digital extremes accidentally retconed the warframes building sistem with helminth

[Kaotyke]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

retcon means new information that changes already stablished content/information 

But it doesnt change anything in this instance. It just gives extra information.

Warframes are known to be Infested. Which was pretty much shouted out in War Within.

Warframes were made innitally with Helminth Strain. Said by Ballas in Sacrifice.

Now Helminth absorbs the Warframes it made back into itself and selects which ability it can give to things that it gave "birth" to.

33 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

it changes because the helminth exist any changes of helminth lore by proxy change the warframe lore now

But there were only 2 things know about Helminth:

It helped keep the biological freatures of the Orbiter functioning. Said by Ordis.

it was the strain used to make Warframes.

You are doing the same as someone who knows your freezer cools the food within, and now are being taught the extra freatures, like "adjust temperature", "this has WiFi" and making it as if it changed things instead of expanding.

 

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

retcon means new information that changes already stablished content/information 

Only in cases where it outright contradicts what was previously established. New details or new in-universe developments are not retcons.

The new lore additions are only retcons if you assume that we had the full picture before they came along.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)xBlake360 said:

Again, there is a difference between a retcon and finding new information that doesn't change established facts. I think you missed a lot of Warframe lore, since it was said multiple times that Orokin are freaking liars, so it makes sense they tricked others to think they're perfect (and symmetrical). How is Ballas alive a retcon if it was never said that he was dead? How Lotus was a lie is a retcon, if we never knew the whole process of how Natah became the Lotus? Like I said, there is a difference between a retcon (introducing a new information that changes established facts) and finding about a completely new information that just extends the lore.

yeah you have a serious double standards as those informations don't extends the fact just twists then you know one type of retcon that exist twisting facts so you can fit your new continuity 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

25 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Only in cases where it outright contradicts what was previously established. New details or new in-universe developments are not retcons.

The new lore additions are only retcons if you assume that we had the full picture before they came along.

you truly don't understand retcons they changed already happened by adding new information they don't need contradiction to exist they just need to retroactive change the events on continuety to be a retcon one great exemple of a retcon darth vader being lukes father thats a retcon it didn'tneed to be vader being or not don't contradicted the story at the moment and wasent nessessary

[Rakosta_Kai]

7 hours ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

retcon

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

A retcon is a revision of the existing narrative retrospectively—None of the things you mention either existed or had a clear explanation before the one they gave in the game.

By your logic, anything that gets added after the launch of the game counts as a retcon.

That doesn't mean there aren't blatant retcons in the narrative...

For example:

• Helminth's door didn't always exist, Neither did the door to our personal quarters.
• The Landing Craft actually being the Orbiter.
• The content associated with the last significant update to NPE.
• Cetus
• Fortuna

All of these are blatant retcons...They simply didn't exist before and then they suddenly do and we are supposed to act like they never didn't exist.

Now that said, each was designed to provide additional narrative and plot where none existed to begin with.

The things you are calling retcons are typically known as story development/evolution.

Your complaints about Retcons amount to you complaining about the fact that the story is moving. 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

If your talking about the orokin era lore, helmith doest change the history. Helmith can be considered a present era tech.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

A retcon is a revision of the existing narrative retrospectively—None of the things you mention either existed or had a clear explanation before the one they gave in the game.

By your logic, anything that gets added after the launch of the game counts as a retcon.

That doesn't mean there aren't blatant retcons in the narrative...

For example:

• Helminth's door didn't always exist, Neither did the door to our personal quarters.
• The Landing Craft actually being the Orbiter.
• The content associated with the last significant update to NPE.
• Cetus
• Fortuna

All of these are blatant retcons...They simply didn't exist before and then they suddenly do and we are supposed to act like they never didn't exist.

Now that said, each was designed to provide additional narrative and plot where none existed to begin with.

The things you are calling retcons are typically known as story development/evolution.

Your complaints about Retcons amount to you complaining about the fact that the story is moving. 

no by the contrary i know exactly what is a retcon and what you present is directed revision the living quarters is a retconas the room itself was stated to be other thing but now is living roon one other retcon is the warframes being part of the infestation that was a retcon that was added to give the player a interest on the infestation 

 

 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

If your talking about the orokin era lore, helmith doest change the history. Helmith can be considered a present era tech.

helminth was retconed to be present since the start its one of ballas quotes during vetruvian helminth is the hybrid that is used to create the warframes 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

no by the contrary i know exactly what is a retcon

With no offense intended, your examples are not evidence of this.

For example:

2 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

one other retcon is the warframes being part of the infestation that was a retcon that was added to give the player a interest on the infestation 

...Is incorrect.

We've always known that Warframe's were immune to the infestation.

Explaining that this is because Warframes were built from a separate strain of the infestation isn't a retcon...It's story development.

[Circle_of_Psi]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

With no offense intended, your examples are not evidence of this.

This ^, I had to explain this to "yet another" player who thinks this type of mindset and clearly examples been shown, they DO NOT. As you said. However for the OP itself. Enjoy this that I had to carefully put into easy to understand Lore.

 

The Normal Warframes (non-primed) that we have are nothing more then mass-produced versions of the Primes themselves, The non-Prime Weapons and Warframes the Tenno use are based on the Orokin's designs but are not actual pieces of Orokin technology itself, it is a Replica, an Prosthesis and "fan-made" Warframe. 

The original Warframes themselves where always Prime, an Prime Warframe was the very first to be created by Executor Ballas after experimenting the Infestation on human hosts. More specifically, the Helminth strain was developed to be injected into the strongest bodies the Orokin could find, volunteers or not, including Dax soldiers, that resulted in both Umbra and Primed Warframes. 

However, the first Warframes were failures, going berserk and controllable as the Infestation corrupted their hosts' minds. The Orokin attempted to destroy the hosts' minds and to tame the Warframes but it did not work, so they had to find a new means of taming the Warframes, as a result to that the Warframe Project was put on hold until Transference Technology developed (AKA: The Lolis in our ship, the "Child Soldiers"). However it was stated that "Umbra" Warframes or Primes where alive, each had a memory, they where alive and the "Tenno" where able to "see inside an ugly, broken thing and take away its pain". Umbra (more then likely) was either the actual first Warframe or one of the set frames. Excal Prime then Umbra, then the other Primes.

Through Transference, the Zariman children, now known as Tenno, were able to operate the Warframes and channel their Void powers through them. (This means out-right control them, not just be their guided light, we fully took complete control and taking away it's pain is pretty much deleting the memory from the frame, as that is the only true way you can remove pain) Kinda morbid, but that's Tenno for you.

Any "Warframe" that was shown in any type of "Lore" or this special "Leverian" you speak about, is still nothing to do with the Original Frames, just cuz the fact we do not see the "Prime" version on a high horse doesn't mean that the original was used, Drusus Leverian has required Replica Versions to tell the tale of the Frame itself, including his gear and such, as it is said: The Tenno have tried to imitate the success of Orokin technology in the form of the non-Prime items, resulting in slightly weaker variations (AKA: The Original Frames).

The Tenno were once capable of creating Primes of their own, examples being the Boar, Dakra, and the Kamas, however, such knowledge is now lost. With the rediscovery of the Void, many Prime items are being reclaimed by the Tenno and/or reverse-engineered by the Corpus and the Grineer, the strength of their craftsmanship being realized once more.

So keep in mind that all the "Lore" is WAY before the Sentient War and during the War and before the Orokin's Downfall.

Please tell me you aleast understand this. If not then feel free to bealive what you think is real and let everyone (who clearly has been pinpoint it out to you) think what they think. Cuz clearly this topic is going no where. 

[Corvid]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

one other retcon is the warframes being part of the infestation that was a retcon that was added to give the player a interest on the infestation

Considering that one of the first things we knew about the warframes was that that the Infested bosses considered us to be like them, you really have a strange definition of retcon.

Seriously, you're claiming that information we've had since before even the Excalibur Codex entry (generally regarded as the first real in-game lore) is somehow a retcon.

 

28 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

• Helminth's door didn't always exist, Neither did the door to our personal quarters.
• The Landing Craft actually being the Orbiter.
• The content associated with the last significant update to NPE.
• Cetus
• Fortuna

Of these, I'd only say the first 3 are actual retcons (And I'm a bit iffy on whether 2 and 3 count). Unless you wish to argue that the Void Towers, Derelicts, Kuva Fortress and other such locations are retcons. Hell, even the regular Earth tileset is technically a retcon by that standard, as Earth was originally listed as being an irradiated wasteland incapable of supporting life.

There's a difference between retcons, and new locations becoming open to players as development progresses.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

With no offense intended, your examples are not evidence of this.

For example:

...Is incorrect.

We've always known that Warframe's were immune to the infestation.

Explaining that this is because Warframes were built from a separate strain of the infestation isn't a retcon...It's story development.

nope im still right as they originally said because they're imune because of natural imunit  but unce the chroma quest showed crhoma as infested controlled and then they added update by update dialog retroactivelysaying that they're infeted retcon is information that changes stableshed facts iven if they are vague 

 

 

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

A retcon would be something like kingdom hearts. All this is adding new information to what we already knew about how the frames were made.

Seriously, this whole topic feels like it was made by the same ppl that claimed 5g caused the rona. Take off yer tinfoil hat and let yer brain breathe a lil

[(PSN)yokai1235]

15 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

This ^, I had to explain this to "yet another" player who thinks this type of mindset and clearly examples been shown, they DO NOT. As you said. However for the OP itself. Enjoy this that I had to carefully put into easy to understand Lore.

 

The Normal Warframes (non-primed) that we have are nothing more then mass-produced versions of the Primes themselves, The non-Prime Weapons and Warframes the Tenno use are based on the Orokin's designs but are not actual pieces of Orokin technology itself, it is a Replica, an Prosthesis and "fan-made" Warframe. 

The original Warframes themselves where always Prime, an Prime Warframe was the very first to be created by Executor Ballas after experimenting the Infestation on human hosts. More specifically, the Helminth strain was developed to be injected into the strongest bodies the Orokin could find, volunteers or not, including Dax soldiers, that resulted in both Umbra and Primed Warframes. 

However, the first Warframes were failures, going berserk and controllable as the Infestation corrupted their hosts' minds. The Orokin attempted to destroy the hosts' minds and to tame the Warframes but it did not work, so they had to find a new means of taming the Warframes, as a result to that the Warframe Project was put on hold until Transference Technology developed (AKA: The Lolis in our ship, the "Child Soldiers"). However it was stated that "Umbra" Warframes or Primes where alive, each had a memory, they where alive and the "Tenno" where able to "see inside an ugly, broken thing and take away its pain". Umbra (more then likely) was either the actual first Warframe or one of the set frames. Excal Prime then Umbra, then the other Primes.

Through Transference, the Zariman children, now known as Tenno, were able to operate the Warframes and channel their Void powers through them. (This means out-right control them, not just be their guided light, we fully took complete control and taking away it's pain is pretty much deleting the memory from the frame, as that is the only true way you can remove pain) Kinda morbid, but that's Tenno for you.

Any "Warframe" that was shown in any type of "Lore" or this special "Leverian" you speak about, is still nothing to do with the Original Frames, just cuz the fact we do not see the "Prime" version on a high horse doesn't mean that the original was used, Drusus Leverian has required Replica Versions to tell the tale of the Frame itself, including his gear and such, as it is said: The Tenno have tried to imitate the success of Orokin technology in the form of the non-Prime items, resulting in slightly weaker variations (AKA: The Original Frames).

The Tenno were once capable of creating Primes of their own, examples being the Boar, Dakra, and the Kamas, however, such knowledge is now lost. With the rediscovery of the Void, many Prime items are being reclaimed by the Tenno and/or reverse-engineered by the Corpus and the Grineer, the strength of their craftsmanship being realized once more.

So keep in mind that all the "Lore" is WAY before the Sentient War and during the War and before the Orokin's Downfall.

Please tell me you aleast understand this. If not then feel free to bealive what you think is real and let everyone (who clearly has been pinpoint it out to you) think what they think. Cuz clearly this topic is going no where. 

so re is the retcon 

the regular warframes are now both the mass produced and the roginal one the primes are the opgraded version not me saing this came directed from Rebecca's mouth

the tenno being a child remoting controlling the warframe the lore before returning was you were wearing a sut them retconed to be a meta narrative of the player controling a proxy like the matrix then they changed to nearly  what is now but them retconed so the operator could walk around also giving you a new retconed lore on the events of the zariman 10 0 by saying that every thing that the tenno rembered on secon dream was a lie quoting teshin "a lie of omitition"

tranference was also retconed from a matrix/connection to a remoted controlled proxy to possession power to a type of psychic symbiosis 

but the rest still not changed for now 

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

nope im still right as they originally said because they're imune because of natural imunit  but unce the chroma quest showed crhoma as infested controlled and then they added update by update dialog retroactivelysaying that they're infeted retcon is information that changes stableshed facts iven if they are vague 

 

 

"infested controlled"

Dude, I think you need to revisit the mission. The infested one was Mesa, and wasn't infested at all, just controlled by Mutalic Alad V. Chroma was just rogue, controlled by that possibly sentient relic. Warframes cannot be infested because they are already infested, that's old news (even lephantis, lordas golem and phorid talk's about it "we are your flesh" is a common line). 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

retcon

[(PSN)yokai1235]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)NeunDrachen said:

A retcon would be something like kingdom hearts. All this is adding new information to what we already knew about how the frames were made.

Seriously, this whole topic feels like it was made by the same ppl that claimed 5g caused the rona. Take off yer tinfoil hat and let yer brain breathe a lil

but kindom hearts is wose them retcons they used everything from soft reboot to false narrator to retcon director revisionism and the only one that is using a tifoil hat here is you for comparing retcons with a narrative disaster that is kindom hearts next you're going to say that every one is a yatzy for saying that you shouldn't put politics on a forum about video games 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

6 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

"infested controlled"

Dude, I think you need to revisit the mission. The infested one was Mesa, and wasn't infested at all, just controlled by Mutalic Alad V. Chroma was just rogue, controlled by that possibly sentient relic. Warframes cannot be infested because they are already infested, that's old news (even lephantis, lordas golem and phorid talk's about it "we are your flesh" is a common line). 

read chroma codex on enemies hes is they're on the infested cartegory the enemies warframes are normally on orokin or stalker

[Firedtm]

11 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Feeding frames to Helmith to modify powers on other frames is new...but not without some precedent.  Everyone has had to go to the chair to inoculate at some point or other from the cyst because Helminth is essentially another form of the infestation... Feeding it frames teaches it their powers.

 

Give them a few years and 4 sets of the same warframe, I bet we will be able to use all 4 abilities...

yea, this is a sarcastic joking response to that post.

[ReaverKane]

11 hours ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

but still will ended up retconing on how warframes are made

Not really... Warframes are supposed to be made from infested tissue. Helminth is the thing that creates that tissue. Now it evolved to be able to change it slightly to tweak it to our needs.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

i understand retcons as is narrative tool its make to retroactive change what is already stableshed by either twisting it or add new information that changes the readers perseption of the fact a well made retcon will pass unnoteced a porly made one will show comtradictios and will easily be notice or ivenneed another retcon to fix it or iven a soft reboot like terminator

[Rakosta_Kai]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

nope im still right as they originally said because they're imune because of natural imunit  but unce the chroma quest showed crhoma as infested controlled and then they added update by update dialog retroactivelysaying that they're infeted retcon is information that changes stableshed facts iven if they are vague 

You just highlighted my point...

How can it "change established facts" if the "facts given were vague"?

How can a fact be both "established" and "vague" at the same time?

It can't...

Established fact: Warframe are immune to the Infestation.

Vague: How Warframe's became immune to the Infestation.

What you call a retcon merely established "How" they managed to be immune to it...That's not a retcon.

 

Likewise, the assertion that Chroma was infested controlled is simply incorrect...If anything, Chroma's story represents a storyline that has either been dropped or left unattended since it doesn't say who was controlling it.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

You just highlighted my point...

How can it "change established facts" if the "facts given were vague"?

How can a fact be both "established" and "vague" at the same time?

It can't...

Established fact: Warframe are immune to the Infestation.

Vague: How Warframe's became immune to the Infestation.

What you call a retcon merely established "How" they managed to be immune to it...That's not a retcon.

 

Likewise, the assertion that Chroma was infested controlled is simply incorrect...If anything, Chroma's story represents a storyline that has either been dropped or left unattended since it doesn't say who was controlling it.

you don't now what a retcon is it doesn't mean that is aways a bad they're information that changes the fact change also means expanding it not just revisioning it

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Everything in the universe is made of the same material all present in the periodic table of elements. 

Through various processes they can be interchangeable and amalgamated.

Warframes are Biomechanical. Not just mechanical or robotic, although it'd actually be easier to interchange if they were.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

you don't now what a retcon is it doesn't mean that is aways a bad they're information that changes the fact change also means expanding it not just revisioning it

Could you repeat that in a sentence that makes sense?