Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

The biggest issue I see with it is that it will probably just be the frames useless ability. I mean volts 1 and mags 1 arent exactly anything special.

[SweetAnubis]

19 minutes ago, Sahiratu said:

In the trailer they considered that frost almost useless ability as a signature skill XD Soooooooooo

what ability is that?

[Sahiratu]

4 minutes ago, SweetAnubis said:

what ability is that?

Skill 2, Ice Wave.

I mean, I can see a Loki using disarm + ice wave, but I doubt it would be really needed or important for any build lol

[brasteir]

Damn, if they're not going to do anything about Ash's nu bladejank I'd want to replace it. 

[Althaline]

I really hope they don't pick Ballistic Battery for Mesa. It's one of the few abilities in the game that is entirely worthless, and they need to give people a reason to farm regular Mesa again, rather than just the Prime.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Just now, Iamabearlulz said:

I really hope they don't pick Ballistic Battery for Mesa. It's one of the few abilities in the game that is entirely worthless, and they need to give people a reason to farm regular Mesa again, rather than just the Prime.

I agree. I’d like to see shooting gallery as her unbound ability.

[Gabbynaru]

29 minutes ago, Aceofgods said:

Mirage: Sleight of Hand. Augment: Explosive Legerdemain.

Not the ability one would want from this bounty of useful tools, but the only one that meets the criteria. May have some use on Corpus missions, but largely underwhelming.

Spoiler

Explosive Legerdemain, the ability that's more stupidly OP than Saryn's spores... is underwhelming?

Seriously, if Sleight of Hand is the one Mirage donates, I'm putting it on all my Warframes, cause this ability is so insanely, stupidly powerful, nothing else will match it. Because of that it's far more likely that it will be Eclipse, or in the best case scenario, Hall of Mirrors. With the proper build, Sleight of Hand is way too OP to be allowed to spread. If you think the complaints about Saryn's spores were many, wait until you see every frame and their mom have Sleight of Hand w/ Explosive Ledgerdemain.

[TacGummyBear]

2 hours ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

I agree with your post. However, I'm not entirely against Modular frames, to me it would've been fine if the Helminth abilities were the only ones we were able to use instead of giving frame abilities to other frames, that's a no-no for me.

Yes, 100% agree. Giving a Warframe's ability to another will create more trouble then anything. Even if DE limit the feature to only work on first ability, giving abilities like Wukong's Celestial Twin, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Wisp's Reservoirs , to other Warframes will cause them to loose their uniqueness and cause certain Warframe to become too over power. And removing majority of the Warframe's first ability like Grendel's Feast, will render them useless or less effective.

And when certain Warframes becomes way too over power, how will DE handle the situation? Ability nerf? Apply restrictions? Overall, I'm not a big fan of this features. A fun idea, but  can be very troublesome and very hard to handle if thing spiral out of control.

 

Edited: Just went back to watch the stream again. Rebecca mentions that each Warframe can only give away 1 ability, that could either mean we can only choose 1 ability to sacrifice or there's only 1 ability on each Warframe that you can sacrifice, means you can't choose what you want to sacrifice. But still, Not a fan of this feature because It still take away a Warframe's uniqueness. 

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, Major_Crash said:

 F that, I am not going to do it.

That's too bad, I guess this feature won't be for you then. 

[SweetAnubis]

19 minutes ago, Sahiratu said:

Skill 2, Ice Wave.

I mean, I can see a Loki using disarm + ice wave, but I doubt it would be really needed or important for any build lol

oh cool then there is still hope for snow globe!

[Ankulas]

I also feel this is a sort of unintended $&*^ move. Having to regrind Equinox, Mesa, Atlas and many others all over again just doesn't make me feel good for the upcoming content, even tho I am excited for questline and Xaku.

Would be great if the player has had the basic frames leveled up and within codex, that they would be accessible or returnable somehow, otherwise I'd rather just play something else once the meaty part of the upcoming content is finished rather than going back to those farms.

 

[(PSN)Paholanani_X]

Im just curious where did you get this list 

[selig_fay]

9 minutes ago, SweetAnubis said:

oh cool then there is still hope for snow globe!

Unlikely. The snow globe is available in reiljeck tactic.

[Althaline]

Just now, (PS4)iheartcampersz said:

Im just curious where did you get this list 

As with much on the forums, it is educated guesses and speculation. Many ability choices are quite obvious to even the casual eye.

[Acersecomic]

1 hour ago, Vesiga said:

You can only do it to the normal frames. Which are "mass produced" from the foundry, so they're NOTHING like Umbra. So it's prolly fine

I'll hold my reservations on that. Remember, any frame that was Stalkered in the Second Dream still broke War on their own.

[--Xenos--Drevix15]

Please do NOT allow Limbo to be fed to the Helminth Chrysalis!!

I'm already seeing chatter on the discord servers that I am apart of how people want to use his Banish & Stasis abilities to troll people or further drive his image into the dirt.

Poor Limbo already has a bad enough rap as it is and has been nerfed already. It would be a shame to see this latest update be a cause to ruin his kit any further.

DE has already stated that the Helminth is a picky eater and that if you feed it certain thing it becomes upset and/or angry.
It could easily be explained that consuming a Limbo Warframe is not to the Helminth Chrysalis' tastes, it would prevent player's from being abused by these abilities, and save Limbo from future nerfs.

- Otherwise I love ALL of the points that you bring up Aceofgods and I think these would be fantastic features to add to the system, ease some of the time-gating, and make it more engaging! 

[Zzz-Somnus-zzZ]

7 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Yeah.... I was thinking about it and I think Cloud Walker is probably the most logical choice. It is incredible movement but it doesn't just give you a 300% damage specter.

Sweet heal and escape for squishy frames

 

Doubt it will be defy because the use of the staff would seem to be limited to Wukong only

[Salenzar]

Hey all,

While I'm generally excited for the Heart of Deimos update, what was absolutely horrifying to me was that they casually announced how you'd be able to sacrifice frames in order to splice their abilities onto other frames. While, of course, that's going to lead to a type of meta forming around that instantly, what perhaps worries me most is how DE does not seem to value individual frame identity at all.

What is frame identity? It's that misty thing that's only visible in the Grendel missions. While on regular missions, you just pick something, everything does the same, which is killing heaps upon heaps of enemies. (Or not a all, depending on the frame). While that may lead people to view frames as just a binary tool that can check either of two boxes, namely; kills a lot of mooks or does not kill a lot of mooks, in the Grendel missions you can clearly see that, beneath it all, there is most definitely an identity tied to the frame's kit. In regular play you won't see a Frost. Not often, at least, but in the Grendel missions you can clearly see that his kit serves a very particular purpose, and that he most definitely excels at what he does.... in situations that are actually demanding. Outside of those missions, where everything dies instantly to a huge arsenal of, what are essentially, orbital nukes, you won't ever find a use for any of that.

I've long felt that the only way to provide any of the following; 
-Any feasible form of "endgame"
-Challenge
-Coordination between players
, there would have to be a specific need or desire to embrace frame idenity, and what each particular frame brings to the table. And again, this is only visible in the Grendel missions, but buried deep in the core of this game, all of the tools required for this game to actually have any of the points I mentioned are already there. 

Subsuming warframes, however, is, to me at least, a clear indication that DE does not think like that, does not value frame identity highly, and is willing to water down each and every frame for players to continue min-maxing into eternity, and once again, without any place to apply the extra boost in strength that we are once again getting from this new feature.
To me it just shows that they have no intention at all of making use of existing frame identities to allow the players to come up with interesting squad compositions to tackle challenges. Just more pew pew everything dies instantly without so much as a thought as to what frame to play or what squad composition. Just raw damage, and we're getting even more of that, despite the fact that our current damage is already insurmountably high.

 

TL;DR
Subsuming warframes further waters down individual frame identity, which is worrying to me, as I see it as an indication that this game will only dumb down even further, requiring less and less tactics and thinking with each and every update.

[dota_Icarus]

(Non rng)Grind in a grind heavy game, I wonder why...

Just don't do it if u don't want to.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

The biggest issue I see with it is that it will probably just be the frames useless ability. I mean volts 1 and mags 1 arent exactly anything special.

They're more useful than Trinity or Valkyr's #1. Or whatever Mesa's #1 is. Mag's #1 is actually pretty good for Mesa. Enemies refusing to get out of cover? Yank them into the air and shoot them like clay pigeons.

[blazinvire]

Yeah I'm with the party against giving Warframes other warframe abilities; this entire mechanic as a whole is concerning on many levels.
At least if it was just Helminth abilities we might get some reassurance of adaptability between warframe themes and kits, but there are a lot of Warframes that have been reworked so that their entire ability set has interconnecting synergies, that replacing even one or moving one of those abilities would be akin to pulling a support from under a house of cards.

I felt like Warframe kits were starting to really get somewhere with Gauss, all his abilities played off one another and really fed his theme flawlessly, it feels all too tightly woven to even think of pulling a single ability to use elsewhere.  Which kind of makes me feel only the 'older' and less 'refined' frames will benefit from this mechanic, so instead of a good ability rework that might put them on par with Gauss's design, they'll just get frankensteined with other more appealing abilities and people will stop complaining as much, which means less pressure on DE to actually rework them, which means they'll never get reworked because it's far more exciting to add mech combat to Warframe or whatever is the latest fascination.

Also means any chance of balance is going to get thrown out the window, since now they'll need to consider the power of warframe abilities not just within the original warframe's kit, but with any other possible warframe they ever make.
Considering it sounds like they're never going to stop making new warframes... yeah.

This system is going to need something significant to stop it spiraling completely out of control or being restrained into uselessness.
If they're bent on sacrificing Warframes, maybe just design a series of Helminth abilities inspired from Warframe abilities that can at least work with Warframe kits, mutate existing abilities instead of outright replacing them.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

the ball doesnt look like grendel.

Then you need to have a very close look at it.

[Drachnyn]

Keep in mind that you will at all times have the majority of the abilities be from the frame you are using as you can only ever replace one of the 4 abilities. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Which is why they specified no Ultimates or signature abilities. So the abilities every frame will give up will be the most generic or basic ability of their kit.

Grendel will likely give his 2 and it won’t require consumed enemies. As it’s just a series of different kinds of buffs.

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

Just so nobody can say this later on that nobody said it, but if we could double-infuse into one frame, Ember+Frost into Octavia so she can Blast a song of Fire and Ice.

(Yes, that's a joke.)