Empyrean and the decline of Warframe

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s a reason Activision and EA tried to catch up to Warframe with Destiny and Anthem. There’s also a reason why Warframe has been praised as the best out of the 3. DE has never resorted to scummy crap like this. And there’s no reason for them to sink to EAs and Activisions level. Warframe worked because it was fair while also being F2p. They’re losing that fairness.

Oh please get of that #*!%ing high horse.

This isnt some Activison or EA scum thing. This is a classic good 'ol looting system that has been part of the genre since D1 (that is Diablo, not Destiny). So please spare me the BS of comparing it to AV or EA when in reality it is just common arpg and looter shooter itemization that has jack and squat to do with if it is F2P or not. This system we have here is even more generous than Diablo 3 when it comes to RNG stats and materials. And it is magnitudes more generous than the system in one of the most popular arpgs out there i.e Path of Exile.

And again, stop bringing up things like AV and EA, since they have nothing to do with the itemization design whatsoever since it outdates their games by about 25 years.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Oh please get of that #*!%ing high horse.

This isnt some Activison or EA scum thing. This is a classic good 'ol looting system that has been part of the genre since D1 (that is Diablo, not Destiny). So please spare me the BS of comparing it to AV or EA when in reality it is just common arpg and looter shooter itemization that has jack and squat to do with if it is F2P or not. This system we have here is even more generous than Diablo 3 when it comes to RNG stats and materials. And it is magnitudes more generous than the system in one of the most popular arpgs out there i.e Path of Exile.

And again, stop bringing up things like AV and EA, since they have nothing to do with the itemization design whatsoever since it outdates their games by about 25 years.

Just because it’s better than another games RNG stated items doesn’t means it’s not worse than the grind we already had. The Lich system has been a flop because it’s nothing but RNG grind for what most of the time will likely be weapons you don’t want. People are angry over the RNG stats because there’s no excuse for them to exist. You can cry “it prolongs the game” all you want, but when that “game prolonging” content is actively making people leave the game instead of playing it. It’s incredibly easy to argue otherwise.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just because it’s better than another games RNG stated items doesn’t means it’s not worse than the grind we already had. The Lich system has been a flop because it’s nothing but RNG grind for what most of the time will likely be weapons you don’t want. People are angry over the RNG stats because there’s no excuse for them to exist. You can cry “it prolongs the game” all you want, but when that “game prolonging” content is actively making people leave the game instead of playing it. It’s incredibly easy to argue otherwise.

It isnt about prolonging the game, it is about the actual thrill of being able to hunt items that may be better, it is about finding an items that is really good but still knowing you might be able to get something even better.

The lich system is its own little screwed up thing. There are too many things with the system that needs changes. Empyrean however does a fantastic job with RNG based loot progression. The whole progression system of empyrean is great since it has both levels that matter (alot), linear loot (weapons) aswell as good RNG itemization (cores, engines, shields) and then avionics that end up somewhere in between linear and random. It is probably one of the best additions to WF, not only because of the loot and progression, but because enemies have far better scaling in there aswell.

I mean, it is so odd that the same people that released the lich system, which is barely acceptable and bearable also created something like empyrean, which is very easy to enjoy, while also having good balance, progression aswell as an actual loot hunt. There are only a few costs that need some alterations to make the loot hunt tip top. It is already fun and it already gives you that thrilling feel of heading back to the dojo to check on the drops you got, to decide on which ones to save or scrap.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It isnt about prolonging the game, it is about the actual thrill of being able to hunt items that may be better, it is about finding an items that is really good but still knowing you might be able to get something even better.

The lich system is its own little screwed up thing. There are too many things with the system that needs changes. Empyrean however does a fantastic job with RNG based loot progression. The whole progression system of empyrean is great since it has both levels that matter (alot), linear loot (weapons) aswell as good RNG itemization (cores, engines, shields) and then avionics that end up somewhere in between linear and random. It is probably one of the best additions to WF, not only because of the loot and progression, but because enemies have far better scaling in there aswell.

I mean, it is so odd that the same people that released the lich system, which is barely acceptable and bearable also created something like empyrean, which is very easy to enjoy, while also having good balance, progression aswell as an actual loot hunt. There are only a few costs that need some alterations to make the loot hunt tip top. It is already fun and it already gives you that thrilling feel of heading back to the dojo to check on the drops you got, to decide on which ones to save or scrap.

DE 2017: We want to reduce the grind

DE 2019: Introducing two new game systems where one is literally nothing more than excessive RNG stacking and grind, and the other ties part of your progression to upgrades with completely random stats.

They don’t have our interests in mind as much as they used to.

And knowing that there could be a better version of the item you got is more demoralizing than it is thrilling. Because it means you COULD have gotten a better item but the game was like “naw f*** you”.

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Awazx]

Il y a 1 heure, Mr.Serio a dit :

for my part if I tried empirio and I must say that it was a total disappointment.

Completely agree with you friend. The more I play Empyrean, the more I see that it is another desperate attempt to "tie" players to an endless cycle of endless grinding. As Lich, we have RNG + RNG. We have an unnecessarily confusing and exhausting ship progression and improvement system that can only be palliated by spending 50 plat on a drone. For God's sake: they haven't given a sad tutorial to help the player in his advance. How can there be people in this forum who defend DE in these circumstances?

Now we have to wait, and see if DE manages to "connect" all the scattered systems to give this senseless disaster a coherent and orderly way. And that means two things: first, that all DE resources will be focused on Empyrean and the New War. And second, that due to the former, everything we already have in Waframe, from Waframes to the central systems (syndicates, focus, mod, missions, "open world") will be abandoned to their fate for another several years.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

DE 2017: We want to reduce the grind

DE 2019: Introducing two new game systems where one is literally nothing more than excessive RNG stacking and grind, and the other ties part of your progression to upgrades with completely random stats.

They don’t have our interests in mind as much as they used to.

And knowing that there could be a better version of the item you got is more demoralizing than it is thrilling. Because it means you COULD have gotten a better item but the game was like “naw f*** you”.

Everyone enjoys different things. I've enjoyed RNG item hunting ever since I started focusing on crafting back in Dark Age of Camelot. There is something with seeing new shinies that have a slightly higher stat. It is also one of the most common things you expect in a looter shooter or arpg. 

Plus, Empyrean is far from as grindy as people claim. there are only a few select materials that are a bit too costly. Which is what DE wants us to tell them, hence why we have this alpha version of it. It is easy to pass judgement on something you havent tried, which is the case here with you complaining on RJ before you've even had a chance to actually play it. In reality, DE have nearly struck a perfect balance with their loot in empyrean.

[PyreFox]

Face it, Warframe is too niche to die. It's a glorious looking game that's for free, and a lot of us just like causually playing.

So no, Warframe isn't going away, it may not be top of charts, but the game will always be playable to new players and returning.

[Corvid]

It's also worth noting that the "prohibitive" cost only really needs to be paid about once per slot, since you get a refund of materials upon scrapping an item.

[Awazx]

il y a 11 minutes, PyreFox a dit :

Face it, Warframe is too niche to die. 

I accept it. But I also affirm that if DE continues with this way of doing things, Warframe will not grow much more.

[844448]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s a reason Activision and EA tried to catch up to Warframe with Destiny and Anthem. There’s also a reason why Warframe has been praised as the best out of the 3. DE has never resorted to scummy crap like this. And there’s no reason for them to sink to EAs and Activisions level. Warframe worked because it was fair while also being F2p. They’re losing that fairness.

Feel free to blame those who whine "no content" and "we need sustainable content" because this is what sustainable content is, from dungeon to raid

[Ether-Prime]

Empyrean seems...gimmicky?  I guess I just don't care for archwing much. I hope they let this die fairly soon....

[Mr.Serio]

hace 17 minutos, PyreFox dijo:

Face it, Warframe is too niche to die. It's a glorious looking game that's for free, and a lot of us just like causually playing.

So no, Warframe isn't going away, it may not be top of charts, but the game will always be playable to new players and returning.

I don't want warframe to die, I've been playing this for about 5 years, I love warframe and I really enjoy playing it, either alone or with friends, but these latest updates bother me. I no longer see DE in the same way, that need they have to upload everything halfway is what makes me fed up, for my part I have no problems in suffering from "content void" for a while, in exchange for an update decent. I had such faith in empirio, because I like that roll of being the captain of a ship and having a coordinated crew, where working together leads you to victory; but the way they implemented it was so insipid, so brazen, so bethesda style with fallout 76, it made it absolutely clear that I can't expect anything from them in the future.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Mr.Serio

[Awazx]

il y a 3 minutes, Mr.Serio a dit :

I don't want warframe to die, I've been playing this for about 5 years, I love warframe and I really enjoy playing it, either alone or with friends, but these latest updates bother me. I no longer see DE in the same way, that need they have to upload everything halfway is what makes me fed up, for my part I have no problems in suffering from "content void" for a while, in exchange for an update decent. I had such faith in empirio, because I like that roll of being the captain of a ship and having a coordinated crew, where working together leads you to victory; but the way they implemented it was so insipid, so brazen, so bethesda style with fallout 76, it made it absolutely clear that I can't expect anything from them in the future.

I subscribe each word.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Rng stats on a game with loot is like the most common practice literally look at any other looter shooter especially borderlands

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

Rng Roll on drop is good for a game with free and immediate usable stuff like Diablo and all, but for a game with craft time and resources cost it's the worst thing possible.

DE needs to choose which one they want for Warframe as both cannot fit together.

Edited December 18, 2019 by (PS4)Herrwann69

[Diavoros]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Rng Roll on drop us good for a game with free and immediate usable stuff like Diablo and all, but for a game with craft time and resources cost it's the worst thing possible.

DE needs to choose which one they want for Warframe as both cannot fit together.

Indeed, if we obtained the pieces ready to use there wouldn't be as much of a problem with them being randomized stats, because it would work like in other games that give random stats in equipment pickups (still not a fan of this practice, in any game), however we have to repair such items before making them usable, which is either by dumping absurd quantities of resources on them or paying 50 plat, just to later make such investment worthless on the light of obtaining something significantly better, that is the same item, not a different tier.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I agree my friend.
DE always forgot about the core of this game and release parallel content even if nobody asked for it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

57 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Feel free to blame those who whine "no content" and "we need sustainable content" because this is what sustainable content is, from dungeon to raid

Subjecting players to unreasonable amounts of grind is not sustainable content. That’s like saying drinking hydrochloric acid will prolong your life.

[844448]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Subjecting players to unreasonable amounts of grind is not sustainable content. That’s like saying drinking hydrochloric acid will prolong your life.

Isn't unreasonable amount of grind the main foundation of every single sustainable content? Why does that magically not working in warframe while it's praised on other games? Double standard?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Isn't unreasonable amount of grind the main foundation of every single sustainable content? Why does that magically not working in warframe while it's praised on other games? Double standard?

They could just make the grind reasonable, the game modes fun, and just keep it updated.

Theres no reason for a game to ever rely on excessive grind to keep their game alive. There’s far better and more consumer friendly ways of doing that.

Also, didn’t Steve say that he didn’t want to follow in other games footsteps? So wouldn’t copying the grind methods of games like Diablo and borderlands just make that statement a complete lie?

[844448]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They could just make the grind reasonable, the game modes fun, and just keep it updated.

Theres no reason for a game to ever rely on excessive grind to keep their game alive. There’s far better and more consumer friendly ways of doing that.

Also, didn’t Steve say that he didn’t want to follow in other games footsteps? So wouldn’t copying the grind methods of games like Diablo and borderlands just make that statement a complete lie?

Tell me, what are those far better and more consumer friendly ways you mentioned?

Also, decisions can change. The Jovian Concord got dismissed as "2 hours worth of content" and people keep asking "where new content?" so I'm not surprised if Steve deciced to follow other games footsteps for sustainable content these people keep asking for, over and over

[-skimmer-]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Subjecting players to unreasonable amounts of grind is not sustainable content. That’s like saying drinking hydrochloric acid will prolong your life.

Except the whole thing can be done within a week. Im nearly maxed, sitting at built mk3 stuff and thats despite being an adult with a job.

Its not grindy. All the stuff drops in generous enough quantities so you can always have something building. Its called a progression system and you are not supposed to be done with it instantly. If anything, I blew through it too fast because I was having fun.

Edited December 18, 2019 by -skimmer-

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Tell me, what are those far better and more consumer friendly ways you mentioned?

Anything that’s not excessive grind, RNG stacking, Incorporating Riven mechanics into actual game progression. They’ve been making the game for 7 years, and that’s been working for them for 7 YEARS! They shouldn’t abandon the thing that made them successful. Ok I felt the grind of getting Khora, But I still played through SO until I got her. I gave up on the Lich system after my first Lich. I wanted a Kuva kohm, but the sheer amount of grind and RNG stacking of just a single Lich made me give up on it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

Except the whole thing can be done within a week. Im nearly maxed, sitting at built mk3 stuff and thats despite being an adult with a job.

But are they good MK3 stuff? Cuz remember, RNG stats.

[Anduvriel]

Well i was wrong, i thought the range on those rng things is small. Its in fact huge.

I think they added weapons to that rullete in this update, check your weapons, above all stats there is a new white "firerate" that is random, have no idea what it does.

With liches rng, it doesn't matter much, its 25-60% mulitplier, so your weapon is just 25% worse than top (on the worst possible roll or top is 33% better), but when you get as i did a 6 capacity avionics when max is 30 for that same engine... you start to wonder when there is a 500% better roll than the worst one. 500 is a big number and it affects capacity on top!