Why does everyone NOT want better rewards for Hard Mode.

[markus230]

I think a perfect reward for SP would be what Rivens should have been, mods (or something that has it's own dedicated slot) that SET weapon base stats to make it up to par with high-tier weapons. You like Dera a lot? Well, you can go on SP and drop a mod that makes it viable. This way I think casuals wouldn't be crying about being "forced", and vets would have a lot of new toys to play with.

[BernieBlack]

2 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I think a perfect reward for SP would be what Rivens should have been, mods (or something that has it's own dedicated slot) that SET weapon base stats to make it up to par with high-tier weapons. You like Dera a lot? Well, you can go on SP and drop a mod that makes it viable. This way I think casuals wouldn't be crying about being "forced", and vets would have a lot of new toys to play with.

Thats a great idea.

[BornWithTeeth]

I just want the male Bishamo armour set to look as nice as the female set. That’s all.

 

The existing model is a bit rubbish, the female armour is superior. Lose the giant thighpads of doom, streamline it a bit.

[markus230]

2 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

Thats a great idea.

Only issue is, judging by what was added so far as rewards for SP (a bunch of recycled assets), DE wouldn't bother with figuring out what stats the weapon should get. They could add those in batches (like Rivens were added bit by bit). But still, I don't think DE is willing to spend much dev time on SP

[Felsagger]

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not many games succeed at being challenging.

Horizon Zero Dawn. 

God of War IV

Demon Souls

Blood Borne

Dark Souls 1, 2, 3

Sekiro

There are a dozen of games that succeeded being challenging. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Most of the games claimed to have great challenge are just memory based in the end.

Play the game first. Obviously you do not know how it works. 

Dark Souls 3 is not only memory based. It's about reaction skill and decision making. The patterns on these bosses has variations. They have attack patterns but they performs combos that are not based on memory. They are based on quick reaction of the player to parry them if possible. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They seem challenging at first but when you learn the fights they are as simple as anything.

Play the game first. Obviously you do not know how it works. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

WF isnt much different, it starts out more "challenging" and then it dies off the more gear we get. We in essence have challenge in the eidolons, but when the fights are inprinted in out head we dont need to think about what we do, much like raids in WoW.

Are you sure?

 

Boss fights are way different. Bosses in Dark Souls have threatening attacks unlike Warframe. Yes, pattern can be learned doing flawless confrontations however that requires skill. In War Frame that's not the case. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The only games I've found challenging are those I've faced other players in. I'm not sure which games you play if you find challenge.

Any PVP by definition is challenging. We are not talking about these here. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

People always seem to think that harder, difficulty and challenge are synonymous in games, they arent.

Who thinks this? Who? Name examples. 

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

What these types of games need would be harder or more difficult content, because challenging is something they'll never become. Steel Path is harder and more difficult, the old proven braindead frames dont work so well to faceroll with in there, we face far higher mob density in endless etc. a massive amount of extra ground clutter hazzards and higher damage output from the mobs.

But it remains a game for casual. Once the meta and style is devised the game returns to brain dead gameplay. Even expert players who knows Dark Souls by hand can't commit mistakes. War Frame is way too forgiving. 

[Oreades]

What would they be willing to give us that we don't already have?

Can't say I'm in need of recource increases. Bout the only thing I want is the RNG currency to not either be painfully rare or require me to spend hours in endless missions. Because half the point of "hard" mode was so you don't need to spend hours to get to the "good stuff" 

Yeah you no longer need to spend an hour plus to get to reasonable levels but now you need to spend that time before the teshinbux start dropping. Kinda six of one half dozen of the other if you ask me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Yes I'm driven by rewards, because its a #*!%ing LOOTER. Its literally the existence for this genre and the popularity for games like Borderlands, Destiny and Diablo. Guess what, you can want the challenge AND the rewards, they're not mutually exclusive.

No they're not mutually exclusive, but you literally started your post, by saying that you are driven by the rewards.

That means that you would happily play tic-tac-toe repeatedly if you think you are going to get a good reward. Wouldn't you? 

So jumping on the bandwagon and pretending to actually want some over the top challenge is a bit of a waste of your time and effort. (And frankly, based on what you already posted, would be a lot less convincing than one might expect.) 

17 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

In Destiny

Sorry. I don't play that. Next. 

18 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Additional challenge "for its own sake" only gets a game mode so far. Go look at Anthem if you need an example.

Yeah, don't play that either. Next. 

18 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Every game with a loot aspect has gotten this right before, but for some reason the playerbase thinks this is rocket science.

LOL. No. You just said that another game got it wrong in the previous paragraph. You're just being silly and stamping your little foot, making nonsense claims about "every other kid in the world has this cool toy". That's not a very good way of doing things. Try again. 

22 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

You think people will cry to DE to nerf SP? Don't listen to them.

Inevitable. People always do. 

22 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

You think you'll feel obligated to play the mode for the cosmetics? That's the point. If you don't want to do the mode, then you don't deserve the cosmetics.

Not really. What I really want is the baseball shirt cut that is on display in the cave. The one in game is subtly different and I dislike it. I'll probably get around to collecting them at some point though. 

25 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

You think the playerbase will be split between new players and SP players? GOOD! How many noobs are carried in this game by map nuking warframes and cry for a nerf? Look how useless ember became for a while.

I don't recall Ember being useless. I remember the change and adapting to it. 

 

27 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I understand its a bit early to judge though. I'm just afraid if this doesn't get some attention DE will abandon this mode like every other mode they drop and we'll be left with another Lunaro/content island. 

Early? You're a couple of months too late to be considered early for bashing this content. There are always people trashing content, even before the release. If you want to be a real edgelord and ahead of the pack, you are going to need to trash what's slated for after the Duviri Paradox, before it's announced. Until you get to that point, you're just posing. 

[markus230]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not many games succeed at being challenging. Most of the games claimed to have great challenge are just memory based in the end. They seem challenging at first but when you learn the fights they are as simple as anything.

Not long ago I've played Doom Eternal on Nightmare, it's very challenging, especially the optional arenas, it's hard because you have to take care of many resources at once (armor, health, ammo), you need to disable enemy weak spots which requires good aim, you need to dodge attacks and use right weapons in the right situations.

Sure, you can master every game, but that doesn't mean the game is easy. Doom in this example requires you to become more skilled at the game, other games might require you to develop better tactics and so on.

Warframe is easy because there is almost no skill required (best weapons in the game don't require you to aim at all, using skill requiring weapons, like sniper rifles most of the time is sub par) and there is little to learn. Sure, if you want to do a 4 hour solo run of SP Mot, you need to know what you're doing, but you can slap a sub par mods on a sub par weapon and you will still be able to beat most of the game's content without issues. Most of the game doesn't require you to be good at anything, that's why Warframe isn't challenging.

SP is only hard if you gimp yourself. You can cheese pretty much everything. Defense missions are laughable with Irradiating Loki, and Interception missions can be played afk, just use Limbo and plop down a cataclysm on the tower that the AI is fixated on, refresh cataclysm once a minute and you won.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

18 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I just want the male Bishamo armour set to look as nice as the female set. That’s all.

 

The existing model is a bit rubbish, the female armour is superior. Lose the giant thighpads of doom, streamline it a bit.

The belt/sash from the Dax set being a separate gear piece would be a fine reward for me. The female one would look great with my prime gear.

[Lutesque]

23 minutes ago, markus230 said:

SP is only hard if you gimp yourself. You can cheese pretty much everything. Defense missions are laughable with Irradiating Loki, and Interception missions can be played afk, just use Limbo and plop down a cataclysm on the tower that the AI is fixated on, refresh cataclysm once a minute and you won.

Yeah about that... what do you do when S#&$ Hits the Fan and Enemies appear at other Towers ?

[Aldain]

What possible thing could they give other than more power creep?

Because more often than not, that's all people seem to want these days.

[BernieBlack]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No they're not mutually exclusive, but you literally started your post, by saying that you are driven by the rewards.

That means that you would happily play tic-tac-toe repeatedly if you think you are going to get a good reward. Wouldn't you? 

So jumping on the bandwagon and pretending to actually want some over the top challenge is a bit of a waste of your time and effort. (And frankly, based on what you already posted, would be a lot less convincing than one might expect.) 

Sorry. I don't play that. Next. 

Yeah, don't play that either. Next. 

LOL. No. You just said that another game got it wrong in the previous paragraph. You're just being silly and stamping your little foot, making nonsense claims about "every other kid in the world has this cool toy". That's not a very good way of doing things. Try again. 

Inevitable. People always do. 

Not really. What I really want is the baseball shirt cut that is on display in the cave. The one in game is subtly different and I dislike it. I'll probably get around to collecting them at some point though. 

I don't recall Ember being useless. I remember the change and adapting to it. 

 

Early? You're a couple of months too late to be considered early for bashing this content. There are always people trashing content, even before the release. If you want to be a real edgelord and ahead of the pack, you are going to need to trash what's slated for after the Duviri Paradox, before it's announced. Until you get to that point, you're just posing. 

At this point you're just paraphrasing what I said and nitpicking to prove your own point while avoiding the arguments that I made that counter your own points. It isn't edgy or unreasonable to expect better rewards for harder content. Its what players have been conditioned to expect, and it's a reasonable expectation.

Apparently you're just so far up DEs ass you'd rather grind it out in some repeat mission where everything dies in a single hit and all that's expected from you is to press 4 so you can stay safe in your little power fantasy bubble and never challenge yourself. 

Or am I just making assumptions? Huh, kind of sucks when people do that, doesn't it?

[BernieBlack]

4 minutes ago, Aldain said:

What possible thing could they give other than more power creep?

Because more often than not, that's all people seem to want these days.

Weapon skins, cosmetics, emblems, emotes that aren't copy pasted. Players loose their S#&$ in other games over some emotes. Fashion frame is endgame isnt it? Why didn't they just embrace that. I just expected more than a single operator suit with remade assets and one decent ephemera that's tied more to farming hour long missions than it is the actual mode itself.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

23 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I firmly Disagree... Warframe just makes you feel dumb because:

1) its constantly hiding information 

2) Changing the rules for no reason

3) Use one time gimmicks that just wind up getting thrown away.

No, I know now that I was going about it wrong. I should have paid attention to what was going on, and paid attention to the experiences of the earlier parts of the quest. 

I was weak and got my butt handed to me a couple of times, instead of keeping my head, I became overly focused on finding somewhere safe that was as far away from him as possible. I got that and then became focused on dealing damage from my safe place, while still keeping a safe distance. When the time came for the final step, I assigned priority to those same two objectives. We both know why that won't work, but I didn't then. I know all of this now, but during the action, I just couldn't figure it out. 

Could they have held my hand? Yeah. Could they have waited for me to fail 5 times and say "hey dummy do x" in a very stern tone? Yeah. Could they have asked me if I wanted to just skip that stage and move on? Yeah. But I'm glad they didn't. 

49 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

For example... Why does Umbra see and attack me in void mode ? In literally ever other situation (except Harrow's Quest) Void Mode works consistently but for some asinine reason its 2 main Features are disabled without any explanations. 

You think that's a big deal. I am still freaked out by the fact that Konzu knows it's me no matter what Warframe I'm using. He still KNOWS it's me!

I don't care if Umbra gets a couple of lucky shots in. It's probably due to the modified bolt or something. But Konzu? Every. Single. Time. 

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

What possible thing could they give other than more power creep?

Because more often than not, that's all people seem to want these days.

MORE POWAAAAA !!!

3 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Apparently you're just so far up DEs ass you'd rather grind it out in some repeat mission where everything dies in a single hit and all that's expected from you is to press 4 so you can stay safe in your little power fantasy bubble and never challenge yourself. 

To be fair... I have access to better challenges in other games... so... yeah... nothing wrong with getting my Power Fix here. 😛

4 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Or am I just making assumptions? Huh, kind of sucks when people do that, doesn't it?

Indeed it does... but you get used to it... sort of....

[BahamutKaiser]

Games breed sycophants and white knights, it's unfortunate that many of the ppl most passionate about a games are unable to rationally evaluate them.

Then we have ppl that agree that the mode needs improvement, but still respond with despondency, because they don't feel the developers should care about anything if they don't respond about the subject they champion. 

It's a lot of mindless irrationality. None of the subtractors can even make an arguement for withholding natural rewards, they just dogmatically chant that nothing was promised. 

In the end, DE has to doctor their cheat detection, because their game can't handle the measures required of players to overcome how poor the reward structure in Steel Path is. So subtractors can oppose all they want, they only harm themselves in the long run. 

[BernieBlack]

5 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

MORE POWAAAAA !!!

To be fair... I have access to better challenges in other games... so... yeah... nothing wrong with getting my Power Fix here. 😛

Indeed it does... but you get used to it... sort of....

I... i wasn't quoting you?

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, I know now that I was going about it wrong. I should have paid attention to what was going on, and paid attention to the experiences of the earlier parts of the quest. 

I was weak and got my butt handed to me a couple of times, instead of keeping my head, I became overly focused on finding somewhere safe that was as far away from him as possible. I got that and then became focused on dealing damage from my safe place, while still keeping a safe distance. When the time came for the final step, I assigned priority to those same two objectives. We both know why that won't work, but I didn't then. I know all of this now, but during the action, I just couldn't figure it out. 

Could they have held my hand? Yeah. Could they have waited for me to fail 5 times and say "hey dummy do x" in a very stern tone? Yeah. Could they have asked me if I wanted to just skip that stage and move on? Yeah. But I'm glad they didn't. 

Sorry, Tenno but Im going to have to pull Rank on you and declare its DE's fault. If you have a problem with that I suggest to take it up with Space Mom... if you can find her.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You think that's a big deal. I am still freaked out by the fact that Konzu knows it's me no matter what Warframe I'm using. He still KNOWS it's me!

I don't care if Umbra gets a couple of lucky shots in. It's probably due to the modified bolt or something. But Konzu? Every. Single. Time. 

He probably recognizes you by your Clan Emblem and and Overall Fashion Sense. 😛

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

At this point you're just paraphrasing what I said and nitpicking to prove your own point while avoiding the arguments that I made that counter your own points. It isn't edgy or unreasonable to expect better rewards for harder content. Its what players have been conditioned to expect, and it's a reasonable expectation.

You already said that you are in it for the rewards. You still haven't praised the challenge as far as I know. That means that all you really want is the rewards. So go ahead and sing that song to someone else. It really isn't very believable. 

 

9 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Apparently you're just so far up DEs ass you'd rather grind it out in some repeat mission where everything dies in a single hit and all that's expected from you is to press 4 so you can stay safe in your little power fantasy bubble and never challenge yourself. 

Really? That's the best you can come up with? I pointed out that you are so desperate for rewards that you would play tic-tac-toe for hours on end and you couldn't even be bothered to come up with a creative response? That's pretty sad man. 

No wonder you're looking for any excuse to bow out of SP. 

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I... i wasn't quoting you?

I was bored so I invited myself to the Conversation... 

Seriously though... why would anyone expect a challenge at this point... the game is too far gone. I get my challenge from Fighting Games.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

.He probably recognizes you by your Clan Emblem and and Overall Fashion Sense. 

😛

 

Jokes on you. I don't have either. 

[Lutesque]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Jokes on you. I don't have either. 

I don't know... maybe he saw your Orbiter and knows its you regardless of what Warframe falls out of it...

Maybe Ordis is ratting you out.... i would imagine you have to state your ID and Intentions upon entering Cetus Air Space and so Konzu knows exactly whos showing up.

[IspanoLFW]

29 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah about that... what do you do when S#&$ Hits the Fan and Enemies appear at other Towers ?

Or a nully sneaks up and destroys your bubble and now the horde of enemies are shooting you.

[BernieBlack]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You already said that you are in it for the rewards. You still haven't praised the challenge as far as I know. That means that all you really want is the rewards. So go ahead and sing that song to someone else. It really isn't very believable. 

 

Really? That's the best you can come up with? I pointed out that you are so desperate for rewards that you would play tic-tac-toe for hours on end and you couldn't even be bothered to come up with a creative response? That's pretty sad man. 

No wonder you're looking for any excuse to bow out of SP. 

Again, you're just reading what you want to read because I've made the point that I'm in it for both and those 2 aren't mutually exclusive. And I'm not going to sit here and respond to every childish sentence you write. My argument is that the "tic tac toe" missions in this game are more rewarding than SP. 

I haven't "bowed out," there isn't much to bow out of this mode isnt exactly sweat inducing. I came back to this game specifically for steel path, got to the Neptune including the derelict and Kuva fortress, realized I had hit the peak of the challenge and there was #*!% all to work towards. So I dropped the game again and hoped DE would address the issue until I came to the forums and saw people were actually arguing against better rewards. 

But I'm sure you'll be happy when in 2 more weeks this mode is dead and everyone's back in the simulator.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I don't know... maybe he saw your Orbiter and knows its you regardless of what Warframe falls out of it...

Maybe Ordis is ratting you out.... i would imagine you have to state your ID and Intentions upon entering Cetus Air Space and so Konzu knows exactly whos showing up.

If the node were empty, I could buy that, but most of the time I can't even see him and as I step up he's figured out who I am. 

Others in the market do something similar but not to that extent. 

It's uncanny, I tell you.