is Excalibur really well designed?

[supernils]

For being the signature warframe I expected a bit more when I got Excalibur (Umbra).

My (not into depth) impression so far:

1) pretty useless, it's a little mobility and damage that does not scale well into mid game

2) this is just OP, it's better than Lokis 4. Enemies are all hard CC'd, open to finishers PLUS this invisibility portion? Come on...

3) AGAIN a AoE CC? Just less duration, higher cost and again damage that does not scale well. This seems just redundant times 10

4) well ok, exaulted weapon

 

So how do you actually play this frame?

[(NSW)Katsuro]

Activate 4 and spam melee while using 2 on tough enemies for stealth multiplier for more damage.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

There is no appropriate way to play any frame. I still think Excalibur’s powers should still be changed. More specific, his 1 & 3. They both don’t really serve a purpose into mid game. His 1 just dashes into enemies in a cone & surviving enemies just fall to the ground & I don’t even know what’s his 3 is for. 

But most players just uses his 4th & his 2 when playing him.  

[swiftasacoursing]

8 minutes ago, supernils said:

PLUS this invisibility portion?

The invisibility is from Skiajati, not the ability. Skiajati makes you invisible on finishers

[Uhkretor]

54 minutes ago, supernils said:

invisibility portion?

45 minutes ago, swiftasacoursing said:

The invisibility is from Skiajati, not the ability. Skiajati makes you invisible on finishers

Skiajati is Umbra's signature weapon. The Invisibility is caused by the blade as "signature effect".

 

54 minutes ago, supernils said:

1) pretty useless, it's a little mobility and damage that does not scale well into mid game

2) this is just OP, it's better than Lokis 4. Enemies are all hard CC'd, open to finishers PLUS this invisibility portion? Come on...

3) AGAIN a AoE CC? Just less duration, higher cost and again damage that does not scale well. This seems just redundant times 10

4) well ok, exaulted weapon

Ability use, in case you're trying to turn it into a nuker (which you can't)

Ability 1) You use it in unison with Exalted Blade from "Mid to High". Use it without Exalted Blade from "Low mid" to "Low"

Ability 2) CC, best used against a specific enemy faction to clear up buffed resistances.

Ability 3) Partial room cleaner, doesn't need to scale up for its intended purpose of clearing up the trash.

Ability 4) Its an Exalted Weapon. Take your own conclusions from it, as you should have from the rest of its abilities.

 

54 minutes ago, supernils said:

So how do you actually play this frame?

Differently from you, apparently. I can solo lvl350 enemies without worries.

 

Edit: Then again, running Excal from the 1st second, since U7.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Uhkretor

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Technically no because his 3 is useless. It needs to be changed to something else.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, supernils said:

For being the signature warframe I expected a bit more when I got Excalibur (Umbra).

My (not into depth) impression so far:

1) pretty useless, it's a little mobility and damage that does not scale well into mid game

2) this is just OP, it's better than Lokis 4. Enemies are all hard CC'd, open to finishers PLUS this invisibility portion? Come on...

3) AGAIN a AoE CC? Just less duration, higher cost and again damage that does not scale well. This seems just redundant times 10

4) well ok, exaulted weapon

 

So how do you actually play this frame?

NO his 1 is actually pretty cool when paired with his 4 and it's augment

Can increase 4's damage and with exalted gas build everything dies with the power of farts

[Loza03]

I do think he has something OP, but it ain't his 2. Especially since it doesn't, in fact, give him invisibility. I say this mostly because of it being blocked by the environment and it being a one-and-done instead of constant - new enemies showing up can still deliver a swift kick in the ribs and you have a short period in which you can't react if they do. Compared to Invisibility, which basically means no enemy that encounters you has the ability to do anything to you for around 40 seconds.

His 4, specifically the fact it has good range with the waves. It A: takes away from the whole 'swordsman' thing if he has the range of a gun and B: Good Damage, Good sustainability and Good Range is honeslty a trifecta that enables him to be a bit mindless. Removing them at least presents the requirement of getting close first. Maybe up the damage a bit to compensate, or maybe a charge attack that's a larger, more powerful wave (think Getsuga Tenshou).

His 1 gives him an approach or escape option. That's a valuable gameplay opportunity.

His 3 - I don't know. I do think it is kind of useless, although it is also one of the coolest abilities on a conceptual level. I hope DE can figure something out about it eventually.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

My Excalibur causes 50k crits with 100% status chance w/corrosive damage. And no, that's not even a full build because i didn't bother making a full build for him. 

He has a good CC, bonkers damage. Looks fine for a glass cannon.

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Technically no because his 3 is useless. It needs to be changed to something else.

Agreed, but otherwise I think Excalibur is well designed as an "all rounder" type frame.

If they would change his 3 to a "double action" type ability that gave some defensive option and could still be sent out for the current effect I think he'd be perfectly balanced personally.

[Hrodgrim]

The only change Excalibur needs is to simply cause Radial Javelin to be considered melee damage. This would make it subject to combo multiplier and stealth multiplier, as well as power strength, and could possibly warrant lowering the damage further. This simple change would give it un-forced synergy (not dependence, looking at you Oberon) with Excalibur's other powers and his augments, not to mention allowing the attack to scale into high end content.

 

For your consideration:

Radial Javelin base damage: 1000

Power Strength: 130% ; 1.3x (Intensify)

Melee Combo: 1.5x

Stealth multiplier: 600% ; 6x

Final damage: 11,700 per javelin

And this is only the very beginning of what it could become.

[Tatann]

His 1 makes you invincible, so it scales a lot

And its augment can give you good melee combo very fast, which is the purpose of Excalibur, melee the crap out of your enemies

So yeah, his 1 is not that bad, I can give you all the Teslas in the world for it

[000l000]

Il y a 20 heures, Uhkretor a dit :

Differently from you, apparently. I can solo lvl350 enemies without worries.

Edit: Then again, running Excal from the 1st second, since U7.

Every single frame can kill pretty much anything with melee weapons only, that's not an argument. OP isn't complaining as a whole nor saying Excalibur can't kill a thing either so unless you're trolling on purpose or having too much hate to share, i don't get your point.

Are all players from U7 that arrogant or you're the only one ?

[Firetempest]

Its a product of its time as well. Warframe ~7 years ago and his rework 4 years ago had different "end content" challenges. In the early years powers where a sometimes power play. Most of the combat came down to guns and movement. Now powers are more like a mmos class ability rotation and always active in some way. And hes more a one trick pony now for the layman. Although not even close to useless. Hes just "that sword frame".

All Umbra was is a Excalibur Prime Substitute. Hes the signature frame because he was the first. Hes not for everyone but space ninja woosh woosh magic blades make for a good advertisement.

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

Are all players from U7 that arrogant or you're the only one ?

Towards you alone or the rest?

[Olphalarepth]

7 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Towards you alone or the rest?

Why so pissy? He/she and Op have a point. Nobody said in this thread that excalibur needs a rework because he is bad or whatever. The point is simply addressing 2 of his abilities serving absolute no purpose whatsoever as they are overshadowed by his other good ones. As someone who played excalibur quite a lot in the past allow me the chance to explain

1: a simple dash that add nothing except a brief moment of invincibility. 25 points of energy seems a bit too much imo, laughable damage and it is useless to use it in tandem with exalted blade as you can simply spam "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" and obliterate everything in sight without paying the cost of the skill. Not saying it should be replaced with an overkill ability but let's be honest for a second here. Who actually use this? *hard mode*, who actually use this without thinking "wow, that is why I never use this"?

2: Perfect

3: 75 points of energy, that is 25 more points compared to his second ability but with a difference. His 2 blocks everything and opens them to finishers, his 3 stagger enemies for 2 or 3 seconds and inflicts an amount of damage that is beyond laughable. Literally you can only hope to kill low level enemies (like really low level enemies). Break the math all you want trying to discredit but use in game. Now tell me with a straight face it is ok and doesn't sucks. 75 points of energy for this suckerage is downright pathetic. This could be fixed in various ways as someone already suggested so it is still possible to save it.

 

Please don't give us the "my excalibur can kill ballas in supersayan mode wile finding the cure for cancer" crap. Once again, we're not discussing excalibur general viability but a simple rework for his 2 abilities that really see no use as they actually do nothing that his other 2 can't do better, in a case with using even less energy.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Who actually use this?

I use Slash dash for air mobility personally, it makes for a good way to cover distance in the air while also being invincible.

[Uhkretor]

10 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Why so pissy?

8 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Towards you alone or the rest?

^

 

10 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Please don't give us the "my excalibur can kill ballas in supersayan mode wile finding the cure for cancer" crap.

... He didn't, he was gravely wounded with a sword stab.

 

People seem to assume that:

a) because I replied TO, the following:

On 2019-09-06 at 4:34 PM, supernils said:

So how do you actually play this frame?

On 2019-09-06 at 5:28 PM, Uhkretor said:

Differently from you, apparently. I can solo lvl350 enemies without worries.

I'm arrogant for playing with my Excal differently than the OP, apparently.

Then the only one that had the right to reply to me was the very one that asked if arrogancy was common on every U7 player, or just me. Instead, someone else got prickled, and is getting the same exact directed reply as the previous one.

 

My reply to the OP had nothing wrong in the first place, as I only specified a way to use Excal's several abilities, and pointed out that I have severe experience with an Excal. There is no shred of either arrogancy or pissy towards the OP. Open your eyes and read, instead of skimming through everyone else's post besides the OP.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Olphalarepth]

Oh, I'm sorry. I was going for

On 2019-09-06 at 6:28 PM, Uhkretor said:

Differently from you, apparently. I can solo lvl350 enemies without worries.

That "I can solo lv x" gave the whole post a touch of arrogance. OP said nothing about excalibur not being able to perform in any kind of content but that part of your response gave the impression you were insinuating something. If I'm wrong I'm sorry.

 

We all know the trick of using exalted blade and using life strike only to spam E and alternating with his 2 and letting hunter adrenaline refill your energy pool. I'm sure DE has access to data regarding skill usage so I'm not going to claim as a fact that nobody EVER uses 1 and 3 even though I have reason to believe only a very small fraction does (but this is just an opinion with no data). Every time I see an excalibur in party it is always the same build and same skill and I can't blame them since I play sword boy the same way and I can't recall ever seeing anyone using slash dash or radial javelin.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[Uhkretor]

Just now, Olphalarepth said:

That "I can solo lv x" gave the whole post a touch of arrogance.

If you were already expecting arrogance from that statement, you'll obviously get arrogance and its no one's fault other than yours for misinterpreting it by yourself, to whomever this applies.

Even so, the fact that I can solo lvl350 enemies without worries, without CO and/or CB, is still true.

 

... With that said,  someone else should share his/her ideas on using Excal abilities and why they are there, and if they agree with the OP's assessment or not. I already did it on my reply to the OP, perhaps more should give their contribution, positively or negatively. Thanks in advance.

[Midas]

On 2019-09-06 at 11:34 AM, supernils said:

For being the signature warframe I expected a bit more when I got Excalibur (Umbra).

My (not into depth) impression so far:

1) pretty useless, it's a little mobility and damage that does not scale well into mid game

2) this is just OP, it's better than Lokis 4. Enemies are all hard CC'd, open to finishers PLUS this invisibility portion? Come on...

3) AGAIN a AoE CC? Just less duration, higher cost and again damage that does not scale well. This seems just redundant times 10

4) well ok, exaulted weapon

 

So how do you actually play this frame?

take a look at his 1s augment and his 3's augment... You become an unstoppable mad man if you incorporate your entire kit correctly.

I ASSURE YOU, if you try hard enough you will get an amazing Excalibur build.

You can get up to 24k armor on Excalibur Umbra/Prime easily while dishing out millions if not billions of damage very quickly.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Midas

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 2019-09-06 at 3:06 PM, Loza03 said:

His 4, specifically the fact it has good range with the waves. It A: takes away from the whole 'swordsman' thing if he has the range of a gun and B: Good Damage, Good sustainability and Good Range is honeslty a trifecta that enables him to be a bit mindless. Removing them at least presents the requirement of getting close first. Maybe up the damage a bit to compensate, or maybe a charge attack that's a larger, more powerful wave (think Getsuga Tenshou).

Aside from his 3 being terrible, this is actually my biggest issue with Excalibur. His 4 is just a replacement for a gun, except is spammed mindlessly with no aiming and completely removes entire "swordsman" feel to the frame. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

His second and fourth abilities are incredible. His first ability has a niche but actual use. His third ability is useful with augment but only if you like to play with the augment. I find it fun, others find it useless. Opinions vary.

2 hours ago, Midas said:

take a look at his 1s augment and his 3's augment... You become an unstoppable mad man if you incorporate your entire kit correctly.

I ASSURE YOU, if you try hard enough you will get an amazing Excalibur build.

You can get up to 24k armor on Excalibur Umbra/Prime easily while dishing out millions if not billions of damage very quickly.

Please tell me how I can get that much armor on Excal Umbra considering I'm pretty bad at this game and die in any Sortie 3 mission?

[Aldain]

16 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

His third ability is useful with augment but only if you like to play with the augment. I find it fun, others find it useless.

I find it superfluous since melee damage already has numerous ways to get out-of-control (Condition Overload etc.) so I guess I'm more in the crowd who finds it...mediocre is the right word.

The augment isn't really a problem, the augment itself is fine, the issue is the ability itself just has a long cast time for little damage or payoff.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

I find it superfluous since melee damage already has numerous ways to get out-of-control (Condition Overload etc.) so I guess I'm more in the crowd who finds it...mediocre is the right word.

The augment isn't really a problem, the augment itself is fine, the issue is the ability itself just has a long cast time for little damage or payoff.

His third ability has no use without the augment. I wouldn’t defend Radial Javelin even with a ten foot long Exalted Blade.

And generally I use the augment for fun with temporary bursts of insane melee damage, to buff up melees I’m relevelling, or just to make a bad melee a little bit better. That or Elemental Enhancement Sorties.