Rising Tide: Hotfix 26.1.3

[savoteemu]

That Last line is hard. I once went whit out food on work for plat for something stupid to Support de. Things change. We change and digital extreme changes.

[Danielus33]

I suppose there is still no changes to those grinding requiem murmurs? The grind time is really time consuming whether it be new or converted liches 

[KelkSwiftlan]

DE got to take a look at their RNG on rewards. I did weeks and weeks and weeks of Cetus bounties trying to get the left gauntlet when the rotation came round but it never dropped. NEVER. Ended up trading with an alliance member to save my own sanity.

With the unvaulting of Ash and Vauban Prime and their weapons, limiting the drop locations to either bounties or void is a little annoying but I don't mind it. It became a thorn in my side, a huge sore thumb, a major peeve when the RNG seemed to utterly troll the heck out of me. Doing bounties takes time, even when you try to be as fast and efficient as possible. It's frustrating when you get a relic drop but it's not the relic you want. SEVERAL TIMES IN A ROW.

Farming their relics in the Void is faster since there's only one objective. Capture target, kill x amount of enemies, sabotage stuff, etc. It becomes a major drag when you're trying to get a specific relic, for the past hour or so, only to end up with 1. Just. ONE. Maybe 2 if you're lucky repeating the same node over and over again. The RNG needs to be looked at.

I understand Warframe is kind of a grindy game, I get it. I enjoy it cause I get to just chill and zone out. It becomes UNENJOYABLE when the rewards or the thing you're looking for REFUSES TO DROP.

10+ Lith S8 relics as opposed to 1 lith v7 relic is not enojoyable.

And relics is a double RNG system. You gotta do missions repeatedly and hopefully it drops the relic you are looking for, that's one. Then you gotta have enough traces to refine said relic to improve your odds of getting the piece you want. And then you use the relics and at the end of the mission, you hope and pray that your relic gives the part you're looking for. Otherwise, you hope that the other players got lucky and rolled the part you're looking for. That's frankly gambling.

[Scarletshy]

I think it would be real cool if the landing craft, orbiter, and possibly railjack can have dual energy like the warframes, weapons, and attachments. I know it’s kinda out there and I know we can’t put forma on those but I would still love to see that in a future update

[KelkSwiftlan]

I don't know if it's just me or others have similar experience. Sometimes, when playing with groups in missions, when I joined an ongoing mission, there are rare moments when I'm trying to catch up with the group only to have the doors, remain closed  on me. The doors aren't locked, the room isn't in a lockdown, the door lights are green, but the doors just wont open for me. Even using the unstuck command does nothing. My only hope is some mob was walking towards said door and ONLY then will the door opens. It's been happening since I've been playing this game.

I notice that since this update, sometimes Wukong's Iron Staff will be on his hand, but I've never summoned it.It usually happens when I'm using Cloudwalker.

[Silescere]

20 hours ago, Leqesai said:

 

You sound so bitter. Why bother continuing to play if you're so frustrated?

It might be for the same reason I continue to play certain games despite them changing for the worse: I currently have nothing else / less toxic / more fun / a compareable alternative with that kind of design or theme or setting. So you "bear" with all the unwanted changes and downgrades until the negative aspects outweigh the positive moments.

[Duduminador]

The people who complain on lack of challenge and bad scalling are the same that complain over when a game breaking Warframe/Itzal/whatever gets nerfed... wat...?

Fine, I agree that difficulty must allways remain at a minimum. I want it to be hard, because that also makes it rewarding when it works. But personally, when I see the same people bringing up how they rather use catchmoon on Orb mother fight because it was "efficient" (gimme a f break)... I just disregard the entirety of the argument as having any relevance whatsoever.

On a last note. It's not reasonable to have a gimmick to skip the entirety of a world map. It kills the point of having the world map in the first place. It's not the lack of 'things to do' in the map, because for a time DE ALREADY TRIED THAT. Then players complained that they were being joined by people with different objectives both of tileset maps and on worldmaps, and this is why we ended up having nodes with multiple missions and worldmaps with a bounty set up just to hunt Eidolons. "More things to do" is also the main reason why people keep getting told to play solo if they don't want to rush extraction.

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, Silescere said:

It might be for the same reason I continue to play certain games despite them changing for the worse: I currently have nothing else / less toxic / more fun / a compareable alternative with that kind of design or theme or setting. So you "bear" with all the unwanted changes and downgrades until the negative aspects outweigh the positive moments.

I can respect that. I wish you the best though and hope the good soon outweighs the bad for you.

[.LeiA._]

No hotfixes for a few days makes me uncomfortable. Help!

[Andvarja]

I'd really like to be able to do Eidolons again, but controller conflicts aren't resolved yet.

2 Fridays back, we were told fixes for controllers were coming last Monday.  It's now Tuesday of the following week.  I get that delays happen when a bug is hard to track down, but we've had no word on this.  I still just don't understand why Universal Blink wasn't given the Spoiler Mode treatment and simply made a 5th ability, which would have prevented that issue (though perhaps not the afterburners one) as well as made the binding for M+K more comfortable as well.

[xXPeGaSuSXx]

ty

 

[master_of_destiny]

23 hours ago, KelkSwiftlan said:

DE got to take a look at their RNG on rewards. I did weeks and weeks and weeks of Cetus bounties trying to get the left gauntlet when the rotation came round but it never dropped. NEVER. Ended up trading with an alliance member to save my own sanity.

With the unvaulting of Ash and Vauban Prime and their weapons, limiting the drop locations to either bounties or void is a little annoying but I don't mind it. It became a thorn in my side, a huge sore thumb, a major peeve when the RNG seemed to utterly troll the heck out of me. Doing bounties takes time, even when you try to be as fast and efficient as possible. It's frustrating when you get a relic drop but it's not the relic you want. SEVERAL TIMES IN A ROW.

Farming their relics in the Void is faster since there's only one objective. Capture target, kill x amount of enemies, sabotage stuff, etc. It becomes a major drag when you're trying to get a specific relic, for the past hour or so, only to end up with 1. Just. ONE. Maybe 2 if you're lucky repeating the same node over and over again. The RNG needs to be looked at.

I understand Warframe is kind of a grindy game, I get it. I enjoy it cause I get to just chill and zone out. It becomes UNENJOYABLE when the rewards or the thing you're looking for REFUSES TO DROP.

10+ Lith S8 relics as opposed to 1 lith v7 relic is not enojoyable.

And relics is a double RNG system. You gotta do missions repeatedly and hopefully it drops the relic you are looking for, that's one. Then you gotta have enough traces to refine said relic to improve your odds of getting the piece you want. And then you use the relics and at the end of the mission, you hope and pray that your relic gives the part you're looking for. Otherwise, you hope that the other players got lucky and rolled the part you're looking for. That's frankly gambling.

The math here is often the most interesting bit to enjoy.

 

Let's start off with the assumptions there are 20 relics at any one time.  The drop rate for the item you want is then calculated as such:

chance of a relic dropping = PD

chance of relic being the one you want = PW = 5% chance the relic you want drops

The requirements for void traces are random drops, I'm going to just state that they seem to range from 5-25 trace per cracked relic without any boosters, so you need between 4 and 20 grind relics

chance to get reward from relic = PR = 10%

 

So chance that any reward you get is actually going to give you the one item you want, assuming a 20% drop rate for relics, is 0.2*0.05*0.10 = 0.001 = 1 in 1000 rewards.  That's why the grind is as long as it is (and why you never seem to get the right reward).

 

 

More interesting is when you consider what DE did for relics a while back.  They ran an event where you could earn 10 relics bearing parts for a prime frame (Saryn if memory serves).  The inductive logic is a 10% chance for the rare drop and 10 chances mean I get at least one, right?  Nope.  That isn't how chances work.  If you have 100 people who have the relic fully radiant the chance of getting the drop is 1-0.9^10.  For those without a calculator that's 65.1% of people getting the relic.  This means that unless you do a relic share, 34.9% of players didn't get the rare part to drop.  Imagine being the group of 35 people who did the event, did the trace grind, and didn't get the prime gear.  Seems pretty disheartening, and only really can be addressed by doing a 4 person share; where you get 4 people's odds of being in that 35 person pool down to 1.5%.  Yep, that means that even with a relic share of four people 1.5% (0.014781)  did not get the drop from their 10 relics and 3 other people's 10 relics.  This cannot be improved upon, and there's someone out there who got the 10% drop 10 times (1 person in 1*10^10 or one in a billion)

DE isn't stupid, or at least I'm unwilling to state such.  They know that this is the case, people are bad at math, and thus they've structured rewards in a way that inductive reasoning does not match with mathematical calculations.  Gambling 101, don't do it unless you understand your odds.  Doing the math for Warframe is...sometimes it's better than playing the game.

[xXPeGaSuSXx]

Hey, DE,

your Orokin Dekoration for your ship is Good but there are little problems if u change the metal from the Orokin stuff to gold

http://prntscr.com/q6ogy1

http://prntscr.com/q6oi0c

http://prntscr.com/q6oiaa

all of them are not in metal and doesnt glow, would u create an different colour tool just for them ?

An little Brainoffering, would u use for all heads, bodys, assesories on the frame the same colour base, because the colour on prime like withe looks on tenno gen grey. So it's not possible to use them together for an great finsih. :S

Thanks for your readingtime

edit:

The Ship inside is great http://prntscr.com/q6okbe

[Dippy_Daredevil]

Not sure if everyone agrees with me but would like to suggest if we could make the warframe invulnerable when they capture targets or when mercy on murmurs like how Inaros is when he consumes as we get killed easily not because of us not avoiding enemies, but because of the long animation. Else, can we reduce the animation time? Thanks

[Neuroszima]

9 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

*enormous snip*

  Doing the math for Warframe is...sometimes it's better than playing the game.

Well, it isn't complicated either, many things in this game can be boiled down to a simple Bernoulli distribution logic, which people doesn't even care to know about because "that's math". "That math" could tell them how low is a chance to obtain a certain item, or predict how many times it will take (more or less, it is statistics after all). I can't stress this enough, as it even applies to the things like numer of status effects applied each shot from a gun with multishot, which people can't seem to understand.

Also a 1.5% "no-rare reward" players in regard to radding and running full squad isn't that bad number, i expected way more, but i didn't do your calculations. Also take note some people can receive more than 1 reward across this, and there are good souls that are willing to give poor players a rare part from time to time, like for example veterans to players that just started playing and are in the same clan.

[DarkOvion]

Hawk Eye is still not an Exilus mod.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, Neuroszima said:

Well, it isn't complicated either, many things in this game can be boiled down to a simple Bernoulli distribution logic, which people doesn't even care to know about because "that's math". "That math" could tell them how low is a chance to obtain a certain item, or predict how many times it will take (more or less, it is statistics after all). I can't stress this enough, as it even applies to the things like numer of status effects applied each shot from a gun with multishot, which people can't seem to understand.

Also a 1.5% "no-rare reward" players in regard to radding and running full squad isn't that bad number, i expected way more, but i didn't do your calculations. Also take note some people can receive more than 1 reward across this, and there are good souls that are willing to give poor players a rare part from time to time, like for example veterans to players that just started playing and are in the same clan.

90% chance not to get the rare item.  1-0.90^10 = 1-0.348678 = 0.651322.  65% get the relic and 35 don't.

You've got a group of 4 people.  To fail entirely you need all four in the 35%.  0.348678^4 = 0.014781 = 1.5%.  

If you don't make the relics radiant it goes from 10% to 2%, which is an 18% chance of getting the reward.  4 people doing so is a 45% (0.4457) chance to not get the reward.  Yep, that means if you don't make the relic radiant it isn't an extra 5 times the amount of runs required, it's so much more that it isn't funny.

 

Regarding the distribution curves, that's fair.  Basic statistics offers that, you could do a histogram to represent how many people get the rewards, or show it in a number of other ways visually so people don't have to do the maths.  I hope that sounded as depressed as I feel when saying it.

 

Regarding kindness, don't tell me anything.  On more than one occasion I've hooked people up with 60-60 mods and parts, because the only way we keep a player base is to make the initial grind less painful and help new players.  DE doesn't, and their promise of a new start to the game has been long standing and without tangible delivery.  My clan doesn't exist, and I'm rapidly approaching saturation for DE pulling garbage moves to try and spur spending and grind inside of a game already composed of many layered grinds.  

This may sound funny, but I think the biggest problems of the game are crystallized on Earth, and it's the very first planet in the game.  Tell me, what is numerically the best mod in the game?  You probably won't guess it, so I'll tell you.  The best mod in the game is Bite.  You'd be forgiven for calling me crazy, but 330% CC and 220% CD literally turn an organic pet from meh to a screaming death machine capable of rending enemies into ribbons.  Now, the mod drops from 3 enemy types at 0.01% or one in ten thousand If you see 10 enemies of the drahk type per mission, that's a 1-(0.9999)^10 or functionally 99.90% chance that you won't get Bite to drop.  I've been playing for years, have had the mod drop a grand total of twice, and it's been around since before update 14.0.7.  This level of grind for anything remotely interesting, on a companion type critically underused unless it's for Kavat buffs, is what makes people feel the game is broken fundamentally.  Instead of fixing it, we get things that are worse.  You can bang out a run of earth exterminate in about 3 minutes, evening out to about 3.33 Kubrow a minute.  That'll be about 67 Kubrow in 20 minutes, or a 0.0667% chance of getting the reward. 

Let's introduce a different reward that takes high level gear, requires much longer to run a level, and requires you to find 3 caches.  Thank you for the Xiphos.  0.5% drop of three parts from caches.  Yep, screw that.

 

I guess I'll reiterate what I've said before.  DE knows this is a scam, and they believe we buy into it because the game is "free to play."  I refuse to give them money, because free to play is becoming worse and worse, because the blatant gambling mechanics are being driven out of the industry.  Read: companies like EA loose loot boxes, then claim it's a matter of player choice because they "fix" the system so that the grind is astronomical.  This is why sometimes it's good to do the math, decide whether I can live without something, then do whatever makes the most sense for a fun experience.  This is why I hate and love Warframe.  If it was better I'd want to spend money, because they do stupid things, I don't buy the stuff, so they make more grind.  If DE could break that loop I'd love to support them, but right now they're asking for the price of a full AAA game every three months for prime access...and I cannot justify the added content in a year amounting to that.  Too much is layered grind, and it isn't worth giving them money.  This disappoints me immensely.  Hopefully DE reads these words and understands, but after five years they've not indicated that these sentiments get more than a passing regard.

[SugarrSniper]

Can we have dojo decorations stick to the outside of our railjacks? i really want horns on my ship lol.

[KitsuneEliud]

Fix on controller to blink and roll sideways for archwing

[master_of_destiny]

I'm really hoping that DE gets a chance to read this.  I've found a video that basically is everything I've said, and is infinitely better because it dubs a meme to to highlight the absurdity of it all.  This probably isn't work safe, will require you read the English dub of two Spanish speakers (no, not a translation), and is absolutely hilarious from where I sit due to it being true. 

 

Not intended for children due to language, and not Astley

 

It's good to know that players of the game feel the same.  It's also depressing to think that this comes off the back of a Railjack demonstration where the things you used are consumables which have to be crafted, the promise that single player Railjack is being fulfilled but "not recommended" at launch, and the Lich system is still a crappy grind system that is being defended by the content partners for....reasons.  Let's not forget Focus 3.0 only for railjack, crew levels, and the demonstration of the mode was having the developers get their crap pushed in due to balance issues and the bizarro need to craft munitions while in the midst of combat. 

Yep, I'm looking forward to being partnered with the same random people who can't get a spy mission done without setting off alarms, people who run around a space ship with a flamethrower and break all of the glass but can't hack to unlock the doors thereafter, and people who make the Plains impossible to get that extra reward on because not killing anyone in a horde shooter was a fantastic idea that the developers really thought through.

 

As a side note, this is a game sold as a horde shooter, looter, and as space ninjas.  What the last two years have been is Dungeon Keeper mobile and Ubisoft open world amalgamated into something I increasingly find impossible to justify because everything is driven by a new resource grind instead of being fun enough to get me to want to spend money.  The more I see of Railjack the more I feel like this is building not towards a unified experience, but towards a gigantic resource sink that will make the miserable Lich grind comparatively look like a walk in the park.

Hey DE, did you not learn anything from Raids and Lunaro?  I'd have thought the easiest things were that diversions from core mechanics are only viable until the rewards disappear, and that management of rare resources through drops that convert from common to rare types at stupidly high rates is not a reward.  For those who don't remember, the last major attempt to remove resources from the system was the rare resource blue prints.  You can now spend 100 platinum (for the BP once), 15,000 credits, 1 hours, and many missions worth of other resources to craft a single rare resource unit (that is a 1 or 2 mission run to get to drop at most).  https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rare_Resource_Blueprint.  Now we get the same resource grind, but may have to kill mission progression mid task to go craft stuff to complete the mission.

 

 

Also, prediction made right now.  The announcement will be Railjacks taking flight, but not as "we think."  The surprise will be that the Railjack will be required to access the open world for the Duviri paradox, which instead of all of the goofy stuff we saw last year will be a refresher on Orokin lore via a temporal paradox.  Said temporal paradox will be driven by the man in the wall, who is in fact someone else from the Zariman.  He is under the influence of Void magic, and somehow will be related back to our operator in some non-trivial way to try and flip the script on what we think is a malicious entity.  The reframing will be that the Harrow incident was in fact a child misinterpreting discipline as abuse, and suddenly all of the whispering makes perfect sense.  This person will solidify themselves as helping the Tenno and guiding them, and the resolution to The New War will be to have the Sentients and Void stop fighting by having the man in the wall and lotus come together as our pseudo mother and father (if DE wants a more woke take the lotus kills the man in the wall and peace comes because the sentients become our brethren by way of the infested turning their non-organics more organic in a reverse of the process which created the frames themselves).  Each of these story beats is basically the hero's journey, with the ability to obfuscate the truth during each step so that everything revealed is easy to release in pieces and still contain a full story with a cliff hanging ending.

Please DE, make me wrong.  Give us something that cannot be called from a mile away.  

[TKOINCOGNITO]

@[DE]Megan 

  Thanks, What we'd also like along with or near to Railjack, is the ability to Move rooms around without having to destroy them in the Dojo.

Perhaps through a option with a UI map? Of course only highest tier Dojo/clan members would be allowed. I'd be fine with a plat cost for it as long at the first one is free.

[GateCrasherSupernova]

It's been more than a month since the Old Blood update was implemented and i'm taking this opportunity to post this here even if not the original thread.

A little background of myself. I'm not the most knowledgeable or experienced warframe player. I started November 2018, but i did manage to put 1000 hours into the game in that time period (a significant part was dedicated to fashion frame i'm sure), even if i can't play a lot during work days. I bought two platinum packs, once when i realized i loved the game and knew i would be dedicating time to it, and another recently for my second year of play to help support the game and you guys. I understand the business model.

I barely played Fortuna yet and only really played 11 frames so far. Even Eidolon i only started doing tridolons fairly recently. And i'm much more a shooter than a melee guy, and only when you did the change that improved the fluidity between the two combat modes did i began to take an interest in melee.

With that out of the way, here are my thoughts on the recent changes:

 

Kuva Liches

I don't have much to say here because i haven't done them. I might do them in the future when i eventually run out of better things to do in the game, but the main reason i'm not doing them is because it's tied almost exclusively to Kuva siphon missions which i dislike. I find them clunky and buggy, which is curious because it's essentially the same mission type and mechanic as disruption which i lrather enjoy. The other problem is the figuring out the order of the mods that seems silly and unnecessarily grindy.

It's a shame really because the guns look really promising (until some people start *@##$ing about them being too powerful and stuff i bet), but i also hear the liches themselves are completely useless in game?

 

Ember rework

Ember. I love the rework. And this from someone who already liked her before. I understand some people pissed because you took away her World on Fire ability and her lazy frame for low level content, but she's a powerhouse now and i love her even more. I hear complaints about her energy requirements being too high, but frankly i find it quite manageable. The ability 2 when maxed out gives a clear audio and visual queue so you don't forget it. The only times i found myself out of energy was in a long defection mission when the density of enemies was very high and the cost of Inferno tied to the number of enemies hit led me into being devoid of energy very fast at that point, but nothing that a energy pizza and void dash couldn't handle. The only other time i had a problem was when i had a speed Volt in the squad and the ability 2 became very hard to manage because the rise of the level of immolation became unreasonably fast to a point where i had to turn it off. I don't know if this was intentional or not and if it's been fixed.

The only real complain i have is the ability 3 sometimes doesn't strip the enemy armour if they are not in direct field of view when you activate the ability. I have seen multiple times enemy units being hit by the fire wave and not being affected just because they were not visible at the time i activated the ability or because they're ducked behind some obstacle, even if the wave clearly hits them.

 

Archwing changes

After a small adjustment period i like the changes, but it's a mixed bag.

I like it more in the open maps of Eidolon and Orb Valis. I like the increase in control it allows.

I like it less in the space maps. I can't put my finger on why. I probably miss the inertia there more. But i can live with it. I think it's a positive trade off.

I have no idea on how it affects Titania because i still haven't try her out yet, so i defer to those players complaining on the matter.

I do have a problem that needs fixing. You changed the pov angle that was centered behind the frame and is now skewed to the side similarly with what is done outside of archwing mode. The problem is that it blocks the vision of the reticle so you can't see where you aiming at. I experienced this in the Odonata prime when at full speed and i've seen screen caps showing the same issue with Titania. This should be a fairly easy fix though. Just adjust the angle slightly.

 

Orbiter changes

Deep dislike to it. It looks a lot worse now. Granted, this is somewhat subjective, but the old look had a more Orokin vibe to it than the new one. As a response to the complains you gave us the wear and tear slider. Commendable, but not enough. Not only it didn't completely remove the wear and tear, but we're still stuck with an inferior version of the orbiter look for many players. Why can't you give us the option of the old look? I mean, i have the choice to do festive themes in the orbiter. How difficult is it to give us the option of the classic look? Which is something i suspect it would also solve the biggest problem of this change - the lighting.

Right now, i can't do fashion frame because the light in the arsenal  is reduced to a moonlight level. Whites have become medium greys, and every other color is similarly affected. i posted screen caps in this thread. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the skylight of the new look, because the frame has the same appearance in the 'cockpit'.

This needs fixing.

 

Melee changes

I left it to last because there's so much i'd like to unpack here.

Like i said at the beginning, i'm fairly new to the game, and not the biggest melee player. However, i'm baffled with the reasons given for this big nerf to the combat mode. Yes, i know there are already new metas out there, but it still a huge nerf to what it was. Like i said, i've put over 1000 hours into the game in about a year. Do you know the number of times i saw players complaining in game about this weapon or that play style or that frame being too powerful and ruining the game experience for others?  Zero. Not once. The only times i witness some issues between players in a squad were either someone *@##$ing or asking a Limbo player to stop doing their thing, which is really irrelevant because you can just leave the bubble and do your own thing anyway.  The other times was in survival missions, mainly in arbitrations when some players want to camp someplace to make it collecting loot easier and others just want to wander the map. That is the situation that i've seen cause some real conflict and rudeness between players and i don't think there's a solution to it. It's just part of doing public missions.

Take for example the 'spin to win' gameplay with atterax and the reason why you nerfed maiming strike i guess. How was it ruining the game? I've rarely seen players using it outside of ESO or some Sortie missions. Personally, in the brief time i get to used it fully, i only used it in ESO also and long runs in disruption. And guess what, nobody complained. Like i never seen anyone complaining because someone is playing Saryn or Equinox or Mesa or Trinity. Hell, if i get a player in my squad who can help me get through a tough mission, i'm appreciative. Whenever i get a wisp player in my squad i could just kiss him/her, because wisps make everything better. I don't know where you getting this negative information or feedback from outside of a few people in forums perhaps, because i just don't see it in game. Brutally nerfing weapons and frames just because a few people don't like them is a slippery slope, because if you're consistent, then you need to get rid of riven mods, the new kuva weapons, a huge chunk of frames including the recently reworked Ember and dozens of weapons. It's like you're teasing little children with some wonderful toys to play only to take them away later and say they can't have them anymore. Why? I've seen arguments about its use in lower level content with lower level players. Well, at some point any frame and weapon with a decent build you bring at those level missions will clean house anyway, so what's the point? I've heard the same argument for the initial nerfing of Ember's World on Fire. It didn't make a difference anyway and you turned her even more powerful in her rework. I'm honestly confused. In any case, i remember as a new player when doing missions with other higher level missions, i was just in awe with their abilities. I didn't complain or *@##$ about it. I just wanted to improve my account and get to that level too. My only problem was they were doing the missions too damn fast for someone who didn't even know the maps. Hint for new players, try everything solo first when starting out. As for the argument of making the game too easy, i also don't get it. The game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. You want a challenge, there's ESO and long runs in endless missions and arbitrations. And if that's not enough, try them solo. 

Another issue i see developing because of these changes and nerfs is a hit on diversity of gameplay.

This is an example. I know warframe is not a stealth game, but when i'm playing Loki in solo spy missions i like to pretend it is. It's a palate cleanser for me. I know i can do the missions faster by just cruising to the objectives or just shoot everything in sight on my way there, but i used to have fun with the covert lethality mod in daggers and do one shot stealth kills. Now, in higher levels and for certain enemy units, i can't. The mod wasn't breaking the game, because i could just finish faster without using it. Nerfing the mod didn't changed anything except removing a little side fun i had with an alternative gameplay. Which i suspect applies to Ash. I haven't play him much yet, but i've heard that his raison d'être for being a unique and powerful offensive frame was this mod. Once again you remove a unique gameplay from the board.

Anyway, let's get to specifics (i'll keep it brief because this is already too long):

Melee combos -  I think it's an improvement. Its implementation is causing some issues, and the fixes seem to have caused others, but i still think it's something worth keeping and try to figure out how to correct any problems derived from it.

Heavy attacks - i hate it with a passion right now.  Not only it's not as good and satisfying as the previous melee system, but it's incredibly awkward to use and i don't. Now, i could live with the nerf that is the combo counter serving essentially to feed the heavy attack feature i don't use, but currently i can't even build a decent combo counter anyway. The heavy attack keeps activating whenever it pleases without me holding the attack button.  I can't reach a combo of 3x or 4x let alone 12x. Hilariously, i can't use melee on melee weapons such as gunblades, because they just shoot now. This is probably the most common complaint i've seen in the forum, it completely breaks the use of melee in higher level and i have yet to see some acknowledgement from you (if you did i apologize i missed it) about it. This is a serious issue and off all the problems that came from the recent updates, this should have top priority.

Combo counter - i can't say for sure now, because i can't keep a combo counter currently, but before the heavy attacks started screwing with it, i noticed that the counter would reset to zero way too fast even with duration mods like drifting contact or body count. I try putting them both on and the counter definitely reset way too fast. I'm not sure if this is something you guys fixed it already, but i figured it was worth mentioning.

Hopefully you'll read this in a constructive way. I've tried to point out the positives and not just the negatives. I have faith in you. You've earn that from me and many others. If i put up this wall of text is a sign of how much i care.

[Stickman949]

5 minutes ago, GateCrasherSupernova said:

It's been more than a month since the Old Blood update was implemented and i'm taking this opportunity to post this here even if not the original thread.

A little background of myself. I'm not the most knowledgeable or experienced warframe player. I started November 2018, but i did manage to put 1000 hours into the game in that time period (a significant part was dedicated to fashion frame i'm sure), even if i can't play a lot during work days. I bought two platinum packs, once when i realized i loved the game and knew i would be dedicating time to it, and another recently for my second year of play to help support the game and you guys. I understand the business model.

I barely played Fortuna yet and only really played 11 frames so far. Even Eidolon i only started doing tridolons fairly recently. And i'm much more a shooter than a melee guy, and only when you did the change that improved the fluidity between the two combat modes did i began to take an interest in melee.

With that out of the way, here are my thoughts on the recent changes:

 

Kuva Liches

I don't have much to say here because i haven't done them. I might do them in the future when i eventually run out of better things to do in the game, but the main reason i'm not doing them is because it's tied almost exclusively to Kuva siphon missions which i dislike. I find them clunky and buggy, which is curious because it's essentially the same mission type and mechanic as disruption which i lrather enjoy. The other problem is the figuring out the order of the mods that seems silly and unnecessarily grindy.

It's a shame really because the guns look really promising (until some people start *@##$ing about them being too powerful and stuff i bet), but i also hear the liches themselves are completely useless in game?

 

Ember rework

Ember. I love the rework. And this from someone who already liked her before. I understand some people pissed because you took away her World on Fire ability and her lazy frame for low level content, but she's a powerhouse now and i love her even more. I hear complaints about her energy requirements being too high, but frankly i find it quite manageable. The ability 2 when maxed out gives a clear audio and visual queue so you don't forget it. The only times i found myself out of energy was in a long defection mission when the density of enemies was very high and the cost of Inferno tied to the number of enemies hit led me into being devoid of energy very fast at that point, but nothing that a energy pizza and void dash couldn't handle. The only other time i had a problem was when i had a speed Volt in the squad and the ability 2 became very hard to manage because the rise of the level of immolation became unreasonably fast to a point where i had to turn it off. I don't know if this was intentional or not and if it's been fixed.

The only real complain i have is the ability 3 sometimes doesn't strip the enemy armour if they are not in direct field of view when you activate the ability. I have seen multiple times enemy units being hit by the fire wave and not being affected just because they were not visible at the time i activated the ability or because they're ducked behind some obstacle, even if the wave clearly hits them.

 

Archwing changes

After a small adjustment period i like the changes, but it's a mixed bag.

I like it more in the open maps of Eidolon and Orb Valis. I like the increase in control it allows.

I like it less in the space maps. I can't put my finger on why. I probably miss the inertia there more. But i can live with it. I think it's a positive trade off.

I have no idea on how it affects Titania because i still haven't try her out yet, so i defer to those players complaining on the matter.

I do have a problem that needs fixing. You changed the pov angle that was centered behind the frame and is now skewed to the side similarly with what is done outside of archwing mode. The problem is that it blocks the vision of the reticle so you can't see where you aiming at. I experienced this in the Odonata prime when at full speed and i've seen screen caps showing the same issue with Titania. This should be a fairly easy fix though. Just adjust the angle slightly.

 

Orbiter changes

Deep dislike to it. It looks a lot worse now. Granted, this is somewhat subjective, but the old look had a more Orokin vibe to it than the new one. As a response to the complains you gave us the wear and tear slider. Commendable, but not enough. Not only it didn't completely remove the wear and tear, but we're still stuck with an inferior version of the orbiter look for many players. Why can't you give us the option of the old look? I mean, i have the choice to do festive themes in the orbiter. How difficult is it to give us the option of the classic look? Which is something i suspect it would also solve the biggest problem of this change - the lighting.

Right now, i can't do fashion frame because the light in the arsenal  is reduced to a moonlight level. Whites have become medium greys, and every other color is similarly affected. i posted screen caps in this thread. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the skylight of the new look, because the frame has the same appearance in the 'cockpit'.

This needs fixing.

 

Melee changes

I left it to last because there's so much i'd like to unpack here.

Like i said at the beginning, i'm fairly new to the game, and not the biggest melee player. However, i'm baffled with the reasons given for this big nerf to the combat mode. Yes, i know there are already new metas out there, but it still a huge nerf to what it was. Like i said, i've put over 1000 hours into the game in about a year. Do you know the number of times i saw players complaining in game about this weapon or that play style or that frame being too powerful and ruining the game experience for others?  Zero. Not once. The only times i witness some issues between players in a squad were either someone *@##$ing or asking a Limbo player to stop doing their thing, which is really irrelevant because you can just leave the bubble and do your own thing anyway.  The other times was in survival missions, mainly in arbitrations when some players want to camp someplace to make it collecting loot easier and others just want to wander the map. That is the situation that i've seen cause some real conflict and rudeness between players and i don't think there's a solution to it. It's just part of doing public missions.

Take for example the 'spin to win' gameplay with atterax and the reason why you nerfed maiming strike i guess. How was it ruining the game? I've rarely seen players using it outside of ESO or some Sortie missions. Personally, in the brief time i get to used it fully, i only used it in ESO also and long runs in disruption. And guess what, nobody complained. Like i never seen anyone complaining because someone is playing Saryn or Equinox or Mesa or Trinity. Hell, if i get a player in my squad who can help me get through a tough mission, i'm appreciative. Whenever i get a wisp player in my squad i could just kiss him/her, because wisps make everything better. I don't know where you getting this negative information or feedback from outside of a few people in forums perhaps, because i just don't see it in game. Brutally nerfing weapons and frames just because a few people don't like them is a slippery slope, because if you're consistent, then you need to get rid of riven mods, the new kuva weapons, a huge chunk of frames including the recently reworked Ember and dozens of weapons. It's like you're teasing little children with some wonderful toys to play only to take them away later and say they can't have them anymore. Why? I've seen arguments about its use in lower level content with lower level players. Well, at some point any frame and weapon with a decent build you bring at those level missions will clean house anyway, so what's the point? I've heard the same argument for the initial nerfing of Ember's World on Fire. It didn't make a difference anyway and you turned her even more powerful in her rework. I'm honestly confused. In any case, i remember as a new player when doing missions with other higher level missions, i was just in awe with their abilities. I didn't complain or *@##$ about it. I just wanted to improve my account and get to that level too. My only problem was they were doing the missions too damn fast for someone who didn't even know the maps. Hint for new players, try everything solo first when starting out. As for the argument of making the game too easy, i also don't get it. The game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. You want a challenge, there's ESO and long runs in endless missions and arbitrations. And if that's not enough, try them solo. 

Another issue i see developing because of these changes and nerfs is a hit on diversity of gameplay.

This is an example. I know warframe is not a stealth game, but when i'm playing Loki in solo spy missions i like to pretend it is. It's a palate cleanser for me. I know i can do the missions faster by just cruising to the objectives or just shoot everything in sight on my way there, but i used to have fun with the covert lethality mod in daggers and do one shot stealth kills. Now, in higher levels and for certain enemy units, i can't. The mod wasn't breaking the game, because i could just finish faster without using it. Nerfing the mod didn't changed anything except removing a little side fun i had with an alternative gameplay. Which i suspect applies to Ash. I haven't play him much yet, but i've heard that his raison d'être for being a unique and powerful offensive frame was this mod. Once again you remove a unique gameplay from the board.

Anyway, let's get to specifics (i'll keep it brief because this is already too long):

Melee combos -  I think it's an improvement. Its implementation is causing some issues, and the fixes seem to have caused others, but i still think it's something worth keeping and try to figure out how to correct any problems derived from it.

Heavy attacks - i hate it with a passion right now.  Not only it's not as good and satisfying as the previous melee system, but it's incredibly awkward to use and i don't. Now, i could live with the nerf that is the combo counter serving essentially to feed the heavy attack feature i don't use, but currently i can't even build a decent combo counter anyway. The heavy attack keeps activating whenever it pleases without me holding the attack button.  I can't reach a combo of 3x or 4x let alone 12x. Hilariously, i can't use melee on melee weapons such as gunblades, because they just shoot now. This is probably the most common complaint i've seen in the forum, it completely breaks the use of melee in higher level and i have yet to see some acknowledgement from you (if you did i apologize i missed it) about it. This is a serious issue and off all the problems that came from the recent updates, this should have top priority.

Combo counter - i can't say for sure now, because i can't keep a combo counter currently, but before the heavy attacks started screwing with it, i noticed that the counter would reset to zero way too fast even with duration mods like drifting contact or body count. I try putting them both on and the counter definitely reset way too fast. I'm not sure if this is something you guys fixed it already, but i figured it was worth mentioning.

Hopefully you'll read this in a constructive way. I've tried to point out the positives and not just the negatives. I have faith in you. You've earn that from me and many others. If i put up this wall of text is a sign of how much i care.

This is how feedback should be. Also, I don't mind all the changes myself, but... At least fix the Kuva Lich system! Please!

[Shemarria]

My ONLY complaint with 'Rising Tide'?
Why can't we at least paint our Railjacks?  I don't care (right now) about taking it out for a spin... I just want to get rid of that gawd-awful [censored]ing UGLY terracotta paint job. 
That's it. 
Make it happen SOONER than soon(tm).
Let us clean-up the thing. 
Thank you.

[velsomnia]

39 minutes ago, Shemarria said:

My ONLY complaint with 'Rising Tide'?
Why can't we at least paint our Railjacks?  I don't care (right now) about taking it out for a spin... I just want to get rid of that gawd-awful [censored]ing UGLY terracotta paint job. 
That's it. 
Make it happen SOONER than soon(tm).
Let us clean-up the thing. 
Thank you.

Judging by the Twitter post that was made right after you typed this I would say that your wish came true almost instantly.