Universal Medallions should apply to conclave

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So it is better they take the stance now instead of waiting for when it is too late to revert it.

That assumes it ever becomes an insurmountable problem that requires a revert.

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

My point regarding K-Drives is that they arent afraid to add niche modes to NW.

There's a difference between "fun niche" and "pvp niche". One is fun, the other is an exercise in frustration. Just because they added one type, doesn't mean they're going to add another. Not when they're very aware of how the PvP is perceived.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

3 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

If that’s the case why not play the mode... a lot of issues would be less prevalent if a lot of you did so... 

And what about the players that:

• Can’t find a match because of work/life schedule and can’t play at peak hours.
• Can’t find a match because of unstable internet connectivity to sustain PvP.
• Can’t find a match because of regional connectivity to DE’s servers.
• Can’t find a match because of platform (Switch players).

Have you not accounted for these circumstances within the Warframe playerbase? Nevermind the ones that refuse to play Conclave because of their personal disinterest to the gamemode, I didn’t include them. What about the ones that can’t even play Conclave because of what life throws at them?

[Aldain]

I don't have a horse in this race overall, since the only PvP I have ever played was Lunaro a few times to try it out (and being on the Switch the PvP community is smaller than small) but DeMonkey is right about the conversion rate being so small that no sane human would ever farm Disruption in place of actually playing PvP, but then again most people won't/don't play Warframe's PvP in the first place and wouldn't get standing either way.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I don't have a horse in this race overall, since the only PvP I have ever played was Lunaro a few times to try it out (and being on the Switch the PvP community is smaller than small) but DeMonkey is right about the conversion rate being so small that no sane human would ever farm Disruption in place of actually playing PvP, but then again most people won't/don't play Warframe's PvP in the first place and wouldn't get standing either way.

Correct, no sane individual would farm disruption upwards of 5,000 times just for a few skins.

The medallions, as they are now, would be nothing more than a little bonus. Even if their value were increased by 400% they'd still be little more than a bonus. They'd be a nice way of passively getting the odd 1,000-2,000 standing that you need instead of running a conclave match, or a nice way for those who have already played conclave to get some more of the rewards without having to go back.

Either way, who on Earth does it harm to allow such a minor bonus?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

And what about the players that:

• Can’t find a match because of work/life schedule and can’t play at peak hours.
• Can’t find a match because of unstable internet connectivity to sustain PvP.
• Can’t find a match because of regional connectivity to DE’s servers.
• Can’t find a match because of platform (Switch players).

Have you not accounted for these circumstances within the Warframe playerbase? Nevermind the ones that refuse to play Conclave because of their personal disinterest to the gamemode, I didn’t include them. What about the ones that can’t even play Conclave because of what life throws at them?

More overall players playing you wouldnt have to play only during prime time. 

 

If your internet is bad thats you to my knowledge PvP is dedicated not p2p

again if it’s a personal issue that lies within your internet connectivity. But from a serverside you can complain to DE not the servers.

 

youve all blew it for the switch community. All the mobbing I see telling people to never touch or interact with conclave worked. Now people activity avoid it 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

More overall players playing you wouldnt have to play only during prime time. 

 

If your internet is bad thats you to my knowledge PvP is dedicated not p2p

again if it’s a personal issue that lies within your internet connectivity. But from a serverside you can complain to DE not the servers.

 

youve all blew it for the switch community. All the mobbing I see telling people to never touch or interact with conclave worked. Now people activity avoid it 

So instead it would be more viable to blame the playerbase and complain to DE about player inaccessibility for the Conclave game mode?

Additionally, the idea of Universal Medallions affecting Conclave standing, however low its drop chance and whatever pittance of amount it offers, is still harmful to the Conclave rep grind?

[PatternistSlave]

On 2019-09-11 at 9:32 AM, Stormdragon said:

which shows no care for the game mode and only for its rewards, which is also a huge display of hypocrisy since it shows how a lot of PvE players feel entitled to have absolutely everything passively.

I'm supposed to respect the preferences of a half dozen players when they don't respect those of thousands?  What I'd call hypocrisy is complaining about an utter failure of a mode being disrespected while dismissing the entire actual game as "passive".

On 2019-09-11 at 9:32 AM, Stormdragon said:

you've been there in conclave

And got burnt out trying to grind standing in that nightmare of a mode.  I come back overjoyed to see a patch that would supplement the insane grind only to have it snatched away because your tiny community decided to be egomaniacal.  I think I'm justifiably angry and Conclave's removal has been long since justified.

[Pandabarrel]

On 2019-09-06 at 2:23 AM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

As someone who started the conclave grind and finished it I didn’t really think it was fair to me if you’re able to skip that. Nobody’s forcing you to play it..... but if you want those juicy sigils and Syandana you  gotta 🙂 

Just because you went through a S#&$ty grind doesn't mean everyone else should suffer, especially since you likely did it when Conclave had more of a population.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

That assumes it ever becomes an insurmountable problem that requires a revert.

There's a difference between "fun niche" and "pvp niche". One is fun, the other is an exercise in frustration. Just because they added one type, doesn't mean they're going to add another. Not when they're very aware of how the PvP is perceived.

IMO always prepare for the worst, especially when your content releases are often all over the place and you arent really sure where to stop. Heck unimeds may be just another addition with high hopes and ideas that gets completely neglected after the initial one we have now. It may also snowball. And with DE in mind I find it hard to believe that they'll land on something in between. We cant deny that DE at times are completely disjointed with their game. Just look at the Umbra Echo they planned. They wanted it to be a one time use item in order for people to go back and play disruption. Sure that all sounds like a good plan, but. Dont they think it would be enough of a revisit for people to fill out their roster with a permanent upgrade? I mean we are talking nearly 80(!) runs here just to deck out every frame, and that is in a scenario where each component would drop in every single run. In the end with drop rates added to the equation we'd look at several hundreds of runs to fill your roster with this specific upgrade. That gives me a disjointed sense between them and their project, it is like they dont realize how much the drop rates actually impact replayability of a certain mode.

As for fun, I think it is highly subjective. And so far the K-Drive hasnt been recieved all that well either.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

IMO always prepare for the worst, especially when your content releases are often all over the place and you arent really sure where to stop. Heck unimeds may be just another addition with high hopes and ideas that gets completely neglected after the initial one we have now. It may also snowball. And with DE in mind I find it hard to believe that they'll land on something in between.

These are slippery slopes, again. You aren't presenting anything that can actually be considered "bad" here, just that something "bad" might happen and therefore it shouldn't be done.

That's hardly an argument, and honestly sounds like... fear. What is there to actually worry about, here? Seriously. What is the risk?

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

As for fun, I think it is highly subjective. And so far the K-Drive hasnt been recieved all that well either.

Of course it's highly subjective. We can however look at the play statistics of the mode and... well, the statistics say "this isn't fun". There's absolutely a niche for it, and people absolutely are entitled to enjoy it if it's their cup of tea, but the majority do not find it fun, else they'd be playing it.

[PatternistSlave]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And so far the K-Drive hasnt been recieved all that well either.

I grinded (literally) out K drive standing.  Don't hear me whining about how unfair it is I had to do that and someone else might not.  Same with Simaris rep.  Same with mining.  And fishing.  And Fortuna rep.  And Cetus rep.  And umpteen mods.  And ephemera.  It's great when DE opens up multiple avenues to receive rewards because it doesn't force players to do things they dislike doing.

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

As for fun, I think it is highly subjective.

Can be objectively measured however.  When only one player finds something fun for every hundred thousand that don't?  It's not that fun.  If Conclave were the entire game it would be long gone.

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

These are slippery slopes, again. You aren't presenting anything that can actually be considered "bad" here, just that something "bad" might happen and therefore it shouldn't be done.

That's hardly an argument, and honestly sounds like... fear. What is there to actually worry about, here? Seriously. What is the risk?

Of course it's highly subjective. We can however look at the play statistics of the mode and... well, the statistics say "this isn't fun". There's absolutely a niche for it, and people absolutely are entitled to enjoy it if it's their cup of tea, but the majority do not find it fun, else they'd be playing it.

Bad would be if they become way too common i.e snowballed. Bad would also be if it promotes afk behavior or possible botting. Both the afk behavior and botting are already possible issues if the unimed becomes more useful, like being able to buy your way to PvP rewards. People are already afking and botting to skip the most trivial things, like leveling or having to participate in bounties.

And since the unimeds are as rare as they are, the people asking for them to be usable in conclave raise a suspecious eyebrow on my face. I doubt anyone will run that many disruptions in a legit way in order to get the rewards they want from PvP. And many of those that ask for this are people that straight up say they have no interest in PvP at all. So it will not be an item generally used to substitute for a game or two, it will likely be something that gets abused, which in turn makes other people suffer, either due to ending up with afkers or bots.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Bad would be if they become way too common i.e snowballed. Bad would also be if it promotes afk behavior or possible botting. Both the afk behavior and botting are already possible issues if the unimed becomes more useful, like being able to buy your way to PvP rewards. People are already afking and botting to skip the most trivial things, like leveling or having to participate in bounties.

These are things that can be worked around.

Justifying the decision to remove them because these things might come to pass, instead of letting it be beneficial to everyone and suggesting ways to stop these things coming to pass is... pretty poor from a quality standpoint.

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And since the unimeds are as rare as they are, the people asking for them to be usable in conclave raise a suspecious eyebrow on my face. I doubt anyone will run that many disruptions in a legit way in order to get the rewards they want from PvP. And many of those that ask for this are people that straight up say they have no interest in PvP at all. So it will not be an item generally used to substitute for a game or two, it will likely be something that gets abused, which in turn makes other people suffer, either due to ending up with afkers or bots.

I have already covered this.

[PatternistSlave]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Bad would also be if it promotes afk behavior or possible botting

Then Conclave should be removed entirely.  Are you really that ignorant of the rampant cheating that most players wanting Conclave standing do and have done?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Playing more of conclave during this controversy I’ve came to enjoy it more and more. Maybe because I love making people angry but also because while the skill needed is very high. I can say the gamemode isn’t perfect but it’s enjoyable if you’re a competitive person. Needs tweaks? YES of course it does but I can say it’s a pretty solid start for PvP. To make things clear I’m not here to crap on or be mean to the conclave community. I’m just trying to understand there is so much unnecessary hate directed to the conclave community. And also trying to explain it.

First hand lets talk about the devs.

DE admitting PvP was a failure left a big and bad stain on the view of conclave and lunario. Heck if your devs say this mode is a failure why play it? Why should I invest my time into something the devs themselves deem as a failure.  And why should I like something the devs obviously don’t care about.

 

De should’ve never said those words. 

(This is my personal opinion so please don’t take this to heart or offense)

but as a dev team they should’ve never uttered that or at least let that become public knowledge to people that they felt as such. 

If they wanted to move on from PvP they should’ve left it in the dust and removed it. And or set it as a timed even during the early stages to test the waters for feedback. But outing a part of your game was never the way to go from my eyes.

so what’s left? 

“Nobody plays conclave” it’s a ghost town unless you run across the players who actually enjoy pvp in warframe but that’s scarce. 

You're seen as toxic or a tryhard for being good in warframe PvP when in reality you’re no different then any other player.  

The lobbies are in between long wait times unless your playing with friends. 

You’re seen as not good or a terrible person for enjoying the gamemode.

 

Now lets talk about the current controversy with the universal medallions. With DE not allowing them to be used for conclave standing a large amount of the community is upset. Personally I find this odd because many of them simply didn’t care about conclave before hand nor the rewards. Actually up until this controversy I’ve yet to see people mention about wanting the conclave rewards as much as now. I’ve seen players belittle the conclave community who may I add a majority didn’t really mind the concept of UM until after DE reverted their decision because it seems silly to allow pve to earn PvP standing and many agreed on that note. Now where at this point where again people are spewing so much negativity against conclave making seem like it’s the worst thing ever. Telling people Therese no way to earn the syndicates items or these items are exclusive. When in reality every player from mr0+ can earn these items. They talk about wait times for Queue but instead of trying to get more people to play there actively fighting the community to  hurt activity in the gamemode. I’ve never in my life of gaming been apart of such s toxic community on the fourms and reddit coming even from dota lol smite r6s and much more. It’s sad to see the majority try to belittle a subsection of their own community because they’d rather “scrap a gamemode” then play it and try to lobby for more changes.  

[Walkampf]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

DE admitting PvP was a failure left a big and bad stain on the view of conclave and lunario. Heck if your devs say this mode is a failure why play it? Why should I invest my time into something the devs themselves deem as a failure.  And why should I like something the devs obviously don’t care about.

You are entirely missing the point. Just having a few dozen people legitimatly enjoy the mode does not make it a success, if you run a business. DE has to look at the numbers of the business side, since they have to look out for the lives of their employees and their families.

DE cannot go around and throw money at non-profitable cloud-castles if they don't want their emplyees children to go hungry to bed, jsut because the company doesn't make the money to keep the lights on.

You are absolutly unreaonable in continually pushing for a conclave rework. Try your hands in the job world yourself before you tell DE how to do their jobs.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

12 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You are entirely missing the point. Just having a few dozen people legitimatly enjoy the mode does not make it a success, if you run a business. DE has to look at the numbers of the business side, since they have to look out for the lives of their employees and their families.

DE cannot go around and throw money at non-profitable cloud-castles if they don't want their emplyees children to go hungry to bed, jsut because the company doesn't make the money to keep the lights on.

You are absolutly unreaonable in continually pushing for a conclave rework. Try your hands in the job world yourself before you tell DE how to do their jobs.

Yep DE has no reason to make conclave better or put good stuff behind it because no matter what they do it will never be a success. I tried my hand at it back in the day and literally nothing has changed aboout it since then! It would take years to get it in a fun state fun for the majority of players and it is never going to happen no matter how hard the 10 conclave sweaties beg. Especially when the game was advertised and is advertised as a PvE game with the conclave never being brought up ever!

It would be a lost cause and that guy on twitter made conclave and disruption even more upopoular in a single day so he is to blame for the increased hate conclave is receiving, De is as well for bending the knee to one person pitching a fit as well. But hey OP can hope they improve it... It'll just never have more then a very small percentage of the player base and make the main game content come slower bringing even more hate to it. The coffin has been closed even before they said it was a faliure and those who like to live with the dead are free to wait 30 minutes for one game of conclave XD

Edited September 12, 2019 by (XB1)Zweimander

[Uhkretor]

I get in, and the first thing I see?

... Another topic about Conclave... from the same guy?

 

... You've discussed this with many players , far too many times, on far too many topics, this week alone.

And now, I'm out. Have fun re-discussing this for the... how many times now? its so common that it actually makes Endo be more rare than Ephemera blueprints, that I have no reason to count them out anymore...

Edited September 12, 2019 by Uhkretor

[taiiat]

fwiw finding people to play Conclave with due to the regular Playerbase for it being limited, is made much easier by joining the Conclave Discord Server.
additionally the most active location for Conclave is definitely PC, during prime time hours (~1900hrs to ~2300hrs), in three timezone lumps of USWest, USEast, and EUWest.

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

I tried my hand at it back in the day and literally nothing has changed aboout it since then!

how long ago was that, and what sort of differences did you expect to see? there have been content additions to Conclave as well as Equipment is adjusted from time to time - but you can't actually play that added content, as i try to point out as often as possible because it's ridiculous that extra Gamemodes were made for Conclave but you literally cannot play them today.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

DE cannot go around and throw money at non-profitable cloud-castles

i agree, and your logic makes sense, however, i must point out: (Marketing Contest to help fund someone to take a trip into space).
:)

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb taiiat:

i agree, and your logic makes sense, however, i must point out: (Marketing Contest to help fund someone to take a trip into space).
🙂

They are sending one person into space. According to the information given directly to us, this costs them 250.000$. Comparing the cost of this with PR budgets of other similar playerbases, that's not all that much money. Take for example the 2013 reboot of Tomb Raider, which, despite selling very well, with 3.4 million copies in the first month, was called a financial failure by it's publisher, since it whould have to sold roughly twice the amount to make a profit. Just to give you a perspective of the numbers in videogame development.

[Krion112]

I vehemently disagree with just about everything you've written there.

First, while the 'failure' of Conclave does fall squarely on DE's own shoulders, it is because they are its designers and not because they claimed it failed. The majority of players knew it was bad before DE ever said anything. In fact, it's because it was bad that caused players to avoid it, which in turn caused DE to admit it was a failure, ie the opposite cause and effect of what you're claiming.

If anything, DE admitting it was a failure could possibly give hope that something will be done about it.

Second, Hardcore Conclave Players aren't seen as toxic for being good at Conclave, they're seen as toxic for the way they treat everyone else in regards to conclave. Offer any criticism against Conclave, legitimate or otherwise, and they'll come out of the wood work and deplatform your criticism, often on the basis of not being as good at Conclave as they are, which is easily the most arrogant thing I've ever encountered, being that, A, being good at a game doesn't qualify or unqualify a person for being a game designer or being allowed to offer criticism (get the guy in charge of balancing Conclave to fight a top Conclave player, and I guarantee he'll lose), and B, the validity of their own claims for being good at the game relies on how well designed the game is, and given Conclave is extremely flawed, I'd say even they have no say on their own skill, only on their own ability to manipulate issues in the design to forge victories they may very well not deserve.

TLDR; Conclave Players are labelled as toxic for their dismissive behaviors towards criticism, and not because they're good at the gamemode. Not all, of course, but enough so that they have the reputation for it. This is one of the major reasons, as well, that people aren't just putting up with playing Conclave and trying to offer feedback, and instead just want the mode removed.

And Third, and most importantly, Conclave has some really bad game-design. DE made too many inconsistent design alterations between PvE and PvP. Hardly anything relevant carries over, and the mode has been left incomplete, so there are many Weapons and Warframes that still cannot be used in the mode at all. And some Warframes in there have some completely different abilities unique to Conclave. It just doesn't complement Warframe's main game-play enough to justify it being in the game at all, which is the same problem with a lot of other, peripheral modes as well, like Archwing.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Krion112

[BiancaRoughfin]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Why conclave will never be seen in a good light 

Because it shouldnt have been born in the first place. [DE] only added Conclave to satisfy a very minor group of players who "Wanted to prove they had bigger brains than everyone" and im literally quoting the answer of a Conclave supporter who posted in the Forums 1~2 years ago.

Edited September 12, 2019 by BiancaRoughfin

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Then Conclave should be removed entirely.  Are you really that ignorant of the rampant cheating that most players wanting Conclave standing do and have done?

How does the comment you quoted lead you to the conclussion that I'm ignorant? Do I need to spell out every current issue before bringing a possible new one to the light? Or are you simply saying it is OK to have another afk/bot attractor since people already cheat like hell in conclave?

Your choice of words really make it unclear based on the part you quoted.

[taiiat]

17 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because it shouldnt have been born in the first place.

when it was introduced, i'd probably agree.

but nowadays with Parkour, it's one of the most unique PvP type experiences that exists in the entire Industry.

[(NSW)Fiftycentis]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Personally I find this odd because many of them simply didn’t care about conclave before hand nor the rewards. Actually up until this controversy I’ve yet to see people mention about wanting the conclave rewards as much as now.

It's just because before universal medallions one would simply renounce to the skins, but now that we have a way to get them without playing conclave, we want that way to earn them, you see no discussions about it because after years we know there's no point on bringing that topic up, and I think the same could be said for conclave, so many posts that bring no results