how to nerf the bramma without nerfing the damage

[Sharkgoblin]

1 charge speed is too fast for a bow of that dimensions. 0.40 is way too fast it should be at least 1 second, explain me why a huge  bow that shoot huge arrows has similar charge speed to the rakta cernos

2 buff projectile speed but disable explosion on impact with surfaces, only direct hit with enemies will cause explosions, now you have to actually aim to do damage instead of spamming like a monkey on cocaine

3 the knockback that replaced the self damage on explosive bows should not be countered in any way except for the cautious shot exilus mod

 now the bramma is fixed without touching any damage stat

 and dont even try to argue me that bramma is fair and shouldn't be changed because is not. its not even close to be fair

[KIREEK]

Changing the Bramma or other mechanics in the game will not make you able to keep up with other players, complaining will result in similar events as to those that happened with ember but you'll still fall behind.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Here's a way to nerf the bramma.... don't.  It doesn't need to be nerfed. 

[Loza03]

Just now, KIREEK said:

Changing the Bramma or other mechanics in the game will not make you able to keep up with other players, complaining will result in similar events as to those that happened with ember but you'll still fall behind.

And yet, it still should be nerfed because it's still leagues above everything else and has very little thought. The Ember rework was entirely justified for the same reason (she literally used to just turn on radial damage over time with no gameplay attached). I think the Bramma should be changed and I don't even play in squads that often. Nukes limit the gameplay experiences DE can provide, not just the moment-to-moment gameplay.

 

 

In response to OP, I feel like instead of point 2, I'd give it innate negative bow scavenger. Reduce the amount of ammo it can pick up from any source to, like, one or two, even with mutation. This achieves a similar effect without reducing  the 'feel' of the weapon as almost portable artillery, by greatly reducing its spam potential. It's still the strongest weapon you can bring, but goodness knows, you can't just use it without proper planning.

[kapn655321]

The Bramma should stay as is, until it's users find the game too boring and easy as a result of having it. ..which they will, inevitably.

[Sharkgoblin]

 

9 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

you'll still fall behind

with all that aoe? fall behind? lol

no the bramma is overpowered right now and needs nerfs

[KIREEK]

Just now, Sharkgoblin said:

 

with all that aoe? fall behind? lol

no the bramma is overpowered right now and needs nerfs

A change like that won't change anything, players skill, effort or results don't change overnight with a change to a single weapon.

It may happen, you might feel fufilled, i just find the entire thing awkward, based on what i see when i leave enemies behind, very few players actually engage enemies, in fact once you start doing sortie missions you'll realize that most players will skip enemies.

What you're telling me is that not only you kill enemies, but there is often other players with bramma killing enemies aswell, i'm not sure if you're playing in a different region or something, but having 2 players consistently killing enemies is incredibly rare, takes me hundreds of missions, thousands of hours to find pplayers who actually seek enemies to kill, and you find them often enough to make a topic about it.

Something isn't right, i believe that neither the bramma users are killing that much and neither are you.

[.Fire_Fly.]

why nerf fun?

[Sharkgoblin]

 

11 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

very few players actually engage enemies, in fact once you start doing sortie missions you'll realize that most players will skip enemies.

yes there are missions such as rescue, capture, spy, and pure defense where you dont need to kill enemies, i do skip enemies as well because killing them is not required

but what about missions that require killing such as exterminate, survival,  excavations etc? you dont engage enemies? and arbitrations? when the drone spawns? do you ignore that too?

you're nitpicking to defend the monstrosity that is bramma, after 5 formas and 10k kills you cant change my mind about it

it needs nerfs. such damage and aoe should have some sort of restriction.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sharkgoblin

[Xaero]

15 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

A change like that won't change anything, players skill, effort or results don't change overnight with a change to a single weapon.

What does it have to do with Bramma being broken though? It's a very powerful AoE weapon that's easy to use, which makes it a noticeably better option than other weaponry. This results in poor equipment diversity, which DE will notice at some point looking at usage stats. You may be happy if everyone uses the same stuff all the time, but DE definitely don't like it. So guess what happens next. The nerf is inevitable. Better give them some decent ideas so there are less chances for a weapon to become nerfed to the ground.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Xaero

[Drachnyn]

Most other guns being worthless trash does not make the bramma an op weapon. Has anyone ever used a melee weapon? Bramma is one of the few guns that can keep up with how strong melee weapons are. Single target weapons having almost no place in the game is a enemy design problem, not a bramma problem. What this weapon actually needs is to have almost no visual effects for other people.

[Sharkgoblin]

4 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Most other guns being worthless trash does not make the bramma an op weapon. Has anyone ever used a melee weapon? Bramma is one of the few guns that can keep up with how strong melee weapons are. Single target weapons having almost no place in the game is a enemy design problem, not a bramma problem. What this weapon actually needs is to have almost no visual effects for other people.

 "if a gun doesnt have huge damage  huge aoe and easily fixable downsights then its worthless trash"

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Sharkgoblin:

 "if a gun doesnt have huge damage  huge aoe and easily fixable downsights then its worthless trash"

I know you are trying to be snarky but yes, in a horde shooter an AoE weapon has an innate advantage over non AoE weapons. Which is part of the reason why melee weapons are so good. The way to "fix" this is to introduce new enemies that you want to deal with fast but also favor single target weapons. a very recent example (in theory) are the new glass enemies, other examples are nox and nullifiers as they both are fairly resistent against just firing a bramma blindly at them.

[Sharkgoblin]

10 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I know you are trying to be snarky but yes, in a horde shooter an AoE weapon has an innate advantage over non AoE weapons. Which is part of the reason why melee weapons are so good. The way to "fix" this is to introduce new enemies that you want to deal with fast but also favor single target weapons. a very recent example (in theory) are the new glass enemies, other examples are nox and nullifiers as they both are fairly resistent against just firing a bramma blindly at them.

  glass enemies are a joke, the aoe destroy the weakspots, nox is a non issue and introducing more nullifier type units just to counter a broken weapon is bullS#&$

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sharkgoblin

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Sharkgoblin:

  glass enemies are a joke, the aoe destroy the weakspots, nox is a non issue and introducing more nullyfing units just to counter a broken weapon is bullS#&$

 

The glass weakpoints do seem broken, that's why I said in theory. Nox shouldnt be fully immune to everything except their hitpoints but they do are pretty resitent to most melee, naturally as a non-boss enemy they shouldnt take an hour to kill but they do a good job at being heavies. I didnt ask for more nullifiers, they are just an example of an enemy that does counter blindly firing a bramma at them. On the contrary they benefit high firerate weapons and, atleast in corpus missions, make you think more about how you engage with them in terms of weapons.

I could see them introduce shield bubble enemies similar to nullifiers but without the ability nullification or have the arctic eximus bubble changed so it is resistent towards single shot weapons like the nullifier bubble.

[Sharkgoblin]

41 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I could see them introduce shield bubble enemies similar to nullifiers but without the ability nullification or have the arctic eximus bubble changed so it is resistent towards single shot weapons like the nullifier bubble.

that would make semi automatic weapons with no aoe and normal bows even less desirable

just to keep the bramma broken

 

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

I could see them introduce shield bubble enemies similar to nullifiers but without the ability nullification or have the arctic eximus bubble changed so it is resistent towards single shot weapons like the nullifier bubble.

Same here. They already added Elite Shield Lancer and his Shield is immune to any Punch through which makes AOE even more used.

[Drachnyn]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb Sharkgoblin:

that would make semi automatic weapons with no aoe and normal bows even less desirable

just to keep the bramma broken

Semi auto weapons like the latron already had no place as they were snipers but strictly worse, bramma has changed nothing for them. However that's why i said similar to nullifier shields: the little drone you can shoot does benefit weapons with high accuracy.

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Sharkgoblin said:

0.40 is way too fast it should be at least 1 second, explain me why a huge  bow that shoot huge arrows has similar charge speed to the rakta cernos

That is actually reasonable. Maybe 0.8 seconds.

Then again, I'd take a melee weapon over the Bramma any day of the week.

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

Can DE explain to me why Bramma firing big exploding arrows with cluster bombs take 0.4 second to charge

While Daikyuu firing one single arrow, that doesnt explode, takes 1 whole second?

[Cenec]

47 minutes ago, WOWESOMUCHDOGE said:

Can DE explain to me why Bramma firing big exploding arrows with cluster bombs take 0.4 second to charge

While Daikyuu firing one single arrow, that doesnt explode, takes 1 whole second?

 

To be fair, the Daikyu can use Split Flights and its headshot multiplier Amalgam mod. Daikyu probably stronger against single target still, but I would love a Bramma user to prove me otherwise to prove a point!

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

On 2020-05-14 at 6:54 AM, Sharkgoblin said:

1 charge speed is too fast for a bow of that dimensions. 0.40 is way too fast it should be at least 1 second, explain me why a huge  bow that shoot huge arrows has similar charge speed to the rakta cernos

2 buff projectile speed but disable explosion on impact with surfaces, only direct hit with enemies will cause explosions, now you have to actually aim to do damage instead of spamming like a monkey on cocaine

3 the knockback that replaced the self damage on explosive bows should not be countered in any way except for the cautious shot exilus mod

 now the bramma is fixed without touching any damage stat

 and dont even try to argue me that bramma is fair and shouldn't be changed because is not. its not even close to be fair

The charge speed is fine if you factor in the range in flight which is really low. Unless if you throw a projectile speed mod on or you get lucky enough to roll that stat on a riven. Even if you do the arrows still spread off in flight, almost like having heavy cal equipped.

Explosion on impact is the same for all weapons that deal blast damage. Shouldn't matter if it hits an enemy or not. 

As for the knockback counter, I'm not sure i know what you mean?

[SleepingVictors]

Wait why not just change it to something like the Tonkor, having a minimum range for it to explode, or like the corinth, making the explosion 100% secondary fire and it taking 5 rounds, or something of the sort. Seems like everyone against the nerfs just wants their damage to look higher than the other players so why not let them, but with more effort?

[AzureTerra]

Bring back self damage and watch people stop using it as they explode themselves too often.

[Marine027]

5 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Bring back self damage and watch people stop using it as they explode themselves too often.

Has nothing to do with it if allys or your pet jumps in the way, selfdamage wasa bad idea in the first place, guess while we at it we add friendly fire aswell always on or so. This will only hurt matchmaking even more, waiting to fire or spawm it in a big room has nothing to do with skill here.

The Bramma is OP with its base stats compared to other weapons, standing out or not it is ridiclious how a bow is far better in damage and explosive range then any of the launcher you eather need to charge or use manually.

9 hours ago, SleepingVictors said:

Wait why not just change it to something like the Tonkor, having a minimum range for it to explode, or like the corinth, making the explosion 100% secondary fire and it taking 5 rounds, or something of the sort. Seems like everyone against the nerfs just wants their damage to look higher than the other players so why not let them, but with more effort?

I not get honestly why this exists still with selfdamage gone, a safety feature you not need anymore. Explosives as a whole needa look at, it is a horde shooter yes but AoE clearly dominates way to much, same on Nuke Frames, give single shot weapons somthing like the syndicat procs i say but manually to use, charging it with shots and kills like the Battacor to give them a chance to keep up with AoE if needed.