Feedback on the recent update

[Lazframe]

For someone that doesn't use the forums often, I need to manifest my concerns because this last update opened a really grim future for Warframe. Let's see what this update had to offer, but also HOW it was delivered.

Alright so we've been left alone in this game for months with no incentive to play and that's fair, what I suggested in the past was to at least appreciate those who keep playing your game during content droughts with boosters and such while the whole world migrates to Destiny but hey, that's fair. What I expected tho was communication: there was this big problem were Warframe was losing its playerbase daily and they just did nothing about it, like "We don't care" then why should I care either at this point.

The update
Alright so let's sum it up:
Ember: it was my most played frame, Ember is by nature a DPS - that worked in low level missions, yes, but still a DPS. What is Ember now? A Tank? That strips armor? Why would you ever wanna use ember now: if you want a tank you have plenty of other better choices, if you want something to strip armor there is much better. She has no place nor identity.
Vauban: call it a rework, feels clunky at best. But hey, I think this was the best part of the update tbh.
Kuva Lich: one question. What is the reward behind all this mess? You do realize there are no incentives behind it aside from the Mastery points? I mean, if you introduce a major new part of the game you want it to appeal to the vast majority of players right? Ok, why would I ever go trough the pain of farming all the new parazon mods and all for a Kuva Seer. So much potential lost.
Melee nerfs: What can I say, thanks for killing melee! That's what I mean with losing touch with your community: imagine killing an entire system that had its strenght in scaling to implement one that has none of that and with the only puprose of looking cool. A disclaimer on this: I've been always against those youtubers who start these crusades against "DE catering to new players", but who does this new melee benefits? Really, did anyone at DE even jump into simulacrum and thought it was okay?

What we were promised and lack of trust
They promised they would have brought other melees on pair with slide weapons, while not killing slide, yet that's what they did. Sorry, you spent 2500 plat on a Scoliac riven or wasted 4 hours being AFK every day for a week in a mission to roll that slot machine? Sorry, it's dead now. Did the same for catchmoon? Well we'll kill it now. I am ok with nerfs, but considering you introduced rivens which is a pain of a system and then acting like they were never introduced and PUNISHING your playerbase's effort is a joke.  Good to know, I guess after riven dispositions crushing your efforts and the fact that you basically don't care about them why would I ever try again to spend time or money into the only resemblance of endgame we have.

The future
Just wanna toss it out there: imagine in a few months from now when they'll nerf blink for archwings. Goodluck with your Eidolon runs! You will surely still be able to do what you do now when you'll have blink on cooldown.

At this point I don't even know if they play their own game. Melee: out of focus. Ember: out of focus. Kuva Lich: out of focus. I've been playing this game for years, and it's soul crushing to see it go downhill for dumb decisions like these. Give your game a direction.

[Uhkretor]

2 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Give your game a direction.

They did.

[Frostyinferno]

The riven thing has me pretty bummed too. Like I don't really care about Maiming Strike, but people seem to forget that the effect maiming strike gives was a riven roll as well. I spent a good amount of kuva rolling my Keewar Riven to augment a hybrid crit/Condition Overload build. Now, because the way crit is calculated with blood rush and the slide crit effect, my riven is ACTUALLY useless. There's a big difference between minor nerfs via disposition changes and totally gutting a hard-earned roll. 

If anything this update has taught me to never even bother with rivens. 

[Firetempest]

I want a kuva seer...

Edited November 2, 2019 by Firetempest

[peterc3]

11 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Sorry, you spent 2500 plat on a Scoliac riven

Sorry you couldn't manage to read how Rivens work or why paying for things that will change, no matter what the players say, is entirely on you.

12 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

At this point I don't even know if they play their own game.

Do you play it or do you go out of your way to make sure you play as little of it as possible?

13 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Give your game a direction.

Away from you seems like a fantastic direction.

[trst]

The community isn't some hive mind with one single vision of what it wants out of the game. It's a group of individuals with differing opinions and ideas on every different topic, aspect, and issue the game has.

Some players don't care for endurance runs, others do. Some felt melee trivialized the game, others enjoyed that it did. Some accept the ever changing nature of the game (and Rivens), others don't.

What they did was touch on parts of the community that have felt neglected the last several years. If you're not part of that then you now know what it's felt like for the other half.

[99Moon_Dancer]

Idk the Update feels rushed because "everybody" screams when update

the game gave me so far 1.8k hours of fun and is my most played game (except Minecraft)

if you have nothing to do in the game create a clan build a dojo go conclave or play something else come back later 

u guys scream update then u scream because u got one 

I'd like to see more smaller updates with a few bugs that are fixed within a week and not big updates with bugs for months

Edited November 1, 2019 by Injected_Pie

[BDMblue]

K Rivens change all the time. It’s been in the fine print forever. Still we get the I spent 20$ on this thing that I know can change and you changed it!

just don’t bring it up. You knew the risk and you lost. If you want to win and not lose sell Rivens don’t buy.

[a_fish.]

agreed, the melee changes are absolutely horrible and i'm really not in the mood to start picking up weapons, waste my time leveling them up, forma them and mod them to "experiment", whips now are useless, condition overload is just another mod you turn into endo, same with maiming strike and what the hell did they do to blood rush? why?

and this old blood stuff there's no structure to it, to explain people how to actually play this, the patch notes sound like a bed time story and in game nothing, what am I working towards? just a grind for MR?

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

K Rivens change all the time. It’s been in the fine print forever.

There's a difference between gradually nerfing a stat and outright slashing it out of relevance.

It's not just Rivens. Blood Rush can not scale up even when using Sacrificial Steel because it's now based on base crit.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Jarriaga

[ant99999]

When are we getting "Warframe Forums: pretending whining proves a point edition"?

 

Also

20 минут назад, SeRialPiXel сказал:

Sorry, you spent 2500 plat on a Scoliac riven or wasted 4 hours being AFK every day for a week in a mission to roll that slot machine? Sorry, it's dead now.

Maybe at least this situation will finally hint you about what the developers really want of Rivens?

[Gurpgork]

1 minute ago, ant99999 said:

Maybe at least this situation will finally hint you about what the developers really want of Rivens?

I'm not sure that their implementation really reflects any of their intended goals. They were supposed to give boosts to weak weapons, but they ended up being basically Destiny's weird RNG stat system, only monetized in a way that creates trade mafias. 

[ant99999]

1 минуту назад, Gurpgork сказал:

I'm not sure that their implementation really reflects any of their intended goals. They were supposed to give boosts to weak weapons, but they ended up being basically Destiny's weird RNG stat system, only monetized in a way that creates trade mafias. 

Then you'd probably agree that having them buff such broken weapons as Polearms and Whips even further totally was expected to be changed eventually

[Shinigami_Greed]

These guys have more interaction with their community than any other developer of any other game that has ever existed.  They have bi weekly devstreams, Meg and Rebecca playing during Prime Time and answering question, not to mention Steve's hilarious update streams.  I have never genuinely liked the people behind a game as much as the DE team, ever. 

They're about as in touch with their community as it is physically possible.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Shinigami_Greed

[Gurpgork]

3 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Then you'd probably agree that having them buff such broken weapons as Polearms and Whips even further totally was expected to be changed eventually

Definitely. And honestly Maiming Strike should have been nerfed pretty hard soon after Shadow Debt ended, if not while it was still running.

Although my point was stepping more into the territory of "Rivens were a mistake to begin with." 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Gurpgork

[Shinigami_Greed]

1 minute ago, Gurpgork said:

Definitely. And honestly Maiming Strike should have been nerfed pretty hard soon after Shadow Debt ended, if not while it was still running.

Although my point was stepping more into the territory of "Rivens were a mistake to begin with." 

I think all rivens should be put in line with dual stat mods.  They were a mistake, but they can work if you keep them in line with mods that already exist. 

[Shadowhaunt89]

I don't really see in what way melee as a whole was nerfed. They gave all weapons upwards of a 100% base damage increase, better range, and some combination of increased crit damage, crit chance, and/or status chance. I never really used channeling all that much, so it going away and being replaced by a one shot big attack is no loss to me. If I needed channeling to boost my damage to keep killing enemies I either needed to switch to my gun or just extract already. The only thing nerfed I suppose is builds that use condition overload and the like that relied on building up the hit counter? Just because one build gets nerfed doesn't meant all of melee got nerfed. I've never used those mods, don't even have them. News flash: they aren't necessary. I can play sorties and kill enemies in the 100's just fine without them. Sure this may mean people can't melt level 200+ enemies or whatever while spending forever in high tier endless missions, but so what? Those modes are built to scale to the point the game surpasses human capability. For the content with a definitive objective melee still works just fine and overall is more effective with the stat buffs.

[TARINunit9]

38 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

They promised they would have brought other melees on pair with slide weapons, while not killing slide

If you genuinely believed they weren't going to nerf Maiming Body Rush Overload into the ground for all eternity, they you have no idea what they actually promised

[trst]

18 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

There's a difference between gradually nerfing a stat and outright slashing it out of relevance.

It's not just Rivens. Blood Rush can not scale up even when using Sacrificial Steel because it's now based on base crit.

Except gradual changes don't work either.

Look at how much people doom and gloom over their rivens getting nerfed repeatedly. Hek people in this group have even been asking for DE to just drop them to minimum dispositions outright and go from there so they don't need to see gradual changes.

Plus how does one gradually change something that warrants a change in core mechanics? The issues with CO and BR was how they scaled, how exactly does one slowly change that? And just shifting values so it retained the same effect (somehow) with the mechanic change just leads back into the first issue anyways of people watching their mods get "worse" over time.

[TARINunit9]

Just now, Shadowhaunt89 said:

I don't really see in what way melee as a whole was nerfed. They gave all weapons upwards of a 100% base damage increase

500% in some cases

The people feeling the nerfs are the small subset of people who both had Maiming Body Rush Overload + CC/CD/Damage Rivens that could kill level 500 Bombards, and who actually enjoyed doing so for 3 hours a day several days a week. And these are the people who will -- not necessarily through fault of their own, this is human nature talking -- feel the most entitled to that level of power

[ant99999]

11 минут назад, Gurpgork сказал:

Rivens were a mistake to begin with.

Which is fair. The most proper way to make weaker weapons relevant is to make goddamn balance patches.

[SordidDreams]

49 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

I don't even know if they play their own game.

Not without dev cheats on, that's very obvious.

It's a real shame too, since the kuva lich system is really cool. The only thing it really needs is to not be a separate gamemode, they just need to show up wherever you happen to be like syndicate assassins.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, trst said:

Except gradual changes don't work either.

Look at how much people doom and gloom over their rivens getting nerfed repeatedly. Hek people in this group have even been asking for DE to just drop them to minimum dispositions outright and go from there so they don't need to see gradual changes.

Plus how does one gradually change something that warrants a change in core mechanics? The issues with CO and BR was how they scaled, how exactly does one slowly change that? And just shifting values so it retained the same effect (somehow) with the mechanic change just leads back into the first issue anyways of people watching their mods get "worse" over time.

People can adapt easier to gradual changes. They have a hard time accepting drastic big changes. That's just psychology.

Even though Condition Overload is no longer exponential, the 3 status cap originally pitched was ditched and can scale up for as many status procs as there are including the new lifted status. This can easily add-up to 960% extra damage at 8 status effects, which is what my CO builds are optimized for. Condition Overload's potential damage was heavily nerfed by making it no longer work exponentially, but it can still easily mow down level 165 Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards thanks to the base damage buff. If DE is thinking about scaling the game around 150-200 enemies then it is in a sweet spot.

With current Blood Rush on the other hand, you hit the scaling ceiling a lot sooner than that because you are no longer adding more multipliers or additive damage in a way that feels close to what current CO is. Additional crit tiers by increasing the base buff, an increased combo counter cap beyond 12x so you can continue to scale up, or even reverting back the formula so it takes full crit chance into account (Even if at current buff) would all serve to close the gap between current CO builds and current BR builds.

Otherwise you are looking at a 4-way nerf for BR:

1) The combo counter cap.

2) Losing it all using heavy attacks (At base).

3) The revised calculation using base crit rather than total crit.

4) The actual buff value of 60%.

That's on top of outright killing crit chance as a desirable Riven trait, affecting all existing builds and rivens in a much more drastic way than Condition Overload considering the difference in damage potential between the two.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

That's on top of outright killing crit chance as a desirable Riven trait

Wait, what? What did they do to cc on rivens?

[Shadowhaunt89]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

Not without dev cheats on, that's very obvious.

It's a real shame too, since the kuva lich system is really cool. The only thing it really needs is to not be a separate gamemode, they just need to show up wherever you happen to be like syndicate assassins.

Showing up like the assassins is a horrible idea. With the lich only being killable if you have the correct 3 requiem mods that means you can be going along in a mission and have something you can't get rid of chasing you around. I can see a load of situations where that results in mission failure over something you have no control of nor recourse to solve.