Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[selig_fay]

12 minutes ago, wizardeiges said:

the extra ult speed of titania - making her lack luster kit into the ultimate speed frame!

Unfortunately, this is physically impossible and will only cause a lot of problems. Razorwing is still quite buggy at the moment. I think you will get either spellbind or Lantern. But I think that if it is spellbind, then nezha 1 will be better.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Frost was confirmed to get ice wave though, so yeah.

Correcting that.

[FB-22]

They specifically said in the stream "a signature ability like Nekros's desecrate" (paraphrased slightly). I think a lot of you are looking too deeply into this specific word choice of "signature" and taking that definitionally when you have an example given to show that they most likely mean the frames most-used, most on-meta ability/abilities and that "signature" was just the label they happened to use to describe that status. Speaking of Nekros, it will be a nice power boost to him to be able to replace soul punch with anything else and be more than a desecrate bot.

I'm curious to see how it will work with Equinox, Hildryn, Grendel, Baruuk, and other frames which have unique systems or energy sources that don't have an obvious translation onto other frames. Also since you copy the ability onto specific config slots, what will happen if you buy an additional config slot for that frame?

[selig_fay]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)SirMilkfiend said:

You can limit it to a single configuration and it was never said you couldn't overwrite the change. Minor ability changes seem necessary for example all the abilities that interact with a passive like Nidus, Equinox day and night form, or a mechanic change for Limbo's Banish where the host warframe holds the ability to send themselves into the rift.

I think for example, for Limbo, we'll get it 1, which will work differently, sending us to the Rift too. Again, see how this works on reiljeck tactics. Some abilities work differently than on a frame.

Most likely, if the ability is available in reiljeck tactics, you will not be able to get it. I think so. Thus, you can allocate 1 ability on some frames. I'm sure Titania will only give spellbind, since razorwing is an ultimate, and the Tribute is difficult to transfer. Lantern is available in reiljeck tactic.

[Blexander]

Let's get to the point fast, without any long preface.

The system is shallow. It has not been thought through very well. I'll explain point by point:

1. What counts as a signature ability?

Every frames has a kit specifically designed to be unique to the frame. No 2 abilities function the exact same way, nor can they replace each other indiscriminately. In short, every ability a frame has is signature to it because it's fundamentally different in design, regardless if the usage of the ability has a counterpart in another frames kit.

2. Which abilities can be used?

They idea of swapping abilities you don't like with ones function better may seem appealing, until you start thinking about frames whose kits are so interlinked, whether with their passive or with each other, that they just become unusable. I'll put forward 2 main examples: Gauss and Nidus. With Gauss a notable part of his kit becomes unusable without his passive, such as 2 and half of 3. With Nidus, you'd have access to 1 and 2, which may sound appealing until you realized that his one would be nearly useless damage wise, because of how much it's reliant on passive stacks.

3. Warframe homogeny and the meta

It's more than evident that some abilities are just much stronger than other on varying frames. A lot of frames have flaws and lack certain mechanics in an effort to not make them entirely self sufficient, and require an appropriate team composition to function at 100%. This would open up a possibility for every frame lacking in, let's say survivability, all frames lacking it could just get Iron skin or some form of self healing, which then goes back on the point of which abilities are considered to be signature, and it could easily turn out that not a lot of good abilities would be available for infusion.

4. The end of reworks, maybe?

This may sound like heavy conspiracy talk, but does this not seem like DE pulling a YouTube rewind, telling us "you're better at reworks than we, so you can change whatever is bad on X frame yourself". This just seems like DE's unwillingness to fix bad, outdated or even nonexistent kits, because they can let us do ourselves.

 

Closing words:

Very much not a fan of this system. I don't like hearing the cop out "it's gonna be fun" when the idea of fun is sacrificing uniqueness of frames and the potential of some of them getting reworked in exchange for more powercreep.

[wizardeiges]

9 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Unfortunately, this is physically impossible and will only cause a lot of problems. Razorwing is still quite buggy at the moment. I think you will get either spellbind or Lantern. But I think that if it is spellbind, then nezha 1 will be better.

I meant using titania as a base so you can use her ult and just put speed buffs in the other 3 slots.
Gotta go fast! it still takes around 8 seconds to hit the barrier on the other side of orb vallis as titania.

[Makunogo]

is this system out yet? i find it hard to criticize something we have not even tried yet. (i missed tennocon and have not been on recently)

I think should wait until there is actual gameplay/patch notes.  

[wizardeiges]

10 minutes ago, (NSW)zook-pl said:

I will say, it’s highly probable (in my eyes) they add tier 2, tier 3 ability swap after sacrificing 2th and 3th frame. If this idea hooks.

Hell yeah,i'll sacrifice 1 of every base frame in the game to get such a ability!

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, wizardeiges said:

I meant using titania as a base so you can use her ult and just put speed buffs in the other 3 slots.

Gotta go fast! it still takes around 8 seconds to hit the barrier on the other side of orb vallis as titania.

Lol. Trust me, you don't need that much speed. Most of the time I get stuck in the wall when I give +200% and press shift.

[Magus_Tahir]

15 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Ripline.

I was actually thinking Revenats 1. Enthrall. 16+ Unstoppable Army.

[wizardeiges]

1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

Lol. Trust me, you don't need that much speed. Most of the time I get stuck in the wall when I give +200% and press shift.

I have a couple forma titania prime just for maximum speed. I want maximum-er speed though lol.
Tilting a direction for a brief second and hitting a wall instantly on the other end of the room isn't fast enough.
For the sake of fun I hope they let all of the speed abilities be transferable 

[Blexander]

Just now, Makunogo said:

is this system out yet? i find it hard to criticize something we have not even tried yet. (i missed tennocon and have not been on recently)

I think should wait until there is actual gameplay/patch notes.  

It's not out yet. Coming on the 25th most likely. Still doesn't change how shallow it is from what they showcased, and remember, they'll ship what they showed.

[Aldain]

Just now, Magus_Tahir said:

I was actually thinking Revenats 1. Enthrall. 16+ Unstoppable Army.

I think that leans too far into the "signature" description, most of his kit is built around it.

Even though mixing it with Nekros' 4 would be cool, I don't see it happening.

On a more real non-troll suggestion Ash's Shuriken (assuming that's what he gives) would help because of the slash damage making more giblets to Desecrate.

[Pizzarugi]

3 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

is this system out yet? i find it hard to criticize something we have not even tried yet. (i missed tennocon and have not been on recently)

I think should wait until there is actual gameplay/patch notes.  

We can speculate and anticipate potential holes in things before they come out. Sometimes we might bring up oversights DE didn't consider so they can patch it before release.

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, wizardeiges said:

I have a couple forma titania prime just for maximum speed. I want maximum-er speed though lol.

Tilting a direction for a brief second and hitting a wall instantly on the other end of the room isn't fast enough.
For the sake of fun I hope they let all of the speed abilities be transferable

There are still standard abilities that you get for the level of feeding. I saw speedboost at 25%.

[Veridian]

Ah yes, the obligatory "everything DE does is bad" thread.

Is shallow the 1st insult you could think of?

The system itself could be op or useless.

If most abilities are like volt's shock, nobody will rush, if we get to put warding halo on mesas on the other hand...

[Magus_Tahir]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

I think that leans too far into the "signature" description, most of his kit is built around it.

Even though mixing it with Nekros' 4 would be cool, I don't see it happening.

On a more real non-troll suggestion Ash's Shuriken (assuming that's what he gives) would help because of the slash damage making more giblets to Desecrate.

I know. We know next to nothing, practically nothing, and absolutely nothing other than the few abilities that they have been revealed to be confirmed already. We do not know any criteria as to what they are using to select what abilities can be switched so wishful thinking is fine currently.

Know the amount of people on the forums that seem to have decided what abilities they're going to use already is a bit disconcerting. 

[selig_fay]

I'm more interested in which is more real, Trinity 1 or 2.

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

1. What counts as a signature ability?

 

Every frames has a kit specifically designed to be unique to the frame. No 2 abilities function the exact same way, nor can they replace each other indiscriminately. In short, every ability a frame has is signature to it because it's fundamentally different in design, regardless if the usage of the ability has a counterpart in another frames kit.

It's more like popular/meta abilities that make players use certain warframes just to use those. For example, Nekros is popular for loot piñata runs and then his tankabilty with shadows. Those two abilities would be "signature" ones from him. Basically any skill that you would use a warframe for, even if you don't like it, just because it's useful.
But I wonder what skill we would get from Khora, because all her abilities are good/signature, the lest popular being Venari I suppose, but it would be weird to give Venari to other warframes because that's part of her passive as well.

[GSDAkatsuki]

I'm thinking the abilities will be the worst/least used ability of the remaining 3 of each warframe. So meta will be about which useless ability you want to trade out for a more useful yet still useless ability on another Warframe (Ex, fireball Ember, Party box Mirage, iceball frost, all the dash type abilities). Would be surprised if most people didn't use the system as the Helminth might just flat out give a better buff ability that you could use instead. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Magus_Tahir said:

We do not know any criteria as to what they are using to select what abilities can be switched so wishful thinking is fine currently.

Honestly the only one I am holding out hope for is Protea's Fan Grenade.

Because I want that to replace Vauban's Tesla Nervos so badly.

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

It's more like popular/meta abilities that make players use certain warframes just to use those. For example, Nekros is popular for loot piñata runs and then his tankabilty with shadows. Those two abilities would be "signature" ones from him. Basically any skill that you would use a warframe for, even if you don't like it, just because it's useful.
But I wonder what skill we would get from Khora, because all her abilities are good/signature, the lest popular being Venari I suppose, but it would be weird to give Venari to other warframes because that's part of her passive as well.

To add a bit more info on nekros, Terrify is the only fear in the game, and nekros has it, so you could say that's also a signature ability. Soul punch is basically Banshee's 1 when augmentless. But you see my point. The pool of abilities is very narrow. 

[m3stuart]

What will they use for Grendel tho? Literally every single ability it's connected to hes First ability that it's iconic to him. And to use hes Passive/2/3/4 you need the first ability. GIven no ultimates are allowed, what they will use for him.

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

11 hours ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Basically they're allowing us to use a warframe ability in a certain frame in the expense of sacrificing that warframe you get the ability from.

This resurfaces an uncertainty I had about the future of Warframe, starting with zaws and kitguns, that modular weapons built just right could shelve regular weapons in the raw damage department. Then there was the new 'brokenframe', which reminds me of a joke I made circa my early days in late 2017/early 2018 when I had 4 frame components that, had they not been each for a different frame, could make a single frame -- I jokingly called this 'Megazord Prime'. Now there's ability infusion -- and I'm not sure where we're going.

[Blexander]

9 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Is shallow the 1st insult you could think of?

Maybe work on that reading comprehension a bit.

I called the system,  not DE, shallow, because it objectively is from what they showcased.

11 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

The system itself could be op or useless.

Why add it in the game if it's going to be either or?