Everything about the Kuva Lich system is awful

[KnossosTNC]

At this point (I haven't really got enough information to make a comprehensive opinion yet), I see the system as needing four things:

1. Rework of Kuva Siphon/Flood missions. I see that DE are trying to revitalise old, rarely played content - but they are rarely played for a reason. However, I see this as an opportunity to take a second look at why they are rarely played and fix them. There should be more suggestions on that.
2. Less Grind. As usual, a new system and rewards come out, and DE err too much on the side of grindy. Less Murmurs should be required. I get that in making the Requiem Mod charges limited, they're trying to keep players coming back to Requiem Fissures so there would always be radshares available. Short of reworking the entirety of this part, I think you could make the process a bit more relaxed; let the Requiem Fissures drop a special resource to recharge the mods while players play them for other rewards instead.
3. More interactions with the Kuva Lich. Interaction was the appeal of the original system this was inspired by, and I believe interaction is the key to fixing some of the issues of the current system. For example, there are legitimate complaints about the loot stealing mechanic, which was intended to be a stake-raising interaction to make players want to take on the Lich. The obvious fix would be to add an exclusion list, but I think a better solution is a special "Lich Cache Heist" mission to recover your items without killing the Lich, which in turn draws a response from the Lich. Another issue that could be fixed with more varied interactions is the process of taking on the Lich itself.
4. Better rewards. So far, the rewards consist of Kuva Weapons and Ephemeras, which I don't think is worth the amount of effort put in. Kuva Weapons need a buff, and other rewards should also be offered.

Anyway, that's my current thoughts on the matter. Again, I don't really have the information to make a more comprehensive opinion, but that's where I stand.

Edited November 3, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[844448]

1 hour ago, Kim-Pine said:

I also got a huge issue with this "kuva lich system" , let me explain:

To kill a kuva lich you need requiem mods that you get from special relics, my problem is : my kuva lich perma camp the missions where you get those relics and STOLE it every damn time !!!

So to end this crap i am forced to get my requiem from trade and spend my precious plat to get rid of this jackass's lich, this retarded system shows how little thoughts was put into this...

Minblowing...

You know, you can clear all nodes under the lich influence first before proceeding with the missions instead of complaining they're taking your loot

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, 844448 said:

But hey, sustainable content! Right? Or can you give an example of sustainable content that doesn't involve layers of grind?

If theres an upside to the several layers of rng in this system its gotta be that the buzzword "sustainable content" will probably die. Good.

[zuraja]

There's one good think about this system.  It's easy to completely opt out of it and never have to deal with this trainwreck of a feature.

[AR3E]

So who get how to trade Lich contracts? My 4'th bringed me second Ogris -_(\

Also I dont get why Khora here giving toxin, my friend got corrosive on Seer.

[KnossosTNC]

2 minutes ago, AR3E said:

Also I dont get why Khora here giving toxin, my friend got corrosive on Seer.

Well, Khora is the Spider-frame.

Also, sweet, Ivara and Saryn are two of my favourite frames, Toxin is always handy.

[Ahijuna]

I wont say the lich system is good or bad. I don't like it at all. We are again forced to play this "content". If we accidentally kill the grineer guy and a lich is born we end up with an npc that can be killed only based on rng stuff (not player skills) and who steals property from our inventories wich DE would be wise to consider our private property. I know the license agreement states otherwise but again no agreement is above existing law.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Larizu

[zruncho]

5 hours ago, 844448 said:

But hey, sustainable content! Right? Or can you give an example of sustainable content that doesn't involve layers of grind?

Something you know.....fun and engaging. The thing that games are supposed to be.

Here's some examples for ya: 

Pray Mooncrash - that's how you do random generation;

Dark Souls 1-3 - still playing them, still fun;

Path of exile - progression through the grind is much faster and rewarding than Warframe due to the seasonal model. 

Minecraft; 

Every PvP game ever.

But in a sense you are right. People keep screeching "muh power fantasy". Well, when the game is completely braindead and has 0 challenge the only way they can keep people playing is by mind-numbing grinds. 

 

[844448]

4 minutes ago, zruncho said:

Pray Mooncrash - that's how you do random generation

So every visit has randomised things? Not too different to our normal mission gameplay

5 minutes ago, zruncho said:

Dark Souls 1-3 - still playing them, still fun;

Is it fun because of the difficulty? You can play Grendel missions then, or lich because it's not just some unique modelled grineer, someone even said it's dark souls difficulty

6 minutes ago, zruncho said:

Path of exile - progression through the grind is much faster and rewarding than Warframe due to the seasonal model. 

So grind over and over again from scratch on every season? What's the difference with the lich? Take your lich as "season" and I'm sure I'm not going to like path of exile model of progression because of that,m but if you like grinding for that acceltra on each season, you do you

8 minutes ago, zruncho said:

But in a sense you are right. People keep screeching "muh power fantasy". Well, when the game is completely braindead and has 0 challenge the only way they can keep people playing is by mind-numbing grinds.

Now they've addressed the completely braindead and 0 challenge by putting blood rush, condition overload and maiming strike in line. Also, isn't mind numbing grind basically exist in games you mentioned?

[People_have_3_Urgent]

I felt the system very tiring, it took me for a long time to decrypt the proper runes, and guess the order. Things about like immunity, weakness, weapons and the percent of the base damage are very random, we are not able to determine, if there's a weapon we don't want or not satisfied with the percentage of base damage, we cannot even change another lich or give up, only choice is assassination.

[Teridax68]

Requiem mods were a horrible idea that should never have been added to the game. It's just additional, pointless grinding, and overall the Parazon as this new weapon/system baffles me by how pointless and tacked-on it feels, to say nothing of how it's currently making hacking feel janky. I am surprised this much developer work was put into something that seems to contribute so little to the game, and this I think is one of the cases where we should take a step back, and remove a few features from the game. Kuva Liches have the potential to feel great, but fighting them should be about creating a story between Tenno and Lich, not trudging through layer upon layer of perfunctory RNG.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

We don't have it on consoles but, the first few things that come to mind are the requiem mods need to stay put in the player's inventory..the three charges are fine and should be refilled by kuva or say killing bosses like Vor or Phorid over and over....Kuva Siphons are totally overhauled and moved to actual locations that do not induce over the top frustration after doing it for the eightieth time leading to the want or need to un-install....

But right out of the gate my mind is telling me avoid this update regardless with the Robot screaming DANGER WILL ROBINSON !!! DANGER!!!

Edited November 3, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[XzWasPzX]

Specially the rewards. Just a kuva weapon? Gotta be kidding...

[Reynard_Fox]

The amount of thralls it takes to reveal a requiem borders on hostile, it's easily the least fun, most insufferable grind DE has ever added to the game. It might not seem so bad at first when you're having fun getting some different weapons, but then the penny drops the moment you get a repeat weapon lich and realise that if you ever want a shot at any one of the other weapons you have to go through the torturous, uncancelable process of killing it.

I only just got my third lich and it has the same weapon that I only just earned, In an instant any and all enthusiasm I had for this system evaporated.

There are 13 new weapons for crying out loud and it just hit me how insane this farm is going to be due to grind and repeats.

DE this is not a good system, I actively feel punished right now. If it isn't changed I might actually give up on it entirely.

EDIT: Oh, oh WOW DE, not only is this RNG ad infinitum with no respect for a players time, you actually want 5 forma for EACH of the 13 new weapons to get the mastery out of them? It was obnoxious for the Paracesis, but for all this new stuff to require 65 FORMA?

Starting to wonder if I should even keep playing at all if this is the direction the game is going.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Reynard_Fox
New information.

[IIDMOII]

On 2019-11-02 at 8:49 PM, 844448 said:

But hey, sustainable content! Right? Or can you give an example of sustainable content that doesn't involve layers of grind?

Grinding is one thing.

But missions we already had on tilesets we already had to get newer relics than we already had so we can get a slightly modified version of weapons we already had and repackaging it as "new content" is pushing the limits of my tolerance and patience.

Being asked to do it all again is pretty lazy. Come up with something new instead of recycling stuff we were already tired of.

[844448]

3 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Grinding is one thing.

But missions we already had on tilesets we already had to get newer relics than we already had so we can get a slightly modified version of weapons we already had and repackaging it as "new content" is pushing the limits of my tolerance and patience.

Being asked to do it all again is pretty lazy. Come up with something new instead of recycling stuff we were already tired of.

If the community itself can't give some ideas and just keep yapping, how can DE know? No, "it's their job" is not an excuse. You don't go to a restaurant and just say they should give you a food you want and it's their job to come up with something that fits your demand, do you?

And what is "something new"? Most new things are recycled stuffs with different twist nowadays.

[Acos]

I've spent most of the day farming requiems, farming void traces to power them up, running the SINGULAR mission that is up for an hour to try to crack open the requiem, and routinely not getting the only parazon mod I need to kill my stupid lich, mostly because I want him to GO AWAY at this point. 

The focus of this system should have been on generating unique bosses and dropping a plethora of unique weapons or adding new allies. Instead the system seems designed around adding a mechanic that actively steals your loot unless you dedicate several hours (days? I might just be unlucky) towards grinding for the perfect formula to kill your own personalized nuisance. The worst part is that even if you DO manage to kill your lich, the game just throws a new one at you almost immediately. 

It would be okay enough if I could ignore this, but I can't. Kuva Lich is a really bad addition. 

[AandOE]

This is why I asked for a Kuva Lich weapon plat pack. Give the pack some really horrible, low 'buffs' that wouldn't otherwise spawn from regular Lich hunts, so that there's still the incentive to go after them. (due to the upgrade mechanic)

[844448]

6 minutes ago, Acos said:

It would be okay enough if I could ignore this, but I can't. Kuva Lich is a really bad addition. 

Now it's a fully opt-in feature where you need to kill them with parazon in 15 seconds you deplete the larvling health or you don't get any lich

[Acos]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Now it's a fully opt-in feature where you need to kill them with parazon in 15 seconds you deplete the larvling health or you don't get any lich

Oh did they change it? Thank christ. If I ever kill my current immortal stalker I probably won't ever activate another one. 

[Aseraan]

On 2019-11-03 at 3:49 AM, 844448 said:

But hey, sustainable content! Right? Or can you give an example of sustainable content that doesn't involve layers of grind?

I would hapilly  hunt the kuva wepoans cuz i find them interesting whit the bonus element and shet but the timegate and rng is just killing it for me.

It would be pretty sustainable  whithout THIS much grind considering there is riven involved too and bunch of new weapons and even than u can get those wepaons better by swaping its stats for a better one IT is sustainable  sadly the Exesive MURMRUMRURRURMRURMRUR farming and  rng consumables kills it mind my rudeness.

[cmacq]

I think it has the basis of a good system. It needs a lot of work. People wanted something new to do so they gave it to us. Too soon unfortunately. However the community reveals the problems much faster than they can in-house so they take a chance and release it. With the feedback they get they will make more changes. They've already given us an opt out as they said they would.

We really really need somewhere besides the kuva fortress to crack relics as well. Repeating that map becomes downright depressing....

[Mia-Sbunny]

I personally find the system a bit dumb.

 

I mean, the whole Lich idea? i love that. But the murmers and such, yea its a bit too long of a grind if you ask me.

But, the part that really makes no sense to me at all, is when you finally know the words you need to use. You have to gamble for the correct order. I mean.. Sure, its just a game for us, but, there's lore and such and all that so there is some depth to the game, story and character wise. So what kind of ninja assassin are we, if we go to an enemy and go "ok, 1 out of 3 chances this might work, let's gamble our life on those odds because it's insta-fail/death if we get it wrong."

It's like trying to assassinate someone by giving them something they are allergic against. And then just randomly giving them a type of food and fingers crossed they are allergic to exactly that without any research on the subject.

Like seriously, DE really needs to put something else in there, so you don't have to gamble for that dumb word-order system. 

Give us a way to figure out the word order or something at least so it's not just dumb mindless gambling because you couldn't be further away from a cool ninja assassin then closing your eyes and going "duuuuuuuh, this might work, maaaaaybe, duuuuh"

[Gasau]

The worst part kuva weapons not even that good. Okay, to be honest most of them is rubbish.

The only and actually nice reward is ephemera. But amount of time you need to kill lich is bullS#&$.

[Jeger_Wulfe]

So far, I'm enjoying it a lot.

The grind is, frankly, very light. It's not that hard at all to take a lich down. My lich had a great personality, and I was almost sad to kill him. My second lich isn't as fun.

Not sure what the fuss is about tbh.