Universal Medallions should apply to conclave

[BiancaRoughfin]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

when it was introduced, i'd probably agree.

but nowadays with Parkour, it's one of the most unique PvP type experiences that exists in the entire Industry.

You do know there are players using aimbot programs in Conclave? I my self submitted a report a month or two back on one that was also posting his videos on Youtube.

[(PSN)ifihateyou]

43 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

the validity of their own claims for being good at the game relies on how well designed the game is, and given Conclave is extremely flawed, I'd say even they have no say on their own skill, only on their own ability to manipulate issues in the design to forge victories they may very well not deserve

This part is actually wrong. You're entitled to your own opinion but this is wrong and I'd even argue that its not an opinion and more of an incorrect hypothesis you came up with. There's only a few weapons that are exploitable weapons. Mainly AoE, so if you get stomped by someone who mains Bratons and Swords, then you just lost fair and square. 

What "manipulative issues" were you even referring to ? I mean, people might use knock downs and staggers to get a free shot here and there but... manipulative issues ????? 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

They are sending one person into space. According to the information given directly to us, this costs them 250.000$. Comparing the cost of this with PR budgets of other similar playerbases, that's not all that much money. Take for example the 2013 reboot of Tomb Raider, which, despite selling very well, with 3.4 million copies in the first month, was called a financial failure by it's publisher, since it whould have to sold roughly twice the amount to make a profit. Just to give you a perspective of the numbers in videogame development.

But and I quote 

 

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

DE cannot go around and throw money at non-profitable cloud-castles if they don't want their emplyees children to go hungry to bed, jsut because the company doesn't make the money to keep the lights on

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

Second, Hardcore Conclave Players aren't seen as toxic for being good at Conclave, they're seen as toxic for the way they treat everyone else in regards to conclave. Offer any criticism against Conclave, legitimate or otherwise, and they'll come out of the wood work and deplatform your criticism, often on the basis of not being as good at Conclave as they are, which is easily the most arrogant thing I've ever encountered,

I’ve seen that about every aspect of the warframe community and while I can say this isn’t okay in any way shape or form it’s a common practice done by most of the reddit and forums. But call me biased. Because as of recent people are blaming one persons words for the change of an item and on top of that blaming an entire subsection of their own community for one persons actions.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

50 minutes ago, (NSW)Fiftycentis said:

It's just because before universal medallions one would simply renounce to the skins, but now that we have a way to get them without playing conclave, we want that way to earn them, you see no discussions about it because after years we know there's no point on bringing that topic up, and I think the same could be said for conclave, so many posts that bring no results

You do have a mode to earn it man. Instead of just letting years go by we could’ve and myself included been more adamant about it trying to introduce more things into conclave 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

 

I vehemently disagree with just about everything you've written there.

First, while the 'failure' of Conclave does fall squarely on DE's own shoulders, it is because they are its designers and not because they claimed it failed. The majority of players knew it was bad before DE ever said anything. In fact, it's because it was bad that caused players to avoid it, which in turn caused DE to admit it was a failure, ie the opposite cause and effect of what you're claiming.

If anything, DE admitting it was a failure could possibly give hope that something will be done about it.

 

Also I do agree that it’s des fault but before announcement nobody wanted PvP beforehand. It wasn’t received well before launch making it hard to please the crowd beforehand. I personally see them admitting it as a failure to further make people feel like Therese no need for PvP for wf in the first place or for those to say ‘we knew this before it started!’ Regardless of how the game mode came out .

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

You do have a mode to earn it man. Instead of just letting years go by we could’ve and myself included been more adamant about it trying to introduce more things into conclave 

And in that same way conclave players have a mode to earn PvE rewards, they just have to play it! Your point is what again? Because You literally just said the same thing about conclave so fair is fair is it not?

Edited September 12, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[Krion112]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)BEN_drowned__ said:

This part is actually wrong. You're entitled to your own opinion but this is wrong and I'd even argue that its not an opinion and more of an incorrect hypothesis you came up with.

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

TLDR; Conclave Players are labelled as toxic for their dismissive behaviors towards criticism

Just wanted to thank you for immediately providing example for that.

You immediately jump to the prospect that I am wrong, instead of wanting any discussion on problems in conclave. If you didn't want to be labelled 'toxic' (assuming your allegiance to Conclave, of course you should correct me if that's not true) you would have led with this following bit, instead of immediately jumping down my throat, and in fact never added this 'you're wrong' nonsense:

39 minutes ago, (PS4)BEN_drowned__ said:

What "manipulative issues" were you even referring to ?

To answer this, by that I was referring to inherent game balance issues Conclave has that players blatantly abuse to obtain victories that are cheap and 'unfair', or probably more accurately, not satisfactory. Given the topic of discussion isn't the balance of Conclave, I'll limit myself to the main problem I predominantly had with Conclave, and it's that enhanced mobility is too free and destroys a giant swathe of game balance right out the gate. Don't care if it's unique, it's imbalanced, as it allows too many available counters to a player at one time, especially considering it is not restricted by a resource like Stamina, thus destroying the viability of other genuine options.

In fact, I don't think I know of a single action game that uses an unrestricted enhanced movement system that is actually popular. Plenty with cult followings, sure, but truly popular? Nah. Unique games don't always make good games.

Feel free to argue that, if you really want. I don't want to be responsible for derailing this guys thread. I'd make my own thread, but, well, I'd just be encountering more of the behavior I warned about, and I'm not interested in that.

Addendum: Now, I would like to point out, that even if there are Conclave players that are relying on imbalanced mechanics for their victories, that doesn't default to a player being unskilled. Truly, the issue is more that a skilled player will know how to abuse an imbalance more than an ordinary player, which is probably the easiest way you can deter ordinary players from playing a PvP game.

 

20 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I’ve seen that about every aspect of the warframe community and while I can say this isn’t okay in any way shape or form it’s a common practice done by most of the reddit and forums. But call me biased. Because as of recent people are blaming one persons words for the change of an item and on top of that blaming an entire subsection of their own community for one persons actions.

I mean, you're not wrong. Early on, I was among Warframe's Lore crowd, and I can recall many a time where I was fought on just about every front for very minor thoughts and theories on Warframe's narrative stuff. Honestly, it's not that Conclave is the only place for toxicity, it's just the most notorious for it.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Krion112

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

9 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

Just wanted to thank you for immediately providing example for that.

You immediately jump to the prospect that I am wrong, instead of wanting any discussion on problems in conclave. If you didn't want to be labelled 'toxic' (assuming your allegiance to Conclave, of course you should correct me if that's not true) you would have led with this following bit, instead of immediately jumping down my throat, and in fact never added this 'you're wrong' nonsense:

To answer this, by that I was referring to inherent game balance issues Conclave has that players blatantly abuse to obtain victories that are cheap and 'unfair', or probably more accurately, not satisfactory. Given the topic of discussion isn't the balance of Conclave, I'll limit myself to the main problem I predominantly had with Conclave, and it's that enhanced mobility is too free and destroys a giant swathe of game balance right out the gate. Don't care if it's unique, it's imbalanced, as it allows too many available counters to a player at one time, especially considering it is not restricted by a resource like Stamina, thus destroying the viability of other genuine options.

In fact, I don't think I know of a single action game that uses an unrestricted enhanced movement system that is actually popular. Plenty with cult followings, sure, but truly popular? Nah. Unique games don't always make good games.

Feel free to argue that, if you really want. I don't want to be responsible for derailing this guys thread. I'd make my own thread, but, well, I'd just be encountering more of the behavior I warned about, and I'm not interested in that.

Addendum: Now, I would like to point out, that even if there are Conclave players that are relying on imbalanced mechanics for their victories, that doesn't default to a player being unskilled. Truly, the issue is more that a skilled player will know how to abuse an imbalance more than an ordinary player, which is probably the easiest way you can deter ordinary players from playing a PvP game.

 

I mean, you're not wrong. Early on, I was among Warframe's Lore crowd, and I can recall many a time where I was fought on just about every front for very minor thoughts and theories on Warframe's narrative stuff. Honestly, it's not that Conclave is the only place for toxicity, it's just the most notorious for it.

It’s the forums in general. Conclave players tend to be as friendly as any other aspect of the game. The conclave players aren’t notorious for this the forums and reddit are brother. I’ve been in countless lobbies where people afterwards would help new players or in game offer help if your not performing well in conclave. That’s actually what got me to play more. People take “would you like more help in conclave” as an insult because there is a impression that every conclave player is toxic. 

 

And the movement is somewhat broken I can agree. But I can also say the freedom of movement allows for high skill capped PvP if your good enough. I’ve seen and been in games where roll and bullet jump spamming is nothing to people who are used to conclave. The movement is very free and that’s an issue to many but also kinda fun if you take the time to learn how to beat it. To this day I’m still in awe seeing a dude get picked clean with a headshot while bullet jump spamming

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

You do know there are players using aimbot programs in Conclave?

in a Shooter? wow i've never heard of that before at all!
oh wait, that's a problem that every Shooter has to deal with.

i'm not sure where the big surprise or something about your statement is supposed to be.

or, how it has anything to do with my statement that Warframes' Parkour makes Conclave more unique than 95% of all Shooters that exist.

Edited September 12, 2019 by taiiat

[Stormdragon]

11 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

I'm supposed to respect the preferences of a half dozen players when they don't respect those of thousands? 

Respect and agreement are different things, while i respect your view of conclave, i don't agree with it.

11 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

And got burnt out trying to grind standing in that nightmare of a mode. 

It's understandable, i got burnt out of other stuff (like Exploiter Orb or nearly any other source of ephemeras) back when my only reason to go there was getting a specific drop. I still don't have them all, and you don't see me making a fuss because Teshin doesn't sell them and i don't want to keep playing those missions anymore. 

Quote

I think I'm justifiably angry

Yeah, even then it's not the first time De says something about a feature only to not implement it. We've been requesting a way to streamline matchmaking for years, Steve acknowledged that and said to have plans for it and still nothing has happened 3 years later:

You don't see us going for his head nor for that of every single PvE player providing feedback against DE doing some work for conclave. 

Quote

and Conclave's removal has been long since justified.

Perhaps for you and everyone else who just hates on it. If its removal was justified you can be sure DE would have done it long ago, it would not be the first time content gets removed from the game.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Stormdragon
Self moderation: removed non constructive bits of the post.

[(PSN)ifihateyou]

@Krion112

I feel you, but I'd just call it "knowing the ropes" or something. Every weapon that's usable isn't good, which isnt the players fault at all. Im not saying it's okay, but you can't say its anybody else's fault if you didn't know a particular weapon was bad in conclave. Trust me, there is actually a lot of skill involved when you study what's going on. The learning curve is pretty bad because PvE is so brain dead, that it doesn't even require you to tweak settings or do anything besides shoot fat stationary targets, so I can't blame you for being pushed away from high speed parkour ninja pvp.

 

Also, I wouldn't call the movement unbalanced because everyone can do the same parkour. The mobility stat matters to a degree, but everyone is capable of the same stuff. If you're playing free for all, then you just gotta be smart unless you dont care about dying. I'm not gonna say I can shoot a bullet jumping ninja right out of the air in an instant, but it helps to know that they probably can't kill you while they're didging/running away so planning accordingly to be offensive or evasive is a good thing to do. I'm just trying to get the point across that conclave isnt just a bunch of people killing each other with bugs and bad mechanics. 

[LSG501]

All I'm going to say is that within the OP's first 22 words they manage to show one of the reasons why people don't want to play conclave.... and then tries to make out that its the other people who have the issue with it later on...

Edited September 12, 2019 by LSG501

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

15 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

All I'm going to say is that within the OP's first 22 words they manage to show one of the reasons why people don't want to play conclave.... and then tries to make out that its the other people who have the issue with it later on...

I just saw a video where the have a post of DE meg saying they are working on conclave so that it’s more enjoyable for everyone..... so that’s also a factor as to probably why conclave will be kept out of UMs but I guess it’s only the conclave players man 

 

 

 

@ 4:55 but okay conclave players ruin everything

[LSG501]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I just saw a video where the have a post of DE meg saying they are working on conclave so that it’s more enjoyable for everyone..... so that’s also a factor as to probably why conclave will be kept out of UMs but I guess it’s only the conclave players man 

 

 

 

@ 4:55 but okay conclave players ruin everything

Clearly my post went over your head....  conclave is seen as having a toxic community by some non conclavers and here we have a conclaver starting a thread openly saying they go out of your way to annoy less experienced players....

 

And that post by Megan doesn't really say anything about actually changing the main issues with conclave... for all we know they're just going to try and shove more PvP events in like dog days (that was basically PvP with AI) all while ignoring the fact that a large proportion of players didn't even like that and just basically went afk for the entire mission....  

That post also only appeared after the medallions had been removed.... DE basically has two main ways of trying to fix issues when they screw up (and they did here), brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened or try and make out they're going to do changes to 'fix things' and then do the absolute minimum so it's essentially the same as before.  Seeing as they've not fixed conclave in the time I've been playing the game (around 4 years now) I doubt they're going to fix it in the few days/weeks they're going to spend on it now. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by LSG501

[Stormdragon]

2 hours ago, Krion112 said:

Second, Hardcore Conclave Players aren't seen as toxic for being good at Conclave, they're seen as toxic for the way they treat everyone else in regards to conclave. Offer any criticism against Conclave, legitimate or otherwise, and they'll come out of the wood work and deplatform your criticism, often on the basis of not being as good at Conclave as they are, which is easily the most arrogant thing I've ever encountered

I've been active in these forums for quite a while and can't remember anyone saying "i'm better than you so your feedback is worthless". Feel free to link any proof of that behavior you have found or report anyone doing it in the future since it goes against the PvP feedback guidelines provided by D20 long ago.

 

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

You do know there are players using aimbot programs in Conclave?

Yeah, and luckily warframe powers and some mechanics allow legit playersto stand firmly against hackers. For example, Volt's Electric Shield has always been quite handy and become even better against them with the ability to pick it up.

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

 I my self submitted a report a month or two back on one that was also posting his videos on Youtube.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was certain hack developer that keeps coming back with new accounts (yes, i've reported several guys who post their videos on youtube as well). There isn't much we can do as players other than report them, though.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Clearly my post went over your head....  conclave is seen as having a toxic community by some non conclavers and here we have a conclaver starting a thread openly saying they go out of your way to annoy less experienced players....

 

And that post by Megan doesn't really say anything about actually changing the main issues with conclave... for all we know they're just going to try and shove more PvP events in like dog days (that was basically PvP with AI) all while ignoring the fact that a large proportion of players didn't even like that and just basically went afk for the entire mission....  

That post also only appeared after the medallions had been removed.... DE basically has two main ways of trying to fix issues when they screw up (and they did here), brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened or try and make out they're going to do changes to 'fix things' and then do the absolute minimum so it's essentially the same as before.  Seeing as they've not fixed conclave in the time I've been playing the game (around 4 years now) I doubt they're going to fix it in the few days/weeks they're going to spend on it now. 

Please link me to a thread as I’ve never seen these and again you like to highlight the terrible out of the community assuming one speaks for all. That’s the forms and Reddit of warframe in general being toxic. But again because conclave it’s seen as 10x worse....

 

you guys confuse me.

In one moment you expect everyone to be patient and wait on DE to no end. But when it’s something you don’t like it’s acceptable to point out flaws in the game thatve been needed to be fixed.

 it makes sense for that response prior to the UM changes because they know if they are going to keep conclave separate from UMs something would have to be done about PvP. 

The route they are taking I. Don’t know but the fact thats acknowledged is that they are aware and are going to be trying new things to make PvP better for everyone who wants these items.

 

regardless I agree with what your saying on how DE fixes things. But it hasn’t been this much of an issue with the majority until UMs were present. You can’t be serious. It took conclave for the latter of you to see that DE does this for almost everything they do. It’s sad. And I’m not trying to insult you when I say these things but you all have let this issue remain prevalent because it’s never really affected your group in a negative light. You created this ability for the devs to think this behavior is acceptable myself included all we can do now is hope for better changes 

[Krion112]

1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

I've been active in these forums for quite a while and can't remember anyone saying "i'm better than you so your feedback is worthless". Feel free to link any proof of that behavior you have found or report anyone doing it in the future since it goes against the PvP feedback guidelines provided by D20 long ago.

No one is going to outright say "I'm better than you so your feedback is worthless", they're going to imply it, more becoming a concept like "You must be bad at the game because you're complaining about it".

As an example, you can just read the comment just a few posts above yours, quoted here:

3 hours ago, (PS4)BEN_drowned__ said:

I feel you, but I'd just call it "knowing the ropes" or something. Every weapon that's usable isn't good, which isnt the players fault at all. Im not saying it's okay, but you can't say its anybody else's fault if you didn't know a particular weapon was bad in conclave. Trust me, there is actually a lot of skill involved when you study what's going on. The learning curve is pretty bad because PvE is so brain dead, that it doesn't even require you to tweak settings or do anything besides shoot fat stationary targets, so I can't blame you for being pushed away from high speed parkour ninja pvp.

 

Also, I wouldn't call the movement unbalanced because everyone can do the same parkour. The mobility stat matters to a degree, but everyone is capable of the same stuff. If you're playing free for all, then you just gotta be smart unless you dont care about dying. I'm not gonna say I can shoot a bullet jumping ninja right out of the air in an instant, but it helps to know that they probably can't kill you while they're didging/running away so planning accordingly to be offensive or evasive is a good thing to do. I'm just trying to get the point across that conclave isnt just a bunch of people killing each other with bugs and bad mechanics. 

This entire post makes the assumption that I am unskilled and/or unfamiliar with Conclave. It implies that I haven't played or 'studied' conclave long enough and that PvE has made me (and/or players like me) complacent to 'brain dead' game-play. It's ultimately back to the point: Conclave players are dismissing feedback on the basis of skill (or the inferred lack there of, which isn't true, because I played Conclave for a couple years, long enough to get Typhoon and the cosmetics I wanted, and I think I became moderately skilled at it)

His whole position is that "This player is only criticizing Conclave because he doesn't understand it", implying that providing feedback that presents Conclave as incredibly flawed must mean I'm bad at Conclave, not that Conclave has flaws, when being good or bad at a game should not (and realistically, does not) qualify or un-qualify someone's feedback, and likewise presenting feedback on the gamemode is not indicative of one's skill.

So, I think I'm done with this.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Krion112

[S.Dust]

Lol Op give up man I play conclave and like it and as you said in your post it will never be in a good light so give up. If someone hates the mode they will hate it I can't say more than that. I think the mode is fun fast paced pvp that is actually well done. The community doesn't like it because it's not easy, it doesn't fit the games image which is a bs argument, and because they are use to just getting what they want. Sure I would like if the mode was worked on but at the pace DE puts out content I doubt conclave a mode that everyone is determined to hate will ever get the time of day. I'm honestly over the toxic thing because every community is toxic I don't care what community it is the bad parts are always just easier to spot this includes the general warframe community.

Just a general note to the people saying "I would go play some other pvp game if I wanted pvp" your argument is dumb I would go play guitar hero if I wanted that, I would go play a fishing game if I wanted that, I would go play an actual space flight shooter game if I wanted that. Warframe has alot of stuff in it that doesn't fit its image.

I can live with the small conclave community we have, wouldn't complain about new players cause no one is stopping them from joining but honestly I lost hope in warframe and its community a good while ago. I will say DE has gained an amount of respect back from me for choosing to actually not allow the uni meds in conclave, but it doesn't change the fact that pve has nothing worth doing, story progresses at a snails pace, and there is no end game. At least conclave is repayable due to the unpredictability of people.

This comment honestly requires no response because honestly why do you care enough to respond. You hate me, the mode, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

[(PSN)ifihateyou]

Well what you said implies that you haven't studied it. My point was skill is involved and you're wrong about mechanics being abused by the people that are actually good

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

No one is going to outright say "I'm better than you so your feedback is worthless", they're going to imply it, more becoming a concept like "You must be bad at the game because you're complaining about it".

Oddly enough, i've seen that happen a couple of times but it's usually a fallacy used by some players to back up balance changes, usually along the lines of "buff this thing i like"/"nerf that thing i dislike" without using hard data to back up the reasoning behind those changes which makes them be easily taken down through a mixture of data and advice.

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

This entire posts makes the assumption that I am unskilled and/or unfamiliar with Conclave.

I was writing a defense to his post but his reply proved me wrong before posting it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

16 minutes ago, (PS4)BEN_drowned__ said:

Well what you said implies that you haven't studied it. My point was skill is involved and you're wrong about mechanics being abused by the people that are actually good

Even tough agree with it not being abuse of mechanics that anyone can learn (even tough it may take a while for some people), i don't think it's fair to assume that others haven't tried to learn them or that aren't good at the game. There are plenty of ways to make your point understandable without making it sound like personal attacks.

[PatternistSlave]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How does the comment you quoted lead you to the conclussion that I'm ignorant?

Because I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you weren't being intellectually dishonest and/or ridiculous.  If someone was inclined to cheat they would use the far more efficient, safe, and easy way to do so that already exists.  They don't need the convoluted imaginings you've concocted.

@StormdragonYou don't see me throwing a little fit that they reduced the drop rate on ephemera.  In fact I'd be just as irate someone whined about it and they reverted the change despite my already having farmed them.

Edited September 13, 2019 by PatternistSlave

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

5 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

Respect and agreement are different things, while i respect your view of conclave, i don't agree with it.

It's understandable, i got burnt out of other stuff (like Exploiter Orb or nearly any other source of ephemeras) back when my only reason to go there was getting a specific drop. I still don't have them all, and you don't see me making a fuss because Teshin doesn't sell them and i don't want to keep playing those missions anymore. 

Yeah, even then it's not the first time De says something about a feature only to not implement it. We've been requesting a way to streamline matchmaking for years, Steve acknowledged that and said to have plans for it and still nothing has happened 3 years later:

You don't see us going for his head nor for that of every single PvE player providing feedback against DE doing some work for conclave. 

Perhaps for you and everyone else who just hates on it. If its removal was justified you can be sure DE would have done it long ago, it would not be the first time content gets removed from the game.

He’s only here to argue man. Ignore the poor lad 

[pantophage]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)BEN_drowned__ said:

Well what you said implies that you haven't studied it. My point was skill is involved and you're wrong about mechanics being abused by the people that are actually good

buddy I go into PVE missions from eidolons to survivals all the time with frames without meta damage dealing capabilities such as nyx, ivara, and nezha and routinely come out with 50%-70% damage, not because I'm a spin to win memeing striker or because I run around like a mad sweaty, but because I have slowly built my arsenal up to the point where there really isn't anything I don't have. no matter how good someone is at the game from a skill level, if they don't have good gear, they will never catch up.

I've also played quite a lot of conclave, and dragged friends into it as well. I can tell you that while the learning curve in conclave is steep, the gear curve is MUCH worse. Most people who I have introduced to conclave learn within the first match to never stand still, and by the fifth match their gunplay is getting close to mine (I'll be the first to admit that I lack the coordination to be called 'good' in conclave) But I have yet to lose to any of them, even ones who have played lots of skill based PVP games, for the sole reason that there are mods which give a hands down advantage to me and other higher ranked players which are only available to higher ranked players. They have slowly been moving away from this (heartseeker) , but some mod descriptions are still incorrect and I have seen conclave players actively deny these unintended affects in order to preserve their exploits.

While a gear gap is part of any PVP experience, conclave has the gear gap of a P2W game, but without the ability to buy your way out of it. And since there is not a decent matchmaking system (so even if there was a large enough playerbase for the matchmaking to change things, it wouldn't) anyone looking to try conclave is literally bashing their skull against a wall of players with higher skill/knowledge and a wall of players with gear that gives them a very unfair advantage. 

As for why conclave will not ever be seen in a good light, this thread is a prime example. The people in the "pro-conclave" crowd like to belittle those who don't play the gamemode, with several pro-conclave people in this thread referring to PVE players as if they are from not just a different game mode, but from a different game entirely. While all groups will have toxic contingents, Conclave players are considered especially so because there are very few to begin with and yet they still come out in droves on posts like this (relatively speaking) . Not to mention that in my hundred plus hours of conclave, I have encountered numerous ragelords in PVP lobby chats (and often after), far more than I have encountered in my thousands of hours of PVE combined (of which only 3 have PMd me after a mission). 

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-09-05 at 9:50 PM, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Anyone feels like this decision from the latest hotfix is real terrible way if forcing us to play conclave?

No one wants to play conclave since warframe is not design in the slightest for pvp and well it's empty most of the time besides the one or two people who wandered in by mistake. I gitbupnto max rank with conclave and it was the worst experience i ever had with warframe,  i rather inflict self harm in may different ways than every attempt to farm conclave rep and ibreally want the skins but i have to play conclave........

Plus don't see why it's so bad the medallions only give a 1000 rep so if you really need something from conclace you're going to have to farm a few hundred of them to get to the good stuff.

 

Having people gas light on the idea to have A I bots to auto fill the pvp is also another loss. The goal of new content is to give us more ways to play the game. Pulling a ‘hot’ then ‘cold’ move pattern is a shameless way to loss consumers.