weeding out the vets?

[Gurpgork]

9 minutes ago, jojokaizer said:

there were two optimal build archetypes. crit or status. now there is one.  see that how you will, I see it as stripping us of options.  people play games like this to min and max for builds, you take that away. what do you have left?

The pendulum did swing a bit too far in the direction of crit, but even with that, way more weapons are good now than they were before the changes. Before, anything with good range was head and shoulders above everything else, and hybrid weapons were a hell of a lot stronger than anything good only in one or the other. 

15 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

In my opinion DE shouldn't have released this melee rework without touching enemies armor, damage and scaling too. 

 

I don't necessarily think that melee is currently out of line with the rest of the game. I see why it can kind of feel like a country changing from a left hand drive system to a right hand one, but only changing by one category of vehicle at a time, but I also can't blame them for doing it the way they did. The melee rework was a big undertaking, but reworking enemy scaling is a much bigger undertaking and affects way more of the game, so I can't blame them for putting it off. 

[GrimAtrament]

9 minutes ago, jojokaizer said:

I admire your optimism, you're also the people who cheered at all the useless arcanes and mods added to the arb as well.  everything called out are just poor band aids on the broken system they added in. either way, we'll see how it turns out in the next phase. this phase is horrible.

i don't cheer for anything arcane's i find them annoying busy work in general. but nice assumption  and you know what they say about assumptions.

 

also the new fire proc is hardly a band aid. especially when it's basically a universal buff to anything that uses fire

Edited November 2, 2019 by hazerddex

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

15 minutes ago, W4RM3CH4N1C said:

SO what you're saying it you employ zero CC to the target when they can clearly 1-shot you

You're either admitting

a) Melee was in fact too strong

b) You don't use CC when clearly you should do

c) You're lying

Feel free to pick one, any of them will show how weighted your feable argument was.

It's clear you have absolutely zero experience and have no fricken idea what your talking about with Index ENDURANCE runs. CC will not win the game. You have to be able to kill those enemies faster than they can kill you. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

13 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

The melee rework was a big undertaking, but reworking enemy scaling is a much bigger undertaking and affects way more of the game,

They form a symbiotic circle one affects the other. 

[InFlames]

i've yet to see any squad do more then 3 high risk index rounds tbh

[W4RM3CH4N1C]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

It's clear you have absolutely zero experience and have no fricken idea what your talking about with Index ENDURANCE runs. CC will not win the game. You have to be able to kill those enemies faster than they can kill you. 

You inadvertantly proved my point much appreciated

Here's the kicker you're about to learn about CC in warframe, welcome to the other side enjoy your stay:-)

[EXC4L1BUR_PR1ME]

I'm a vet and this is my secondary account, I honestly liked the towers.
Warframe 2013 - 2016 for me, the best years 😄.

My record in survival void +6h (endless) in 2015 (enemy lvl +1000);

My record in survival void +2h with Naramon in 2018 (enemy lvl +200);

My record in survival void +4 minutes and 5 dies in this UPDATE 2019, what....the enemies have 1 shot 1 kill... (enemy lvl +70);

The simulator doesn't work...Ember Prime...pfff...topic pass
Warframe your red numbers are becoming more beautiful. I like them.

You have a good day in general. 

[Sylonus]

3 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Does MR27 4000hr vet actually care about those changes? i'm not sure if they actually have something to do in the game.

MR27 here, 6000 Hours, I care, I hate them, and I still have things to do.

[JohnDrone]

After building an Inaros hunter adrenaline+life strike+melee crit setup for 2 years i feel kinda big deal that life strike is useless now. But the rabbithole is way deeper. Because the real issue is not that a specific mod/build is not as effective as im getting used to or that a couple numbers has changed in an equation. Or that i used to do a good 1h void/mot runs and enjoy an exciting melee fight with fluid and spectacular combos but i simply cant anymore. Because the heavy attack system is a joke (multiplier resets to 0 after a single heavy attack which renders your melee useless, and no u cant raise your multiplier again if u reset it after a certain enemy lvl coz u cant kill enemies with a 0 multiplier), and there are no more combos. Or wait there are... With crimson dervish you can do forward+e wich makes a swirl and a right click+e which makes a jump slam somewhere at random. Yes there are some other possible combos but every single time i tried to use any other button/click combination the result was a perfectly random (unpredictable) useless ugly lame stumbling without hitting enemies. So now instead of a nice long 7 or more steps of fluid and spectacular combo i have 2 basic attacks: a whirlwind and a jump attack. Besides i dont have the comfort of life strike anymore. Furthermore i tried some other melee weapons as well, different modding with similar results. Ie i used to kill some bosses with my kestrel (with a riven) with 3 hits, now i couldnt kill a lvl30 infested with it. Also every single time when i was pressing E with kestrel equipped, something perfetly random bs happened. My frame was either hitting or swirling with it or throwing it.

Is it still possible to stay for 1h or more in void mot? Yeah for sure. Are there some other efficient melee builds? I can imagine. Could i use an other frame with better results? Absolutely. But i dont care. Because i had a part of the game what i used to enjoy and made my day better while offered me some pleasant entertainment. Now i dont have it. Why should i use something what i dont enjoy? Isnt the game supposed to be fun?

Its not about nerfing coz enemy lvl basicly is only a number floating above the enemy, its about that the melee is not enjoyable anymore for me. I can understand, maintaining the servers for hours+ for a couple players is expensive, but pls dont want to tell me that DE needs money so much that they have to give up their famous player friendly policy.

After 2y DE S#&$ting on my face and it hurts. 

[SpentCasings]

I like how everyone here assumes people who hate this patch automatically ran 9 hour survivals and used maiming strike.

 

My atterax doesnt even have a potato. i HATE whips. Ive sold every copy of maiming strike ive ever gotten. I hate this update with a firery passion and for the first time in 2 years...I dont even want to play. Warframe legitimately disgusts me right now. 

 

I mean the Goddam Requium relics are bugged i cant even reliably farm them for the ONE part of the new content i was looking forward to. but hey, I got a new Kavat! 😄

[Test-995]

10 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

MR27 here, 6000 Hours, I care, I hate them, and I still have things to do.

Nice, that means the game has lot of content and still great after 6k hours.

I'm 1000hr newbie but i don't like the update too.

[Sylonus]

The game does have a lot of content, the nerfing though is starting to make some of that content unfun... I'm strongly considering taking a break until Railjack at this point.

[Hexsing]

I'll be honest.  Everything evolvles. So im going to talk about CC.  

DE made nuke frames the new CC.  Things like CO and Memeing strike caused many an issue.

Currently you need only a few frames to wipe a board.  It's boring. It's dull. And it is a power fantasy that is just exactly boring.  Its boring for new players or those who enjoy anything other than an Nuke.  

This isn't about VETS.  vets come up with new meta.  When change happens we rely on the vets to create new meta.

I'm not seeing that here. Its not about weeding out vets.  I watch all the youtibe and read the wiki.  I want vets.  To give me advice.  Not somone who can red crit because they have mods.  

[Test-995]

21 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

The game does have a lot of content, the nerfing though is starting to make some of that content unfun... I'm strongly considering taking a break until Railjack at this point.

Do it, player count is the biggest feedback!

[SneakyErvin]

The changes were needed, it also shifted build diversity into something better and gave things like CO a more conditional (no pun intended) use. 

CO used to be a no brain choice. It was a massive increase in damage even if you had a weapon with only decent status chance, because the gain per status was massive for all damage. Now it will be more of a status weapon mod, or for hybrids with a good chunk of status chance and worthwhile DoT statuses to buff. On a weapon with less reliable status chance and effect, it will just be another base damage mod that can easily be replaced by something else. Same deal kinda goes for BR. It is no longer that mandatory mod, low crit weapons wont make that good use out of it anymore, not as they did before.

And with these specific changes we also saw massive buffs to several weapons to make the playing field even more leveled and fun.

We just need to find slightly new ways to build and adapt to the changes. Hopefully it will help DE create better content and maybe finaly fix the poor scaling of enemies.

 

 

[InFlames]

Obviously no patch is 100%perfect and it will be hotfixed and patched further as needed, crying endlessly about "boohoo my zaw dun do red crituuu " and other related things only slow the process..
More diversity is always good as above post said.
Theres diversity in places where you can get kuva as well, you can do survival, you can do siphons, you can grind from arbi and you can grind nightwave.
I see a lot of lazyness and blind eyes to what is and was already there before the patch hit in terms of variety of content available to get resources.
Now people gonna bombard with "booohooo u cant get requiem relic anywhere else"
yea, it'll be fixed, its more then obvious since its a new thing. patience is a virtue my friends.

[Morthal]

3 hours ago, 98Octane said:

thank god the spinners will be less now , used to hate the stupid macro spinners 

You haven't seen Crushing Ruin yet have you? Spin2Win is better than ever and you don't even need a macro now.

[Goodwill]

Not weeding out the vets. All vets have their own reason for staying? Me? This type of risk taking is precisely why I've stuck with Warframe for so long. DE is not (too) afraid to try something new and shake things up.

And I'm sure we've all heard about Fashionframe which for the vets staying because of that, this update is a great benefit because now you can have have "fashionable" weapons that are still reasonably effective in most relevant content.

And some vets just don't care or are indifferent. It all depends on who your asking really.

[Morthal]

15 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

DE is not (too) afraid to try something new and shake things up.

Not afraid of making the same mistakes, over and over you mean? If you've been here long and invested then you truly know the track record. In the first 3-4 years some really great improvements, finally a direction for the game, then recent years the "shake things up" has backfired and divided the community even further. It's easy to appease the fashion frame community and the side effect is free publicity for Warframe, they don't even have to do much work themselves because of Tennogen. 
The motives are clear as ever, diverse community of veterans or not, it's obvious with this latest update that 'some' veterans who're more interested in helping the game to get back on track are being pushed out. With motive established, there's no denying the tremendous amount of work involved in altering melee and while the animations may be fantastic, the mods normalized and some remain unfinished (parry), all the pretty details don't cover up the fact.

[Goodwill]

38 minutes ago, Morthal said:

The motives are clear as ever, diverse community of veterans or not, it's obvious with this latest update that 'some' veterans who're more interested in helping the game to get back on track are being pushed out. 

Yes, those who do like the update and believe that it's the kick Warframe needs in helping the game get back on track are being pushed out. You could just browse through General and Feedback for the past few days to see that.

I pick that particular statement because out of your whole reply, that's the only part I disagree with. The rest I don't quite disagree with. I think Warframe and DE do have a lot of problems. But what I think are problematic is opposing to what you believe is problematic. Although I believe we can agree on some things.

I agree that melee is not... "perfect" at the moment. I am not fond of the inputs for keyboard. Shift and right-clicking seem really redundant and heavy melee attacks are still favoring tanky frames and doesn't provide much for squishy frames. I do believe there can be much better flow not to mention that some stances got absolutely shafted. They also group the new lifting mechanic with juggling but really it's just a melee CC. I'm surprised I haven't seen any complaints about Rhino's stomp being outdone by toothpicks.

But what I do appreciate with the new melee update is raising the floor while lowering the ceiling. Is it a backstep? Most certainly. But when you lose your way, it pays to retrace your steps. 
This update need A LOT of fixing and improvements and I will agree with anyone with similar sentiments. However what I will not agree with is scrapping or rolling back the update.

[SenorClipClop]

7 hours ago, pauli133 said:

Major update hits, and it's the same advice every time:

Take a step back, reevaluate what you're doing, reevaluate why you're doing it that way, and adjust. Your habits that were optimized for previous gameplay may no longer be applicable, and that's not inherently a problem.

This is Warframe. If your tools of choice don't do the job, go back to the giant toolbox you're flying around in and pick other tools.

Damn, I wish I could upvote this more than once. Perfect.

[George_PPS]

Some players talk about “DE doesn’t want players to do XYZ”. “DE wants players to do this or that.” Is this the new paradigm of Warframe? Games don’t work this way. If a developer starts to dictate what players should or shouldn’t like, the game will die very soon. Are these accounts making comments paid by other developers to try to destroy the best parts of warframe and replace them with mediocrity to drive the entire game to the ground in the long term? You have mostly succeeded. 

[SenorClipClop]

5 hours ago, jojokaizer said:

everything called out are just poor band aids on the broken system they added in. either way, we'll see how it turns out in the next phase. this phase is horrible.

It's funny that you use the phrase "bandaids on a broken system", for two reasons. First is that I use this phrase to describe what the meta used to be with Blood Rush and Condition Overload. The system is broken with its exponential enemy scaling, so we reduced every melee to more-or-less the same build to make it run up into crazy high levels of broken enemies. Scaling is broken and these Mods have been bandaids. And they gave us big red numbers that were satisfying to look at, so many players treated the bandaid as a panacea.

The second reason I find this funny is because DE used similar wording to describe the rework of mods like CO, BR and others: they are "ripping off the bandaid". They are aware of the mods' uses in the game and aware of how negatively many players will react to their changes, but they want to open up the meta to more than one build and make melee more interesting. Part of that involves ripping off the bandaid Mods, revealing the wounds in the game and taking further steps to close them and make this game healthier. So, we wanna slap those bandaids back on, or what?

Edited November 3, 2019 by SenorClipClop

[Shinigami_Greed]

I'd consider myself a vet at this point.  I joined in Warframe with my founder friend after he got me to try it during the original introduction of Survival mode, and I still have the original Strun Wraith that came from that event.  And I love all these changes, especially to the melee.  It's why it's so hard for me to understand the intense outrage. There's no such thing as a true endgame in warframe, and Warframe can't have an endgame like other games do.

We don't get legendary/epic pieces of armor, or trinkets, we don't have this infinity plus one sword or battle axe or lava hammer or what have you waiting for us at a hypothetical end of the road.  There is no end to the road for Warframe, and I kind of love that.

[Morthal]

46 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

This update need A LOT of fixing and improvements and I will agree with anyone with similar sentiments.

Wouldn't it be wonderful, to get an update that didn't need 5 or more hotfixes after release?