High Crit Secondaries Needs Help. Pistol Hunter's Munitions.

[(PSN)funboxer84]

We got amazing high Crit Secondaries like Kitguns, ect but they require too much Forma to be reliable and against high level enemies its damage potential falls off. To resolve this DE needs to release pistol version of the Hunter's Munition mod so we can build it to take advantage of the high Crit chance and require less Forma.

Example I have a high Crit Aksomati but it's not reliabe, but if we had Pistol Hunter's Munitions than it would. 

What do you think?

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

OP... and that would still require a lot of formas... probably the same amount.

Pistol builds take a lot of forma because of all the "mandatory" Primed mods we can use on them.

[(PSN)funboxer84]

Hunter's Munition Mod was criticized for primary as OP and yet it helped new and cheap players do better damage and yet its not perfect. For pistol it would be even better as we could enjoy our seconderies more when we are doing missions where we carry things and can't use primary or have a Focus Lens on secondary only. 

[Tiltskillet]

I doubt that happens, but it is fun to think about what I'd drop to fit a sidearm version of HM and on which weapons.

[Uhkretor]

... Considering that I use my secondary more frequently than my bow, I can tell you that... Secondaries aren't as strong as primaries.

What you're talking about is basically a primary weapon as a secondary weapon, in terms of power, with the supposed reliability that the Hunter Munitions mod provides. Secondary weapons take so many forma to become strong specifically because the mods required to make them like that consume a lot of mod capacity.

Sure, 30% chance of applying slash damage on critical sounds reliable, but the damage is based on the slash damage of a weapon. If the weapon has no slash damage, it will do the absolute minimal so that it isn't 0 damage. Now, considering how powerful a secondary weapon is, having a similar mod for secondaries doesn't improve higher reliability and/or efficiency. Its basically a wasted slot that could be used for something better, even more true if the weapon has no slash damage.

[Tiltskillet]

42 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Sure, 30% chance of applying slash damage on critical sounds reliable, but the damage is based on the slash damage of a weapon. If the weapon has no slash damage, it will do the absolute minimal so that it isn't 0 damage.

Slash procs scale off of base weapon damage, not slash damage specifically.  Which is why HM is fun on things like Telos B and Synapse.

[Peter]

When primaries get primed point strike.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

Nope, mod is broken and shouldn't exist in first place.

[Panser_Nes]

On 2019-09-07 at 12:41 AM, Uhkretor said:

Sure, 30% chance of applying slash damage on critical sounds reliable, but the damage is based on the slash damage of a weapon. If the weapon has no slash damage, it will do the absolute minimal so that it isn't 0 damage. Now, considering how powerful a secondary weapon is, having a similar mod for secondaries doesn't improve higher reliability and/or efficiency. Its basically a wasted slot that could be used for something better, even more true if the weapon has no slash damage.

Except that's not how Slash bleeds works at all. The Slash portion of the IPS only matters in terms of status chance weighting and dismembering. When talking Hunter Munitions, it has no effect.

When calculating bleed damage: (base damage x base damage mods x faction mods) x (0.35 x faction mods) = damage per bleed tick.

 

Note how the faction mod multiplier is taken into account twice. And that enemy armor and elemental mods are completely disregarded.

Meaning you can hit for 100 and still bleed for 10 000.

The 0.35 is the fixed bleed multiplier, and cannot be modified.

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, Panser_Nes said:

When calculating bleed damage: (base damage x base damage mods x faction mods) x (0.35 x faction mods) = damage per bleed tick.

 

Note how the faction mod multiplier is taken into account twice. And that enemy armor and elemental mods are completely disregarded.

Meaning you can hit for 100 and still bleed for 10 000.

The 0.35 is the fixed bleed multiplier, and cannot be modified.

... Interesting.

[Benour]

Mmmm my Euphona prime with CC/CD/Dmg/- riven would love such thing 😆

Or imagine catchmoon with such riven doing insane bleeds in aoe, yummi...

[Walkampf]

I dislike the thought of having a Hunters munition variant for secondaries.

I prefer the idea of having more destinction between primary and secondary weapons.

[Xzorn]

I think what you mean is  "No status chance Pistols need help".

In terms of scaling Hunter's doesn't actually do much. If a weapon relies on Hunter's to deal with Armor then it's not going to scale well regardless. Sure it helps with low level enemies but that's where I'm always saying it's not the armor scaling you feel as enemies scale. It's the Raw Health.

There are exceptions but generally Hunter's works great at lvl 100 and falls on it's face by lvl 300; which proves that point. On a 100% Crit weapons Hunters is comparatively just an Elemental mod that states +74% Finisher Damage over 6 seconds. If the weapon can't deal with armor then that's literally your total damage.

Personally I just avoid such weapons against armor. Including Primaries.

[George_PPS]

12 hours ago, (PS4)cdzbrbr said:

Nope, mod is broken and shouldn't exist in first place.

Take it out from all your builds of all primaries. It won’t even bother you anyone. Rest of us enjoy it. 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

complaining weapons dont work past level 100 isnt going to get the devs to listen to u, they think high level is 60, and there is no content in the game thats ment to have u go past 150 anyways

Edited September 9, 2019 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[000l000]

Il y a 12 heures, Xzorn a dit :

I think what you mean is  "No status chance Pistols need help".

Not sure about the status hype many people seem to have here. Last time i was killing high level Grineers it was with a Paracesis (lots of combo, tons of critical) i wasn't stripping armor cause i was oneshoting everything. Armor isn't that much of an issue when you're dealing high damage red criticals.

On the other hand status only weapons aren't necessarily performing well cause their damages aren't scaling so you'll always deal the same ridiculous amount of damage. Slash or poison are pointless options cause their damages won't be buffed either. The only thing they're good at is to strip armors but what next ? Even without armor you still need to deal huge damage to kill high level enemies. And status weapons basically suck at that. I've tried three different options with my Braton prime once (critical, status and hybrid), and status was always performing worse - by far especially because arcanes and kavat can buff your critical so you'll always miss lots of damage as a whole, nothing helps with status only.

What's actually working is high fire rate weapons with enough damage and high critical along with a few status, enough to apply a few corrosive procs, not much but enough to weaken your target. Red crits headshots are a really different category than white damages and until damage 2.0 fix that, we're stuck with a really unbalanced damage mechanics.

Not sure people craft some full status kitguns tbh, it's a good hint.

Edited September 10, 2019 by 000l000

[Xzorn]

42 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

-snip-

 

What are you hitting?

Status goes from helpful to vital against Armor as enemies scale while it's still quite good on the right weapon against unarmored.

If you feel Parcesis is effective it's likely you're just doing overkill damage which most players are doing. Power Creep does that which is why they can't tell the difference between armor scaling causing problems and health scaling. This game has been at lvl 80-100 for almost 6 years now and we do x100 the damage. Obviously unless people fight higher level enemies important aspects of the damage system aren't going to feel important because players are just forcing their way through the rules at this point.

In a nutshell that's why the game has become a snooze for any theory crafter. Unless you want to sit in a mission for 3h+ you can pretty much do everything wrong or without any mods on at all and finish all the content in the game. I've done it before just as mockery. There's no point in primed mods, Rivens or any of that based on DE's current game play scheme. It's pointless bait to waste your time investing to go nowhere.

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

I absolutely do not want this. I don’t like hunter munitions as is because it’s basically a mandatory mod on any high crit primaries. I don’t like mandatory mods, I don’t like using the same freaking build for all my weapons just because it’s the best option by a huge margin.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2019-09-06 at 7:41 PM, Uhkretor said:

... Considering that I use my secondary more frequently than my bow, I can tell you that... Secondaries aren't as strong as primaries.

What you're talking about is basically a primary weapon as a secondary weapon, in terms of power, with the supposed reliability that the Hunter Munitions mod provides. Secondary weapons take so many forma to become strong specifically because the mods required to make them like that consume a lot of mod capacity.

Sure, 30% chance of applying slash damage on critical sounds reliable, but the damage is based on the slash damage of a weapon. If the weapon has no slash damage, it will do the absolute minimal so that it isn't 0 damage. Now, considering how powerful a secondary weapon is, having a similar mod for secondaries doesn't improve higher reliability and/or efficiency. Its basically a wasted slot that could be used for something better, even more true if the weapon has no slash damage.

Just to correct you, slash damage is based on 35% of the TOTAL damage you CAUSED (yes, after your damage goes through enemies defense, that in particular is something a lot of people don't know). 

So the weapon doesn't need slash for HM to be good.

Edited September 11, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Critical-built secondary weapons don't need a 'Hunter Munitions' type mod to be viable at level 100, and really it's only select Grineer units (Bombard, Napalm, Gunner) who present a noteworthy threat that the secondary weapon will have potential issues with.

[(NSW)Badger]

Honestly the side-effect such a mod would have for Peacemakers leads me to believe that folks will be as salty about Mesa as they are currently about Saryn. 

[Cibyllae]

Something tells me you want this for Mesa's regulators and not your pistols.

[Cibyllae]

On 2019-09-11 at 1:54 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Just to correct you, slash damage is based on 35% of the TOTAL damage you CAUSED (yes, after your damage goes through enemies defense, that in particular is something a lot of people don't know).

The slash damage is actually calculated before your damage is affected by enemy armor and resistances.