Feedback on the recent update

[MPonder]

People just don't understand how grind it is to get your riven, days, sometimes even months looking for them on sites, trade chat, etc. And the plat grind.

[General_Durandal]

1 hour ago, Shadowhaunt89 said:

I can see a load of situations where that results in mission failure over something you have no control of nor recourse to solve.

Yet another reason to ignore Lich creation all together.

(unless you are rich and can just buy the 800+plat pack that has everything you need to kill lichs)

[GrayArchon]

6 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

What?

So, you're saying if you payed essentially 100+$ for something,
and it all of a sudden become worthless and useless compared to something you can get for free in game,
that it was the buyers fault for, what? Not being able to see the future and know that would happen?

Anyone would be complaining about that.

Rivens were stated at the start, as soon as they were introduced, to be changed periodically. If you pay $100+ for something, you better know what you're buying. If you buy a used car with 90.000 miles on it, you better do your research and find out that the timing belt on that model of car needs to be replaced at 100.000 miles. If you end up surprised by that repair bill, that's on you for not knowing what you're getting into.

[General_Durandal]

5 minutes ago, MPonder said:

People just don't understand how grind it is to get your riven, days, sometimes even months looking for them on sites, trade chat, etc. And the plat grind.

And then DE nerfs the riven you spent months getting, or 1k+ plat on, making it worth less then before.

I knew that would be a problem, which is why I never looked for rivens directly.
If I got one, cool, i'll unvail it, roll it a couple times, that's that.
I did roll two rivens 20+ times though, a Grakata Riven, and a Ignis Riven.
Both of which are pretty useless now compared to most things.

[PurrrningBoop]

4 минуты назад, MPonder сказал:

People just don't understand how grind it is to get your riven, days, sometimes even months looking for them on sites, trade chat, etc. And the plat grind.

Counter argument: people realise exactly how taxing the riven grind is, including disposition changes, and do not chase the god roll.

[MPonder]

The thing is, Rivens should be the end game of a Weapon, other mods are so easy to get, forma it is also easy, Primed is just about waiting for baro. Other games is not just get the Weapon and you are good, you have to enhance it, change its rolls, put gems, talismans, plates, whatever, then it finally became strong.

Rivens should be this, but that RNG is worse than what Korean MMORPGs have.

[Chappie]

8 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

Counter argument: people realise exactly how taxing the riven grind is, including disposition changes, and do not chase the god roll.

Ding.  I have around 40 veiled rivens since they started "changing things".  The effort vs reward is no longer worth it IMO.    If I find a weapon I really like...I just buy the riven and start rolling on it.    That happens a couple times a year so I have around 50-80k kuva to have fun with.  

Edited November 1, 2019 by Chappie1975

[General_Durandal]

5 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Rivens were stated at the start, as soon as they were introduced, to be changed periodically. If you pay $100+ for something, you better know what you're buying. If you buy a used car with 90.000 miles on it, you better do your research and find out that the timing belt on that model of car needs to be replaced at 100.000 miles. If you end up surprised by that repair bill, that's on you for not knowing what you're getting into.

You can repair that car with more parts and money.
You can't repair a riven after it's been nerfed. (DE can by buffing it though)

I don't buy rivens, because even a perfect godly riven is a waste of money on anything but the meta weapons I don't use.
10 + 100% is 20
20 + 100% is 40
30 + 200% is 90
100 + 1% is 101
The strongest weapons will always be the strongest even with the weakest rivens.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

At the very least it should give people pause when dealing with rivens now. A lot of hard work of platinum can be wasted outside of rivens bring adjusted, new gameplay additions going forward can obliterate them and that alone should make the community push for a change when it comes to rivens.

[General_Durandal]

3 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

I have around 50-80k kuva to have fun with.  

[GrayArchon]

6 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

You can repair that car with more parts and money.
You can't repair a riven after it's been nerfed. (DE can by buffing it though)

It's not about repairing the car; it's about knowing what you're getting into.

Also, a lot of the time, replacing the timing belt costs more than the value of the car (when it's up there in mileage), so you're really better off not buying it. That's the point I was trying to make.

7 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

10 + 100% is 20
20 + 100% is 40
30 + 200% is 90
100 + 1% is 101
The strongest weapons will always be the strongest even with the weakest rivens.

This is hyperbole you pulled out your ass and you know it.

The range of rivens isn't 1%-200%, and the range of weapon damage isn't 10-100.

The highest disposition melee weapon, from what I can see, is the Amphis, which as of the update has 130 damage. The lowest disposition melee weapon is the Zenistar, which has 298 damage – 2.3 times as much as the Amphis. With a riven, the Amphis can have +336% damage, bringing it to 567 damage. With a riven, the Zenistar can get +112% damage, bringing it to 632 damage. Now, you're right that the Zenistar is still higher, but only by about 11%, so they are now roughly in line with each other. Not this 20 compared to 101 nonsense.

[Helch0rn]

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

The update
Alright so let's sum it up:
Ember: it was my most played frame, Ember is by nature a DPS - that worked in low level missions, yes, but still a DPS. What is Ember now? A Tank? That strips armor? Why would you ever wanna use ember now: if you want a tank you have plenty of other better choices, if you want something to strip armor there is much better. She has no place nor identity.

Haven't tried Ember yet but someone from my clan says she is good now. (at least if you count killing level 155 enemies in no time as good)

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Vauban: call it a rework, feels clunky at best. But hey, I think this was the best part of the update tbh.
Kuva Lich: one question. What is the reward behind all this mess? You do realize there are no incentives behind it aside from the Mastery points? I mean, if you introduce a major new part of the game you want it to appeal to the vast majority of players right? Ok, why would I ever go trough the pain of farming all the new parazon mods and all for a Kuva Seer. So much potential lost.

you do know there is more than one weapon right?

and if you don't like the weapon just convert them and you get some helpers

and if you don't like the system at all you can still ignore it.

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Melee nerfs: What can I say, thanks for killing melee! That's what I mean with losing touch with your community: imagine killing an entire system that had its strenght in scaling to implement one that has none of that and with the only puprose of looking cool. A disclaimer on this: I've been always against those youtubers who start these crusades against "DE catering to new players", but who does this new melee benefits? Really, did anyone at DE even jump into simulacrum and thought it was okay?

what nerf? I literally can not understand what about the new system is a nerf for you.

I got more range and a ton more damage on my melee weapon. I am not forced to finish the combo animations anymore. dedicated melee mode is back. so what is worse now than it was last week?

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

What we were promised and lack of trust
They promised they would have brought other melees on pair with slide weapons, while not killing slide, yet that's what they did. Sorry, you spent 2500 plat on a Scoliac riven or wasted 4 hours being AFK every day for a week in a mission to roll that slot machine? Sorry, it's dead now.

if you spend ridiculous amounts of money on rivens then that is your fault.

If DE would refuse to rip a bandaid off just because someone spent money on it, then nothing would ever change

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Did the same for catchmoon? Well we'll kill it now. I am ok with nerfs, but considering you introduced rivens which is a pain of a system and then acting like they were never introduced and PUNISHING your playerbase's effort is a joke.  Good to know, I guess after riven dispositions crushing your efforts and the fact that you basically don't care about them why would I ever try again to spend time or money into the only resemblance of endgame we have.

again: if you spend ridiculous amounts of money on something risky then that is your fault.

it's not DE's job to make sure that your random item does not lose its value if they change something.

I love the catchmoon and my catchmoon riven is worthless now, but even I know something is seriously wrong when it becomes the only weapon that is used.

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

The future
Just wanna toss it out there: imagine in a few months from now when they'll nerf blink for archwings. Goodluck with your Eidolon runs! You will surely still be able to do what you do now when you'll have blink on cooldown.

a change that only affects the ultra tryhard minmaxers (and not even all of them since I have seen people use Operators to dash across the plains instead of archwing)

filthy casuals like me can enjoy not being insulted by salty minmaxers because you did not jump into your archwing, blink across the plains and hack 2585675 lures within the first 5 seconds of nightfall.

I think this game could use some slowdown, but that is a discussion for another day

2 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

At this point I don't even know if they play their own game. Melee: out of focus. Ember: out of focus. Kuva Lich: out of focus. I've been playing this game for years, and it's soul crushing to see it go downhill for dumb decisions like these. Give your game a direction.

the things you list are very in focus. just not for you.

sure there are things that can be improved (like a different way to get requiem relics that does not require me to play the god aweful kuva siphons) but overall the update was a success for me

[ArcadiaRose]

1 hour ago, ant99999 said:

The second is relative power creep, when the new guns have flat out better stats than old, just because they're new. And this thing must be avoided at all cost, no matter how seductive it can be for the devs, because that is what will ruin the balance of any game eventually, and guess what, will lead to threads like this one. New weapons must be exciting because they are new, not because they are better. If you make a hypothetical Tenora as good as a hypothetical Soma Prime, good for you, but then please make Tenora Prime equal to the regular one, or if that's not suitable, make the regular Tenora weaker

Okay let's entertain this idea. So if newer equipment generally never has better stats, say equal or lower, then the only thing that's going for them is newness and maybe some exciting thing to go along with it (I.e.: the sword beam from that two handed nikana I can't recall the name of at the moment). Newness and some fancy gimmick only have so much welcome room. At some point for a sizeable number of players these principles lose their shine. And if the weapon happens to be weaker than older weapons then it's subject to disappointment from players on launch. Galvacord, Plink, and many others, they're all new weapons, don't fall under power creep and are generally never talked about, barely anyone seems to care. There was nothing satisfying in their release.

 

"Make Tenora Prime equal to the regular one, or ... make the regular Tenora weaker." Really? That's a pretty hot take. Once again, what's the point? Why even bother with Tenora Prime if overall it's as good as the regular Tenora? Why, because it'll look better? Sound better? Once again, the aesthetic pleasure eventually loses it's welcome and the effectiveness of the weapon will decide it prevails. On the other hand, nerfing the regular Tenora in favor of making the new Tenora Prime more wanted? As if the community wants any more nerfing, let alone one that really isn't needed. Congratulations you've created artificial value.
 

Relative power creep is nearly inevitable. And if you think there's an alternative or a solution to it then what've you have proposed really isn't it. The thing is true balance is never the answer, everything becomes too similar. In theory, imbalance is okay, so long as certain things can reach the same benchmark. A weapon can be 3 or 5 times more OP than another but it could be acceptable so long as they can both succeed in clearing higher level content. On top of that, not everything can rise to be an endgame killer. As much as I'd love to keep using my first Lato, I know at some point I have to put it down.

[Hypernaut1]

i have no sympathy for anyone that obsesses over Rivens. You have no one but yourself to blame for buying it with plat.

[General_Durandal]

8 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

It's not about repairing the car; it's about knowing what you're getting into.

Also, a lot of the time, replacing the timing belt costs more than the value of the car (when it's up there in mileage), so you're really better off not buying it. That's the point I was trying to make.

This is hyperbole you pulled out your ass and you know it.

The range of rivens isn't 1%-200%, and the range of weapon damage isn't 10-100.

The highest disposition melee weapon, from what I can see, is the Amphis, which as of the update has 130 damage. The lowest disposition melee weapon is the Zenistar, which has 298 damage – 2.3 times as much as the Amphis. With a riven, the Amphis can have +336% damage, bringing it to 567 damage. With a riven, the Zenistar can get +112% damage, bringing it to 632 damage. Now, you're right that the Zenistar is still higher, but only by about 11%, so they are now roughly in line with each other. Not this 20 compared to 101 nonsense.

That sounds like the biggest scam ever. Hey, this little belt thing costs more then the whole car just to replace!
~
Using melee weapons, which all just got a massive buff as an example?
Now do the same with primary weapons.
Baza does 16 damage per bullet, Grakata does 11, Prisma Grakata does 15,
Boltor does 25, Soma does 10, Soma Prime does 12,
Zhuge Does 100, Agronak does 37.
Zhuge and Agronak are the strongest auto fire primaries, with a 4 Riven disposition.
Soma is the weakest auto-fire primary, with 2 riven disposition.
Grakata is the 2nd weakest with 4 riven Disposition.
Non of them are worth investing in, either they are too weak right now,
or will be nerfed later.

My Prisma Grakata does 126.? damage with a 107.7% chance to deal 9.6x damage. (about 1260 per bullet, 13 bullets per second)
My Zhuge Prime foes 77?.? damage with a 101.9% chance to deal 5.6x damage. (about 4620 per arrow, 5 arrows per second)
16380 damage per second, vs 23100 damage per second. They have the same riven disposition.
The Grakata one has +135%damage/ +132%crit chance, and +104%crit damage. Fully modded
The Zhuge one has +140% Crit chance / +70%toxic damage / +40% Corpus damaged. one mod slot is empty.

[GrayArchon]

37 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

That sounds like the biggest scam ever. Hey, this little belt thing costs more then the whole car just to replace!

It's not a scam, it's just how cars work. Using this depreciation site, you can see that a 10-year-old car that initially cost $30k is now worth about $882. After 10 years, it's getting up there in mileage, it's time to replace the timing belt. This procedure can cost up to $900 dollars (mostly in labour costs). The cost to repair the car is literally more than it's worth. This exact scenario has happened to me. It's why timing chains are coming back into fashion, because they don't need to be replaced as often.

43 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

16380 damage per second, vs 23100 damage per second. They have the same riven disposition.

You're taking two weapons with the same riven disposition and showing how you can get different DPS numbers on them. I was saying that you can take two weapons with wildly different riven dispositions, and the riven will help the weaker weapon come up to the level of the stronger one.

[Lazframe]

I don't wanna spend time replying because if anything happens it will be because the devs actually take matters into their own hands and listen to feedback, which is what I gave.

All I can say to these comments is that it's just sad and disrespectful.

Referring to those who took the time and effort to either learn (in the case of Eidolons) something and then being denigrated for doing it just because you don't resonate with this part of the game shows so little interest for the health of the game it's scary.

"You shouldn't have spent time and money into rivens". I can't believe I'm surrounded by people who instead of pointing out when something is wrong (and ways to fix them as I did in a previous post) prefer to cope with it and show anger and toxicity towards those who care.

Real disappointment. This game might be going downhill, and it might be because of you. Have fun in your dolly-dressing game.

[AzureTerra]

I think its more that certain parts of the community have lost touch with reality. I do always have a good laugh when X riven at Y price is no longer effective when you have only yourself to blame for paying that price.

[D3adSuperGator]

So let me get this straight. Your complaining about them adding extra systems into the game, just because. And you're mad at them for nerfing melee, because you'd rather helicopter around the map for hours on end? I don't know about you, but spamming one button for hours on end sounds kinda boring to me.

[KnightOwl_]

It seems the 5 hour endurance diaper community is just finding out that tiny hardcore sections of the playerbase are not taken into account when balancing for the overall game is considered.  This is nothing new in gaming at all.  

[GrimAtrament]

3 minutes ago, OmegaDonut said:

It seems the 5 hour endurance diaper community is just finding out that tiny hardcore sections of the playerbase are not taken into account when balancing for the overall game is considered.  This is nothing new in gaming at all.  

who the hell does 5 hour endurance? i do a hour long at most. who the hell has time for  5 hour endurance with jobs, family obligations etc.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Not quite. Chroma was calculated twice, while BR simply used your total crit chance first without calculating twice.

No, I thought chroma's damage buff was originally multiplicative, added after base damage mods. Now its additive

[Joltyboi]

5 hours ago, SeRialPiXel said:

while the whole world migrates to Destiny

 

[XzWasPzX]

This game begun as a fantasy power, now that the power is gone some ask why others complain... Well, just use the brain. The new melee system hits hard on the main core of the game, Im not gonna blame them for "screaming" about this, I would ask the devs this simply: where are you taking us? Whats the goal now?

[Melanholic7]

Give us back old Blood rush or this is a bullcrap. 

And yea, nice part of the game - farm kuva, farm rivens, roll them, efforts and etc aaaand they are gone. Wow, nice rewards for efforts. Nice system. 

And you are right, Kuva liches are just couple new good weapons. thats all. Once u got them - this whole huge system will be not useful. 

New kavat - with useless mods. Why? why cant u add any usefull buff to him? ok, another mastery fodder.