DE wants a Zero Tolerance policy and that's going to destroy this game

[Letter13]

4 minutes ago, jakey1995abc said:

But constructive feedback would need to be removed as it is opinion based. They may view it as a negative comment (zero tolerance), whilst others agree with what is said as being constructive.

Negative feedback, when constructive, is encouraged. Negative feedback containing insults and profanity, however, is not constructive; it is self sabotaging in addition to being rule violating.

Contrary to what you may believe, it is entirely possible (and not altogether difficult) to voice negative opinions and feedback while remaining civil and constructive.

Trying to equate racist behavior and derogatory slurs to 'negative comments' is a great example of false equivalency. The zero tolerance policy will only apply in instances of discriminatory behavior based on race (racism), sex/gender (sexism), ethnicity, religion, etc.

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, jakey1995abc said:

But constructive feedback would need to be removed as it is opinion based. They may view it as a negative comment (zero tolerance), whilst others agree with what is said as being constructive.

Not really, cause the zero tolerance policy only applies to hate speech and racism, and both of those are well defined.

Spoiler

Hate speech is defined by Cambridge Dictionary as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation". Hate speech is "usually thought to include communications of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation".

I don't see how constructive criticism can be seen as hate speech unless it literally includes attacks towards the devs, at which point it fails to remain constructive.

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, jakey1995abc said:

But constructive feedback would need to be removed as it is opinion based. They may view it as a negative comment (zero tolerance), whilst others agree with what is said as being constructive.

You're mixing Dev bashing with giving feedback. 

There is a difference that a lot of people seem to be missing.

"Here is a list of things currently flawed/broken/lacking" is not bashing. 

"Your game sucks and you suck because these things are flawed/broken/lacking" is bashing under the guise of feedback. 

However, that isn't considered hate speech as it has nothing to do with ethnicity, skin color, religion or sexual orientation. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by MagPrime

[XzWasPzX]

I'm so tired of 2020, and we re not even in the half of it....

 

Everybody knows that saying "nezha is a trap" is a bannable offense and some still say it "for the lulz". How do you deal with this kind of people? Not easy at all. I think the Zero Tolerance expressed by DE in social media is just marketing, and I hope so because just the actual moderation creates problems from time to time. I would suggest to DE keep it that way, just marketing, which is perfectly fine and I have nothing against it. But not to create more and new problems only to surf a timegated wave. Its all fine, keep it, just that.

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, XzWasPzX said:

How do you deal with this kind of people?

7 day chat ban for spamming, is how.

[Sean]

Dev Bashing is an interesting one here on the forums.

With text, there can be a misunderstanding as tone can be lost, and so things can be read overly hostile when they were never intended to be, and sometimes those that read it in such a negative way may overreact and ban instead of even reaching out to the other user.

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, Letter13 dijo:

7 day chat ban for spamming, is how.

And not even always works. Some learn the lesson, others wont do it, ever. But you get some equilibrium with the actual system and its fine. "If something works, dont fix it"

[jakey1995abc]

4 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

I'm so tired of 2020, and we re not even in the half of it....

 

Everybody knows that saying "nezha is a trap" is a bannable offense and some still say it "for the lulz". How do you deal with this kind of people? Not easy at all. I think the Zero Tolerance expressed by DE in social media is just marketing, and I hope so because just the actual moderation creates problems from time to time. I would suggest to DE keep it that way, just marketing, which is perfectly fine and I have nothing against it. But not to create more and new problems only to surf a timegated wave. Its all fine, keep it, just that.

Bannable offense? If that is the case would you agree that you've now committed said offence and deserve to be punished? Zero-tolerance don't forget...

[XzWasPzX]

Justo ahora, jakey1995abc dijo:

Bannable offense? If that is the case would you agree that you've now committed said offence and deserve to be punished? Zero-tolerance don't forget...

I just put the example, if someone thinks I did a bannable offense, go ahead, I dont care, i know the transgender "world" very close to know Im not being transphobic at all. I'd hate me for doing something like that.

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

The only thing a chat bot has shown to effectively stop is people playing...whether intentional or not.

That is my point.

I want the 'draconian' chat-bots to drive away these players.

I won't mince words here, not trying to dance to anyone elses tune here.

Be they simply immature or just jerks, I want for the games companies to come down so hard on this the gaming community screams.

 

If a player thinks it is in any way a positive move to put hate speech in a global channel in a game, I want that player to be hit so harshly that they turn away from gaming entirely.

 

I hate censorship, but this is not a government ruling over a populus, it's just a game company making sure jerks are not welcome.

Totally think there are only two options open to game companies.

Either give us as players the tools to ostracize these hateful people, total ignores, not just chat, put someone on ignore and they are never even seen in common areas or allowed to group at all, etc., that level of ignore.

Or, invoke humans and AI to drive the players off of the platform. Companies, IMO, have a right to keep their services free of people they don't want to serve and this is a good reason.

 

It's a game set in a virtual world and personally I have no qualms with insuring that remains the case, vs allowing game chats to resemble Twitter.

[Zahnrad]

8 hours ago, LascarCapable said:

There's a whole history to that whole meme that lead DE to literally hardcode an instant 7 days ban into kickbot for this one. I don't think I'm allowed to bring back the whole story behind it, but consider that the word "trap" is often considered as a slur to designate male to female transpeople. I'm afraid it's all I can say. If it's a slur, it probably needs to not be said to begin with.

It still sucks to see people tricking new players into saying these two words together though.

I can't exactly ask you to explain upon it. I just wanted to say I've always seen the trap meme as a positive meme rather than a negative one. To me, it isn't a slur. It definitely can be used as one, but for me my definition is more akin to someone who crossdresses. Someone merely wanting to feel like the opposite gender and doing a very convincing job of it without wanting the surgery. I'm not on the boat of wanting to be the other gender, but I do find traps to be cute. Any kind of surgery scares me immensely so i can understand the desire of not wanting to transition fully. Sometimes the chat bans feel more discriminatory against them. Some people prefer to identify as traps rather than trans and I don't see anything wrong with that. It would be like saying gay is a slur because some people use it as one, while others identify as gay.

There is a large amount of memery regarding trap and traps but from what I've seen the meme has encouraged a lot of people into feeling less ashamed about it and more open regarding it.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zahnny
typo fix. it's always a typo fix.

[Prexades]

In the last few years on many gaming forums, websites, blogs, social media, video comments seemed to have competion on who could make the edgiest comment. I am so tired of it, that I am okay with zero tolerance of this stuff.

[Zahnrad]

8 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

No. There is a lot of confusion about freedom of speech.

As @LascarCapable has said, Freedom of Speech is not Freedom from Consequences.

Freedom of speech exists to prevent the Government from legally punishing you for the things you say. That however only applies to the Government.

You are still unprotected from Social Consequences, which essentially means that Society can judge and punish you for the things you say but the Government and those who work directly as branches of it, such as Police are unable to. It is important to note that there are exceptions, for example you cannot shout fire in a theatre or anything else that can directly cause a public panic. (Unless of course there is a fire in a theatre or etc.)

Note: Everything under this is my opinion and is not anything official for Freedom of Speech.

If there was anything I would ask for regarding freedom of speech to change it would be more protections for those with Jobs. I've never been a fan of public lynchings and Cancel Culture is one of them. I dislike how an angry mob can make someone lose their job, even if they are justified and even if they feel right I'd rather we tackled those on facts, rather than outrage. It's what our Court System is built on.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zahnny
more typo fixes

[Zimzala]

3 minutes ago, Prexades said:

In the last few years on many gaming forums, websites, blogs, social media, video comments seemed to have competion on who could make the edgiest comment. I am so tired of it, that I am okay with zero tolerance of this stuff.

Gamers like to push boundries and 'beat' the system.

Some of them, I know, are simply too uninformed to understand what they say is hurtful.

I am not ever ever going to advocate the same rules I do for forums as the games themselves.

IMO, if you post that stuff in the public forums, you are just letting the world know you are a jerk so we can avoid you and ostracize you, IMO.

[LascarCapable]

@Ailia_Grimm Your post was removed because it was naming and shaming. This other post got removed for the same reason.

Sorry for the late reply, I am heavily multitasking.

[Cerikus]

I understand that DE wants to do something, but I am affraid that this is very unwise approach.
Chatbots don't work reliably.
We all know the problems DE had/has? with chat moderators and partner program.
This is not going to solve anything.

(FYI I never got banned in chat, so I think my opinion is as unbiased as possible on this)

DE is a game company. Warframe is a game. How about they focus on making the game. That's why people are actually here.
I literally don't care about the chat moderation and I think most people don't as well.

I HATE poeple that are toxic, racist, or otherwise hateful, but if I would be a target, I would just block them.

The world is a hateful and brutal place. It has always been that way and it will never stop being that way, because people are animals at the end of the day and animals are brutal.

Trying to "protect" us from mean words is ridiculus.

If you can't survive someone being mean on the internet, don't even go outside.

I am from a country where our prime minister was able to buy most of our media and is manipulating the country for his own profit. People wanted to protest him next week (again), but he used COVID as an excuse to ban the protest. 

And people here are discussing banning people in game chat for being offensive.

Grow up.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Cerikus
fixed a typo

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Alright then:

Which most likely won't happen

People are still getting banned over nothing in game chat, & "a certain warframe partner" is still allowed to say what he wants (including calling others b*tches & c*nts) on twitch & social medias

How can DE prevent anyone on social media from saying anything?

I agree, if a partner is a jerk then that partner should lose that status.

This is my point though, on the other platforms, that's a different matter altogether from the actual game, IMO.

[MagPrime]

8 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

 

Note: Everything under this is my opinion and is not anything official for Freedom of Speech.

If there was anything I would ask for regarding freedom of speech to change it would be more protections for those with Jobs. I've never been a fan of public lynchings and Cancel Culture is one of them. I dislike how an angry mob can make someone lose their job, even if they are justified and even if they feel right I'd rather we tackled those on facts, rather than outrage. It's what our Court System is built on.

Mob justice is something I will never support as it bypasses the legal system and people who are actually innocent will get hurt. 

Using a  structured legal system is supposed to prevent that.  When it stops doing that, it needs to be restructured, not bypassed in favor of mob justice. 

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Follordark said:

What is the point of this I never ever saw anything racist or sexist in chat (region,recruithing ,clan, trade) in all my missions and time spent  so why implement this and for it to serve no purpose but to get innocent banned for no reason

Your broad assuption of innocence is simply your anecdotal experience, not the full picture, why make decisions with only part of the data?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Zimzala

[Hypernaut1]

18 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I can't exactly ask you to explain upon it. I just wanted to say I've always seen the trap meme as a positive meme rather than a negative one. To me, it isn't a slur. It definitely can be used as one, but for me my definition is more akin to someone who crossdresses. Someone merely wanting to feel like the opposite gender and doing a very convincing job of it without wanting the surgery. I'm not on the boat of wanting to be the other gender, but I do find traps to be cute. Any kind of surgery scares me immensely so i can understand the desire of not wanting to transition fully. Sometimes the chat bans feel more discriminatory against them. Some people prefer to identify as traps rather than trans and I don't see anything wrong with that. It would be like saying gay is a slur because some people use it as one, while others identify as gay.

There is a large amount of memery regarding trap and traps but from what I've seen the meme has encouraged a lot of people into feeling less ashamed about it and more open regarding it.

Ok, to you it may seem innocent. But then there are people who ruin it for people like you by using it in offensive ways. 

Honestly, you guys should blame those jerks and not DE. There would be no reason for moderation if racist, bigots and edgelords didn't try to make public areas into a cesspool. 

If DE didn't ban "trap", then certainly it would've become an abused word. That's NOT DEs fault. Same goes for other potentially hateful speech. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

Well it's a game and not a real life platform. If you do something stupid and get perma banned for doing it despite warnings, it's not as if your life is gonna get affected in any way. 

[Rawbeard]

8 hours ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Peace and love, be kind to one another, and let's be a good community, yeah? Yeah.

you don't got to say that after ranting against kindness.

do you think we can not see you? you are blowing those dogwhistles SO HARD, even if we can't hear it, we see your red face giving its all. "but what about the innocents?" yeah, innocent people don't say "all lives matter". literally 100% of those who say it are racist. no normal human being hears "black lives matter" and thinks "but what about my white life? why are these black racists racist against my poor whiteness?!" and then tries to whatabout the issue.

tolerance of intolerance does not create more tolerance.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Rawbeard

[MagPrime]

Just now, Zimzala said:

How can DE prevent anyone on social media from saying anything?

I agree, if a partner is a jerk then that partner should lose that status.

This is my point though, on the other platforms, that's a different matter altogether from the actual game, IMO.

Yes and no.  The partner represents the game to the public, how they behave is a small reflection in the game, community and developers.  

Even if they are on a different platform DE has no admin powers on, they can still drop someone for violating community standards while representing the community. Which is exactly what's happening with the partner in question.  Their behavior to the community, while in some way representing the community, is still subject to the community rules.

[XzWasPzX]

hace 1 minuto, Ailia_Grimm dijo:

Alright then:

Which most likely won't happen

People are still getting banned over nothing in game chat, & "a certain warframe partner" is still allowed to say what he wants (including calling others b*tches & c*nts) on twitch & social medias

That guy is a terrible person, not for being gay (I'm even part of a lgtb universitary association), but for being... a silly guy. There's silly people, that also might be gay or not, thats secondary.

Message for "that guy": Dude, you have a lot to change in yourself, do yourself a favor and make it happen as soon as possible, stop embarrassing so many people.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, XzWasPzX said:

That guy is a terrible person, not for being gay (I'm even part of a lgtb universitary association), but for being... a silly guy. There's silly people, that also might be gay or not, thats secondary.

Message for "that guy": Dude, you have a lot to change in yourself, do yourself a favor and make it happen as soon as possible, stop embarrassing so many people.

I wish I could post the meme "being young, gay and mean is not a personality"