(PC) Melee Phase 2: STATS Feedback

[Telfaroth]

Many elemental based weapon have now phyiscal damage also:

I have look at weapons that had pure elemtal damage. Now, some of them provide also physical damage. Why not?

But, most of them provide less elemtal damage than physical. So, the elemtal damage become a secondary damage type.

Dark dagger, dark sword, split sword become now puncture weapons first. But there is also double Ichor. 

Others weapons are more elemeta damage event if thay are no longer the main status chance proc.

It was interesting to have such weapon that provide maintly elemental damage and elemental proc status

I would raser perfer whose weapons have 4x or more elemental damages that the best physical one so that it will continue to provide a status chance first from this element.

The only exception are viral element. That don't need a frequent status proc.

 

For example; dark split sword was perharps the best dual wepons before event if it had only elemtal damage based on radiation.

You can add other element. You where sure that element proc frequently. In other hand; the number of status proc where very limited.

Now; you can more type of status type; this is better (except that Condition Overload is less interesting); but elemtal damage is too low to make this still weapons particular. 

Where are other parameter of the melee 3.0 I not understand in this choice.

But, these dark weapons seems to be no longer fun and they are others interesting puncture weapons.

 

Please DE, review the amount of elemental damage against the physical so that status proc maintly continue to be elemtal weapons first (or closer) .

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Telfaroth

[HolyDemon00]

Can the stance combo screen shows the forced proc and damage multiplier of each combo? Testing and keeping track of the effect and damage of each stance's combo is exhausting.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Addendum, with regards to Condition Overload it is in my utmost and trusted belief that we need to revisit the algorithm again. I’ve been testing melee all day today and it was very exhausting keeping track which weapons suffered the most to the Condition Overload nerf and stance combo reworks.

Conclusion: All status melee (with the exception of the Caustacyst) fell behind on dps. Lesion is no longer considered solely due to the buff to its crit chance to 15% - crit is viable for any weapon that has undergone that change and crit scales better than status in long-term combat.

Blood Rush and Gladiator mods not interacting with crit chance mods has made some melee suffer. If the melee’s base crit chance isn’t at least 25%, crit scaling becomes overly cumbersome.

The worst offenders to these changes are Exalted Melee. Gladiator mods barely assisted in boosting crit scaling for Exalted Melee as a stat-stick prior to the existence of Sacrificial Steel’s introduction to the Warframe-verse, and for a time Sacrificial Steel was able to boost dps somewhat well to follow behind Blood Rush. Now that that interaction has been cut and made independent of one another, Exalted Melee is left in a vast and dark situation like how they were prior to the Acolyte mods entry into Warframe (barely used except for the memes).

DE, I’ve seen this game go up and down since before the end of the Volt Prime Access and the start of the Ash Prime Access in 2015. I’ve seen and witnessed every little small detail that goes through this game. I can safely say that, even with melee reworked to have different inputs on stance combos, modding melee has regressed back to how it was back in melee 1.0. We’ve gone full circle and pretty much defenestrated what could have been the success of Acolyte mods and melee modding then after, and came  back to modding for heavy attacks and modding with only an attention to base crit in mind.

This has to stop. We’ve reached a point of creative gameplay and build diversity with Acolyte mods and Condition Overload that it made melee unique, and now it’s an after thought. What could have been a salvageable reuse of the old algorithm with lower multipliers has been left with heavy handed nerfs that is comparable to modding in melee 1.0. From all of my tests today and doing the math on paper and in my head, I just couldn’t stop thinking about how I was left using a Dark Dagger or a Mire at Old Draco, using a Prolonged Paralysis Valkyr, and just spamming melee for the sake of only proc’ing the Syndicate effect that came with their respective Syndicate augment. And it almost felt like I was playing melee just like how it was 4 years ago: unintuitive, uncreative, modding just to get by.

DE, I implore you, please take a look again (at the very least) at Condition Overload and reconsider its algorithm as its own multiplier that’s not additive to Pressure Point in damage calculation. Please consider how crit chance should be involved in melee and its interaction with Blood Rush and Gladiator mods to enhance crit, rather than become dissociative with one another and creating a dichotomy where crit is segregated to combo attacks or specialization into heavy attack only builds.

This is quite literally a hot mess and I’m just too flustered to think any more on the state of melee and its current direction, with all due fairness.

[sitfesz]

Polearms suffered too much from melee range stat changes and it's completely unfair that the average polearm have 3 range, while most swords/dual swords have 2.5 and daggers have 1.75, which is more than half of polearms range.

Then there are heavy blades, hammers and scythes averaging between 3 - 2.8 range. The stances of these weapons now aren't that immobile and the attack speed difference is not that much to justify this similarity in base range. These even have some extra, like built in slam attack in a stance.

Polearms need to have more base range to make up for the weaknesses in other stats compared to other weapons.

[Telfaroth]

Status based wepons agains critical based ones: Equilibrium is broken.

 

Before; I am used to choose a critical weapon for melee oriented game play because Blood rush will helped me to provide more damage. I choose a status oriented for power oriented warframe because condition overload gave them a lot of damage quickly for a short fight.

When you want to play a status oriented weapon; you need to trigger a status first before being efficient.  You used to have (Primed) Fury mod because Berserk mod is not enough efficiant. Strike quicker+status chance was a way to damage a lot.

Now; Critical oriented weapons have too much avantage agains status oriented one. Even if you don't wanted; maintain a hugue critical multiplicator seems to be better than trigger a heavy attack. Critical oriented damage provide much more damage with a multiplicator ratio and berserk give more speed.

So, a status oriented weapons need also to add critical mods now. Berserk will replace Prime Fury in most of the case but whose weapons will triggered berserk later.  This make the status oriented less interesting. Status oriented builds used to need one mod less than a critical oriented builds. It was a way to add a quality life mod like Healing return or Guadian derision. These mod will be less and less choosen because the moding is more restricted to have an efficient weapon.

The new Condition overload give a lot of damage but require many strike on each new  target. There are no possibility to proc multiple status in one strike (except with the Lession). So, even if status oriented weapon may provide similar damage to a single target; it is not true in a mission; a status oriented weapon need to strike many time each targets where a critial oriented weapon strike one time and strike more time.

if in one hand; you have give us a better large choose efficient of melee weapon with the rebalance of them; in the other hand you have give too much avantages to critical oriented weapons agains status oriented one by now.

FInally:

1-There is no longer easy versatile weapon for non-melee warframe.

2- A better attack speed for status oriented weapons may be great (or/and nerf berserk mod) ?

3- Be able to proc multiple status on a target will boost the new Condition overload (that is limited to 3 differents status) with the help of Weeping Wounds mod?

4-Status weapon seems to be a good candidate for heavy weapon attacks. Nevertheless; critical oriented weapon are by now the gods. You have enhance True Steel. I would have nerf Blood rush instead even if I like a lot to play with it because it make heavy attack and status oriented weapons less interesting/efficient. 

5-Equilibrium between to all kinds of weapons and modding should be review (again) so that diversity still exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Telfaroth

[Beefle]

I wanna point out a few issues with heavy blades.

Gram Prime's crit.-/status chance are both 32%. Galatine Prime's and War's crit-./status chance is 26%. I think crit.- and status chance being equal is ok for one, but not all three of them. You did a good job on Paracesis (e.g.).

War is still a discount Galatine Prime. It is objectively worse and I think this melee rework is here to fix this once and for all. This issue could be fixed by

1. increasing War's damage and making it heavily slash focused (it is an energy blade. It should cut enemies, like pre-disney light sabers used to).
2. increasing War's crit. chance/multiplier even further (even though i don't think only changing this would be enough).
3. increasing War's Riven disposition                            (even though i don't think only changing this would be enough).
4. changing War's damage to Tau-damage?

Please adress (at least) War in an upcoming hotfix. Seeing it in this miserable state is getting increasingly tiring.

[SlipkNinja]

Zenistar utility is completely bad now, make the default time 45 seconds again and range aswell. The ideia of you being FORCED to do combos just to use it as utility completely kills the wepon, pepole that don't like to use melee get affected by this too, because 10 seconds is nothing.

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-11-17 at 1:41 PM, Andele3025 said:

CO wasnt op because of its calculation, but because of it multiplying itself/exponentially scaling like armor does for EHP. Without self-scaling it would have been, while strong, reasonable. Multi status per hit wouldnt solve anything other than make guns even better.

"CO wasnt op because of its calculation, but because of it multiplying itself/exponentially" 

Yes, and multiplying itself exponentially was ALSO part of its calculation. So what you're saying is contradicting itself.

 

And Yeah, having multiple status procs "per hit" would solve alot actually. Because what i'm suggesting is to let MELEE weapons have multi-status procs. That means one swing by itself could have C.O. proc multiple times. 

And even if they also applied multi-status procs for guns, so what? It doesn't mean that it's removing melee from being useful. Melee STILL does more damage than primary weapons, as it is. 

 

On 2019-11-17 at 1:41 PM, Andele3025 said:

On 2019-11-17 at 11:56 AM, Dragazer said:

Sacrificial steel is not a "non-choice".

It is, because its always worse than Blood Rush on normal builds thus will never be used on them and is only worth the slot on initial combo counter builds which dont need crit help.

You know crit mods were buffed, right? If you think it's a non-choice, then maybe you haven't read the stats yet. Sacrificial pressure makes Heavy attack builds more viable, and it makes blood rush require less stacks to reach red crits, for combo builds. In fact, sacrificial steel is essentially 4-5 stacks of blood rush. There's definitely an argument for using it, when it essentially guarantees that you'll ALWAYS be getting a crit. 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Andele3025]

14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

"CO wasnt op because of its calculation, but because of it multiplying itself/exponentially" 

Yes, and multiplying itself exponentially was ALSO part of its calculation. So what you're saying is contradicting itself.

No, its part of the calculation was as a god damn end multiplier. It ignoring its own prior multiplications/its position in the calculation thus exponentially stacking was merely sloppy programming.

14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

And Yeah, having multiple status procs "per hit" would solve alot actually. Because what i'm suggesting is to let MELEE weapons have multi-status procs. That means one swing by itself could have C.O. proc multiple times. 

No it wouldnt. Base damage is still base damage. This does mean people using grineer bane mods.

14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

And even if they also applied multi-status procs for guns, so what? It doesn't mean that it's removing melee from being useful. Melee STILL does more damage than primary weapons, as it is. 

No it doesnt.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

please adjust exalted melees the whole phase 2 kinda killed them to be weaker then regular melees due to exclusion of mods and meh stances that we cant change 

on another note really dislike lifestrike on heavy attack, and wish it was better implemented as i hate the mod cost healing return forces on builds and its lack luster return 

[Xaero]

Exalted Blade feels completely useless. Can the stats buff help? Not sure.

Pros:

- waves (which don't even add to combo counter).

Cons:

- status-oriented (and status is now inferior to crits);

- stance gives no capacity;

- limited access to mods;

- drains energy;

- doesn't damage arbitration drones.

With how comfortable melee in general feels to play now, there's literally nothing Exalted Blade could offer to make it worth using over regular melee weapon. So we have yet another dead ability on Excalibur.

My suggestion: slightly rework the concept of Exalted Blade. Give it Garuda Talons treatment: EB will only be used when no melee weapon is equipped. Otherwise, Excalibur's ultimate buffs equipped melee weapon stats, such as damage, range and speed. Also, it should give wave projectiles to sword and nikana weapons. And default EB should be at least more or less equal to other melee weapons, give it access to all melee mods and make its stance offer additional capacity.

IMO it's the best thing that can be done to Excal's ultimate. Not only it solves the problem of dead weapon/ability, but also doesn't make The Sacrifice quest's cutscenes or new intro irrelevant (since default EB stays).

And I'd like to point out that official Warframe comics actually use the concept of turning equipped melee weapon into Exalted weapon.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Xaero

[Serialkillerwhale]

I feel as if Heavy Weapons have, once again, been given the short end of the stick.

Compare the following

Spoiler

 

Heavy Blades: Follow through of 0.6

Gram Prime: Used to be 180, now 300 damage.
Galatine Prime: 165, 280
Scindo Prime: 130, 250

Hammers: Follow through of 0.6

Fragor Prime: 130, 270

 

To this
 

Spoiler

 

Tekko Prime: 56, 180

Kogake Prime: 70, 242
 

Nikanas: Follow through of 0.7

Nikana Prime: 95. 198

 

Why is it, that large, slow, two-handed weapons have barely any reach advantage over much faster weapons? What justifies how none of these heavy weapons even do enough damage to overcome a 2.0 combo multiplier? What is the reason you would even use these weapons anymore?

As such, I propose the following.
 

1. Atleast a 2.5x multiplier, to compensate for the loss of the old combo system
2. Gram, Scindo, and Galatine Prime need prime passive effects.
3. Heavy Blades as  a whole should have anywhere from 0.75 to 0.9 follow-through to fit the thematics of being capable of cleaving through large crowds. At the absolute least they should be definitely better than a damned Katana at it.

• Gram: 255 Damage (Was 100)
• Scindo: 255 Damage (Was 100)
• DSS: 260 Damage (Was 90)
• Scindo Prime: 330 Damage (Was 130) Gains +45 Combo counter for performing Ground FInishers (Executioner's weapon)
• War: 340 Damage (Was 140)
• Galatine Prime: 425 Damage (Was 165): Heavy Attacks deal massive damage (4000 Baseline) with extended range, but take longer to charge.
• Gram Prime: 450 Damage (Was 180): Slams have increased radius, ragdoll.
•  
• Fragor: 275 Damage (Was 115)
• Magistar: 240 Damage (Was 80)
• Jat Kittag 300 Damage (Was 130)
• Sibear: 330 Damage (Was 130)
• Heliocor: 330 Damage (Was 140)
• Sancti Magistar: 300 Damage (Was 120)
• Volnus 250 Damage (Was 100)
• Wolf Sledge 325 Damage (Was 130)
• Arca Titron: 435 Damage (Was 180)
• Fragor Prime: 325 Damage (Was 130)

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Xaero:

Exalted Blade feels completely useless. Can the stats buff help? Not sure.

Pros:

- waves (which don't even add to combo counter).

Cons:

- status-oriented (and status is now inferior to crits);

- stance gives no capacity;

- limited access to mods;

- drains energy;

- doesn't damage arbitration drones.

With how comfortable melee in general feels to play now, there's literally nothing Exalted Blade could offer to make it worth using over regular melee weapon. So we have yet another dead ability on Excalibur.

My suggestion: slightly rework the concept of Exalted Blade. Give it Garuda Talons treatment: EB will only be used when no melee weapon is equipped. Otherwise, Excalibur's ultimate buffs equipped melee weapon stats, such as damage, range and speed. Also, it should give wave projectiles to sword and nikana weapons. And default EB should be at least more or less equal to other melee weapons, give it access to all melee mods and make its stance offer additional capacity.

IMO it's the best thing that can be done to Excal's ultimate. Not only it solves the problem of dead weapon/ability, but also doesn't make The Sacrifice quest's cutscenes or new intro irrelevant (since default EB stays).

And I'd like to point out that official Warframe comics actually use the concept of turning equipped melee weapon into Exalted weapon.

I'd like to add that it now should also be able to benefit from combo mods, and that it's heavy attacks should also have an added effect, preferably something with less range than the regular waves but covering a wider area.

[Beefle]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Xaero:

Exalted Blade feels completely useless. Can the stats buff help? Not sure.

Pros:

- waves (which don't even add to combo counter).

Cons:

- status-oriented (and status is now inferior to crits);

- stance gives no capacity;

- limited access to mods;

- drains energy;

- doesn't damage arbitration drones.

With how comfortable melee in general feels to play now, there's literally nothing Exalted Blade could offer to make it worth using over regular melee weapon. So we have yet another dead ability on Excalibur.

My suggestion: slightly rework the concept of Exalted Blade. Give it Garuda Talons treatment: EB will only be used when no melee weapon is equipped. Otherwise, Excalibur's ultimate buffs equipped melee weapon stats, such as damage, range and speed. Also, it should give wave projectiles to sword and nikana weapons. And default EB should be at least more or less equal to other melee weapons, give it access to all melee mods and make its stance offer additional capacity.

IMO it's the best thing that can be done to Excal's ultimate. Not only it solves the problem of dead weapon/ability, but also doesn't make The Sacrifice quest's cutscenes or new intro irrelevant (since default EB stays).

And I'd like to point out that official Warframe comics actually use the concept of turning equipped melee weapon into Exalted weapon.

I don't know wich config you are using exactly, but my umbra uses chromatic blade with heat-corroison and he kills a lvl165 corrupted heavy gunner in 2-5 hits.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Beefle said:

I don't know wich config you are using exactly, but my umbra uses chromatic blade with heat-corroison and he kills a lvl165 corrupted heavy gunner in 2-5 hits.

It does, but my Skiajati does the same. Yet unlike chromatic EB:

- it doesn't suck against status immune targets;

- it can damage arbitration drones;

- it doesn't drain energy;

- it has more capacity;

- it has access to all melee mods;

- oh and by the way, my Skiajati heals me with every strike thanks to Daikyu mod.

Basically, it performs better universally. EB was good compared to other melee weapons before melee rework in terms of ease of use. Now it's basically the same. So why do I even need EB in my kit? For what? The only Excal's ability actually worth using for me now is Radial Blind/Howl, and I only need it to protect a defense target or kill heavy units higher than level 200.

I want Excal's kit to shine. I don't need boring AoE domination, just want his current kit be improved a bit. I've posted ideas about improving Slash Dash and Radial Javelin in separate thread though because this feedback thread is not for abilities. Exalted Blade falls into weapon category as well so my feedback on it is here.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Xaero

[BabaPambazuka]

To put it bluntly, while I agree that pre-update weapon stats needed something, it doesn't look to me like their recent individual changes have resulted in any more-credible state of "balance" amongst them so much as a wildly-different distribution of lopsided.  I hope devs don't mean to crudely grind the mathematical effectiveness of all melee weapons closer to flat:  We have enough strong individual preferences for style, feel, and looks that we don't need that to use a variety of them.  There's also an aspect of balance which needs to consider capability vs cost:  A significantly-harder weapon to craft/obtain should ultimately be more powerful...

I'll also confess that I haven't had time to review all patch notes and weapons but a couple examples with ones I own and often use are immediately glaring.

Positive:  Thank you for exposing more relevant stats (such as follow-through) in the wiki and Arsenal UI.
Thank you for buffing so many early-game weapons to be viable through the whole star chart, even if you may have overdone it in certain cases.
Thank you for adding physical damage to elemental weapon variants (Dark Split-sword, Cerata, et al).  A melee which doesn't even inflict impact is implausible, to say the least.  For specialty weapons which do native toxin or radiation damage certain tradeoffs are reasonable, but should never negate a weapon's physical-objectness and corresponding I/P/S from that itself.

Negative:  I must however object to trivializing the elemental damage these same abovementioned weapons are constructed specifically for:  Radiation now seems little more than an afterthought to the Dark Split-sword, only marginally stronger than its weakest physical damage type rather than its defining feature when in the dual-sword stance (which is the only way I and many others found it useable and fun).  Prior to this update the native radiation damage used to scale comparably with mod-introduced elements simply by maxing a vanilla [Pressure Point].  At rank 30 without a catalyst I finally had simple and intuitive builds which did roughly-equal (and consistently gratifying) amounts of radiation & corrosive or radiation & magnetic damage at the same time:  This was precisely the point of going to all the trouble and expense of crafting it as soon as I could barely reach the necessary resources.
I find it questionable enough that the Dark Split-sword's physical damage types are almost fully halved when out of Heavy Blade configuration, but can see a plausible rationale for... some degree of that in consideration of attack speed.  In contrast it is definitely indefensible to do even worse (i.e. divide by 3) to native elemental damage:  Innate radiation is innate whether you're swinging it with one hand or two.  Radiation is now the Heavy Blade's highest damage type of all (100 base), but nearly the lowest (32) as dual blades?  Where does that 68 disappear to when you separate your hands?

Takeaway:  AFAICT everybody hates/nobody uses the Dark Split-sword as a single Heavy Blade, and the only functional feature which ever kept its dual-blade stance in heavy mission rotation past max rank (as distinct from/competitive with Dual Keres) was the native radiation keeping pace with modded elementals (solely via Pressure Point) for dual-secondary-element builds otherwise impossible with just mods.
Feel free to tune physical damage stats as a function of stance and speed, but we earned every point of that Heavy Blade's base radiation regardless of stance.
...if not while building/ranking the prerequisite Dual Skanas then definitely while doing invasions and derelict runs to farm mutagen masses (at a level of noobhood when they still felt notably scary).  In comparison to the Dual Keres' direct build whose single exotic material is a single mission's grab of argon crystal, it should be obvious enough that a straight elemental upgrade is/was justified by the Dark Split-sword's relative cost and complexity.  Without the proportional radiation it used to have as dual blades, a fun favorite (for some of us) which was well worth the multi-stage quest to build is currently nerfed into overly-costly, redundant irrelevance.
 

Meanwhile the Nikana family straight-up doubles in base damage (no complaints there; I installed this game to use a Nikana, but... wow) and the Ether Sword is buffed by OVER 4X?  As thrilled as I am to now safely bring that forced AoE radiation proc out past Ceres--I never sold mine--let's not forget that (new MR7 gate be damned) the Ether Sword is trivially-buildable AT MERCURY.  And now (if references are correct) it has stronger total base damage than:  Dragon Nikana, Broken War, Galatine, just to list a few significantly-more-demanding blades to craft or acquire.  I see these changes made and appreciate the intent, but in pursuit of balance I don't think you've gotten notably "warmer".  Please tell us you have multiple passes planned for this melee-balancing process.
 

I also agree with above objections such as daggers having more follow-through than heavy weapons (SRSLY what was made to retain high damage through multiple bodies if not a Heavy Blade?  also Nikanas by historical precedent) and the sudden non-exaltation of Exalteds:  As excited as I am to fully trick out my new Valkyr Prime, now the biggest practical reason to use her Hysteria Claws over any other moderately well-modded physical melee is merely their health regeneration (which of course can also be modded for).  I haven't played Excalibro since the update, but now that I glance at the arsenal it's clear his Exalted Blade damage (previously a worst-case problem solver) has also been hugely gutted.  "Ult" is not very ultimate now.  Let's PLEASE keep looking at this.
 

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-11-20 at 11:01 AM, Andele3025 said:

Quote

And Yeah, having multiple status procs "per hit" would solve alot actually. Because what i'm suggesting is to let MELEE weapons have multi-status procs. That means one swing by itself could have C.O. proc multiple times. 

No it wouldnt. Base damage is still base damage. This does mean people using grineer bane mods.

Yeah... and primed pressure point gives 165% base damage, yet you and other people haven't called it useless. Meanwhile C.O. would do 360-600% more damage, from a single hit with "multi-procs" 

Yeah, base damage is still *DAMAGE* which is something you seem to be forgetting. it's as if you think that somehow damage is bad, just because it gets a "base damage" modifier. Condition Overload was overpowered at the end of the equation. You KNOW this. It would still be overpowered if it didn't also multiply within itself... YOU ALSO KNOW THIS. 

Quit whining and crying, and saying B.S. or smudging the truth about something that was overpowered. You're acting as if C.O. was bad, when it's clearly better than Primed Pressure Point, EVEN WITHOUT multi-procs.  It's still strong AF, so stop complaining about something that isn't broken, nor malfunctioning. 

But hey sure, if you want to complain about multiprocs then that's fine, feel free to reject something that would've been better for you. You don't need em anyway, and I don't really care tbh. I was just trying to provide alternate ideas *shrug*

On 2019-11-20 at 11:01 AM, Andele3025 said:

Quote

And even if they also applied multi-status procs for guns, so what? It doesn't mean that it's removing melee from being useful. Melee STILL does more damage than primary weapons, as it is. 

No it doesnt.

Half of the melee weapons can  hit above 100-300k damage, without even using Condition Overload.... And they also hit a wide arc of enemies. 

Only snipers, or a few shotguns can approach much damage. Though they only get a few meters of punchthrough, *in a straight line*. 

Yes, melee does more damage than "guns". It's just that enemies are so squishy, that guns don't need to hit that hard to kill large quantities of mobs. In other words, we don't really even need C.O. to kill mobs.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)Dersu42]

Complete mess. Was this system tested on enemies above level 30?

This update destroyed all viable melee builds and replaced them with a terrible heavy attack system that is horrible to use.

Melee was my favorite part of warframe. Now I am done with this game.

[Reppuzan]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Dersu42 said:

Complete mess. Was this system tested on enemies above level 30?

This update destroyed all viable melee builds and replaced them with a terrible heavy attack system that is horrible to use.

Melee was my favorite part of warframe. Now I am done with this game.

I mean, Melee still rips apart everything up to Level 150, so...

My Sigma and Octantis can tear through a cluster of Level 140 Heavy Gunners in seconds, spamming red crits galore between a CC+ Range+ riven and blood rush. The same goes for Broken War, Gram Prime, Orthos Prime, Skiajati, Nikana Prime and so on.

Sure, you aren't hitting for godly amounts of damage with specific weapons, but I enjoy the greater number of viable options beyond Plague Kripath Polearm and the Atterax.

[vaarnaaarne]

The case example of how much more variation we got now is that Fang Prime of all things is capable of killing lv 150 Bombards with ease, and Fists feel amazing to use.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

Exalted blade feels very much worse after the update. For some reason, the attack animations have been slowed down considerably, and the heavy attacks do not generate waves, as they should be. EB is supposed to be the ultimate melee weapon, considering that excalibur is fully meant to be a melee warframe and that EB provides no other bonus (IE: Hysteria's invincibility, Baruuk's AOE), it should excel in the damage department. It is by no means weak, but in my opinion it has lost some of its personality. 

In order to fix it, EB should receive a small damage bump (40% maybe), and its heavy attacks should create big, fast traveling waves that punch through enemies. Excal's 1 and 3 should also be somehow reworked, as they feel quite outdated. 

[ASHERATOR]

I will just do a synopsis of my feelings in relation to the numerous comments. Lets start with the Negative and I will end on the positive items:

  Heavy Attacks has taken a huge beating in multiple sections of the forums and is a primary source of dissatisfaction people have in how the game feels as well as mine. The solution so far was to add heavy Attacks to the melee button which I feel was the opposite of what was needed since now I am even more frustrated by them. Many players comment that they do not even use heavy attacks. To return this to a viable part of the game play you don't need to add a AOE bubble blast or anything special or new to the attack just treat it like the old channeling attack in that it still adds to the combos just with a different attack style. The fix is that simple and it would become an enjoyable part of the game as it stands now it adds nothing and is actually a penalty to us to activate the heavy attack as has been said over and over.

  Condition Overload starts off strong which is good but the fact it no longer scales for higher end content is an issue and there are plenty of solutions that have been suggested so I will just point out that it is a concern.

  Blood Rush based mods only scaling to 220 hits again kills the ability to scale properly just like the condition overload problem both of which have been mathematically outlined a lot in the forums. Again the gear works great for the star chart but starts falling off after. I do not want weapon creep but do want to be able to use any weapon and have a way to get it to scale to the enemies that I am facing...that ability has been removed by handcuffing the status and crit and it seems like a weapon creep system with kuva weapons is being put in its place which is antithetical to the warframe idea in my book.

  I do not find the new finishers viable as by the time I get something down to the point I could use it generally they will die from status procs before I can activate. The old sneak up stealth finisher system made more sense to me. The Mercy finisher animations on Thralls I will admit to enjoying.

  I agree with the numerous comments on the changes to the Zenistar and Glaives especially the Orvius. They were unique weapons that had niche uses which made them interesting and fun. The Zenistar disk time out especially considering the other changes make for a weapon that is not viable at all. Removing the Orvius signature move of having the best tracking capability of all glaives which then could lift an enemy off the ground drain them or do an AOE attack to a group makes it extremely lackluster piece of gear now in comparison. The changes made them uninteresting and I am not finding any situations that I would bother using them now. People are having similar if not as extreme issues with the gunblades which I get as well.

  Most of these issues tie into sehafoc's earlier comments about “Games of Labor” where re-balancing to the detriment of the point of the game or the items that someone has worked hard for in the game impacts the customers psychology in ways that I can't imagine the developers want us impacted. Yes the re-balancing the catchmoon then balancing 5 others was positive but nerfing scaling I am having a hard time seeing the benefit and am only hearing the frustration from the community.

   The positive aspect of the system:

  The changes to how to activate melee moves in the stances is a huge improvement over the previous weird button mashing. I cannot thank the developers enough for this consolidated system where no matter the weapon I can easily tactically coordinate my dash forward to attack an enemy, do a radial strike on the group and then finish up a tougher enemy in the group with quick attacks. That is not even mentioning the easy movements I can combine to dodge, roll, back flip, wall-walk, etc in conjunction. The different weapons and stances that have been worked on have unique looking movements which I very much appreciate the eye candy but more importantly to me the system now has a solid and stable mechanic to do a variety of things easily.

The return of blocking and improvements to it are fantastic.

  I for one love the freedom of movement in this game which is amazing as I look at many other games systems of obstacle vaulting, etc that remove my immersion in the game and make me feel like I'm on a rail with limited choices. I love that one day I can be a grunt on the ground or free-play bounties, fishing, mining, boarding and the next be having a space battle on an arch-wing. The variety of play options and gear keeps the game interesting. Which is why the issues above which either limit us or punish us for acquiring stuff all are the wrong precedent in my humble opinion.

[alseltas]

Taken away the affection of combo counter, Thrown melee’s throws are totally useless now.

 With slow wind-up, the throw only hits few time per a enemy (usually only once), and also its returning takes time, resulting too small DPS at all. 

Now the combo counter only affects the explosion. However, the explosion does not have any Crit chance. While other weapons such as Redeemer P can deal huge damage with the combination of Heavy Attack and True(Sacrificial) Steel, glaives, which were already minor melee prior the Old Blood, gained nothing but only nerf.

Please revert the nerf and give them your love again.

[Moon.Shadows]

I can't begin to accurately describe how I feel right now without using socially unacceptable language. Literally DAYS before I get zenistar it's nerfed so the disk feature lasts 10 seconds for each combo multiplier.

I am going to go for understatement of the year and say, "I am really angry".

[Grave.Knight]

Reflection doesn't do anything now.