the Eidolon".   Frames that are used in the meta are used because of how their powers affect THEMSELVES and EACH OTHER.  

Anyways, that's all been stated enough prior to my comment, so... just figured I'd hammer that home.   

On to WHY the Eidolons, an arguably endgame-tier boss, is something encounterable by new players?  I believe DE WANTED New players to run into them and be overwhelmed, on purpose!  Not so they'd be scared away from the game or frustrated, but so they'd have something to shoot for.

Let's be honest...for the most part, early levels are a breeze.  Some are difficult until you grasp the mechanics, but once you get 'em down, and ESPECIALLY if you've got a clan helping, you just need to learn CC and how to mod.   After all that, though, you start to feel like "Hm, too easy..no challenge".  Me?  I enjoyed it regardless, but I've seen those posts on these forums plenty of times.

But now, that player walks out onto the Plains...thinking "Oi! Just some more Grineer?  No biggie".   Then night falls and they're met with these unstoppable behemoths!  It's terrifying and really helps the player understand how far they have to go.  It lets them know there are greater heights to strive for, beyond just doing red crits on hydron 😛

They see other Tenno in pub squads "one-shotting limbs" and think "Oh man, I need to improve!  I can't wait to get there!"  

I run a mid-sized clan of around 80 players, and I'm ALWAYS recruiting newbies.  I see how excited they get.  That is why DE made that a thing.  

THOSE are the players who spend on plat, who log in every day to improve and farm..who keep the game alive!  Not the tired ol' "vets" (hate that term) who complain about everything DE does.

Eidolons are a goal post.  That's all.  

(This is largely in response to all the posts I see about "DE needs to gate this off!" blahblahblah)

[Court_Joker]

I'm guessing it's already been pointed out, but...

On 2019-04-21 at 2:47 PM, (PS4)ImTheOx said:

Mesa's PACE MAKER

All I imagine is mesa with some heart problems.

Jokes aside, there's always gonna be a meta. Nothing DE can do will stop that. Even with your changes, the meta will only change to suit it, ie, your proposed mesa change would make it so that chroma isn't used, and the meta becomes harrow, trin, volt and mesa.

Plus, you're using limbo, who is still hated within certain parts of the community. That's probably what tips the host over the edge.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

To make things easier is one of the basic human characters, I can’t see the reason why, in WF, should be different.

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

On 2019-04-21 at 3:30 PM, BloodKitten said:

exploiter orb was a perfect example on how to make all frames viable, you have to play smart and you cant rush it to an unreasonable amount of time, tridolon would need a damage cap so other frames will be as usefull, so for example, you wont be able to one shot the weakspots due to damage cap, but every frame with the same weapon build can use simular amount of shots, it would make chroma less mendatory and allow more diverse frame selection, basicly, disallow buff from warframe to apply to eidolon and maintain the damage it recive from only the weapon and its mods.

I feel as though its really only viable for all warframes as BARELY ANY Warframe ability works. Trinity cant Energy Vampire raknoids, Mesa cant Peacemaker raknoids, only abilities that have SOME functionality are ones that drain energy over time like exalted weapons (Except Regulators because Peacemaker doesn't bloody work) and even then, Trinity cant help when you're out of energy so it's either Pizzas or you're SOL 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng said:

I feel as though its really only viable for all warframes as BARELY ANY Warframe ability works. Trinity cant Energy Vampire raknoids, Mesa cant Peacemaker raknoids, only abilities that have SOME functionality are ones that drain energy over time like exalted weapons (Except Regulators because Peacemaker doesn't bloody work) and even then, Trinity cant help when you're out of energy so it's either Pizzas or you're SOL 

There was still a meta for exploiter orb it's just not as many people knew or used it. Eidolons have been around a long time, a lot of research has been done and the strats are very well known hence the hard and fast meta whereas exploiter orb is less publicised in terms of strategy, save for the nova strat that DE nerfed. There was still a meta though regardless.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

On 2019-04-21 at 9:17 AM, Sir_Carl said:

It's like saying make Rhino viable for spy missions, Ivara for interception, or Loki for profit taker.

I mean yes you ca bring those but it's not efficient.

 

Although I agree Limbo does offer teamplay abilites for Tridolons. 

You broke my god damn heart that I have to link this. 

 

Peace & Love n00b. 

 

Also Nezha is the fastest Lua spy runner, he can teleport into the rooms with some practice ignoring the entire obstacle. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by (NSW)Evilpricetag

[Sir_Carl]

22 hours ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

You broke my god damn heart that I have to link this. 

 

Peace & Love n00b. 

 

Also Nezha is the fastest Lua spy runner, he can teleport into the rooms with some practice ignoring the entire obstacle. 

You people won't just stop linking my comment over and over saying this and that is viable so I'll just paste this from some website:

What is the difference between effectiveness and efficiency? They are two buzzwords that are popularly used by CEOs and Sales VPs in charting the course of their organization. Yet, they are also commonly misused and misinterpreted, not just in the lexicon of business-speak but also in daily use. For all intents and purposes, let’s begin by defining efficiency and effectiveness in general terms, borrowing from Dictionary.com:

Effective (adj.) – Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.

Efficient (adj.) – Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.

The difference between effectiveness and efficiency can be summed up shortly, sweetly and succinctly – Being effective is about doing the right things, while being efficient is about doing things right.

Not so hard to understand eh?

[(PSN)purpkilaweed]

There is nothing wrong with Eidolon hunts,.. If u are with friends all Frames are viable,. 

If u wanna improve hunts lets start from trying a bigger better rewards from Tridalon? Make new players wanna do hunts, 

Apologies for the noob idea comment, Limbo in a random hunt like that is the biggest troll 😂 

OP might have good frame knowledge in a hunt but do u guys think the majority of the community knows everything OP knows?  

The Meta is fine ! More rewards would be better,. 

Thats just my opinions u can leave it i dont care