weeding out the vets?

[FurianStorm]

It took me a while but I read this entire thread.

I can understand that some people complain about the changes.
I would be sad too when say my fulmin would get "nerfed". Simply because I love the weapon.
It's versatile and quite powerfull. Yes its my to go to primary.
But on the other hand I do feel said cause I got so many other primary weapons in my arsenal.
I don't want to be rooted to just 1 gun. Even if its "meta" or not.

Same now with melee changes. I had to wait a while until plaguestar came to get my plaque kripath.
It was my to go to melee. But I hate how it looks. I find it ugly looking.
My prefered stylish melee is the good ol Kitana.
And the changes now offer me the oppertunity to use it again.
And even to try one of the many melee weapons I have.
Do they all deal as much damage? Propably not. Is that the point? I don't know.

I myself play how I want to play. (with what is given to me)
I like Ash a lot. Is he super usefull at higher levels?
Compared to say Saryn... nope he is not.
But I don't care. I love how he looks (kokage skin) 
I can strip (some) armor. be invisible.
And those are basicly the only moves I use of him.
But thats how I like to play him. I don't care if people agree with that or not.
This is how I do it.

So yes people are people and will always complain. Others will always look at the bright side.
Me? I like to think I'm in the middle. I can aqknowledge both sides.
But in the end I play the game because I like the game.
The freedom in movement it gives me even if jump for the 1000th time on top of a door.
The fluid switching from shooting to slashing.
(I mean I shoot till magazine is out then hack away) I don't care for aplaying status with secundary. then primary and then get my melee counter up so I can 1 hack the mob.
This is what is beautifull about this game.
You can play the way you like it. Given withing a few paramathers.

 

TLDR:

So yeah I play the game because I want to play. Nobody is twisting my arm to either play the game or playing a different game.
And that is how it should be.
Complain if you want to play. Nobody else is making you play the game.
Praise the game if you want to praise it. Nobody is  paying you for your praises.
 

*mic drop

[Shinigami_Greed]

10 minutes ago, FurianStorm said:

TLDR:

 

So yeah I play the game because I want to play. Nobody is twisting my arm to either play the game or playing a different game.
And that is how it should be.
Complain if you want to play. Nobody else is making you play the game.
Praise the game if you want to praise it. Nobody is paying you for your praises.
 

*mic drop

Someone finally says it.

I don't praise DE because I'm looking for praise, or special treatment.  I praise them because they interact with us, they exceed their past work constant, and really act and sound like they give a S#&$ about their creation.  And Warframe feels great to play because of it.  Its why I've been playing the same game for over six years now.  And counting.

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

10 minutes ago, FurianStorm said:

I would be sad too when say my fulmin would get "nerfed". Simply because I love the weapon.

Well, you don't have long to wait for said nerf, lol.  Because of how many people were using catchmoon DE has already stated they are going to be "looking" at Fulmin and Arca Plasmor.  I too use the Fulmin quite a bit, so I really hope with this raging dumpster fire they set off that they ultimately forget.  Its power is about perfect anyway (6 forma it falls off pretty hard around 110-120ish, in my experience) and range on the "shotgun" is roughly half what catchmoon was, so its not medium-long sniping like catchmoon allegedly could.

Anyway, well said.  That's what's great about this game, playing how you want to play.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

On 2019-11-02 at 2:30 PM, jojokaizer said:

are you dense? the point is that you build a weapon to kill level 500 enemies or get red crits, now you're told hey, you wasted your time and tough luck. it has nothing to do with skill or crutches. its about what you spent your time on to achieve.

You usually build frames to deal with enemies in the level range of 300-10K.  Banshee doesn't care one bit your melee weapon got nerfed, you can fire a 3 round burst out of a tiberon prime without a riven and murder a great deal of enemies thanks to banshee.  Or use kohm, tigris, lanka, rubico, anything that can be used with banshee sonar.  

I love the classic conspiracy theory that DE wants to drive away any players.  They are a business, what possible reason could they have to drive away players whether they've been playing for 5 years or 1 month.  

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, BLI7Z said:

Channeling should have been polished and made more useful instead of being removed for heavy attacks. 

That's why its being changed into an uber melee mode for the next phase of melee changes.

[George_PPS]

@FurianStorm

If you like how DE nerfs your favorite weapons so you are “forced” to use something else, sooner or later all weapons are nerfed into mediocrity. What we should ask DE is to buff weaker weapons so people have more choices.  Are you okay with whatever the best and most used and most fun weapons of yours always end up being nerfed to the ground after farming, building, crafting it? Why are you defending DE needing your favorite weapons and taking away the fun? Does it sound right to you? 

[Lucifer490]

19 hours ago, ebrl said:

It's still better than not fixing it for another three years. I despise *your* mindset in return!

As i said, this wasn't a fix. It was a nerf. Also, nothing in my earlier reply indicated a "mindset". What i stated was fact. 

Unfortunately, people are too busy making fun of people with valid arguments, calling them "salty" (ironic) and criticizing their idea of fun.

[goatwin]

On 2019-11-03 at 2:35 AM, jojokaizer said:

if they don't want ppl to reach level 500+ enemies then make the ENEMIES harder, don't nerf us and our time put in to the game? does that make more sense? cause it sure does to me.

Make enemies harder how? The jump in damage numbers you make between putting on CO against any other mods are so exponentially bigger (millions of ticks difference)  that the only way to make them harder is by giving enemies damage immunities, or slapping on more armor to the point CO can't one shot them. by that point, any other builds will be so far behind you're stuck with CO on every build. Does that make even more sense? It definitely does for me. 

[goatwin]

14 hours ago, George_PPS said:

@FurianStorm

If you like how DE nerfs your favorite weapons so you are “forced” to use something else, sooner or later all weapons are nerfed into mediocrity. What we should ask DE is to buff weaker weapons so people have more choices.  Are you okay with whatever the best and most used and most fun weapons of yours always end up being nerfed to the ground after farming, building, crafting it? Why are you defending DE needing your favorite weapons and taking away the fun? Does it sound right to you? 

What... How? Soon all weapons will be nerfed to mediocrity? What kind of logic is this? Do even realise how dumb this 'slippery slope'  logic you are using sounds?

[MPonder]

Primary ... Secondary ...

[Skaleek]

18 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

they look at literally just one number, and nerf it.  You know where I saw the most catchmoons?  Arbitration.

This is a really good point. Not to mention right before they pulled those numbers was the Arbitration rework. I for one never used catchmoon until the recent rework of arbitration, for which i brought the catchmoon solely for the drones. I'm sure a lot of content creators were also pushing the catchmoon for use on Arbitration farming as well.

I really hadn't thought about this at all, well done.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

its changed befor, it will change again

I miss the days of actual charge attacks.

warframe is forever in beta. it dies once it isnt, so expect it to forever shake things up.

personally Iv been into other thigns as of late, as it seems like the soul of the game is gone for me.

[Gurpgork]

15 hours ago, George_PPS said:

What we should ask DE is to buff weaker weapons so people have more choices.

The problem with this is that it pushes up the power curve of the entire game. DE could just buff weaker weapons instead of nerfing outliers, but then you have to fight level 160 enemies to get the same challenge you'd get out of 110. 

If you continue to make players more and more powerful without buffing enemies at the same time, then the content of the old balance point becomes trivial. This is how you end up with players sneering at missions at Sortie level and asking for a real endgame. 

This kind of power creeping is exactly why we have so many players in this game who feel like the game cannot challenge them unless they do 3 hour endurance runs. 

[KnightOwl_]

15 hours ago, George_PPS said:

@FurianStorm

If you like how DE nerfs your favorite weapons so you are “forced” to use something else, sooner or later all weapons are nerfed into mediocrity. What we should ask DE is to buff weaker weapons so people have more choices.  Are you okay with whatever the best and most used and most fun weapons of yours always end up being nerfed to the ground after farming, building, crafting it? Why are you defending DE needing your favorite weapons and taking away the fun? Does it sound right to you? 

Weapon balance is relative to each other, so nerfing one outlier is the same thing as buffing everything else, just a lot less time consuming and with less power creep and less a chance of simply creating another OP weapon due for a nerf down the line.  It’s silly from a developer time perspective to “just buff the other guns!” when nerfing the outlier accomplishes the same goal:  open up more options to the meta.  
 

I didn’t mind the catchmoon nerf because for its design the gun is still strong, and now it doesn’t completely eclipse other options and I can change up my style or tactic without gimping myself because a Swiss army knife weapon got rebalanced.   If “fun” for you is being game genie cheat code OP stick to 100% single player games. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by OmegaDonut

[TheHappyTyranid]

Don't you just hate it when things cause people to disagree?

Personally, while I'm not a 'vet', I can say these changes are kinda good and bad. Melee weapons are more rediculously good as a whole, but certain outliers have been brought back into line with the others. Sure, I'm able to kill lower level enemies a lot easier now with almost any weapon, BUT I cannot do melee for sustained periods of time when everything at level 100 is shooting at the poor little Nova I brought to Hydron.

Melee, at this point, is just a boost for 'endgame' frames, at least in my opinion. Frames like Inaros, Nidus, Rhino, Nezha, and other frames of similar caliber can use this to the fullest. Frames like Nova, Zephyr, Nekros, and others now seem to have a harder time in missions for me when I use only melee. 

(Though I did find that with the new block-hit system, I'm able to move REALLY fast as Assimilate Nyx. Just equip the Ankyros Prime and bump the attack speed up to 2.31 and I'll fly across the map.)

[SilentMobius]

On 2019-11-02 at 7:11 PM, jojokaizer said:

logged on today to check out the new melee changes.  is this DE's way of getting rid of the vets and paving a way for new players with new monetization systems and grind?

I'm an MR 27 founder so I probably qualify as a "vet". So far much happier with new melee than I was with the the old melee, I still think it can be improved (The Closers need work, they are too slow) But it's a marked improvement.

Vauban and Ember are better. Not sure they are good enough yet, but it's tough to say without more time to get a feel for them.

Edited November 4, 2019 by SilentMobius

[CeePee]

For anyone caring enough, just check OP's profile (/profile ingame) to see what kind of people regard themselves as veterans.

[Berserkerkitten]

^ yeah, it's almost as if "veteran" was some pointless, meaningless term people sling around to make themselves sound more important or knowledgeable than they are.

[Cubewano]

16 hours ago, George_PPS said:

@FurianStorm

If you like how DE nerfs your favorite weapons so you are “forced” to use something else, sooner or later all weapons are nerfed into mediocrity. What we should ask DE is to buff weaker weapons so people have more choices.  Are you okay with whatever the best and most used and most fun weapons of yours always end up being nerfed to the ground after farming, building, crafting it? Why are you defending DE needing your favorite weapons and taking away the fun? Does it sound right to you? 

blindly buffing things into infinity is a way to inevitably crash and burn, and comes at its costs to the gameplay experience. why should de redesign the entire weapon pool to protect the state of a single outlier weapon? why should weapon diversity be surrendered, and enemy encounters be redesigned to preserve a single weapon? do you believe that single weapon that much funner than all of present weapon diversity that it'd be work that monumental work load to achieve? would it really stave you over for as long as that kind of work would take? buffing everything to the state that catchmoon was isn't some token effort that can be done in the blink of an eye, much less is the treatment of the balance ramification that would follow such weapon restructuring. and would you expect de to do that everytime a new stage of power creep crops up rather than just a nerf the single thing? because nerf is a scary word and must be avoided at all costs, or at least that's what you've been told by someone loudly so it must be true? seems a bit nonsensical doesn't it. 

[jojokaizer]

2 hours ago, CeePee said:

For anyone caring enough, just check OP's profile (/profile ingame) to see what kind of people regard themselves as veterans.

so actually playing on launch, then on and off through the patches means I m just a new warframe player right? or is it because I m not MR27 with all the grind done?  I played enough of the game to know good changes and bad ones.  this melee change is idiotic and limits warframe from what it was. now it's just another streamlined looter.

[pauli133]

The only limits I'm seeing are being placed by players who refuse to change how they select and build their tools.

A few things that worked before in specific content no longer work the same way, and players must now adapt to get the sensation of having more power than others that they seek. Good. That's healthy.

[Skaleek]

2 hours ago, Berserkerkitten said:

^ yeah, it's almost as if "veteran" was some pointless, meaningless term people sling around to make themselves sound more important or knowledgeable than they are.

I mean, i use it to define my demographic when posting. I think it is meaningful to know whether a player is coming from a new player's perspective or from that of one that's been around for a while. Context is everything.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Skaleek

[Berserkerkitten]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Skaleek:

I mean, i use it to define my demographic when posting. I think it is meaningful to know whether a player is coming from a new player's perspective or from that of one that's been around for a while. Context is everything.

Thing is, all you ultimately get is a bunch of snobs going through people's profiles like "hurrdurr, look at the rabble calling themselves veterans nowadays" as if they were something better and ... eh. Sorry. Wasn't referring to you there. That kind of attitude is just so, so stupid. Not yours.

[George_PPS]

4 hours ago, goatwin said:

What... How? Soon all weapons will be nerfed to mediocrity? What kind of logic is this? Do even realise how dumb this 'slippery slope'  logic you are using sounds?

Do you realize you have bad spelling and how DE has been nerfing many players' favorite weapons since 18 months ago? Wake up. How dump is your spelling. 

[George_PPS]

4 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

The problem with this is that it pushes up the power curve of the entire game. DE could just buff weaker weapons instead of nerfing outliers, but then you have to fight level 160 enemies to get the same challenge you'd get out of 110. 

If you continue to make players more and more powerful without buffing enemies at the same time, then the content of the old balance point becomes trivial. This is how you end up with players sneering at missions at Sortie level and asking for a real endgame. 

This kind of power creeping is exactly why we have so many players in this game who feel like the game cannot challenge them unless they do 3 hour endurance runs. 

You are absolutely right. You point out the problem, which is exactly what needs to be done in some missions but not all missions: making enemies harder in some missions, insteading of nerfing metas and trying to figure out what and how to balance after things are broken. DE now reads spread sheets to eliminate "aberration" which is what all metas are and they are fun and loved by players. This is driving players away. 

On power creep, not all new players prefer easy contents but not all veterans prefer harder contents. DE is messing this up big time by not creating separate game modes for each type of players. Power creep may be "creep"  for some players, but for other players, they like to enjoy power creep. This is totally natural. A separate game mode with enemies starting at level 500 can solve  this, but don't force players to player certain contents that are either too hard or too easy. And no one wants to grind anything if it is tedious and not fun.