Melee nerfed a tad too hard

[herflik]

The problem with melee is not its damage actualy, here is a list of my problem with it that still need to be adressed:

1) The new melee combo system isnt much different than before: the stationaly attacks arent actualy stationary in many cases, there are no backstep attack or sidestep attack, its still only forward movements.

2) 2 handers are weak comparing to 1 handers now. People that write about 3x base dmg boost didnt check weapons. Most of 1 handers got +100%-200% dmg, where many 2 handers got +50%-100% only. Additionaly 2 hander block angle and range is similar to 1 handers, where they are still slow as turtle comparing to 1 handers.

3)Most weapons are now flattened, there is nothing really making them different. Instead of giving some cool quirks and differentation between weapons we got just 200 melee skins.

4)They nerfed melee dmg alot, but their dmg was the only reason why someone would use melee instead of range weapons. Range weapons in current state always will be better simply because they can do same or more dmg, have range and aoe - they are faster and more convinient to use.

5) The blocking ,slam and heavy attacks werent adressed correctly :

a)Some builds can reach insane attack speed where using whole wooping 1 heavy attack actualy lower your dps and make the fighting clunky

b)Blocking is useless in games where you fight 10+ enemies since there is no good opportunity to use it (or dangerous situation), its situational mechanics in game that never create such sitatuion. The same goes with all the slide, wall latches and other parkous manovouers in battle

c)Slam doesnt offer anything good either, only the heavy slam give some CC. Though my heavy slam somehow deal 4 times less dmg than regular one, additionaly the radial slam dmg still isnt scalling with regular weapon dmg. So your main slam dmg is 20000 where its radial dmg 300. Nonsense in shortcut

6)They nerf dmg but didnt address the inifnite scaling of enemies, especialy the armor mechanics that are simply crap

 

[Brazzi-4K]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

What endgame?

Kuva is the real lategame, nothing else LuL

[BornWithTeeth]

You know that there’s an incredibly simple and straightforward explanation, right?

 

DE don’t want Warframe to have an endgame which consists of spending hours in endless missions fighting enemies above level 200. That sort of play expectation is something they now consider it to have been a mistake to encourage/cater to, especially since it warped balancing of Warframe powers and weapon damage outputs. 
 

So yeah, they rebalanced melee to make far more weapons viable, but also ruthlessly cut down the exponential output of the extreme scaling top tier builds, because that’s not what they want the game to be.

[xPolga]

51 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

Parece que o super buff enfraquece o corpo a corpo para torná-lo viável, por exemplo, nikana / tatsu e reduz a escala de dano, então você é limitado

Agora, a única maneira de matar inimigos lvl 500+ é apenas com 3 ou 4 quadros de guerra (como saryn, octavia) ou bloqueio

Este sou eu, uma vez por semana, PepeHands

I say the same my friend, warframe fianl for me! People who don't know the least bit about comb ant combat, all the technique that is employed with focus school and mods, now it's simple when an uneducated one picks up the melee and hits the map, that was good for the beginners, only DE forgets that without the guys from the end game, newbies are not created in this game!

 

[Melanholic7]

9 часов назад, Sagittarix сказал:

Really proud of Warframes friendly and supporting community these days.

sorry that im not keeping silence when somebody trying to lie to community 😃  

[Melanholic7]

1 час назад, herflik сказал:

The problem with melee is not its damage actualy, here is a list of my problem with it that still need to be adressed:

1) The new melee combo system isnt much different than before: the stationaly attacks arent actualy stationary in many cases, there are no backstep attack or sidestep attack, its still only forward movements.

2) 2 handers are weak comparing to 1 handers now. People that write about 3x base dmg boost didnt check weapons. Most of 1 handers got +100%-200% dmg, where many 2 handers got +50%-100% only. Additionaly 2 hander block angle and range is similar to 1 handers, where they are still slow as turtle comparing to 1 handers.

3)Most weapons are now flattened, there is nothing really making them different. Instead of giving some cool quirks and differentation between weapons we got just 200 melee skins.

4)They nerfed melee dmg alot, but their dmg was the only reason why someone would use melee instead of range weapons. Range weapons in current state always will be better simply because they can do same or more dmg, have range and aoe - they are faster and more convinient to use.

5) The blocking ,slam and heavy attacks werent adressed correctly :

a)Some builds can reach insane attack speed where using whole wooping 1 heavy attack actualy lower your dps and make the fighting clunky

b)Blocking is useless in games where you fight 10+ enemies since there is no good opportunity to use it (or dangerous situation), its situational mechanics in game that never create such sitatuion. The same goes with all the slide, wall latches and other parkous manovouers in battle

c)Slam doesnt offer anything good either, only the heavy slam give some CC. Though my heavy slam somehow deal 4 times less dmg than regular one, additionaly the radial slam dmg still isnt scalling with regular weapon dmg. So your main slam dmg is 20000 where its radial dmg 300. Nonsense in shortcut

6)They nerf dmg but didnt address the inifnite scaling of enemies, especialy the armor mechanics that are simply crap

 

Very nice points. Especially  number 4). 

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, herflik said:

didnt address the inifnite scaling of enemies, especialy the armor mechanics

Very well organized and reasonable criticisms! Kudos

 

The main bulk of melee stats are in a more manageable place to base new enemy health systems on.

Still feels very early stages for many functions, but a better foundation for stats.

 

[stormy505]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE don’t want Warframe to have an endgame which consists of spending hours in endless missions fighting enemies above level 200.

This play style really didn't effect the casual part of the community. There's no incentive to do the content outside of the enjoyment of perfectionism, and if de had an issue with the total time it took to get to high levels. Introducing a new gameplus system to increase base level or let people start at their own level could easily get around that.

It legitimately just sounds like whiners complained about high levels that they have never experienced before.

[AR3E]

Everything is terrible. Stances changes is terrible. In game about killing mobs my favor stance Carving Mantis now doing low damage by 1-2 combo and dont doing what I expect in 3-4. 3 now throws me several meters forward, like garbage stance Brutal Tide in past (I dunno how it now) and almost not touching anyone. 4 doing cool abuse - mob stun, very fastly. It also not killing anything fat, I dont see in my tests enough slash procs to kill just Gunner 165. They was like Chihua-hua for my Dual Ceres, but now they are fat sloths lying on the ground. So now I can spin around the world in 85 soon™ and kill no one or kill few mobs after they'll sleep and comes to me or after I come to each for kill (maybe, or maybe they'll continue flying and lying). And that's not about damage.

I also like some Zaws (Dokhram, Kripath, Mewan) for damage and range. For maimstriking I used only Scoliac riven in 2017 and a little bit in 18 before infested Zaw comes, because I had necessery that game gave me. But now Twirling Spire looks like something wat should be killed. Torsion of a stick around looks great, but there’s little use. Another attack launches on Mars, lol. For what? And where is that huge boost of damage by reducing the attack speed...

Range of weapons what had normal range was nerfed. Primed Reach giving 3 meters, but obviously it is lower than +165% for weapon what already had 3 meters. And now 4.25 with Ankyros Prime, cool story bros.

That's about damage. Power attacks is garbage for players with full equip and powerful riven mods in past. x12 damage cool for new players and who didnt wasted tons of time for reaching it already. Blood Rush boosting: 60*12 or 165*4? *5? *6? And dont forgot about damage scalling, now combos dont know what it is - that's place where is the trick. I also dont get what getting that crit bonus - base CC or after mods, but damage still so much low.

Compomises is okay, but where is compromises for my side? For people who wasted tons of their time for farming mods, endo, kuva/platinus over 9000 times, time for tests and heart warm. Also I saw Sarpa dont doing third shot, because now animation of third shot is using by power attack. LOL. And look this:

Спойлер

 

 

 

 

I did test now - it is pathetic so much now.

Now souls of all dead formas and my bad english crawling my spine. I dunno - am I should cry or laugh about that enchanting absurd.

Edited November 1, 2019 by AR3E

[Sagittarix]

1 hour ago, Melanholic7 said:

sorry that im not keeping silence when somebody trying to lie to community 😃  

Point taken, I should've measured the time it took before the update and then repeated the exact same test after the update and asked you beforehand wether the difference in time is of a magnitude that would tolerate your perception of what "a little" is. Sue me for not living up to your expectation of what constitutes observation precise enough to be shared in a video game forum.

Anyway, it is a waste of time to talk with people who accuse you of lying when they have no proof of malicious intent.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 hours ago, MaryoSlayer said:

I tested every weapon against lvl 130 corrupted heavy gunners, every melee is WAY better now except your brain-dead polearms and im gonna be honest im so happy spin to win has been adressed

Pesky things, these facts and QA testing.  😏

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

Across the board stat buffs, but somehow a nerf because you can't deal 26 times the damage with one mod or spam slide attacks to kill entire rooms.

This is why nobody takes "endgame" players seriously,

Preach, brother.

[Xehalin]

Top out damage was nerfed massively, but qol and damage was inceased  across the board for all weapons. Everything feels good to use. I hate to say it, but I'm actually kind of happy they nerfed maiming strike into the ground. I think they should do a bit more adjustment to make top out numbers a little higher so everybody is happy, but still. I think damage 3.0 will solidify all the changes they made so far and bring things in line for every weapon.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Preach, brother.

How many times have I said it now?

 

Endless missions against scaling enemies were poison to the game’s development and balance, and inadvertently training a section of the community to think of those endless missions as the best endgame was a big mistake on DE’s part.

[XzWasPzX]

hace 2 horas, BornWithTeeth dijo:

You know that there’s an incredibly simple and straightforward explanation, right?

 

DE don’t want Warframe to have an endgame which consists of spending hours in endless missions fighting enemies above level 200. That sort of play expectation is something they now consider it to have been a mistake to encourage/cater to, especially since it warped balancing of Warframe powers and weapon damage outputs. 
 

So yeah, they rebalanced melee to make far more weapons viable, but also ruthlessly cut down the exponential output of the extreme scaling top tier builds, because that’s not what they want the game to be.

Ok, they dont want. But the players do. 

Isnt the customer who put the rules?

[George_PPS]

2 hours ago, herflik said:

3)Most weapons are now flattened, there is nothing really making them different. Instead of giving some cool quirks and differentation between weapons we got just 200 melee skins.

4)They nerfed melee dmg alot, but their dmg was the only reason why someone would use melee instead of range weapons. Range weapons in current state always will be better simply because they can do same or more dmg, have range and aoe - they are faster and more convinient to use.

 

These are excellent points. All old metas are gone but now everything is about the same. Melee’s effectiveness and that fun factor is also trashed. 

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Ok, they dont want. But the players do. 

Isnt the customer who put the rules?

lolno

[George_PPS]

3 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Ok, they dont want. But the players do. 

Isnt the customer who put the rules?

It’s weird that players supporting the nerfs can actually tell that DE is dictating what play style we should like or play. Very wrong.

[XzWasPzX]

hace 10 minutos, BornWithTeeth dijo:

lolno

Never run a bussiness, for your own good xD

Edited November 1, 2019 by XzWasPzX

[EtongGeongSenpai]

zenistar 7 second now 😭

[Aldain]

7 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

Isnt the customer who put the rules?

90% of customers wouldn't know a good product from a latrine. Why do you think EA gets away with selling microtransaction filled nonsense and the same sports game every year?

Imagine if you went to a cake shop that listens to a portion of customers who think you should use wood chippings instead of flour in a cake, is the customer always right then?

The answer is no because you literally can't make a cake out of wood chippings. The customer is not always right, sometimes the customer has no clue what they want and will just buy things and then return them later complaining that it wasn't what they wanted and will demand compensation because it isn't their fault they bought a washing machine when they needed a towel rack.

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, Aldain dijo:

90% of customers wouldn't know a good product from a latrine. Why do you think EA gets away with selling microtransaction filled nonsense and the same sports game every year?

Imagine if you went to a cake shop that listens to a portion of customers who think you should use wood chippings instead of flour in a cake, is the customer always right then?

The answer is no because you literally can't make a cake out of wood chippings. The customer is not always right, sometimes the customer has no clue what they want and will just buy things and then return them later complaining that it wasn't what they wanted and will demand compensation because it isn't their fault they bought a washing machine when they needed a towel rack.

No no no no no. No.

We arent asking for wood chippings in a cake, we are asking for a cake in the cake. Enemies scale to infinite, so we also want to be able to face them infinite.

You give me a nerf but the gameplay is fun? Ok i get it.

You give me a nerf but my damage scales? Ok i get it.

You give me a nerf and take away my fun and scaling damage? WTF are u doing? xD

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, stormy505 said:

This play style really didn't effect the casual part of the community. There's no incentive to do the content outside of the enjoyment of perfectionism, and if de had an issue with the total time it took to get to high levels. Introducing a new gameplus system to increase base level or let people start at their own level could easily get around that.

It legitimately just sounds like whiners complained about high levels that they have never experienced before.

splitting matchmaking is not a wise choice for a co-op game, just means more empty sessions and a stronger impression the  game is dead which actually makes it so by staving off players because of that very impression. it's also been made rather exuberantly clear over the years that de trying to balance around these immensely partitioning tiers of power does cause some hindrance/difficulty. balancing a game for level 1k+ enemies while wanting level 1-100 enemies to still remain relevant/engaging is a very difficult and limiting task. that is a lot to ask for de to compromise with over what effectively on your end is semantics, because just making you get to higher levels faster through a plus system, or just downward balancing your power so closer levels fill the same difficulty tier results in ultimately no different from each other in active experience other than the method to get to it, one just costs a heck of a lot more to do and has more risks involved. 

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

No no no no no. No.

We arent asking for wood chippings in a cake, we are asking for a cake in the cake. Enemies scale to infinite, so we also want to be able to face them infinite.

You give me a nerf but the gameplay is fun? Ok i get it.

You give me a nerf but my damage scales? Ok i get it.

You give me a nerf and take away my fun and scaling damage? WTF are u doing? xD

Let me ask you what is the point of enemies scaling infinitely if we can too scale infinitely? What does it prove? What combat experience does it achieve? 

So far as I'm aware the whole point of an infinite scaling system is that we aren't supposed to scale up to it, it is supposed to be a difficulty mechanic, it is a ramping up bull fight until you  can't take it anymore and then you pull out until next time. Without that it's no more than just entirely empty numbers just there for perceptions sake. 

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, Cubewano dijo:

Let me ask you what is the point of enemies scaling infinitely if we can too scale infinitely? What does it prove? What combat experience does it achieve? 

So far as I'm aware the whole point of an infinite scaling system is that we aren't supposed to scale up to it, it is supposed to be a difficulty mechanic, it is a ramping up bull fight until you  can't take it anymore and then you pull out until next time. Without that it's no more than just entirely empty numbers just there for perceptions sake. 

Push yourself beyond your limits, simply, cause no matter how much your damage scales to infinite, sooner or later you cant kill them because of their infinite scaling stats. The point is, this new systems lowers that limit a looootttt. If some players (aka customers) have fun in endurance runs, your part as services provider is to let them do it. If most of vets (aka customers) have fun this way, makes no sense to stop selling this product for them. Its like if you almost wanted to ruin your bussiness, i simply dont get it...