Am I the only one mad about the Saturn Six Armor Returning?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

11 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

As a player who earned the Wolf Armour in Season 1 and uses it on Frost, I find implications of a "slap in the face" to be a slap in my face. In other words - I find this to be nonsense. I earned the Wolf Armour months ago, I've been using it for months, that was my reward. If other people gain it now, good - the more people who get to enjoy the same stuff I have, the better. If other people gain it easier than I did, also good - Nightwave Season 1 was a S#&$show which I don't want anyone else to have to go through. The only value in exclusivity is envy, and I have no respect for that particular selling point.

I never said what you are implying, and that's a heavy distortion of my words, if read carefully.

What I said was that since the S1 rewards are "Rank Rewards" it means players who have it already have basically an "empty slot". Not just that, that "empty slot" also represents a second armor that we cannot delete. And guess what, when DE does let us delete it it'll mess up half the frames that had the armor equipped, just like what happens with sold identical mods.

So no, I have not the slightest issue with other players having the S1 items, as I don't care for exclusiveness. I'm even happy because my girlfriend can earn it now since she was unable to in S1. But it didn't need to be at the cost of my own rewards, since those same rewards could have been presented in other viable ways that did not alienate the players who already had them.

Edited October 25, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 2019-10-24 at 5:40 PM, Carnage2K4 said:

I don't think we should see Nightwave rewards return for at least a year after that nightwave ends.

As simple as this is, the people that missed out would riot... But it's the right thing to do

[Im_a_Turtle]

Why are people complaining about free stuff again?

[FrostDragoon]

2 minutes ago, Im_a_Turtle said:

Why are people complaining about free stuff again?

"Free" in what sense? You still have to spend time to earn it. Maybe you don't understand the perspective, so you don't understand the complaint? Money isn't the only thing that something can cost or be spent.

[Im_a_Turtle]

It's still free.

[kapn655321]

16 hours ago, --CV--Agilis said:

I'm mad about how they did.

That's fair. I'd been thinking about that more today.
Had there been some system in place to give an alternate reward, there'd be no concerns.
Hopefully this is corrected in time.

[FrostDragoon]

2 hours ago, Im_a_Turtle said:

It's still free.

Only by a bad definition. It's regrettable that you either refuse or are unable to see why it would make people upset, or that you're just being dismissive. In any case, you aren't making any good points by that position.

[Steel_Rook]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

So no, I have not the slightest issue with other players having the S1 items, as I don't care for exclusiveness. I'm even happy because my girlfriend can earn it now since she was unable to in S1. But it didn't need to be at the cost of my own rewards, since those same rewards could have been presented in other viable ways that did not alienate the players who already had them.

I may have misunderstood, then. The way you phrased it, it sounded like you were equivocating "people who have the items being hurt" with "the items being available again." There are a number of suggestions on the forums for compensating people for duplicates like the Wolf Armour and other such cosmetics that I fully agree with.

With all of that said...

I don't think you can talk about "alienating" player in this case. There are no rewards in Nightwave Intermission 2 that you can't have due to your activity in Season 1. There are rewards you already have, yes, but they aren't blocking other rewards that you're not getting because there are no other rewards you're not getting. The system doesn't have to be designed in such a way as to give you personally something you personally have a use for on every level, so phrasing criticism from the perspective of being robbed of status quo is... I'm not going to say "disingenuous" because I do believe you're arguing in good faith, but let's go with "unfounded." The Intermission's rewards are balanced against each other, not against whether a player is a veteran or not, similarly to how Baro's inventory doesn't care what each individual player has already purchased from him.

I agree with you that having what amounts to "skipped ranks" in Nightwave is not ideal and I do agree - as stated above - that some form of duplicate compensation is in order. Even the worst of P2W loot box mobile games give you a token bit of currency or progression back for duplicates. It's just I'd strongly suggest arguing from the perspective of improving the system, rather than inferring a "slap in the face" which needs to be fixed. Because when you go down the "slap in the face" route, you're going to get a lot of "NO U!" responses.

[MagPrime]

On 2019-10-24 at 8:23 AM, --CV--Agilis said:

Just fair warning, you're about to hear a small rant about your stereotypical veteran, but HOLY HELL, please stop bringing back cosmetics. Mods and weapons, I can completely understand. But cosmetics?! You know how much of a grind the first Nightwave was? I spent hours grinding out that armor, literally some challenges taking hours to complete. Then once I finally got to the part where I get the armor, dear God, that felt great. And then, I thought I had a cool armor set to show off my work... Oh but no, you got all those whiners who wanted it back, and now all they gotta do is get it through this easy as hell version of Nightwave. Now I might be the only one who even cares, but it just sucks to know that the grind I went through was all just a big fat waste of time, because now anyone can get it with ease.

This isn't the first time it's happened, either. Anyone remember The Pacifism Defect tactical alert? It was by far, besides that most recent one for the Orb Vallis, just stupid time consuming. But guess what? I still finished it and got the Harkonar Wraith armor set and Syandana. Hell, I've still got the messages in my Inbox from Cressa Tal signifying I did. But then, Mr. Ki'Teer comes around, and gives it out for mere Ducats and Credits to any ole' chap that just so happens to have some. As I said earlier, I do not mind the addition of the exclusive Vandal weapons or whatever else being re-released, as they are something that actually effects gameplay, but cosmetics are something that DOESN'T.

So yeah, I'm just your old grumpy veteran and everyone is just gonna say "nobody cares" or "it's for the players that didn't have the chance." You know what? I come from a place where your cosmetics symbolized a whole lot more than a fancy showoff, but an actual achievement that people would admire and then inspire them to become better or something else along those lines. Because, as one wise man once said, once everyone is super, nobody is super.

DE has been trying to avoid pure exclusives, so unless they explicitly state it will never return, expect it to return*.

As to my effort on the grind to get the items being lessened by someone else getting them easier, later on, eh.  It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't view those items as something to rub other players noses in.  I got them because I wanted them and I enjoy them, and I also enjoy the feeling of accomplishment from getting them.  Other people don't come into that consideration.

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by MagPrime
*at some, undetermined point in the future.

[FrostDragoon]

9 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

As to my effort on the grind to get the items being lessened by someone else getting them easier, later on, eh.  It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't view those items as something to rub other players noses in.  I got them because I wanted them and I enjoy them, and I also enjoy the feeling of accomplishment from getting them.  Other people don't come into that consideration.

This is precisely the correct attitude to have about it.

It's fine to also say that the duplicate rewards should made into extra cred for players who already own it, but the people who complain about others getting something they have, or trying to treat that something as a status symbol of some kind, well... they don't really have any real ground to stand on.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

This is precisely the correct attitude to have about it.

It's fine to also say that the duplicate rewards should made into extra cred for players who already own it, but the people who complain about others getting something they have, or trying to treat that something as a status symbol of some kind, well... they don't really have any real ground to stand on.

Some extra Ducats or NW creds would be nice for the extra cosmetics, honestly.  I have 0 use for another Wolf Syandana or Eidolon Ephemera.

[QueenKharn]

Hard shrug from me.

[Im_a_Turtle]

16 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Only by a bad definition. It's regrettable that you either refuse or are unable to see why it would make people upset, or that you're just being dismissive. In any case, you aren't making any good points by that position.

It doesn't cost any ingame currency or any real currency. Explain to me how playing the game as it was intended considered costly in any way beyond time consuming? All i'm seeing are people complaining about their free saturn six armor isn't as exclusive as they want it, which i find quite ridiculous as it's apart of nightwave missions and everyone is going to have everything that nightwave offers in a span of two years or so. It's free content on a free to play game. The devs are probably looking at this thread like "What more do these people want!?"

Edited October 27, 2019 by Im_a_Turtle

[FrostDragoon]

13 minutes ago, Im_a_Turtle said:

It doesn't cost any ingame currency or any real currency. Explain to me how playing the game as it was intended considered costly in any way beyond time consuming? All i'm seeing are people complaining about their free saturn six armor isn't as exclusive as they want it, which i find quite ridiculous as it's apart of nightwave missions and everyone is going to have everything that nightwave offers in a span of two years or so. It's free content on a free to play game. The devs are probably looking at this thread like "What more do these people want!?"

Time is a hefty cost, don't fool yourself. However, I'm with you that people who expected it to be exclusive are just being silly or egotistical. The ones with a real argument are the ones that already have those cosmetics and NW offers nothing else in those slots. Even though you could say, from a technical standpoint, that they aren't losing anything, they still feel cheated because each tier is supposed to have a reward. Duplicate cosmetics are effectively the same as nothing.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-10-25 at 7:57 AM, Steel_Rook said:

As a player who earned the Wolf Armour in Season 1 and uses it on Frost, I find implications of a "slap in the face" to be a slap in my face. In other words - I find this to be nonsense. I earned the Wolf Armour months ago, I've been using it for months, that was my reward. If other people gain it now, good - the more people who get to enjoy the same stuff I have, the better. If other people gain it easier than I did, also good - Nightwave Season 1 was a S#&$show which I don't want anyone else to have to go through. The only value in exclusivity is envy, and I have no respect for that particular selling point.

☝️ That's ridiculously well said. 

The only difference is that we did slog through season 1. I didn't find it anywhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. It was something to do, and we could each decide how we felt about it. 

The newbs getting the rewards now, would be missing out on that experience, and that's something I would have preferred they got. 

[FrostDragoon]

4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The newbs getting the rewards now, would be missing out on that experience, and that's something I would have preferred they got. 

Goes back to the old "I suffered through a flawed implementation, so should you" mentality.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

Earnable non-prime cosmetics will likely never be locked to a 1-time event. DE said the Saturn Six set would return but they weren't for sure how it would.

Now if only Pakal armor wasn't bundle-locked... But I digress.

You got your armor by simply playing while others have to wait and pay in prime parts. That's fair. That being said I don't think anyone should get mad that a meh set of armor returns. You can say you got it on the first NW. Not everyone can say that. The sledge is also a good indicator. It's certainly a pain to get now compared to the 48 hour tactical that allowed for easy farming. 

[Caidezes]

Other than elitism, no one has a valid reason to be upset about old rewards returning. Especially since they were never going to be exclusive in the first place.

The only thing I can think of that's a genuine downside is the duplicate rewards issue for people who already have them. They should get credits, endo, or kuva as replacement rewards instead.

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Caidezes said:

Other than elitism, no one has a valid reason to be upset about old rewards returning. Especially since they were never going to be exclusive in the first place.

The only thing I can think of that's a genuine downside is the duplicate rewards issue for people who already have them. They should get credits, endo, or kuva as replacement rewards instead.

The idea of goods are `free`, implies they are basically given out with no technical cost, meaning even having to pay 1 credit for a color palette, is technically still not free, on top of the fact you can only get said `free item` in a limited time period. The same applies to nightwave where we have to intentionally do content in a different way then normal to obtain said things. If the nightwave challenges were generalized so we simply got them completed as we do things as normal, such as collect X endo, collect X resources, Kill X enemies, nothing as specific as kill them with X weapon or kill them with X elemental, then it could reach that point of being `free` since it would not interfere with how we normally play. Course that is a lie in itself since we are basically trying to play a game longer, past the satisfaction point because we are chasing X goodies in a reward table.

If i had to go back to Honkai impact 3rd`s own season `battle pass`, despite the fact plenty of things could be considered useless to me, i can still sell things like EXP chips(despite having all my characters at max level) for coins which i could then use to buy exp materials for equipment instead or to level said gear or skills of the characters, the point is: Everything in that game`s battle pass system has value.

The differences again, included in warframe`s version of a battle pass has:

1. Cosmetic items cannot be scrapped for anything, not even credits, so we can at least get rid of extra duplicates flooding our inventory screen, which i have duplicates of event only twitch drop syandanas and its annoying i can`t get rid of the 2nd copy still.
2. Despite having Daily standing gains, at best you can only get roughly 3, maybe 4 rank ups a week. especially when it applies to intermissions. Meaning when 1/6th (aka 5 of the reward slots) are just repeat slots for items you likely own or better yet: `things that have zero capability of being used aka what will happen if mods like Napalm grenades is not able to be put in the new weapon exilus mod slot`, Well its basically a bad decision when D.E. has us spend a good chunk of our grind trying to get past an annoying thing.
3. Honestly, did D.E. really need to make intermissions last 30 rank ups all of a sudden with Intermission II when we are already on a tight leash with no bonus ways to get standing like season 2 and 1 had? It should of been 15 ranks and if they had to push those extra 15, make them all past 15, only give intermission creds which could then be used as `catch up creds` for anyone who missed out on `season 1 and season 2`, to get what they want from the cred offerings shop. If D.E. is worried about people crying later, they could easily PUT A DANG PREVIOUS NIGHTWAVE SPECIAL REWARDS PAGE AS THE DEFAULT CRED OFFERINGS TAB TO SHOW UP FIRST TO RESOLVE THAT, That way, those who are being declared `elitists` only really need to do the first 15 rank ups and can finish off early, unless they want to still grind the extra 15 ranks to pick up more potatoes in preparation for Old Blood which is going to have plenty of people wanting kuva variants on thar favorite grineer weapons.

To the white knighters, stop trying to defend bad decision design, instead spend the time voicing your concerns on why more thinking was not done into the nightwave `battle pass`, since one thing that has been quite common on D.E. i have noticed quite recently, is either just popping new things here and there and either next to or little expansion on it(such as re-polishing the content on player feedback to address critical issues), cramming something into a annoying grind to get things, especially ones we would need large amounts of them. Plus a very long wait on what can be seen as the most simple of fixes that could be done on things as ridiculous as giving us extra config slots or weapon exilus mod slots, but having to create a completely new item behind a huge grind wall to even get.

Oh plus the fact we have yet to get Relics improved despite us now having a even worst then Axi relic farm in the form of Requiem Relics & the fact Sortie has yet to be improved upon, such as how over half the reward table goods can be gotten in abundance thru plenty of other content now.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Avienas

[Alpha56]

Replace rank 28 and 30 rewards (Saturn six cosmetics) by Umbra forma for the people that earned it in S1.

Problem solve.

[Gentleman_Bird]

I'm fine with NW rewards returning, exclusivity and FOMO sucks. Though I would like it if we got an alternate reward if we already have the initial reward.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

DE said thee rewards would come back before Nightwave was even released...

So yeah, you probably are the only one who's mad.

Didn't think it'd return so soon though lol. I was at 29 last time, and had a camping trip to go to. Glad I have another opportunity.

[Azrael_V]

Ok the Saturn Six cosmetics are 2 ranks out of 30. The glass looks plenty full to me. 

[papry]

il y a 34 minutes, Azrael_V a dit :

Ok the Saturn Six cosmetics are 2 ranks out of 30. The glass looks plenty full to me. 

That's completely false, you are speaking without any idea :

Rank 8 : wolf salute

Rank 13 : napalm grenade

Rank 15 : eidolon ephemera

Rank 18 : K drive sticker

Rank 19 : liset skin

Rank 20 : wild frenzy

rank 28 ; saturn six synadana

Rank 30 : saturn six armor

That's 8 rank out of 30 that duplicate not 2.

 

 

[Azrael_V]

1 hour ago, papry said:

That's completely false, you are speaking without any idea :

Rank 8 : wolf salute

Rank 13 : napalm grenade

Rank 15 : eidolon ephemera

Rank 18 : K drive sticker

Rank 19 : liset skin

Rank 20 : wild frenzy

rank 28 ; saturn six synadana

Rank 30 : saturn six armor

That's 8 rank out of 30 that duplicate not 2.

 

 

Without any idea? I happen to have completed both Season 1&2. Read the Title and the post. The OP is emphasizing the Saturn Six Armor and the Syandana. Those are only 2 Ranks.  If you wanna be technical and include the other miscellaneous stuff well 8 out of 30 is not bad either. If you see it as some sort of injustice then its on you.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Azrael_V