Ephemera Do Not Satisfy Their Purpose

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

UPDATE: Just got my third Braton Vandal Blueprint trying to get Blazing Step. :) Everything is fine. This is fine.

A few weeks back, I made a topic regarding Elite Sanctuary Onslaught about suggesting a change to the game modes rotation reward system, While there were several reasons I had to support this mindset, one of which was being in the aftermath of experiencing the gut wrenching grind that is the quest to obtain the Blazing Step Ephemera (which I still have not obtained and have instead now two Braton Vandal Blueprints instead). While I do still share my feelings on that particular matter, this led to me thinking about how Ephemera have been implemented in the game as a whole.

DE have gone on record stating that the purpose of Ephemera were to be cosmetic items that existed for the sake of giving end game/veteran players a goal to strive for. The way DE described this made it sound like Ephemera would be merit based and would be obtained upon completing specific goals. While the upcoming Eidolon Ephemera has been stated to be merit based, if you jump to the current state of the Ephemera in game as of the making of this post, this isn't the case at all for the rest. All but one of the currently existing, non Easter related Ephemera are pure RNG that, in their current state, ANYONE has access to. Bleeding Body is the only Ephemera, as of the making of this post, that is remotely merit based in that you need to complete at least 20 Arbitration reward cycles in order to obtain it. While not necessarily "end game" or "veteran tier" in terms of accomplishment, its an actual accomplishment of some kind. This is a tangible goal with observable progress that matches what was described. As previously stated though, the others are nothing more than another RNG reward that anyone with access to the given sources can potentially get if they get lucky. This defeats the described purpose of Ephemera and removes what is supposed to make them special, as obtaining them through RNG is not a merit. Its nothing more than getting lucky like everything else in the game.

This isn't the only issue that is related to Ephemera either. With the introduction of Ephemera, it has led to a further dilution of the drop tables of the respective missions they drop from. Their mere inclusion has made several already difficult items to obtain even more so (this is particularly the case with Elite Sanctuary Onslaught Rotation C by adding yet another item to its massive table). The exception to this lies in the two Ephemera that drop from the Exploiter Orb, which have their own unique "cosmetic" drop table separate from the primary drop table of the Orb. While I argue that Ephemera shouldn't be based on RNG in general and should all be merit based, if RNG MUST be involved, I believe that all Ephemera should be treated in a similar manner as this where they have their own unique drop chance separate from the main drop table. For example, in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, you would have a chance of receiving the Ephemera on top of receiving whatever Rotation C reward you would have gotten upon reaching and completing Rotation C. In the case of Stalker, it would be adding a "cosmetic" table to his drops.

Another reason to support this is the fact that once you get an Ephemera and build it, there is no reason to get a second one. They become a waste of a drop as they are not tradeable. The only thing you get out of these Ephemera afterward is credits, which for the described target audience of "end game" or veteran players is not useful in the slightest. Such players typically have a massive hoard of credits more than they know what to do with, myself included sitting at over 300 million. Selling these for credits is, in essence, a rain drop in the middle of the ocean. Again, if DE insist upon RNG mechanics behind getting even SOME of these Ephemera, I think this system would make obtaining them at least somewhat more tolerable and they would not become what essentially is a "one time useful" drop just taking up space in the drop table of that mission once you have already obtained it. That and preventing them from diluting the drop chances of everything else in said drop tables (looking at you Braton Vandal Blueprint).

Before responding: As previously stated, I could be considered a veteran at this point. I've been playing since 2014, have over 4K hours in game, and have done/collected nearly everything in the game at this point. This post isn't intended to complain about non-end game or non veteran players or anything like that. I don't want your rewards taken away. If you got any of the Ephemera and you are relatively early on in the game, then you deserve it whether it was luck or not. I'm just going off of what DE claimed these items were supposed to be for, and based on that description it doesnt make sense for just anyone to get them out of just getting lucky. DE laid these out to be special and I really think it was an interesting idea but its had poor execution in my eyes. The Eidolon Ephemera is a step in the right direction, but I think changes need to be made to the other Ephemera (save for Bleeding Body). Even if DE cling to the desire to make them RNG, at least making them have their own cosmetic drop table in their respective locations would at least prevent them from being useless after getting them once and in the case of Blazing Step might make them far less painful to get. Regardless of what is done I think some kind of improvement to obtaining Ephemera is necessary. I'm also not making this post purely out of being salty over bad RNG luck. I've obtained all but the Smoking Body and Blazing Step Ephemera as of the making of this post and out of those two, only one is excruciating in its drop chance. Me not having Smoking Body is largely to blame on me not playing many normal missions anymore and therefore few Stalker encounters. While my horrible experience with grinding for Blazing Step probably makes me biased, sitting at at least 100 attempts now, I would still believe in my arguments even if I already had every Ephemera in my possession.

TL;DR: Ephemera should be merit based like they were originally made out to be or have their own drop tables instead of taking up valuable item space in end game mission types that people take part in for specific rewards.

Edited April 23, 2019 by DawnoftheWhiteFury
Added a TL;DR

[(XBOX)Oussii]

30 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

While my horrible experience with grinding for Blazing Step probably makes me biased, sitting at at least 100 attempts now, I would still believe in my arguments even if I already had every Ephemera in my possession.

blazing steps is not worth it. the effect is barely visible. the only good one is the smoke from the stalker

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

the stalker ephemera used as "flames" for Chroma looks good to me

[sleepychewbacca]

Literally TLDR. 

I'll assume this is about RNG and some other thing related to it? 

[khazlol]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

blazing steps is not worth it. the effect is barely visible. the only good one is the smoke from the stalker

to be honest, even that one is a bit meh, can't even see it unless i stand stil.

[(XBOX)AlingsasArrende]

Well argued post by OP, on why the Ephemeras should all be merit based instead of pure RNG; and if RNG still should be involved Ephemeras should not replace other rewards. I can only agree.

[Ham_Grenabe]

This is all premised on the assumption that merit-based rewards in Warframe are something DE considers desirable. If you can get it predictably, you don't play as much. 

[Gruiz]

Thats why they said that they will do new ephemera not associated with RNG

[DrBorris]

First, I'd like to point out that the OP is well written. Sometimes longer posts are just an incoherent ramble, this is not one of those cases. If you aren't willing to give the time to spend five minutes to read a topic than I question how much you actually care about having a decent discussion. You can't express ideas fully in two bullet points.

 

On topic, I completely agree, my idea from a post awhile ago...

On 2019-03-20 at 2:28 PM, DrBorris said:

In a perfect world, this is how we would get the new Ephemera:

• Blazing Step: Complete 10 reward rotations in a single Arbitration
• Seeding Step: Get a score of xxxxxxxx in ESO
• Freezing Step: Defeat Exploiter without a single Coolant Raknoid reaching Exploiter.
• Shocking Step: Defeat Profit Taker in under 5 minutes.
• Bleeding Body: Fine as is.
• Smoking Body: Fine as is. (One RNG Ephemera is fine)

 

[S.Dust]

TLDR

I read the comments though and from what I got from those its about a merit based system for the rewards and I can agree they should just give a super hard challenge and guarantee the reward if we complete it;  maybe we have to go through a sortie boss rush or something so we have to fight all bosses at the highest sortie levels with like 2 lives or something.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

all ephemera is merit based to an extent since u need to clear the entire starchart to even craft it (vitus essense).

Smoking body is the only 1 worth it cuz its more visible then being on ur feet.

[SordidDreams]

7 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

The way DE described this made it sound like Ephemera would be merit based and would be obtained upon completing specific goals.

Yeah, and I do believe they earnestly tried to do that. The problem is they have no idea what that even means. I remember in one of the recent streams Rebecca said the upcoming eidolon ephemera would be merit-based, it would be awarded for finishing some difficult challenge, and then gave two examples of what that could be.

One was capturing a hundred eidolons, and I facepalmed at that. That's not difficult, that's just tedious. It's not a challenge, it's a chore. The only challenge is to the player's patience. The other was capturing a hydrolyst solo, IIRC. Now that is hard. And that's just the thing. She gave these two examples as if there was no difference between them; she didn't see the difference. Think about that for a second. She can't tell the difference between tedious and difficult. It seems to me, after playing this game for thousands of hours, that the inability to distinguish between those two things, tedious and difficult, is one of the biggest problems DE as a dev studio has.

7 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

if RNG MUST be involved, I believe that all Ephemera should be treated in a similar manner as this where they have their own unique drop chance separate from the main drop table

Couldn't agree more.

7 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

once you get an Ephemera and build it, there is no reason to get a second one. They become a waste of a drop as they are not tradeable. The only thing you get out of these Ephemera afterward is credits, which for the described target audience of "end game" or veteran players is not useful in the slightest. Such players typically have a massive hoard of credits more than they know what to do with, myself included sitting at over 300 million. Selling these for credits is, in essence, a rain drop in the middle of the ocean

I mean, that's easily fixed by just bumping up their sell price a few orders of magnitude. They're so rare they could easily sell for a million or ten, and even as an endgame player I'd be happy with that.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SordidDreams

[WhiteMarker]

2 hours ago, (XB1)AlingsasArrende said:

This reminds me of some of my worst students. There is always one millenial in the class who says "I didn't read the texts, can't you just tell me what they're about?". That person normally fails the course. 😉

Mate, no one wants to hear you say that you did not read it. That adds nothing. Plus: instead of asking what the text says, you could skim it. Practice your reading skills often and it will be easy. Good luck!

Can I just say that I love you talking down to someone, saying they are to lazy to do simple things. And at the same time you are making a double post instead of editing your original post...
Seems like you failed to use the forum properly. ^^

 

[sleepychewbacca]

There's a difference in being to the point, and being needlessly verbose. I didn't read the wall of text simply because I presume it says the same thing we always see. RNG, hard to get, luck =/= merit. Something something this needs to change. 

The usual Feedback in General Discussion. Which, interestingly, adds nothing if the OP wants to make change. 

Maybe I fail at the forums yes. But I'll live with that. It's just a game, and not something that I take seriously. 

 

[Xolgys]

my biggest issue is the silly RNG too. stopped counting my ESO runs of which i did a lot considering my bit of spare time available. 1%...on rotation C ? who comes up with these numbers ? i cant argue about blazing step being worth it or not since ive yet to get it, only have bleeding body and that one is quite visible but i'd prefer more but smaller drops instead of these unrealistic, huge blobs of goo....

the RNG on the others is quite silly tho, not just blazing step but also the ones on exploiter which i also tried to get...NOPE ! on comparison...bleeding body is literally free for every long time player.  the contrast is unbelievable. all of them should be less RNG and more effort based. its not like ephemera are a warframe like ivara or nidus in terms of value and these can be bought for plat if someone doesnt have that much spare time.

from what i remember ephemera are supposed to be something that shows a players "effort"...what part of luck has anything to do with effort ? effort means having a set requirement to be fullfilled to get something, like an achievement.

 

 

 

[--END--Rikutatis]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

blazing steps is not worth it. the effect is barely visible. the only good one is the smoke from the stalker

Blazing step is still one of the better ones IMO. Seeding step is too niche and weird for me to care about it, bleeding and freezing both look horrible and unrealistic, I have no idea how DE ever greenlighted those two for release. Shocking and blazing are the better ones for "steps", at least they look better and adapt well to different energy colors. Although I do agree smoking is probably my favorite as well. 

(atm the only two I own are shocking and freezing from farming the exploiter, can't be arsed with the RNG on the other ones, although I do plan to farm Stalker once Baro brings his beacons)

[QuinnCarter]

I still have no idea why these weren't available from the market, they're cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

I just got the Electric Ephemera. Currently have Volt Systems cooking...

This threads has me worried now.

[(XBOX)AlingsasArrende]

6 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

 being needlessly verbose.

Well, I have to agree you have a point there.

6 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

 saying they are to lazy to do simple things.

 

Actually, you're right. I was a bit harsh.

[Mover-NeRo]

I am not even trying,  got the blood one ant that is it. Others are just too RNG and dont reflect anything just luck.

[Gruiz]

2 hours ago, QuinnCarter said:

I still have no idea why these weren't available from the market, they're cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay.

Those are supposed to be reward for high-level content, without power creeping

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

12 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

 I didn't read the wall of text simply because I presume it says the same thing we always see. RNG, hard to get, luck =/= merit. Something something this needs to change. 

 

Also, if you actually read the post, you would know the argument being made isn't "RNG bad" or even that they are hard to get (save for Blazing Step). The argument is that these items in question were made out to be merit based in their inception but then made RNG when implemented. Why would I be playing Warframe if I hated RNG as a whole? I literally even say "If DE insist on having RNG be related at least give the Ephemera their own drop table to prevent them taking up space in end game missions."

Not reading the post and then making assumptions about it is just shooting yourself in the foot. Again, why participate at all if you didn't bother reading, especially if you claim to not take this seriously? Literally no point.

Edited April 23, 2019 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Mover-NeRo said:

I am not even trying,  got the blood one ant that is it. Others are just too RNG and dont reflect anything just luck.

This for me...and they aren’t that impressive.

 BUT, OP is wrong 😏 because 90% of my clannies are Crack-enhanced Pavlovian Lemmings to get them.

At least that’s my experience.

Edited April 22, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[sleepychewbacca]

2 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

snip

2 hours ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

snip

 

Well. Why participate? 

Partly in the hope that maybe your thread would be different to the countless feedback threads posted on GD? I always feel that these threads have no point, so maybe my comments do reflect that too much. To be honest, I have no idea why I commented. Perhaps once again I was just bored? 

The TLDR is appreciated nonetheless. 

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Fun little update FYI: Just got my third Braton Vandal Blueprint trying to get Blazing Step. :) Everything is fine. This is fine.