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Vit0Corleone

Do primaries/secondaries need a buff?

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I agree with this, I've been fooling around with Vauban and the Veldt. (it has a riven that makes it viable, and it sounds so satisfying) 

There should be a combo counter or elemental overload available. Snipers already have a combo counter, why not other weapons? 

 

My opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, as I tend to play this as a cover shooter. Loads of fun as the AI plays along. Takes 30 minutes to clear an extermination, but I feel like I've really done well when I see that 0% damage taken in single player. 

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38 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

You must be new here. 

Founder who's played constantly for the last 7 years.

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vor 20 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Skiller115:

Acceltra and Kuva Karak disagrees with you.

they are only "ok" with specific warframes.

i play mostly with kuva ogris/amprex and dual ichor. only dual ichor melts everything. and mele dont need ammo and you are in mele range in no time.

there is no point to play without aoe against small crap and mele. rifles are very weak and make no sense. single target aim isnt rewarded in this game.

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Primaries need a buff and a very good one at that.
Most of them don't work well without the crutch mod (hunter munitions).
And I'm not talking about lv40-120, but above.
Secondaries are much stronger overall, but they are in the same path as primaries.
For both types you expand a lot of forma, have all the prime mods etc and still have to shoot lv135(the max level I can test in simulacrum) a couple of times(in weaker weapons 2-3 mags) before he goes down.
And no, rivens should not be a factor, only standard builds.
Melee(even after they nerfed CO and BR) still scales well into high levels.

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11 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Primaries need a buff and a very good one at that.
Most of them don't work well without the crutch mod (hunter munitions).
And I'm not talking about lv40-120, but above.
Secondaries are much stronger overall, but they are in the same path as primaries.
For both types you expand a lot of forma, have all the prime mods etc and still have to shoot lv135(the max level I can test in simulacrum) a couple of times(in weaker weapons 2-3 mags) before he goes down.
And no, rivens should not be a factor, only standard builds.
Melee(even after they nerfed CO and BR) still scales well into high levels.

See, the game is not balanced (or even designed) for post level 120 mobs. DE kinda hinted with Kuva Liches, that this is kinda is the max point where they balance stuff. 

Does that mean all primaries and secondaries work well? No. But Does Fulmin, Acceletra or Rubico prime need a buff (among other weapons)? No. 

I think reworking armor will be much better off for making more primaries and secondaries viable. It is armor that push them out, for the most part.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

It is armor that push them out, for the most part.

Yep, armour scaling is a topic for years as far as I know, but nothing is done about it.
In the current state of the game tho primaries and secondaries are weak af compared to melee.

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1 minute ago, vegetosayajin said:

Yep, armour scaling is a topic for years as far as I know, but nothing is done about it.
In the current state of the game tho primaries and secondaries are weak af compared to melee.

They reported last devstream that they are going to revisit armor scaling at higher levels, make it increase slower

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

They reported last devstream that they are going to revisit armor scaling at higher levels, make it increase slower

Ya, but the example they used was laughable. The issue with the armor is not having 95% instead of 97% damage reduction on mobs. The way it works need to fundamentally change. Armor needs to be set at a specific percentage and the scaling is completely removed. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Ya, but the example they used was laughable. The issue with the armor is not having 95% instead of 97% damage reduction on mobs. The way it works need to fundamentally change. Armor needs to be set at a specific percentage and the scaling is completely removed. 

Agreed, but this is a step in the right direction at least

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It is more of a case of "damage needs a rework" more than primary and secondary weapons needing a buff. Of course there are several weapons in those categories that perform absolutely awful or were good once and got hit by the powercreep.

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On 2020-01-26 at 8:48 AM, Vit0Corleone said:

In recent times, I've been increasingly depending more and more on melee for pretty much everything that is high level content.

That isn't to say that primaries/secondaries aren't able to do the job, but rather that melee is so OP currently, that ends up being the logical choice as primary means for dealing with most enemies.

I'm sure I'm not alone here, is this the general feeling around the community as well?

If so, do you think DE should consider buffing primaries/secondaries to balance things out?

 

The trend of the past 20 months is to nerf whatever is stronger to force players to use weaker and less fun weapons. As terrible as sounds, it’s been like this for a while. So DE might nerf melee again. Don’t bother to ask for buffs. 

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4 hours ago, Corvid said:

Founder who's played constantly for the last 7 years.

Then you must not remember how shotguns used to be. By your logic they were fine the way they were.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Then you must not remember how shotguns used to be. By your logic they were fine the way they were.

Don't put words in my mouth.

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Speaking of Primaries and Secondaries, I think Empyrean has shown the damage gap even moreso.

I've been playing Empyrean a lot since it hit the Switch, and I've noticed one thing in particular that bugs me.

All the ground force Grineer are so spongy that shooting them is slower than just compacting them with Vauban and spamming melee 90% of the time. That's not to say my Tiberon Prime CAN'T kill them, but the time to kill difference is noticeable, and when a boarding party of 8 or so show up shooting them is far and away my worst option because it takes like 2-3 bursts to the head to kill one, whereas -insert melee weapon here- can wildly swing at a Vortex filled with them and be done in seconds.

Perhaps that stems more from the Empyrean number balance being wonky that guns being weak though.

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7 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

Primaries need a buff and a very good one at that.
Most of them don't work well without the crutch mod (hunter munitions).
And I'm not talking about lv40-120, but above.
Secondaries are much stronger overall, but they are in the same path as primaries.
For both types you expand a lot of forma, have all the prime mods etc and still have to shoot lv135(the max level I can test in simulacrum) a couple of times(in weaker weapons 2-3 mags) before he goes down.
And no, rivens should not be a factor, only standard builds.
Melee(even after they nerfed CO and BR) still scales well into high levels.

That's because your guns are weak, my Kuva Karak can melt level 170 Corrupted Heavy gunners like butter in a forge!

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The typical fight in Warframe is firing on enemies until you can close distance to melee. Most games like this it's key to fire on a group of enemies, then close and finish them off with melee. Melee is strong but you don't want to restrict yourself to only using it. 

One thing I'd like now is giving weapons some improvements as they increase in level, stats like fire rate, status, critical chance, and reload getting better but not damage per say. Most other things scale up with level, so I don't see why weapons can't. 

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On 2020-01-26 at 10:58 AM, Vit0Corleone said:

No, I have pretty much all guns available.

I think you missed the point. I'm not saying primaries/secondaries are bad, not at all. I'm saying that melee is, at last for me, usually a better choice if I want to do things efficiently. Or rather, the default choice.

Then you really just prefer melee to guns, its not hard to believe. Lots of players are that way.

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7 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

Primaries need a buff and a very good one at that.
Most of them don't work well without the crutch mod (hunter munitions).
And I'm not talking about lv40-120, but above.
Secondaries are much stronger overall, but they are in the same path as primaries.
For both types you expand a lot of forma, have all the prime mods etc and still have to shoot lv135(the max level I can test in simulacrum) a couple of times(in weaker weapons 2-3 mags) before he goes down.
And no, rivens should not be a factor, only standard builds.
Melee(even after they nerfed CO and BR) still scales well into high levels.

And here we go again trying to make giving crit weapons without slash some slash damage, and making it sound like its a bad thing. Why even, why is it so bad to you, why is it all of a sudden such a problem? I don't get it, someone please explain it to me.

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Several primaries and secondaries need a buff, but there are plenty that are extremely good.

The major problem is that in a game where decimating groups of enemies is the goal, single target weapons quickly fall behind. If this game had bosses that were worth a damn we'd see a much bigger use of single target weapons. And in such a case they could better balance all the weapon types to have single target and AoE options, where the AoE choices would have far lower damage that was still high enough to effectively clean out trash. This would make those options bad choices to kill bosses, but would also keep them useful since you'd need them to clear trash.

Pretty basic design that most games do, but here we have the AoE and single target in the same weapon/stance, where the AoE hits as hard as the single target option, or where your single target move decimates a wide area. Bad balance, bad design.

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If Railjack enemies become the new norm for armor/health you're going to see guns used less and less. Why bother trying to find a gun that can kill officers quickly when I can just whack them with my lifestealing nikana? Buffing damage isn't going to solve anything though. What we need is a balanced damage 3.0 that revisits health/shields/armor/damage types.

 

Building corrosive or slash/viral for literally everything is just old at this point.

 

Spoiler

Make Tonkor great again

 

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If you're total damage is higher than others, but your totals kills isn't, you're doing something wrong... you know because overkill damage is calculated..

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11 hours ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

That's because your guns are weak, my Kuva Karak can melt level 170 Corrupted Heavy gunners like butter in a forge!

I have a 40+% toxin kuva karak, the weapon is fine but the kill time is way slower than any melee I have.That is the point of the topic.
And if you are using some wf buffs this is not a test, test is without any arcanes, wf buffs, rivens and hunter munitions.
If you can kill lv170 with no outside buffs and rivens in a couple of bullets(half a magazine most) show it.

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

 I don't get it, someone please explain it to me.

It's not a "problem" for me, I just agreed to the topic at hand, because it's a fact that primaries and secondaries feel weak compared to melee.

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4 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

the kill time is way slower than any melee I have

Yeah, because you can sit at the back of the room in cover with your rifle, but your melee requires you to go to them. It's risk/reward, simple as

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                                                                                        Nothing will beat melee in DPS.

If you think that some sheety kuva karak (lol at that guy) or ANY primary/secondary (except snipers cause they have combo counter + Gas with Bane/HM) can outdps / do more kills per minute than melee you are simply r*******. Yeah that might be true in toddler difficulty and yeah with HM some weapons can scale decently even over 200+ armored enemies but thats just few weapons (and with riven ofc). Mostly weapons with enough base dmg and crit to be HM viable (snipers are perfect for this, Opticors, Chakkhurr, Prisma Grinlok, Zhuge prime, all bows and few others can do decent/meaningful bleeds). HM is literally saving grace for many crit weapons, without it primaries has literally 0 ability to scale and yet some clueless individuals are starting threads about HM being removed, smh.

Secondaries are "useless" (cant scale) only useful for stacking elements for CO melee or stripping armor if you go endurance. They good until like lvl 200 (most of them falloff MUCH sooner im being very generous here).

And even if you run 4x CP melee >>>>> primaries (except snipers as we learned before). If you think you gonna kill lets say lvl 500 with primary/secondary you are delusional.

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52 minutes ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said:

Yeah, because you can sit at the back of the room in cover with your rifle, but your melee requires you to go to them. It's risk/reward, simple as

Parrying says hello.

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