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Kuva Lich 1.1: Feedback Megathread


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1 hour ago, 0verridden said:

Prefacing this quick post by saying that I understand that it is my bad for not understanding what DE meant when they said they are now no longer allowing liches to give the same weapon twice in a row. I spent 4hours farming for a lich, not knowing this. As expected, I should have known better than to blindly trust the game's UI to tell me this.

 

That being said, what I do not understand is why we are not able to farm for a lich to have the same weapon as the previous one did, now that we can see the weapon being displayed??? You added a somewhat bad solution to the problem of players getting a weapon they did not want again, and then added a second better solution, giving this illusion of full choice, when in reality, now we are teased with all the weapons BUT the one we might want to farm successively for?!

 

Well, either they left it in to make us do two liches for every upgrade to a given weapon, or they just forgot to take it out once they changed the system.

I kinda think they just forgot how that would work with the new system.

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My feedback is:

  • The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Showing the weapon you're about to embark on is an excellent idea, but is implemented poorly. It's true that grinding Larvlings for the right weapon is much better than grinding Liches, but it's still a mindless grind for no reason. There is no skill or expenditure of resources in running Cassini over and over and over just to see the weapon you want and start the true grind. Why not show a slowly rotating roulette wheel over the Larvling starting from a randomly chosen position? Why not introduce a plat item to force Larvlings to spawn with a specific weapon or change the weapon of a Lich?

  • Breaking Your Back for Knowledge

This is a great change both mentally and just in terms of the flow of the mission.

  • Valence FUSION

I don't use this and so have no feedback

  • General

There are still a lot of things wrong with the Lich system in general. What you've applied here was a bandaid that ensures that players have to run the Lich system less, but it doesn't actually fix anything about the unsatisfying gameplay. It still takes a long and unsatisfying time to deal with a Lich. In my view there are several points that still need to be addressed:

  • Lv5 Liches are too extreme. While they're still totally doable the amount of damage they can deal, especially with specific weapons like the Tonkor, just ensure endless 1-hit KOs. They also enforce normal enemies of Lv100+, which makes certain mission types unplayable. The problem here isn't that it's too hard, it's that it's not fun to run repeatedly. If the Lv5 stage was the apex of the Lich system and you only had to run 1 or 2 missions in that phase it wouldn't be so terrible. I would propose that Lv4 stats and levels become the new Lv5 and the other 4 levels are re-balanced proportionately. Again, the issue here isn't about what's possible. It's about what's fun when you need to run it many, many times repeatedly.
  • Lich resistances need an overhaul. It is possible for a Lich to have no weaknesses and resistances or immunities only, making them extremely tough to take down. While this can be built around with a creative loadout, how is your randomly selected group supposed to know? It's very often that a random Lich encounter in a public group results in me doing 1 or 2 damage a shot with a weapon that normally does many thousands. I think that Liches don't need immunities at all and their resistances could be toned down in favor of more scaling armor.
  • Lich throw animations are still broken. They take way too long, deal extreme damage, and give the Lich hyper armor for the duration. All of these points need to be addressed. The animation should be much faster, there is no reason for it to be so long and punishing. The damage also needs to be toned way down. RIght now melee on a Lich can be a gamble as their grab animation is random and can snap onto your character which makes dodging difficult. There is also no reason for the hyper armor. The Lich can also grab non-player entities like spectres, or Mirage's phantoms. It's very common to see the Lich grappling whatever it can and becoming nigh-invulnerable in it's annoyingly long animation.
  • The entire murmur system is also at odds with itself. What's the purpose for them at all? What are Lich fights supposed to be? Is the challenge of a Lich in the guessing, the grinding, the mission, or the Lich itself? Right now it's all of the above, which makes the whole system bloated and feel like a jumbled mess. I would propose that the Lich should be about the guessing. Each attempt should show if a rune in use is wrong entirely, right, or right and in the right position. This would allow the player to reasonably determine the Lich combination without the need for Murmurs at all. If murmurs have to stay I would say change it so tiers 2 and 3 require less murmurs, or add murmurs as a reward for mission completion, or make murmurs effected by resource boosting, or vastly increase the spawn of thralls, or all of the above.
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On 2020-02-04 at 6:50 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Valence FUSION

First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer, now retitled Valence Fusion for clarity, was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapons innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!

  • Valence Fusion now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be fed into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

This is a huge improvement, but still needs a tweak - is should be possible to pick which of the two weapons' element you get. Currently it always switches to the destroyed gun, which means if I have, say, a levelled Kuva Kohm with 30% toxin and a new Kuva Kohm with 50% Impact I either have to sacrifice the good element (seriously, who ever wants Impact on anything? But that's feedback for another time) or sacrifice my progress (or wait until I get a 3rd new Kohm with toxin again and then go leveled toxin + impact + toxin to keep my bonus type).

If the goal is to make every lich worthwhile it fails, because only liches with the good stats are worth spending time on. I'd like to generate some Impact/Magnetic ones, but know they will feel like a pointless slog given their weapon is a downgrade for something I already have.

On 2020-02-04 at 6:50 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Starting from the very beginning of Kuva Lich conception brings us to Kuva Larvlings. Kuva Larvlings will now play a key role in determining your future relationship with your Kuva Lich.

  • A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that it’s birthed Kuva Lich will possess!
  • This allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich. The Kuva Larvling will be in this downed state for a max of 30 seconds before it perishes

Again, this is a huge improvement, it makes liches worth hunting again.

However, it's still a very burnout-able loop. Do mission, hope larvelling spawns, down larvelling, oh f**k another Kuva Kracken/Karak? FFS, repeat, again and again and again. Hours of doing the same mission with the same frame over and over in the hope of getting a weapon that we actually want.

By the way, are Krakens and Karaks supposed to spawn 5-10x more often than the other weapons? They come up on the vast majority of larvellings that I down, regardless of the frame I use.

So, have some vendor sell weapon tokens for either Kuva or some new resource we get from fighting liches. Buy a Bramma token and that's the next weapon, instead of yet another Kraken.

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Am 5.2.2020 um 03:46 schrieb Slayer_of_PCs:

@[DE]Rebecca

please allow us to see whether a larvaling will spawn with ephemera when their weapon is displayed. 
 

I would also like to see the current bonus on a Kuva weapon (e.g., 51.5% Heat). This is important as I forget what my current bonuses are and I won’t be able to use my codex of vanquished liches to research it after doing Valence Fusion. It would be nice to see this on the forge as well. 

Just this....

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On 2020-02-11 at 10:19 AM, (XB1)CONAN 42576 said:

Is it just me or are all the weapons coming with a low roll?  Pre update I was getting 40% rolls, and after I got 29% and lower on 3 weapons in a row.  Now that the weapons are progressive in their stats, is this on purpose just to make us grind more or is rng on rolls worse than before?

I may be extremely lucky (I usually am!) but it doesn't seem to be too lopsided for me, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was rigged to be low usually. I have 5 weapons which were in this order: 29%, 33%, 51%, 57%, 51%. Just to give a different perspective. I don't plan on getting any more until this system is heavily reworked.

EDIT: Just realizing that I commented earlier in this thread that I was likely not going to do anymore liches after my first or second one. So hey, the system is only mildly fun sometimes and bland, but it did get me to come back for more. But that's more lent towards the carrot on a stick analogy then it being genuinely entertaining. I'm really hoping the next update is added entertainment value rather than added weapons.

Edited by Fiddlestixxx
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6 hours ago, Lysserd said:

My feedback is:

  • The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Showing the weapon you're about to embark on is an excellent idea, but is implemented poorly. It's true that grinding Larvlings for the right weapon is much better than grinding Liches, but it's still a mindless grind for no reason. There is no skill or expenditure of resources in running Cassini over and over and over just to see the weapon you want and start the true grind. Why not show a slowly rotating roulette wheel over the Larvling starting from a randomly chosen position? Why not introduce a plat item to force Larvlings to spawn with a specific weapon or change the weapon of a Lich?

  • Breaking Your Back for Knowledge

This is a great change both mentally and just in terms of the flow of the mission.

  • Valence FUSION

I don't use this and so have no feedback

  • General

There are still a lot of things wrong with the Lich system in general. What you've applied here was a bandaid that ensures that players have to run the Lich system less, but it doesn't actually fix anything about the unsatisfying gameplay. It still takes a long and unsatisfying time to deal with a Lich. In my view there are several points that still need to be addressed:

  • Lv5 Liches are too extreme. While they're still totally doable the amount of damage they can deal, especially with specific weapons like the Tonkor, just ensure endless 1-hit KOs. They also enforce normal enemies of Lv100+, which makes certain mission types unplayable. The problem here isn't that it's too hard, it's that it's not fun to run repeatedly. If the Lv5 stage was the apex of the Lich system and you only had to run 1 or 2 missions in that phase it wouldn't be so terrible. I would propose that Lv4 stats and levels become the new Lv5 and the other 4 levels are re-balanced proportionately. Again, the issue here isn't about what's possible. It's about what's fun when you need to run it many, many times repeatedly.
  • Lich resistances need an overhaul. It is possible for a Lich to have no weaknesses and resistances or immunities only, making them extremely tough to take down. While this can be built around with a creative loadout, how is your randomly selected group supposed to know? It's very often that a random Lich encounter in a public group results in me doing 1 or 2 damage a shot with a weapon that normally does many thousands. I think that Liches don't need immunities at all and their resistances could be toned down in favor of more scaling armor.
  • Lich throw animations are still broken. They take way too long, deal extreme damage, and give the Lich hyper armor for the duration. All of these points need to be addressed. The animation should be much faster, there is no reason for it to be so long and punishing. The damage also needs to be toned way down. RIght now melee on a Lich can be a gamble as their grab animation is random and can snap onto your character which makes dodging difficult. There is also no reason for the hyper armor. The Lich can also grab non-player entities like spectres, or Mirage's phantoms. It's very common to see the Lich grappling whatever it can and becoming nigh-invulnerable in it's annoyingly long animation.
  • The entire murmur system is also at odds with itself. What's the purpose for them at all? What are Lich fights supposed to be? Is the challenge of a Lich in the guessing, the grinding, the mission, or the Lich itself? Right now it's all of the above, which makes the whole system bloated and feel like a jumbled mess. I would propose that the Lich should be about the guessing. Each attempt should show if a rune in use is wrong entirely, right, or right and in the right position. This would allow the player to reasonably determine the Lich combination without the need for Murmurs at all. If murmurs have to stay I would say change it so tiers 2 and 3 require less murmurs, or add murmurs as a reward for mission completion, or make murmurs effected by resource boosting, or vastly increase the spawn of thralls, or all of the above.

So technically, asking for damage nerf? Sorry, tenno, but this is should be the standard for level 100 enemies, where they're actually dangerous instead of your usual brainless genocide. People complain the game is too easy and we have the answer for that now.

Also, their grab is not random at all if you observe well. They will raise their hands to grab you and being a fast paced game, you would see this or you can keep your distance instead of mindlessly whacking your lich, spamming that melee button.

It's okay to have an extremely tough enemies once a while, the new war is said to be really hard so time to gear up and up your skill instead of asking for tone down.

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On 2020-02-05 at 1:50 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Dear DE,

I think the lich system is fine for now with the changes, but for the gameplay itself is still lacking a bit so I was discussing about upping their aggressiveness and more reason to hunt them as this thread shows

The overall response is positive so I believe this can help on improving the lich gameplay

Regards,

One of the player/registered loser

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Liches could greatly benefit from there being some passive avenues to murmur farming. I have seen the idea of them sending thrall squads into regular missions commonly thrown around. 

Additionally it would be nice to see more personality variants, they would make liches stand out far more than they currently do, they all appear to be clones of the same two individuals despite there being good visual variety.

Edited by Spoop3
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On 2020-02-05 at 1:50 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The Kuva Larvling Who Lived

Starting from the very beginning of Kuva Lich conception brings us to Kuva Larvlings. Kuva Larvlings will now play a key role in determining your future relationship with your Kuva Lich.

  • A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that it’s birthed Kuva Lich will possess!
  • This allows players to decide upfront if they want to pursue that weapon by finishing the downed Kuva Larvling, or to ignore and attempt another Lich. The Kuva Larvling will be in this downed state for a max of 30 seconds before it perishes.

One more thing, I think the interaction with the larvling can be changed to hold for a second or two because apparently people like to stab them without thinking, slowing down and take a look and then, "muscle memory" made them do it. Numerous threads about it with muscle memory or their condition so I think this can help on accidentally making a lich when you don't want to

If they still make one despite one second hold, then I believe no reason to complain because you choose to hold the button

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Murmur grinding is now the big elephant in the room to address. I personally feel that an average of 2-3 hrs to get rid of a lich is very bad and not worth for the reward you are getting. Most of the time you're going to roll a low percentage on your weapon. People only feel satisfied from killing the first lich because the reward is actually what they wanted, their weapon of choice. After that, it reverts to the tedious chore of getting duplicates in order to max out the weapon bonus. Add in the fact that the no immediate duplicate rule is still in effect and that effectively doubles how long it would take to max out the weapon if you are not lucky and didn't roll a 55%+ on the third lich. 

I strongly suggest reducing the murmur grind so that at max it should only take about an hour to get rid of a lich. Most of the time, we're dealing with an unwanted lich because we're either ephemera hunting or trying to get rid of the random lich asap so we can get our duplicate for our weapon of choice. It feels really bad when we create a lich and it either doesn't have the ephemera or is another low roll for our weapon of choice and now we have to waste another 2-3 hours just to get rid of it. After that, we have to create a random lich and waste yet another 2-3 hours to get rid of that before we can create a lich with the duplicate of the weapon of choice. That's almost 6 whole hours just trying to get any meaningful progression. The time invested is not justified by the reward. This is the biggest problem with Warframe right now.

Again, I suggest moving further away from the RNG reliance for the next lich changes. I still stand by the idea of a token system to be implemented into the lich system. In a previous reply I talked about a token system for weapon choice. This time I would like to suggest a token system for the ephemeras. Much like how you changed the sentient ephemera to be token based, I suggest doing the same thing for lich ephemeras. Have them be redeemable through Little Duck in her Exotic Goods shop. Acquisition of each ephemera requires "shards" from the lich you defeat. 

For example, killing or converting a fire lich will give you 1 "fire shard"(not affected by booster) and you need 15 or 20 in order to purchase the Vengeful Flame Ephemera. Killing/converting a Toxic lich would give 1 "toxic shard" and you would need 15-20 for the Vengeful Toxin Ephemera, etc. This way, the ephemera would kinda be achievement based like how you intended them to be instead of RNG reliant. Players would have something else to work towards along with maxing out their weapons. It's another goal to work towards, another incentive to play liches, and again it's player controlled. Of course if this system is implemented then the ephemeras should no longer be tradeable. 

I'm not saying that Warframe should completely be RNG free, I'm merely urging that Warframe doesn't become completely reliant on RNG. Ideally maybe things should be 60% player controlled and 40% RNG. Right now it feels like Warframe is 90% RNG and 10% player control. As for the lich system, I personally think that only the weapon bonus should be RNG reliant, but weapon choice and ephemera acquisition should be 100% player controlled. 

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On 2020-02-13 at 9:36 AM, 0verridden said:

Prefacing this quick post by saying that I understand that it is my bad for not understanding what DE meant when they said they are now no longer allowing liches to give the same weapon twice in a row. I spent 4hours farming for a lich, not knowing this. As expected, I should have known better than to blindly trust the game's UI to tell me this.

 

That being said, what I do not understand is why we are not able to farm for a lich to have the same weapon as the previous one did, now that we can see the weapon being displayed??? You added a somewhat bad solution to the problem of players getting a weapon they did not want again, and then added a second better solution, giving this illusion of full choice, when in reality, now we are teased with all the weapons BUT the one we might want to farm successively for?!

I've gotten a Toxin Bramma at 26% toxin. This rng stat to make me feel special is not the greatest. So I think to myself, to make myself feel slightly more special, lets bump this stat that is the only special, unique stat in the game (that so happens to be about benefiting damage and nothing else), by farming more brammas. But now apparently, I am forced to pad out these liches with ANOTHER kuva weapon in between? Why?

 

Finally, I appreciate the dialogue box showing the kuva weapon we would get from starting a lich. But, why can't I cancel this lich if I accidentally pressed X on it since it is such a common button to press? Why doesn't aborting the mission not cancel this lich, like it cancels the drops I got from the mission? And for all the talk about hold-to-confirm presses, why is that not here when it comes to liches - one of the greatest time sinks in the game currently?

 

And finally, please consider finding some other way for us to grind requime mods? This is an absolutely terrible way to farm them.

 

im pretty sure the duplicate rule was canceled out after we got the ability to see what weapons our lich will have before we commit to it, i think i farmed out 2 of the same weapons back to back without doing any trading, not 100 % but im fairly certain that rule is gone, with the old system that rule was good, but with this system it's horrible, so im pretty sure even if it is still in effect it wont stay 

im sure our community can confirm this so well know for sure, just let us know if you can farm 2 of the same weapons back to back without trading 

Edited by (PS4)willsp282012
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The biggest issue I have with the whole lich system now are the weapons and their max rank to be honest.

You need 5 (!!!) forma per weapon. There are 16 (!!!) weapons right now (with obviously more to be added). So in total 1 faction of liches requires 80 (!!!) forma (for god's sake I even feel sick typing it). Let me say that again, 80 forma! And that's only at the start of this piece of the game that has the potential to add 100s of new weapons. Is that a big problem? Depends...

Right now there are no decent ways to farm forma. You can waste void relics on it but that's basically it. Nightwave has 6 forma as a reward tops, plague star is only once every X months (now it has been a year), ...

This problem can be approached in 2 different ways. "It's hard to get forma" or "The forma cost for kuva weapons is too high". The first statement has the most impact, easier forma -> forma loses part of it's meaning -> everyone just puts forma on stuff without thinking about it, ... The second statement is easy to change but what about people who already invested in it and that other special weapon, the paracesis?

So I think the easiest and perhaps most stable way is to refund some of the stuff when you sell kuva weapons. Let's say a 50% refund. So if you sell 2 kuva weapons you get a refund of 5 forma and 1 catalyst max. That way you lose a little but not everything and you're obliged to sell 2 in this case so it's less of an impulse to sell and you made more commitment to getting them. Since it's only for weapons you sell, the actual investment for weapons you do use stays the same (let's face it, some weapons aren't gonna be used by anyone). 

TL;DR
We need way too many forma to get the mastery. Selling kuva weapons and getting a refund on forma could solve the problem.

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getting your lich to spawn and murmur is still a big problem.

I had a lich that in 4 hours spawned 5 times. Around The 3 hour mark i had all the murmur. then the nightmare of testing it started. every time I met it i tried killing it its rank resets along with the rage and then the nightmare of making it angry again started.

murmur is gained to slow. its also linked to spawn so when less playersis is in a squad less thralls spawn so it punish solo players and players that cant find squads and not finding a squad is easy since the players is split in so many nodes.if the murmu amount isn't decrease how about getting murmur for clearing a node rewarding more for intel gather nodes like spy?

the missions themself I found that excavator in excavation need a buff in hp and i  also think the hijack cores need a buff. i haven't had as much a problem with hijack as excavation but if a single enemy get near it they can shred it in seconds. it is kinda funny that a big core has less hp than a mobile defence console or a defence target.

the larva/weapon farming it's better but it need a slight improvement. abort farming is the best way to do it. if spend 1 hour trying to get the bramma. 1.5 hours on nukar and a  extra 2 hours on  hind. It way better than getting a unwanted lich after unwanted lich but maybe instead of kuva as a mission reward a type of token will be better?

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On 2020-02-04 at 7:50 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Valence FUSION

First introduced in 26.0.6, Valence Transfer, now retitled Valence Fusion for clarity, was designed to address owning duplicate Kuva weapons with different unique innate damage bonuses. Giving you the ability to replace a Kuva weapons innate damage bonus (plus investments like Forma, Focus Lens etc) with one from another Kuva weapon was a good start, but we can push this even further!

  • Valence Fusion now also boosts your Kuva weapons innate damage bonus. Examples:
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 40% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 40% damage can be fed into your 25% weapon, to make it 44%
  • Your Kuva Kohm with 25% damage can be fed into your 44% weapon, to make it 48.4%

in 6 lich my max damage bonus was only 32%, with such low percentages, I will never reach 60%.

 1.1 it is low as an increase.

Edited by (XB1)francy x096
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Litch banishment is still very much needed

or at the very least make it so abandoning or failing a mission you've killed a larva in wont create a litch. or add a secondary "are you sure" confirmation that displays what the larva has.

you quickly develop a mucle memory of instantly hitting the mercy button as soon as you kill a thrall in the repetitive murmur grind and I've gone into mental auto pilot and insta mercyd a larva before I saw what it had 3 times in the last 2 days

Being able to see what the larva has is a huge step in improving the litch system, a MASSIVE step. but there needs to be some layer of protection against miss clicks on them for it to be foolproof. I just accidentally spawned a litch with tonkor which I already had and so far has been my least favorite kuva weapon. and I'm not happy about needing to waste hours of my life, and requiem charges on getting rid of them so I can get one I actually want. especially when I was farming litches trying to make the most of the affinity booster time I got from baro. It's a massive setback.

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One thing that would be nice to have in my opinion would be a gear item to summon converted Liches to the current mission (even if temporarily) instead of needing to die for them to come and assist.

Perhaps something like a renewable "Lich Assist Beacon" would be obtained upon converting a Lich, and you can pick a designated Lich (similarly to specter BP usage) to be spawned in upon usage in a mission.

I like my Lich buddy, but wish he would show up more often, or have the ability to call him into battle with me. I feel as though something like this would make Converting Liches feel more rewarding.

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This might have been suggested before but what if the kuva larvling was actually carrying the same weapon as your potential kuva lich, instead of just a karak, so players knew what gun they were going to get out of the lich in advance and make a decision from that?

Edit: 'A downed Kuva Larvling will now display an icon of the Kuva weapon that it’s birthed Kuva Lich will possess!' - That works too

Edited by RockPaperGibus
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I think i can just wrote this here (perhaps?):

Kuva nukor only has 200 round while it is a auto fire weapon with 10 fire rate. It is a bit low.It will be convenient to use if it has 400-600 rounds.

Edit:

I don't understand why u change the trajectory effect of this weapon.The original one on the nukor is beatiful and unique.And it is a very good feature of this game.

I can see u put lot effert on all weapons(such as reload animation)So why do u change it anyway? The current one is quite normal. Nothing special

Edited by yuzhuQ
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4 hours ago, yuzhuQ said:

I think i can just wrote this here (perhaps?):

The kuva nukor has not been buffed much compared to the other kuva ver. weapons. I can't say it is unacceptable , but ,the total ammo of the weapon is.

Kuva nukor only has 200 round while it is a auto fire weapon with 10 fire rate. It is really unacceptable.Let's look at a similar weapon: atomos.It has 350 rounds.Not to mention other kitguns who have very large ammo pools.

It will be convenient to use if it has 400-600 rounds.

 

You could just use Pistol Ammo Mutation. Now that it's an exilus mod and the fact that no other secondary exilus mod really benefits it, it should solve that problem. It doesn't mess up your build in any way so at most it should just cost you about 2 forma to fit it into your build if the exilus polarity doesn't already match the mod's.

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Can you please make it so that farming murmurs in a squad raises your lich's anger regardless if they control the planet or not? As it is now, lich hunting is not friendly towards squad play. The fact that I can unlock all 3 requiems but then have to run pointless missions just to get the lich angry to draw him out is very frustrating. What's worse is that the order is not revealed so I could end up getting the order wrong and have to mindlessly grind through more pointless missions just to try again even though I know the 3 requiems. To avoid this, I've had to specifically filter out people who don't have my planet under control and only make groups with people that do. This is very frustrating. As it is now, why would I farm murmurs in a group when it's better to do it solo?

Another annoyance is the spawn location of the lich during missions. More often than not, the lich spawns all the way across the map when you already finished the objective. You now have to backtrack all the way back almost to where the mission began just to fight your lich. This means I can't get the most out of the lich spawn because there are no grineer near by that it can thrall. That's a wasted 10 extra thralls and with the state kuva liches are in right now and how long, tedious, and mind-numbing murmur grinding is, every single thrall matters.Why can't the lich just spawn on top of you like the stalker does? Why does it need to spawn 300m across the map?

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