Update 26: The Old Blood

[CodeUltimate]

So DE, where is the promised system where you could trade your kuva liches in your clan dojo?

[Fiedra]

I just want a way to shoo away my lich if i don't have the required requiem mods without having to kill myself, like maybe downing him and having him disappear if you don't finish them within a certain amount of time. It'd really encourage keeping them around long-term too, and maybe you could have them adapt when you kill them with a warframe power like you showed at TennoCon 2019.

[paul5473]

1 hour ago, [DE]Drew said:

Fixed an inaccurate description in the notes. 

 

When fully used will they stay there but be useless or get thanos snapped out of our inventory?

[SyntheticGoat]

I don't have any definite opinion regarding the melee changes as of yet. The moves feel smooth and nice, but Forward Tactical Combos seem to cover really short distances. Also, heavy attacks seem pointless since they take away your combo meter and thus, nullify the Weeping Wounds and Blood Rush multipliers. And all that for a single strike. I don't mind using heavy attacks from time to time but only if they don't cost the entire combo meter. Also, I don't know if damage multipliers and finishers from certain moves are gone and I will be glad if someone could confirm this to me. So I'm going to tell about two completely new things in the game.


First of, about the update's main focus: the Lich system. The idea sounds nice on paper but when the time comes for hunting down your Nemesis, you notice yourself getting stuck behind 4 grind walls:

1) Weapon. If you didn't get the gun you wanted, well, you've wasted the entire cycle.

2) Wispers. As of yet, the only way to get Wispers is to kill Thralls. A lot of them. 150, in fact. So, with the amount of Thralls appearing per mission being finite (~15) it's about 10 runs of at least lvl.60 missions.
Why not bringing more ways of acquiring Wispers? For example, when you confront the Lich and get killed, you get a significant amount of Wispers. That way, you create a "risk-reward" feature: players can choose between more slow and safe way of slaying Thralls and getting the knowledge of the Mods much quicker at the cost of making their Lich more powerful. Or, like some people before me suggested, make some consoles give the player some Whispers upon hacking them. It will also fit the theme of "getting closer and hunting down your personal villain by gaining more knowledge about their weaknesses after each consecutive try" very well.

3) Relics. The only way of getting the Relic with 100% chance is the Kuva Floods, which appear once per hour. Another way is through Kuva Siphons, which is much less efficient. That's it. And unlike Axi Relics which you can get by farming Defences and Survivals, there is no way of farming something that appears once per hour.
If Requiem Relics are connected to the Kuva Fortress, why not letting players get them there, e.g. from Kuva Disruptions. Again, it was suggested before, so I'm not the only one who thinks it's necessary.

4) The Mods. And even after all the struggle with getting the Relics you need, you can't be sure that you'll get the necessary Mods. But, it's the same thing for all Relics, so increasing the amount of Relics sources should be enough.


Then, we get to an actual fight, or, more correctly, hoping that the Lich that will come is yours and not the one that belongs to another dude who don't want to fight them, forcing the Lich to run around pointlessly and ruining your chance to kill your Lich at this mission. The change so that the Liches can come more than one at a time should do the thing.
Alright, your Lich comes after you and the fight begins. And then you notice that the Lich is basically, a giant bullet sponge, especially if they are high ranked.

That reminds me, the ranks. Please, give us a point to increase our Liches' ranks other than "personal challenge". And what is challenging in bullet sponges that instagib you if you so happen to run on some of more squishy frames. I've already suggested gaining a relatively huge amount of Wispers for the rank up. Maybe an additional weapon's stat boost? Maybe an increased chance of dropping some nice stuff?
Also, the challenge. How about giving the Liches more abilities at the higher ranks? I don't know, just make them more interesting to fight.

Did you get the weapon you wanted? No? Well, better luck next time. With 150 Thralls and hopes of getting your Lich to spawn when you need them. Yes? Well, prepare 5 Forma to get all the avaliable MR from it. And for 12 more guns.


Moving on to Parazon and the Mercies. This one's going to be much shorter because there is not much to say here. When you actually get the chance to perform the Mercy, it's very satisfying. The thing is, you usually don't get the chance to perform one on norrmal enemies. Usually, when the enemies are open for Mercy, they are at the very low HP, which makes the chances of me noticing the red symbol above their head, abandoning my shooting/melee'ing/ability spamming, running towards that enemy and performing the Mercy... very low. And, unlike normal melee finishers, the Mercies are VERY inconsistent.

Also, a small suggestion. What about making the Mimica Parazon, like the Mimica Shawzin, which mimics your Warframe's colours? I would even pay for that.

[basgemm]

A lot of stuff I hate in this update, but lets start with the positives.
ember: an overall good rework, she's fun to play looks nice and flashy and isn't as squishy, she's in a weird spot now though because she doesn't seem to do much damage, her 1 is only useful for the augments, her 2 is a nice concept but I'd have preffered it as her passive and/or it consuming health instead of energy (as if she were slowly melting herself from overuse) her 3 is good for armour removal but I'd like to have it only consume heat instead of enery and heat. over than that I'm enjoying her
The negatives

Vauban: I don't even, his 1st ability gets a pass since it's the same effectiveness (besides lacking 100% status chance) while being more mobile, his 2nd is still trash; the only remotely useful one is the damage amp, his 3rd needs to have cast time sped up as well as some form of scaling added it just doesn't feel like enough damage to warrant such a long animation (though it is visually satisfying) and his 4th is great, well it should be great since it is just duct taping his 2 most useful abilities together (his old 3 and 4) but the rework altogether though it changes a lot of stuff it doesn't change his position, cc still ain't as good as killing and his killing potential is squandered by a long setup time.

the old blood, I'm not gonna touch this any more than I have until they change it. 50 murmurs per 'hint' essentially is too much investment, having to seek out the lich in missions rather than locating him and attacking him (like you would a boss node) makes it highly inconsistant which just exacerbates the trial and error of the whole requiem matching S#&$, make requiems not limited in uses please, I don't want to grind for them again; one would say "it's like grinding for relics for prime parts" but atleast in that case I know what I'm making and there's more choice in the matter than just grinding them, besides we don't need another relic system in the game at the moment, especially since they're selling em for p on the market.

Melee: 
this is pretty, don't know why you nerfed CO it's just gonna hurt build variety and solidify the position of crit and crit/status builds, heavy attacks are pointless maybe give em better multipliers, the effects are satisfying though that should be a given since part 1 of melee 2.0 was introduced so long ago and this has been cooking ever since. it's another situation that shows that no-one at DE seems to play their game, CO should have a cap yes but it has been neutered too hard

new kavat and other stuff: it doesn't matter, we all have the Kavat that is famous for improving RNG in an already RNG heavy game so whats the point of any other companion, I got the 835p old blood bundle to show my support but I've come to regret it since it's such a lackluster update, I can tell a #*!% ton of effort went into this but It felt like there was a lack of communication somewhere which lead to us receiving some cool content locked behind a grind that honestly has made me infuriated beyond belief.

tldr: ember good, everything else is too much grind for me or unimportant, I'll see yall 2 years down the line when empyrion releases

[DeathByEgo]

About the weapon exilus slots. Thanks for adding built in polarities to avoid using too many forma to fit these things. But... It seems like every time I go and think, "Oh, I can now add ____ to this weapon." I go check and the slot is formaed for V. The mod I want is a - (dash). Then I go to the next weapon.... V instead of a dash... Next weapon... V instead of a dash. Then finally I get a built in dash. I actually had to check what mods even have a V polarity. And... come on. 95% of the time, the most useful mods for that slot are a dash. Its shocking the amount of weapons that have a V there. Is Projectile Flight Speed really more of a priority mod than Steady Hands or Mutation or any of the other dash mods? The single weapons that use the Oddity mods, sure ok. But the Knell getting a Madurai polarity? For what exactly? Spry sights? Or that the Twin Grakata is really begging for Projectile Flight Speed?

Edited November 4, 2019 by DeathByEgo

[Kaosan]

I realy love the new tonemap... keep up the good work DE!

[Jakizu]

Where are the forums they specified for feedback on melee, kuva lichs etc? I have major complaints, concerns and ideas but it seems they got ride of the original Update 26 "delay" post.

[Skillzzpro]

Please fix the loss of functonality when entering foundry (loss 30 FPS from 60 to 30 Windows tap and back in game fixed it)

Hosting a public game where the timer starts from 10 and counts down to when mission begins and resets at 5 sec to 10 indefintely

Edited November 5, 2019 by Skillzzpro

[Ghost_P]

My suggestion towards larvlings:

Kuva larvlings should ONLY spawn while playing SOLO on kuva siphon missions; after the player has done the two mission objectives: destroyed/gathered the kuva siphon and the main mission one.

I was thinking it would be cool that allied kuva liches could spawn and revive the fallen player just like how arlo's devotees did at first.

 

[Madway7]

7 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Fixed an inaccurate description in the notes. 

I noticed you guys removed mention of the Cadus as it was a chinaframe weapon, can you remove the Prisma Machete too since it's the same case. Unless we should expect to get it eventually?

[MakubexKido]

screw you DE

why the f did you add a default polarity for every weapon exilus ???

[MirageKnight]

5 hours ago, DeathByEgo said:

About the weapon exilus slots. Thanks for adding built in polarities to avoid using too many forma to fit these things. But... It seems like every time I go and think, "Oh, I can now add ____ to this weapon." I go check and the slot is formaed for V.

 

19 minutes ago, MakubexKido said:

why the f did you add a default polarity for every weapon exilus ???

Simple, they WANT you to use Forma...on top of the Forma you already need to unlock the slot to begin with.

Not like I approve of this or anything. Those slots should have been blank / polarity-free by default.

[MakubexKido]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

 

Simple, they WANT you to use Forma...on top of the Forma you already need to unlock the slot to begin with.

Not like I approve of this or anything. Those slots should have been blank / polarity-free by default.

 

i knew it
still, its a $&*^ move by DE

[nooneyouknow13]

So, Slash Dash is by far the lowest damage of all the ones that scale with melee mods. I assume this was because you can add EB's waves onto the attack, but since EB no longer scales with combo multiplier, neither do the waves from Slash Dash. This has effectively cut slash dash damage by at least 50%, and in most cases by more than 2/3rds. This now puts it far behind Whipclaw, Landslide, and Shattered Lash in practice.

[anonimus_riga]

Inaros can do a finisher attack with "use" button - X  by default now. As always no info about that anywhere and nothing appears on enemy as it does on objects to give a hint. 

[Ein0r]

Will you lose Void Traces if you have filled out your capacity and get the stolen ones back?

[AdunSaveMe]

On 2019-11-01 at 7:07 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Aim Assist will be disabled for almost all attacks in the Forward and Tactical Forward Combos

I'm actually finding this to be a little annoying for some weapons, like Wukong's Iron Staff. Like I'm constantly fighting against my own melee. I feel like this should at least be optional, perhaps as an expansion to the current 'melee auto targeting' setting.

Even without inputs, some combos just seem to slide past enemies.

Edited November 5, 2019 by AdunSaveMe

[TheBlackShawarma]

4 days without hotfix. I think this is an experiment - how much patience is enough for the players.

[albertkamu]

Here is some feedback:
1.Grendel:
    farming part only: general feeling :bad
    +: -new content.
        -challenging.
    -: -in 3 weeks nobody will be playing it anymore: same things will happen than with harrow system and nidus part..
       -non-solo friendly even if can probably be done.
       -a tactical alert would have been a beter choice or not?

2.Kuva Lich:
    so far I only kill 1 Lich: general feeling : nice (but need to be good)
    +: -territory, IMO it give life to the origin system. Personal thought: it should also be extend to syndicat and nightwave.
        -parazon: new weapon totally ninja, the finisher move are amasing.
        -replayable.
        -the kuva fortress have a way to be, other than kuva survival.
        -variety of Lich
    -: -no introducing quest: it's a new chapiter in Warframe, it should have been an introducing quest for the Kuva Lich(an immortal nemesis) and the parazon (a way to    defeat him).
       -nothing Epic in killing him, I always though Bosses should have 2 versions(long and fast), one quest related(replayable, Epic with cutscene) and one for farming.
       -the territory expand too fast, at rank 5: 5 planetes is way too much IMO.
       -the mod and relic: RNG.... once you get the mod you should not be stressed any more about The Bad Luck, in short for my Lich, I had to go threw the trading chat to exchange some duplicate because I didn't get the mod with the rad share. Suggestion: remove the amber star from the relic drop and replace it with "parazon endo" which can be used to give 1 charge back to 1 mod.
       -the murmure/whisper farm: it takes a lot of time. Suggestion: parazon should rank up with every Lich kill. So the more you kill, the faster you'll be able to kill the next one.

3. Melee:
    so far only get time to test 6 melees weapons: general feeling: bad.
    +: -range: no need to be mouth to mouth for dealing damage.
        -some stat improvement: some melee weapon needed a buff(status and critical chance)
        -heavy attack: I'like it but ...
    -: -Nerf, I always consider melee should be stronger than fire weapon or abilities since you need to be more exposed.
       -I did not have fun playing melee since the update. I have to worry about farming combo fast (hello spin to win become spin to farm).
       -the new heavy attack, too slow, consume all your combo if not mod properly and the heavy slam .... not very ninja to me, more duck tales.
       -I hit my melee button the whole weekend so many times that I can't use it anymore: my wrist is hurting since yesterday, so I can't play warframe or any other game anymore.

My general opinion about the update is not very good, I'll just add you shoud have deliver it in 3 times(1 per week):
    1. Mainline: grendel, kavat, remorks, catchmoon and exilus.
    2. Kuva Lich.
    3. Melee phase 2, even here I think you'd hit too hard.

Ps: You have to send Pablo back to school: That's not the way statistics should be used to justifie the catchmoon nerf, if the playerbase +20MR represent 10% of the total population of warframe player, it means that the nerf happen only because 5% of a population correspond to the standard, but I know it's a jedi mind trick that only work on the weak minded.

[tennomantra]

I've started reading these three days ago, I've finished it today.
You might say it took me three days to read these patch notes.

Not that I'm complaining, very excited to see so many changes, loving the new melee so far.

Anyone else feel like "Fast Hands" and "Depleted Reload" should be exilus mods, though?

[JohnnyMeta]

Great concepts but very bad implementation, the game is repetitive if and it is one of the reasons why many of us play, because we can have fun again. The problem is that many of us are also old players, and this system forces us in a really annoying way to repeat missions that maybe (some / many of us) did farming a resource like Kuva or another memory, making challenges.
Another low blow was the nerf of the mele, I understand that they have increased the damage, but they have been formulas that have been maintained excellently for years, now they put powerful enemies that with melee do not have so much way to harm him, and imagine that when This happened we turned to our melee.

Another negative point is the random implementation of being able to correctly kill these new enemies which becomes a worse nightmare than Freddy Krueger can generate.

Another REALLY NEGATIVE point is the way to get Grendel. We continue talking about a repetitive system, but this is already an exaggeration without precedents, to get 75 Vitus Essence, to be able to get the location of the parts (25 Vitus Essence each), and complete missions where will not benefit from any equipped Mods, and Operators cannot be used. The only exception to these rules are Warframe Augment Mods, Arcane Enhancement, and Sentinel Precepts, whose effects still work. And that additionally we will have to complete a survival of 20 minutes, a defense of 15 waves and an excavation with 800 Cryotic.

I respect the DE a lot, they are incredible people but I see these changes really uncomfortable and not at all entertaining (it's my point of view, I've been playing and having fun with Warframe for more than 5 years), it makes me feel sad, but it feels very healthy stop playing.

Thanks for the attention anyway the game would not change for many criticisms of the implemented but when people stop playing they will know that they did something really abusive and crazy.

[Nichivo]

The majority of people I have spoken with have been having issues with game freeze upon Kuva Lich coming to a players aid. Even worse it seems to also cause host migrations, and even game crashes. It's only going to get worse as more people, convert or vanquish Lich. Also currently even vanquished Lich are coming to the aid of players.

I myself have experienced the freeze which varies in time, well as one crash, and 4 host migrations, during a Lich intervention on behalf of a player.😟

Oops wrong thread, but still an issue.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Nichivo

[SyntheticGoat]

6 минут назад, Nichivo сказал:

The majority of people I have spoken with have been having issues with game freeze upon Kuva Lich coming to a players aid. Even worse it seems to also cause host migrations, and even game crashes. It's only going to get worse as more people, convert or vanquish Lich. Also currently even vanquished Lich are coming to the aid of players.

I myself have experienced the freeze which varies in time, as well as one crash, and 4 host migrations, during a Lich intervention on behalf of a player.😟

Had the same issue multiple times already. Always scared every time the Lich comes to help because I'm afraid the game's frozen/

[MakiChachi]

Not sure if devs follow forums closely but i'll post bug report here. Kuva Brakk damage dealt not recorded properly on mission progress results when joining public sessions. It is only recorded properly when i am the host (the one using the weapon), also damage numbers not showing status applied even with a 100% status build.